Well, that answers that question

[GSFB]

Moderators, please merge this if it is already another thread - but I didn't see anything else about it just now, so I am posting.

Well, now we know for certain that Sabine is a Succubus. And, just to make things more confusing, working for Lee, who, by alignment, would be a devil and not a demon. Therefore, the whole "get them all together" part of the IFCC is already working...

[[TS] Shadow]

Moderators, please merge this if it is already another thread - but I didn't see anything else about it just now, so I am posting.

Well, now we know for certain that Sabine is a Succubus. And, just to make things more confusing, working for Lee, who, by alignment, would be a devil and not a demon. Therefore, the whole "get them all together" part of the IFCC is already working...

Are you saying that Sabine's a devil because he works for Lee? If you are, just because she works for a devil doesn't mean she IS a devil. If you aren't, sorry.

[Sabin Marcus]

Shadow;5886281']Are you saying that Sabine's a devil because he works for Lee? If you are, just because she works for a devil doesn't mean she IS a devil. If you aren't, sorry.

Actually, GSFB is clearly stating that Sabine is a succubus (and presumably, by extension, a Chaotic Evil demon). It's just unusual (and well within the stated goals of the IFCC) that she's working direclty for Lee, who's Lawful Evil (and therefore a devil).

[Sgeo]

Why are we assuming that Lee is Lawful Evil? The name? What about the fact that he is the one who provided what appears to be a very Chaotic Evil soul?

[Silverraptor]

Sorry, I lost track over which fiend is which. Can someone post which color is which fiend?

[Mando Knight]

Sorry, I lost track over which fiend is which. Can someone post which color is which fiend?

Other than Lee being the Yellow Fiend, we're not quite sure.

[[TS] Shadow]

Why are we assuming that Lee is Lawful Evil? The name? What about the fact that he is the one who provided what appears to be a very Chaotic Evil soul?

There's also his demeanor, which has been much more serious than the others.

[Theodoriph]

We already knew she was a succubus.

[Olo Demonsbane]

We already knew she was a succubus.

Since when?

[Teron]

We knew she's very much like a succubus, but definitely not a normal, by-the-book one.

Apparently, succubi have arbitrarily been made devils in Fourth Edition, so her subordination to Lee could be a nod to that fact, a consequence of the IFCC's nature, or both, allowing readers to choose the explanation they prefer. I can't help but notice that Mr. Burlew hasn't done much in terms of integrating 4E elements despite his statement some time ago, a state of affairs I'm probably not the only one to appreciate.

[Balgus]

Since when?
Don't know if it was KNOWN - but I assumed so since she first appeared. Who else would love sex and backstabbery as much as she. (ie-when Nale tried to nail her, and then kill her)

Devils would be more worried about her soul than Nale killing her.

[The Glyphstone]

We knew she's very much like a succubus, but definitely not a normal, by-the-book one.

Apparently, succubi have arbitrarily been made devils in Fourth Edition, so her subordination to Lee could be a nod to that fact, a consequence of the IFCC's nature, or both, allowing readers to choose the explanation they prefer. I can't help but notice that Mr. Burlew hasn't done much in terms of integrating 4E elements despite his statement some time ago, a state of affairs I'm probably not the only one to appreciate.

His statement? Didn't he say that he WASN'T going to 'convert' OotS into 4th Ed rules?:smallconfused:

[Teron]

In short, yes, but he also said the following:


However, this does NOT mean that I will stop making jokes about the fact that the characters exist within a world that operates like a roleplaying game. Nor will I limit myself to either jokes about 3.5 Edition or 4th Edition. I’ll go where the humor takes me, and if that happens to create gross inconsistencies, then so be it. As an added benefit, I expect it will drive the fans who try to figure out exactly what is occurring in each strip from a strict D&D rules perspective absolutely nuts. If it really bothers anyone, simply imagine that the OOTS world follows someone’s homebrewed hybridization of 3.5 and 4th Editions, using bits and pieces from whichever ruleset they think works better.

You can look up the whole news item easily enough if you want.

[FujinAkari]

Since when?

Since War & XP's where Rich explicitly discusses why she is as aggressive as she is, despite being a Succubus which tends to avoid combat.

[Dracoma]

Why are we assuming that Lee is Lawful Evil? The name? What about the fact that he is the one who provided what appears to be a very Chaotic Evil soul?

Just my quick noticing, but:
LEe
NEro
CEdrik

So if the naming schema is any indication, I would assume Lee to be the Lawful Evil one.

[Number 6]

Just my quick noticing, but:
LEe
NEro
CEdrik

So if the naming schema is any indication, I would assume Lee to be the Lawful Evil one.

I noticed the same thing. I think you're right.

BTW, I said in a different thread that the devils and demons had been watching V (and the whole OOTS) ever since Sabine reported about the Snarl. That's why they had a pre-approved deal ready for her. People scoffed, but I was 100% right! Let the obnoxious gloating begin! Nyaah nyaah!

[hamishspence]

Sabine as a minion of Lee is very very circumstantial- she might be lawful, or, the IFCC may be very relaxed about who supervised who.

the apparently very CE sorcerer soul, while circumstantial, seems a little bit more direct-

while the three could have mixed up the souls, so the Devil in the group contributes a soul from the Abyss (or the Devil character has tempted a CE soul with a pact, but it retains most of its CE personality), its a bit of a stretch.

Souls match fiend alignments, seems slightly more plausible (though, other way is possible, its just I think its more likely)

Which would make Lee CE. Would be a good subversion- to have names tell us there are 3 different types of fiend, but be misleading as to which is which.

[Volkov]

We also know that the Yellow fiend is most definitely Lee. We also know that the ABD has so much hit points that the disintegrate spell didn't leave any Damage marks that Rich puts on badly injured characters.

[factotum]

Just my quick noticing, but:
LEe
NEro
CEdrik

So if the naming schema is any indication, I would assume Lee to be the Lawful Evil one.

That's what everyone else assumes too, but in that case, why does Lee have control of the sorcerer's soul, who is clearly Chaotic?

[Zevox]

We also know that the ABD has so much hit points that the disintegrate spell didn't leave any Damage marks that Rich puts on badly injured characters.
We kinda knew that just by knowing she's an Ancient Black Dragon. Even without sorcerer levels (which she seems to have given her ability to cast 6th and 7th level spells), she'd have 387 hp, way more than even a maximized disintegrate could take out (that would do 240 damage on a failed save), and she's not likely to fail a save against it anyway (+23 fortitude save even without sorcerer levels). And Disintegrate doesn't do much at all on a successful save.

Zevox

[Borris]

His statement? Didn't he say that he WASN'T going to 'convert' OotS into 4th Ed rules?:smallconfused:
He said he wouldn't do a conversion strip, like he did for the 3.0-3.5 shift in comic #1. But the Giant specificaly stated that he would make fun of 4th edition rules. Showing the change in the strip would require lots of explanation to point out how the members of the OotS (among others) are affected by teh change of edition, which doesn't work well now that the strip is a lot more story-oriented. If something in the story can be explained better in 4th edition terms than 3.5, why not use that. And to quote the Giant: "If that happens to create gross inconsistencies, then so be it." As for whether a succubus working under a LE archdevil is a nod to 4th edition changes or not, we can just wait and see.

[Majorman]

Damn, someone has beaten me on this. Still, I have to ask, with which arrow did Haley manage to hit her all the way back during their first battle- the golden or the silver one?

Also, didn't the succubi have a pretty nast kiss? How's that Nale's still alive?

[GSFB]

why does Lee have control of the sorcerer's soul, who is clearly Chaotic?

First, we don't know that Lee has control, only that Lee "introduced" this soul. It is not uncommon for people to introduce their counterparts rather than their cohorts. For instance, look at the Academy Awards, where former "best actors" often announce winners for "best actress."

Second, mixing up the alignment roles fits in with the declared purpose of the IFCC.

[chiasaur11]

I noticed the same thing. I think you're right.

BTW, I said in a different thread that the devils and demons had been watching V (and the whole OOTS) ever since Sabine reported about the Snarl. That's why they had a pre-approved deal ready for her. People scoffed, but I was 100% right! Let the obnoxious gloating begin! Nyaah nyaah!

I always wanted you to be our leader sir.

[The_Void]

Damn, someone has beaten me on this. Still, I have to ask, with which arrow did Haley manage to hit her all the way back during their first battle- the golden or the silver one?


Haley hit her with both arrows, so she still didn't know which one hurt her.

[David Argall]

I said in a different thread that the devils and demons had been watching V (and the whole OOTS) ever since Sabine reported about the Snarl. That's why they had a pre-approved deal ready for her. People scoffed, but I was 100% right! Let the obnoxious gloating begin! Nyaah nyaah!
That has pretty much been the majority opinion since the three appeared on the island. So you don't get to do too much obnoxious gloating. The rest of us also get cuts of the pie.

[Number 6]

That has pretty much been the majority opinion since the three appeared on the island. So you don't get to do too much obnoxious gloating. The rest of us also get cuts of the pie.

Yeah, I figured that a lot of other people had figured it out. It's kind of obvious. I was mostly trying to be humorous. But you would be surprised how many posts there were telling me how A) totally wrong and B) stunningly stupid I was for suggesting such an idiotic thing. (Exagerated for affect.) Most OOTS forums posters are nice, but there are an uncomfortable number of dickweeds....

[[TS] Shadow]

I noticed the same thing. I think you're right.

BTW, I said in a different thread that the devils and demons had been watching V (and the whole OOTS) ever since Sabine reported about the Snarl. That's why they had a pre-approved deal ready for her. People scoffed, but I was 100% right! Let the obnoxious gloating begin! Nyaah nyaah!

Yeah...you don't get to gloat, as stated above. You only get to smirk, now.

Anyway, what I'm wondering is if Sabine told the IFCC about all of the Order members, or just V. I find it highly unlikely that she only informed them of 1 high level indivdual when there are 5 others that are perfectly good for damnation. They probably could get Belkar rather easily, due to his already evil alignment.

[Optimystik]

The one thing we know for sure is that Lee is clearly the yellow fiend.

Given the arguments for him being lawful (the naming convention) and the arguments against (A succubus reports to him, and he controls a clearly chaotic soul), we have three possibilities:

1) Rich shuffled the names on purpose to make things less obvious.
2) The naming convention holds, and Lee is in charge of chaotics despite being a devil;
3) The sorcerer is actually lawful and Sabine is a homebrew/4e succubus with lawful alignment.

I find (3) to be the least likely, of course. (1) is possible (and quite devious on Rich's part), but my theory is that the answer is (2). Consider the goal of the IFCC: Inter-Fiend cooperation. What better way to do that than to get the respective archfiends out of their comfort zones, and put them in charge of fiends without matching alignments?

I'm reminded of management training programs where middle-managers are shuffled around to broaden their experiences and skill-set; this may be what we are seeing here. The example is especially fitting since hell is ALL middle-management (an 8-bit Theater quote, but one that rings of truth nonetheless :smallbiggrin:)

Summary: Lee is indeed LE, but he is in charge of chaotic subordinates and souls as part of the IFCC's mission.


His statement? Didn't he say that he WASN'T going to 'convert' OotS into 4th Ed rules?:smallconfused:

There are 4E jokes in the strip, so we can't discount it completely. Durkon mentions Elan's "class power source" here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0558.html), and we have Kubota reading 4E material (looking for upgrades?) here. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0562.html)


I always wanted you to be our leader sir.

I never liked him anyway.

[GreenyDread]

The fact, that Sabine is working for Lee may also be connected to Nale, who is LE. He may have signed a pact with Lee for the "services" of a female fiend, who gave him a devil. Maybe just another experiment, if IFCC's concept is working out, maybe Nale didn't want a erinys.


(prove me wrong, if there's something in the books.)

[ref]

let me say: please PLEASE let the IFCC become a standard nemesis group, rather than a one-off!

[Silverraptor]

let me say: please PLEASE let the IFCC become a standard nemesis group, rather than a one-off!

Oh undoubtably. We'll see them again.