Oh, my.

[magic9mushroom]

I was just reading back through the comic, and noticed something really awesome.

A lot of people have mentioned when discussing Xykon's intellect, something along the lines of, "Xykon only got saved by a fluke in the throne room."

Think about said fluke for a moment.

Miko was only in a position to do that because she was imprisoned and crazy. Now why did she go crazy?

And who has access to epic divinations?

Xykon just got a LOT scarier to my mind.

[Occasional Sage]

Clever, but I don't buy it. It just doesn't fit Xykon's style.

[Flickerdart]

Xykon doesn't have access to Epic divination. He's only got Cloister and what is likely a hundred spells that blow stuff up and/or reanimate it. Possibly both at the same time. Divining isn't his style, as even the most trivial strategy bores him and his solution to problems is "I cast the spells that make the peoples fall down". Sure, Xykon's Moderately Escapable Forcecage was his spell, but it was probably Redcloak's plan, and as we see that the scrying sensor couldn't penetrate the throne room, the scrying spell wasn't epic. If he had an Epic Divination spell, he would have known where the gem was without Miko's aid.

[mikeejimbo]

If Redcloak were epic, the world would be screwed.

[magic9mushroom]

Xykon doesn't have access to Epic divination. He's only got Cloister and what is likely a hundred spells that blow stuff up and/or reanimate it. Possibly both at the same time. Divining isn't his style, as even the most trivial strategy bores him and his solution to problems is "I cast the spells that make the peoples fall down". Sure, Xykon's Moderately Escapable Forcecage was his spell, but it was probably Redcloak's plan, and as we see that the scrying sensor couldn't penetrate the throne room, the scrying spell wasn't epic. If he had an Epic Divination spell, he would have known where the gem was without Miko's aid.

That's what he wants you to think...

[V'icternus]

I doubt Xykon can see the future. And if he can, he doesn't.

Besides, I doubt he wanted to have a ghost-martyr-spirit-thingy hack him halfway to dust. Besides, after the battle, he said they lost, because he did not want the gate to be destroyed. If he could see the future, and knew it would happen anyway, what would the point of been stopping O-Chul? There's no way that Miko's actions were predicted by him in advance.

And even if someone can predict the future, I doubt even they could foresee the insane actions of that crazy Paladin...

[Mr. Pin]

Divination doesn't work like that. you don't see everything (i.e. the outcome of battles you're going to be involved in) Because even the DM doesn't know that yet.

[Tempest Fennac]

Regarding who came up with the idea of scrying on Miko, Red Cloak admits to Xykon in 1 comic that he didn't think they'd come across any Paladins before Azure City, which suggests it was Xykon's idea (I'll try to find the comic in a minute). I don'd honestly think he expected Miko to fall and go insane due to having no way of knowing the what the situation between her, Shojo and the Order before she made a comment about them lying about Xykon's destruction.

EDIT: Here it is: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0376.html .

[hamishspence]

Greater gods do get to see events in the future, if they relate to their portfolio, according to Deities and Demigods.

Intermediate ones only get to sense ones occoring in present, and Lesser gods, like Tiamat, only sense events that affect the welfare of at least 500 evil dragons.

[MickJay]

500? Then why all the talk about Tiamat suddenly appearing before V and crushing him to bits if, according to D&D lore, didn't even sense what just happened?

[hamishspence]

Possibilities:

1: the 63 we see in the strip are just as many as we can fit without going overboard- actual number is much higher

2: all the spouses, children, etc of the dragons we see, who aren't closely related enough to be affected by the spell, still count as having their welfare affected- they've lost family members.

[Optimystik]

Divination doesn't work like that. you don't see everything (i.e. the outcome of battles you're going to be involved in) Because even the DM doesn't know that yet.

First of all, OotS isn't a tabletop game, it's an actual world whose laws merely follow those of D&D. There IS no DM.

Secondly, the Oracle proves to us that some diviners in OotS-land can completely see the future. I doubt Xykon is one of them, but it's not impossible.


Xykon doesn't have access to Epic divination. He's only got Cloister and what is likely a hundred spells that blow stuff up and/or reanimate it. Possibly both at the same time. Divining isn't his style, as even the most trivial strategy bores him and his solution to problems is "I cast the spells that make the peoples fall down".

You're making the fatal mistake of underestimating Xykon. Not only does he scry regularly (TeeVo!), he also can predict people's moves when he takes the time to do so: in SoD he knew about Right-Eye's plan to kill him and took precautions, and he also charmed the MitD as an insurance policy against Redcloak.
So he's not all smashy-smashy.

[Theodoriph]

Doesn't the oracle get his powers from Tiamat...and if so...I'm pretty sure she can see the future too.

[hamishspence]

seeing the future is rather harder in normal D&D than in OOTS. Even the greater gods have limitations (1 week per divine rank (so 16-20 weeks)- event must be connected to deitys portfolio.

And Tiamat is, in D&D, only a Lesser Deity. Though it is possible the OOTS version is more powerful- maybe even a Greater Deity.

[Volkov]

seeing the future is rather harder in normal D&D than in OOTS. Even the greater gods have limitations (1 week per divine rank (so 16-20 weeks)- event must be connected to deitys portfolio.

And Tiamat is, in D&D, only a Lesser Deity. Though it is possible the OOTS version is more powerful- maybe even a Greater Deity.

I think Tiamat takes Io's place in OOTS, the Creator of all Dragons although she strongly favors her Chromatic kin. So I'd say a greater or even Overdeity.

[hamishspence]

Io is Intermediate in Draconomicon. the highest-statted deity in Deities and Demigods is the only one in that pantheon- rank 20. So, overdeity for Tiamat seems unlikely, though Greater Deity of Western Gods Pantheon wouldn't be too much of a stretch.

[Volkov]

Io is Intermediate in Draconomicon. the highest-statted deity in Deities and Demigods is the only one in that pantheon- rank 20. So, overdeity for Tiamat seems unlikely, though Greater Deity of Western Gods Pantheon wouldn't be too much of a stretch.

I think she and marduk are greater deities to compensate for there being only two of them.

[hamishspence]

See SoD for at least 1 more- female, crowned, looks a bit like Ishtar. the phrase "and the rest of the western gods" was used in the Crayons of Time strips. While its possible some were killed by the snarl, like the Eastern Gods (Greek) I doubt it.

[Volkov]

See SoD for at least 1 more- female, crowned, looks a bit like Ishtar. the phrase "and the rest of the western gods" was used in the Crayons of Time strips. While its possible some were killed by the snarl, like the Eastern Gods (Greek) I doubt it.

I doubt the Western gods are as numerous as the Northern Gods, who are probably the dominant pantheon at the moment due to the sheer number of norse gods, *second only to the greek, but we all know what happened to them*

[rxmd]

Now why did she go crazy?

And who has access to epic divinations?

Doesn't make much sense. Firstly the premise is wrong, because we don't know that he has access to epic divinations as far as I can remember; he's just using crystal balls and Teevos a lot. Secondly, if he had known things in advance, he wouldn't have let his ass get kicked the way he did by the ghost-martyrs of the Sapphire Guard. Thirdly, omniscient bad guys usually make for remarkably boring stories, and the Giant is a better storyteller than that.

[hamishspence]

Dragon Magazine had a pretty long list of Sumerian deities and their domains for D&D. I'd be surprised if they only consist of the three shown in the Crayons of Time strips.

[whitelaughter]

Overly complicated, and frankly not *cruel* enough to have Xykon's touch.

However, the bouncing ball was still in the throne room, so Miko may indeed have looked at it on the way in; it would continue functioning for another 3 hours.


So interesting point. Although if she had seen it, she would have been more likely to hit O-chul than the throne.

[Tempest Fennac]

Heyes didn't change so she probably didn't see the ball (she appeared shocked just before she enters the throne room, which implied that she thought destroying the gate was necessary due to how almost all of the Ghost Martyrs had been defeated and she probably thought Xykon was about to defeat Soon).

SoD spoiler:
Xylon could have been lying about what the ring did in order to drive home the idea that RC killed RE for nothing. The fact that the Order only found 1 ring on Xykon adds to this theory to a small degree.