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View Full Version : Urgent Help! Pvp Tourny! Must Prove My Worth!



Charbau927
2009-03-19, 08:12 PM
PLEASE HELP ME!

We do these PVP tournys whenever we dont have the whole group to continue our campaign, and whether it be teams or single, i am always the first one out or last one picked. I'm great in campaigns, but for some reason i cannot prove my worth in PVP style fights! I turn to you now forums. I believe this next tourny is going to be first level as it is someone elses turn to pick the format, and he has been bragging about a first level tourny and a great idea for a month now. Please help me. Here are the rules
-3.5
-1rst Level
-Any book, but book of nine swords
-32 point buy
-max health
-3v3 or 4v4 or FFA or singles tourny- not decided yet

I don't personally like to exploit rules, and would like to win at least one match as fairly as possible. Any help is greatly appreciated! THANX!:smallsmile:

Eldariel
2009-03-19, 08:35 PM
Any preparing time (actions to cast buffs before combat)? If so, go Wizard probably with Precocious Apprentice: Alter Self or Levitate. Proper race varies: Gray Elf, Neraphim, Strongheart Halfling, Lesser Tiefling and Human all have their sides.

Without any prep time, casters become significantly worse. That said, a level 1 Wizard still has likely the highest chance of 1-hit KO round 1, though Cleric or Druid may be safer; thanks to War-trained Riding Dog, the Druid is fully capable melee combatant too.


Oh, and Bear-totem Barbarian with Whirling Frenzy is fairly strong; go Warforged and enjoy 17+ HP + immunity to Sleep (among others) allowing you to mostly dump Will-save. Adamantine Body would make that AC ~21, which is actually fairly solid level 1, and you'd have Damage Reduction to boot.

Finally, a stealth-build (most likely a Whisper Gnome Rogue, although Strongheart Halfling does have something going for it too) could work rather decently as people don't really have magical means of detection on level 1 (unless you have magic gear, which you won't). Too bad the feats that enhance sniping aren't available until later; you're still the dog against everything but untrained Spot while sniping.


But yeah, if there's prep time, go caster and if not...going caster is still a fine choice. Level 1 combat is as much about making the most of the basic items as it is about classes; Tower Shield granting total cover is so huge, for example, and you don't need proficiency for that benefit.

JeminiZero
2009-03-19, 08:43 PM
Lets not forget warlocks. A level 1 warlock with baleful utterance can quickly render the opposing team completely ineffectual because at that level no items are magic yet.

Charbau927
2009-03-19, 09:00 PM
Hey thanks guys... just a couple questions

1. Does the Adamantine Warforged build require anything? All i know is that it adds +8 to AC, Max Dex +1, ACP of -5, 35% arcane spellfailure.

2. What book can i find precocious apprentice?

THANKS so much for the speedy reply! any more suggestions would be greatly appreciated! I only have till tomorrow night!

Eldariel
2009-03-19, 09:19 PM
1. No, not really. The big drawback is the 20' movement speed ('cause of the whole Heavy Armor-thing), but that's generally something you can work around. If consumables are allowed, buying Potion of Expeditious Retreat fixes it nicely, for example.

2. Precocious Apprentice is on page 181 in Complete Arcana; a training-feat that allows casting a level 2 spell. If you're confident in your ability to win the initiative (you do have Nerveskitter, after all), Scorching Ray could be a fine choice especially with all manners of buffing to make it high CL.

Talic
2009-03-20, 12:53 AM
If Flaws are allowed:

Dim Mak Mage:
Level 1 Azurin (Magic of Incarnum) Wizard:
Focused Specialist (Complete Mage) Variant - Evocation

Fell Drain (Libris Mortis)
Midnight Metamagic (Magic of Incarnum)
Improved Essentia Capacity (Magic of Incarnum) - Via Flaw (Unearthed Arcana)

One time per day, you can, as a swift action, apply the fell drain spell to any level 1 spell you can cast for free.

What does this mean?

You can deal 2-5 damage and a negative level to anyone within 110 feet (Magic Missile). If negative levels = character levels, you die.

So you are now an "I win" button against any one member of the opposing team. Throw that Midnight metamagic in as a swift action, and ready an action to cast whenever you see a foe. Bam, one man down.

Then, stay at range, and use magic missile, and use your allies as shields, when possible to maximize your lifespan.

After that, if your teammates can't bring down 1 on their lonesome, something's wrong. Remember, on a worst case scenario, you're gonna kill one of em. And you'll soak up an attack from another. Sometimes that's all you need, as well. Kill one, distract another. But work as a team, and wow them with your death ray.

Cause that's what it is. No attack roll. No save. Just death.

If you can take a 2nd flaw, then there's a feat in Complete Arcane (I think, maybe complete mage) that allows you to reduce the cost of metamagic by one level, three times per day (Metamagic School Focus). In that case, also learn Sonic Snap (Spell Compendium), which can deal 1 damage, no save, no attack roll. Apply Fell drain to that, 2 times, and get one long range deathray (High beams), and 2 short range (low beams). (if a 4v4 tourney, you can memorize 3 of that fell drain, but that's overkill. Let your friends have fun, memorize Enlarge person for the melee buddy).

Note: With immediate cast variant, it's possible to ready an action to sonic snap someone when they get within 25 feet, and then abrupt jaunt through a wall to avoid the second person to charge in. Next round, move 20 feet down the wall, abrupt jaunt back, and sonic snap the second one.

Also, prioritize. Use the magic missile on targets with ranged ability. Save sonic snaps for melee brawlers. And remember. The best defense is not to be there when they swing.

Note: Due to limitations, the Abrupt Jaunt variant is not compatible with the Midnight meta variant WITH sonic snaps. If you want Abrupt Jaunt, you have to be a specialist (non focused) of a different school. If you take this route, Get your free kill on an enemy, and buff your allies (Enlarge Person) or debuff enemies (Grease, etc). This variant is LESS effective in FFA's, unless they underestimate and ignore you. In that case, ready an action to kill the first person to come near you, and concentrate on not being caught/cornered.

If it's a 1v1 tourney, where you fight 1 at a time, consider switching up your second flaw feat to precocious apprentice. People have suggested damage spells such as Scorching Ray, but may I humbly suggest Invisibility? With a Fell Drain Magic Missile at your disposal, something to make you nearly unattackable until you've won... After all, not many people can See Invisibility at level 1. It's a rather specialized talent.

Example sheet without immediate cast variant (28 Point Buy): http://mydndgame.com/character/1104/sheet

Alternate Tactic

To expound on Eldariel's advice, concerning Precocious Apprentice, and boom mages:

There's also a Fire based residual feat in Complete mage, and another one in Forgotten realms campaign setting (regional).

Taking the 2 of them boot you to CL 5 for Fire spells.

With precocious apprentice, and those, you can make a nasty Kelgore's Firebolt (5d6, save for half) and Scorching Ray (2x 4d6 rays).

If you take 2 flaws: Sudden Maximize.

Follow up Sources

Precocious Apprentice is a feat in Complete Arcane. It's in one of the sidebars towards the back of the book.

Note: These are techniques that are designed to WIN. They are not fair tactics. There are defenses against them (the shield spell and stealth spring to mind), but, if your opponent doesn't have a defense, they are dead. The second one has a vulnerability to stealth and the Evasion ability (luckily very hard to get at level 1). Both tactics are vulnerable to minion makers (Ashbound druids with extend spell and the easy metamagic feat (2nd flaw from the Fell Drain build above), gives summon monster 1 a nasty long duration).


Less Cheesy:
Grapple/Melee Build
Dragonborn (Races of the Dragon) Water Orc (MM1 + Unearthed Arcana)
Barbarian (Complete Champion variant that gets improved trip at level 2 - really rocks if you allow progressive XP, or you do a level 2 tourney).

Max Strength (22, including the +4 racial mod).
Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike
Flaw1: Improved Grapple
Flaw2: Scorpion's Grasp (Sandstorm)

Use a guisarme. This lets you trip at 10' range (+7 bonus, always try this, unless your opponent is low AC, and will squish to your 2d4+9 hit).

Advantages of Trip: Touch attack. Makes it easy to hit many types of armored opponents. Increases accuracy of followup attack. Enemy provokes an AoO when they get up. Ends movement at 10' range, too far away to attack you.

If they close to 5 feet away, and think you helpless, think again! unarmed strikes are awesome, in that head, legs, etc. can be used. If you trip an opponent, you can on your next action, 5 foot step in and unarmed strike at a +4 bonus (+11 to hit, not shabby for a level 1). If you hit, scorpion's grasp kicks in, giving you a grapple attempt (+11 bonus, you've got it). If that hits, you get unarmed damage AGAIN.

You get one rage, but when you do, your guisarme goes to 2d4+12, your unarmed strike is 1d3+8 (instead of +6), and your attack bonus is +9 (instead of +7). Also, your grapple modifier goes to +13.

If you can get an enlarge, your attack bonus doesn't go up, but add +5 to your grapple, and increase die types for damage, as well as adding +1 damage to all attacks above, and extending your reach (15-20 feet with guisarme, 10 feet with unarmed strike).

Kurald Galain
2009-03-20, 04:25 AM
P
-1rst Level

At first level, the one who wins init is quite likely to down the opponent on his first attack.

So take imp init and high dex, take an area attack if doing 4x4, and your odds are very good.

Talic
2009-03-20, 04:45 AM
Not always.

If the battle begins without Line of Sight to your opponent(s), initiative isn't always a win.

Tempest Fennac
2009-03-20, 04:48 AM
If you wanted to use Alter Self, Lupins, page 36 of http://crystalkeep.com/d20/ are Monstrous Humanoids which lack LA, so they may be a good choice here.

Kurald Galain
2009-03-20, 04:55 AM
Not always.

Well, it's a good thing then that I said "your odds are very good" rather than "you will always win" :smalltongue:

Talic
2009-03-20, 05:11 AM
Well, it's a good thing then that I said "your odds are very good" rather than "you will always win" :smalltongue:

You actually said "is quite likely", but I digress. :smalltongue:

Either way, a decent dex (+2 or so), combined with nerveskitter is good. +7 isn't shabby. If the tourneys usually start with LOS, Improved Initiative will push that to +11, which is pretty solid at level 1.

If his tourneys usually start without? Consider really hard to hurt builds. I've seen Carmendine monk builds that can get AC in excess of 30 with strong saves...

Elan PsyWars that can soak 80 damage... (improved damage absorbing feat, and a bunch of the extra power point feat)

And several others. The ability to control your opponent, outlast your opponent, or kill your opponent regardless of his defenses, those are the strong moves.

Hence why Fell drain, high damage boom spells, and grapple are prominent.

The grappler above is great in 1v1. In 2v2 or 3v3? Well, grappled opponents are flat footed. Sounds like a nice combo. Especially since dragonborn water orcs get a +4 to con. That means that a 14 con (and you'll not want much higher, so you can have a decent dex) yields an actual con of 18, which gives you 16 hp, which lets you survive 1-2 hits while getting in position. Plus, enraged, a fully successful unarmed grapple combo yields (if enraged) 2d3+16, or 20 average damage, in 2 seperate chunks. This means that even the elan's eating 10 (usually enough to kill it, as the immediate action absorb can only be done once a turn). The Guisarme deals 2d4+12, or 17 average damage... also enough to drop most foes in one hit. The high attack bonus is what grants the nearly assured hit, and canny playing with the reach level the character has allows for a host of strong options... Even with low initiative.

Further, he's already been shown to be the last one picked. That means he's not going to be prioritized on the kill order, most likely. If his action is to charge and drop some fool, and incidentally ensure he's threatening 2 more? He's done his team a favor, he has.

Charbau927
2009-03-20, 11:44 AM
Thanks go to all! I feel very confident! I knew i could count on you!!!!

:smallbiggrin:

Olo Demonsbane
2009-03-21, 01:32 PM
Here are my ideas:

Dragonfire Adept (DM) with Entangling Exhalation (RoD). Every turn he can entangle all of his enemies, do damage to them, and move away. If you win Initiative, you can almost auto beat anything else.

Dragonborn Gnome Warlock. If you get prep time, climb up a wall. When combat starts, use your wings to glide around, eldritch blasting everyone else.

Human Wizard with Fell Drain and Metamagic School Focus. This is basically an improvement of the above idea, as you can use three Fell Drain Sonic Snaps to take out the enemy side without using Flaws.