Factotum -> Chameleon Query

[Kobold-Bard]

I hav just been looking at the Chameleon Prestige Class (Races of Destiny) and the Factotum (Dungeonscape).

In the Factotum entry it mentions that Chameleon is a great class for it to follow into.
But Chameleon needs Able Learner to qualify for it. But seeing as how Factotums get all skills as class skills, isn't this just a wasted feat?

Let me know if I've missed something, and if anyone has an opinion on whether the Chameleon is a good choice, feel free to voice it.

Thanks in advance.

[Shades of Gray]

Tis a wasted feat. But the bonus floating feat more than makes up for it. Rather than having a regular feat, you can change it every day.

[Khatoblepas]

It isn't really a wasted feat - you still have to buy cross-class ranks at 2 skill points each without it.

With it, you have all skills as class skills, at a cost of 1 point per skill rank, effectively, regardless of which class you go into.

[Kobold-Bard]

But as I said, Factotums get all skills as class skills anyway, so its a dead feat.

You have a fair point Shades. Thanks.

Out of curiosity, would any of the DM's out there allow your players to take Able Learner at lvl 1, then once I have taken their first level of Chameleon, retrain it using the rules in PHB2?

[Shades of Gray]

I doubt it. It's a prerequisite of the PrC. Same way I asked my DM "If I'm a doppelganger, why do I need those 8 ranks in disguise? I can do that fine already".

[Fishy]

Lose the prerequisite, lose the PrC. Sort of. Maybe.

Able Learner, one more time.

"Class Skill" means two things.
1) If the skill is a class skill for -one- of your classes, you can have 3+CL ranks in it. If not, you only get half that amount.
2) If the skill is a class skill for your -current- class, you can buy skill ranks in it for one skill point each. If not, it costs two.

Factotum fixes 1. You can have 3+CL ranks in any skill ever.

Able Learner fixes 2. You can buy a rank in any skill for exactly one point.

By themselves, neither fixes both.

Got it?

[Kobold-Bard]

Fair enough. Thanks all.

[Eldariel]

Wasted feat? Have you seen Chameleon's skill list? They get 4+Int skillpoints, but the list has literally nothing. With Able Learner, you add everything to Chameleon's skill list. Sure, Factotum-levels gain no benefit of Able Learner, but frankly, nobody takes Able Learner for the cheaper purchasing of cross-class skills (as you're still capped at ½ max level) - the reason for the feat to exist is to keep skills of one class as "class skills" (if you ever have a skill in class, you determine max ranks as if it were a class skill, and with Able Learner you buy ranks in it as if it were a class skill thus allowing you to use it precisely as a class skill) when multiclassing.

[Person_Man]

I disagree with the premise.

Factotum is an amazing class. Chameleon (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20041210b&page=1) is a solid PrC. But there is no natural synergy between the two. If you go Factotum 5/Chameleon X, you're giving up Cunning Surge, which is the Factotum's best class ability (except for Cunning Brilliance at ECL 19, which you also forgo if you're taking levels of Chameleon). If you go Factotum 8/Chameleon X, then your Chameleon spells will be forever nerfed compared to its ECL. Either way, you're left with a limited pool of Inspiration Points and limited spells.

[Eldariel]

The classic build is Factotum 8/Chameleon 10/Factotum +2 (or whatever). The trick is to combine Cunning Surge with the 10-level casting advancement of Chameleon to reach a relevant amount of spellcasting combined with the extra actions.

The basic idea comes down to the awareness that Cunning Surge is an amazing ability, but Factotum-class itself lacks the means to properly utilize it (due to the lack of fast advancement spellcasting), so adding a class that grants you swiftly advancing spellcasting is a great way to go about utilizing it. Of course, Ur-Priest is better, but Ur-Priest is also Ur-Priest.

[Chronos]

If you go Factotum 5/Chameleon X, you're giving up Cunning Surge, which is the Factotum's best class ability (except for Cunning Brilliance at ECL 19, which you also forgo if you're taking levels of Chameleon).No, that's the factotum's most powerful ability. "Most powerful" is not synonymous with "best", and in this case, I would in fact argue that it's the class's worst ability. It's too powerful, it doesn't fit the general theme of the class, and it distorts builds to fit in exactly 8 levels of Factotum for no reason other than the Cunning Surge ability.