Malev-O-Meter

[Lappy9000]

Naturally, Vaarsuvius' little stunt with the Familicide spell has quite a flurry of posts on the boards. And of course, alignment questions abound as a result. While Familicide was almost definitely an Evil action, Vaarsuvius may or may not actually be evil (yet).

But! That's not the point of this thread! Instead of determing the Evilness of Vaarsuvius, we shall be determing the Evilness of the action, using nothing but the Malev-O-meter!

For those whose memories are a tad rusty, the Malev-O-meter! made its first apperance in OoTS#489 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0489.html). Using the universal scale of Evil known as "Kilonazis (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=kilonazi)" the Malev-O-meter is capable of ranking Evil.

For a sense of scale, Belkar's actions just prior to Roy's death earned him about 3.3-3.4 kilonazis on the Malev-O-meter. A theoretical child of Sauron and Cruella Deville would have scored an even 5 kilonazis during the same time.

So, I ask you, fellow playgrounders, how many kilonazis would casting Familicide to destroy every blood realitive of a black dragon rack up on the Malev-O-meter?

[Mando Knight]

The act probably has a really funky alignment shift associated with it.

For example, if ABD had five living relatives of the same age category, and about a hundred other relatives of varying hit dice and level, V just caused the largest massacre of high-HD creatures since the slaughter of the Sapphire Guard. Thus, I'd assign an alignment shift of about two kilonazis to that act alone based on numbers of high-HD creatures killed. However, if all but approximately 10% of them are Evil, that would probably be a Justifiable Act, thus bringing down the Malev-o-Meter back to about 0.5 kilonazis. Then you factor in that Suvie ripped ABD away from the afterlife unwillingly to force her into an unwilling sapient undead to cast the spell; it's probably back up to around 1 kilonazi due to the EVIL!-ness of creating an undead, trapping the unwilling soul of the creature into a form where they are helpless, and using that undead to cast a spell that likely has the [EVIL] descriptor. Also, because of Suvie's CL and the fact that the spell was an [EVIL] spell of effectively 10th level, that would knock V back up to around 1.5 or 2 kilonazis.

In short, the method of destroying the sixty (62 shown) to a hundred (quite possible) relatives of the ABD significantly override the Good act that would be destroying several high-HD creatures of an irrevocably evil alignment.

If V started with an evil-rating of 0 kilonazis, and the acceptance of the Soul Splice (with three high-level evil spellcasters!) was worth another 0.5-1.0 kilonazis, I estimate that Suvie now has a Malev-O-Meter rating of about 2-3 kilonazis... higher than Belkar's Kilonazi count at the time of Roy's death.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

I mostly agree with the above analysis, but think that the final tally is 3.5 + 0.3 Kilonazis

[silvadel]

I agree that this one is complicated and maybe unratable.

I mean a god of justice/vengeance or a god of death of neutral alignment might consider this HUGE.

A standard good god might see this as a "Never can you become good again" thing.

A standard evil god might not like the idea of so many powerful evil dragons being removed from the realm.

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Remember though that revenge in mideval times did run through family lines -- I forget how many generations/removed it ran but 6 or 7 generations is indeed possibly a sanctioned amount for true revenge. As such it might not be as strong as we modern people see it.

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After this act your best shot at a decent afterlife would be to choose a deity with a portfolio of as I said justice/revenge or death with a neutral alignment -- for them it would be a positive act. Actually if V's god is say the elven god of magic and said god is of neutral alignment -- this could be mostly irrelevant to it depending on how abstracted said deity is.

[hamishspence]

you could always use the Fiendish Codex 2 scale.

Casting 2 Evil spells means 2 1 point corrupt acts

Killing at least 3 beings which are not known to be of "consummate, irredeemable evil" = 3 Murders (5 pts each), possibly Cold Blooded Murders (6 pts each), since V does not have provocation from any of the three.

(depending on the setting, the chromatic dragons might count too)

So, at least 17 pts of corruption (9 is enough to be destined for 9 Hells if Lawful). So V is Lawful (or has done enough Lawful acts), V would be destined for Nine Hells, even if V changed alignment later. Only way to fix this- fix the damage done, and perform some sort of atonement quest.

If V was to try and redeem self, but die before doing this, V would come back as a hellbred.

[Dreamthiev]

It's not an evil act at all, V saved the bunny. :smallwink:

[Lappy9000]

It's not an evil act at all, V saved the bunny. :smallwink:I'm pretty sure that rabbit was the next Hitler.

[R. Malcovitch]

Well, Hitler himself probably registers a Giganazi. He killed somewhere in the range of 6 million to 10 million people. V killed 60-something dragons. That means V's body count is 1/11667th of Hitlers assuming an 8 million kill-count, which would mean proportionately V's Familicide registers 85,711 nazis, or around 86 kilonazis.

[Ted The Bug]

Well, Hitler himself probably registers a Giganazi. He killed somewhere in the range of 6 million to 10 million people. V killed 60-something dragons. That means V's body count is 1/11667th of Hitlers assuming an 8 million kill-count, which would mean proportionately V's Familicide registers 85,711 nazis, or around 86 kilonazis.

But don't forget to factor in that we can presume most of the dragons were evil. I like the 90% idea, so going with that, s/he'd have only killed 6 non-evil dragons, so the act would only be 8.6 KN. Subtract 77.4 KN for the good act of killing the evil dragons, but add 70 for doing something that could potentially destroy the Upper Plains (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0633.html). That would put it at roughly 2 KN, which seems about right.