[3.5] Cleric Help

[Assassin89]

Remember that thread about me creating a mystic theruge? Well that character is in Elysium. This time I have a different cleric who I intend to be offensive and will be reaching 5th level soon. The main question here is how I should set up my character so that he qualifies for the PrC of Warpriest.

Alignment: LN
Race: Half-elf
Deity: St. Cuthbert
Domains: Strength and Destruction
stats:
Str 11, Dex 10, Con 15, Int 13, Wis 17 (16+ 1 stat bump), Cha 12

Feats:
Weapon focus (Heavy Mace)
Combat Casting
Leadership (From magical book)

I currently have no ranks in sense motive or diplomacy, but I calculate that I might hit warpriest at level 11.

What I am looking for is any possible multiclasses that can get me the qualifications sooner. Suggested feats are also recommended.

[Zincorium]

First off- are you 100% positive you want to use the warpriest PrC? It's really only a good choice for paladins, who qualify at fifth level and actually need the spell-like abilities. For a cleric it's rather terrible.

That said, there's no way of cheating on BAB, but unless you're dying to put skill points in other skills, you should have bought all your skills up to the required point by level 9 at the latest- you get three a level and can put more than one point in at a time, so it'll take you 5 levels to get all of the ranks, leaving you free to enter warpriest as your tenth level. There don't seem to be any other obstacles.

Lesson to be learned? If you think the game might go past fifth level, check on what PrC you want to take at character creation and make sure you are working on the prereqs so you don't have to make a left turn partway through the game.

[Assassin89]

First off- are you 100% positive you want to use the warpriest PrC? It's really only a good choice for paladins, who qualify at fifth level and actually need the spell-like abilities. For a cleric it's rather terrible.

That said, there's no way of cheating on BAB, but unless you're dying to put skill points in other skills, you should have bought all your skills up to the required point by level 9 at the latest- you get three a level and can put more than one point in at a time, so it'll take you 5 levels to get all of the ranks, leaving you free to enter warpriest as your tenth level. There don't seem to be any other obstacles.

Lesson to be learned? If you think the game might go past fifth level, check on what PrC you want to take at character creation and make sure you are working on the prereqs so you don't have to make a left turn partway through the game.

Paladins cannot qualify for warpriest unless they multiclass to cleric, as you need access to domains of war, destruction, strength, or protection. I think you are using NWN2's prerequisites rather than those found in Complete Divine.

I might as well give reasons why I intend to be offensive. First off, one party member is a healer, meaning that I can focus more on combat. Second, the game will go on for several weeks. Third, two glory domain.

[Zincorium]

Paladins cannot qualify for warpriest unless they multiclass to cleric, as you need access to domains of war, destruction, strength, or protection. I think you are using NWN2's prerequisites rather than those found in Complete Divine.

Um, it's 'must be able to cast a spell from this domain' + 'even one spell counts as having access' rather that 'must have these domains'. It's badly written, BUT paladins, by the rules as written count for that prerequisite.

Please at least give me some credit for honesty. If I was using NWN2 prerequisites, for what is obviously a paper and pencil game, I would have said so.


I might as well give reasons why I intend to be offensive. First off, one party member is a healer, meaning that I can focus more on combat. Second, the game will go on for several weeks. Third, two glory domain.

Offensive is all well and good.

But you will be able to cast Divine power to get full BAB, and warpriest doesn't help past that. You can simply cast the spells that warpriest gives you at a similar level.

Glory is okay if you're specializing in turning undead to the point where you can get consistent destroyed results against foes you'll actually need it against. Otherwise it's hard to justify spending the opportunity cost on.

You are sacrificing both half your caster levels and your chance to take a better prestige class for things you don't need, and you don't even meet the prerequisites. Flavor wise, you are already a warpriest, and this class will not help you one iota to roleplay that concept. I, quite frankly, do not understand what motivation you have for taking this class.

But that's okay, I gave you what help can be given, and if you want to go ahead, you'll be okay. Cleric is a really good class.

[Assassin89]

To clarify further, I want to improve my character's skills in combat. I'm not sure if there are any prestige classes that I can qualify for that can help improve my ability to be better at weaponry based combat.

I also have a different question about certain feats. If I take spontaneous wounder, and I have the ability to spontaneously cast cure spells, does that mean I can spontaneously cast both inflict and cure spells or do I have to prepare inflict spells first?

[Gorbash]

Ordained Champion from Complete Champion.

3/5 spellcasting and he's a melee beast. The only downside is that you permanently lose the ability to spontanously cast Healing spells, which is replaced by spontaneously casting War domain spells.

Slap DMM (Quicken) on him and you won't be using your standard actions on casting spells in combat ever again.

[Assassin89]

Ordained Champion from Complete Champion.

3/5 spellcasting and he's a melee beast. The only downside is that you permanently lose the ability to spontanously cast Healing spells, which is replaced by spontaneously casting War domain spells.

Slap DMM (Quicken) on him and you won't be using your standard actions on casting spells in combat ever again.

Problem with that. I need to worship Hextor or Heironeous and the deity my character worships is St. Cuthbert, not to mention that the reason I chose Strength and Destruction domains is because their effects stack (at least according to my DM).

[Gorbash]

Yes, but adaptation paragraph says this:


Although the ordained champion is designed primarily as a follower of Hextor, it can easily be altered to fit into the church of any martial deity of any alignment.

So, if your DM has common sense, he'll let you play it.


not to mention that the reason I chose Strength and Destruction domains is because their effects stack (at least according to my DM).

What does that have to do with anything?

[Eldariel]

Problem with that. I need to worship Hextor or Heironeous and the deity my character worships is St. Cuthbert, not to mention that the reason I chose Strength and Destruction domains is because their effects stack (at least according to my DM).

See the Adaptation-section though: it specifies that the class easily fits any martially minded deity. Just switch the specifics. In this case, simply switch all references to "War" to references to "Strength" and you're good to go (I suppose Destruction would work as well) - Ordained Champions suit St. Cuthbert just fine.

That said, if you dislike adaptation for a reason or another (even when spelled out in the book), Warpriest is still relatively "meh". It just lacks the "smite thy arse"-capability you'd normally expect from a Cleric. Indeed, a melee Cleric (with no PrCs) would whop a Warpriest's ass any day. So if you just want to be a good frontliner, pick any full casting Cleric PrC (again, Ordained Champion is exempted due to the power of the class features) and go on with that. Church Inquisitor, for example, could be a very solid PrC for this job with a bunch of handy class features, full casting advancement and continued medium BAB along with a rather "martial" fluff.

[Gorbash]

Nah, no need to change anything. He wanted to be war-oriented, OC fits him perfectly. You'll have to waste a feat to get entry, but you gain another domain spells.

Then take Holy Warrior feat and go to town.

[Eldariel]

Nah, no need to change anything. He wanted to be war-oriented, OC fits him perfectly. You'll have to waste a feat to get entry, but you gain another domain spells.

Well, War isn't a St. Cuthbert domain which is kinda meh if that's what your class focuses on so at least I find it preferable to move the class features onto a domain that does exist for the character and is pretty much the same.

[tyckspoon]

When you get a few more levels done, consider a level or two in Contemplative. Almost every Cleric meets the requirements without even trying (13 ranks Know: Religion, divine spellcasting, and having direct contact with a servant of your deity {ie, cast Lesser Planar Ally or Commune at least once in your adventuring career}) In return, you get extra domains and a few other neat features. You probably don't want to take more than two or so levels, but that's all you need- you get a domain from the first one. Pick Law, and swap the granted power for Law Devotion as per Complete Champion. Law Devotion grants a +3/+5/+7 sacred/profane bonus to attacks or AC, depending on your level and your deity's alignment and where you want to place it. Swift activation, lasts for a minute, bonus can be switched between defense and attack each turn, you can burn Turn Undead attempts to get more activations of it. It's a really nice boost for almost no sacrifice.

[JaxGaret]

Another good route would be to take a level or two in Paladin, then go into Fist of Raziel. It would require your character to shift to Lawful Good, though.

Fist of Raziel is an excellent holy martial PrC, especially for characters who are more Cleric than Paladin, as it advances your Cleric casting at a good rate.

[Assassin89]

The problem with paladin is that I have a cohort who is a True Neutral Bard, meaning there might be some problems.

As for Fist of Raziel, I do not think BoED is in use.

Can someone please answer this question: If I am able to turn undead and I have spontaneous wounder, am I able to spontaneously cast both inflict and cure spells if I do not have an inflict spell prepared?

[Douglas]

Can someone please answer this question: If I am able to turn undead and I have spontaneous wounder, am I able to spontaneously cast both inflict and cure spells if I do not have an inflict spell prepared?
Yes. You can spontaneously cast cure spells as long as you have spell slots remaining, and you can spontaneously cast inflict spells a number of times limited by your wisdom bonus.

Oh, and I'll join the chorus saying Warpriest sucks. Full BAB? Just cast Divine Power. Mass Cure Light Wounds? By the time you get that, a straight cleric would just cast it from his spells per day, and do it more than 1/day. Heroes' Feast? Same. Mass Heal? Ok, you might get this 1 or 2 levels earlier than the cleric, but it's still 1/day at reduced caster level. The rest of the class features are nowhere near worth 5 levels of caster progression.

Just keep going straight cleric, you don't need a PrC to be a powerful melee warrior.