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View Full Version : various questions about a campaign [4E]



Kol Korran
2009-03-22, 12:29 PM
long story short, the DMing role has been thrust on me sooner than expected. i have DMed plenty in 3.5, and played a little bit in 4e.

anywho, i'm DMing for 5 players, all 1st level, the normal roles. as to my questions:
1- part of the adventure takes place in jungle ruins, with shifters (reduced to level 1-3) and wolves on searching for the party. the party is warned to avoid combat (by a companion that escorts them), because every search party carries a horn to summon the others. plus, when the party gets close to the other side of the ruined city, there are two pairs of sentinels on top of high story buildings. (shifter minions)
questions: how would you deal with an entire group sneaking? with the entire situation? just as a skill challange? what special actions do you anticipate the characters might take to affect the outcome, and how should they be handled?

my thoughts are a for the first part is a skill challenge of 6 succeses, 3 failures, moderate DCS.
- stealth: two roles every round. after each failed role the party must succeed at another role (outisde the play) to avoid being dound out
- nature: navigate the jungle, anticipate overgrowth, the wolves.
- knoweledge history: you recognize the general city plan, and can add +2 to the next nature checks. (usable up to 3 times)
- atheltics: overcome a difficult obstacle that shortens the way (only once)
failure would bring them to combat with a search party, (their level of an encounter) after which they must succeed on a stealth check to avoid meeting another. (further search parties are bigger)
question: could streetwise be used? even if it's those are just ancient ruins? any other skills?

then for the sentinel towers, i expect the party to deal with it in one of two ways: either sneak past the entire party, or send the rogue and warlcok to take the sentinels out. (by then they will know some are minions)
- entire group sneaking: only the worst sneak modifier of the group is applied. and the DC goes up for every character with an armor that causes a skill penalty (4 succeses before 2 failures)
failure would bring a fairly big force on their trail (2 levels more)
question: would you deal with this option in another way?

- take the sentinels out: first take down the wolf at the entrance, by either nature or intimidate. only the sneaky characters roll for stealth two roles: two failures calls the search party, one loses the surprise at the battle at the top. then a mini battle on the top of the sentinel towers (against two minions) the battle must end before the shifters second turn in which they call reinforcements.
question: good enough "mini encounter structure"?

the only smart ideas i can think that the characters might use are on the line of a diversion: burn part of the forest, or send someone with a high stealth to another part of the city, or even a simple ghost sound. all could be either played out, or simply give bonuses to skills (or even immediate succeses)
question: what else do you think i should be prepared for?

after this th party clear the ruins (there are ruins all ovcver the island they are on), and while the shifters are looking for them, the party makes way, until they reach the bridge...

but that might be for another thread, this one has gone too long.the next one is right here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5912059#post5912059)
all help or opinions would be appreciated...

TheOOB
2009-03-22, 12:39 PM
For stealth, at least, you have the entire group roll stealth separately. It is possible that the enemies may see the fighter and not the rogue for example. Typically the less stealth members of the team will hang back giving the foes penalties to their perception score. If the less-than-stealthly members must get close, the stealth members can go to a point where they can see the enemy, and use hand signals to say when a good time to move from point to point is(aid another).

As for how often to roll stealth, the round by round thing is really only for combat. I personally require them to roll stealth once per general task. Sneaking into a castle courtyard might be one test, silently picking the lock might be another, and going down the hall without waking anyone up a third.

Be sure to mention to your players that if they want to avoid combat, to pick up the stealth skill. It doesn't make sense for players to try to use a tactic they suck at.

For streetwise, remember it's a charisma based skill, it's more about dealing with people and finding things. Ancient ruins scream dungeoneering.

Tiki Snakes
2009-03-22, 01:00 PM
Skill challenge, (whatever difficulty sounds fair to you), probably requiring a stealth roll from every player, as part of it, though. 7 or more successes required, and however many failures to avoid at your choice.

If there's an archer or ranged type involved, you could throw in an attack-roll to 'snipe' the horn-holding searcher as a possible, too. It's a flexible system.

The important thing, though, is that success should either make any resulting fight easier, if not completely allow the party to escape their pursuit.

Failure should not mean, you-are-capture and/or roll new characters, it should mean a challenging, non-ideal but essentially survivable fight, (Even if by survivable it means that the party is forced to go a direction they wouldn't otherwise - Forced to hide in a cave network, filled with....monsters! Jump from a rope-bridge into the rapids below to escape, etc).

Skill challenges should, where possible, not be simple pass-or-fail things, and should allow the action to continue either way, just with wildly differing results.

Kol Korran
2009-03-22, 01:12 PM
thanks TheOOB!


For stealth, at least, you have the entire group roll stealth separately. It is possible that the enemies may see the fighter and not the rogue for example. Typically the less stealth members of the team will hang back giving the foes penalties to their perception score. If the less-than-stealthly members must get close, the stealth members can go to a point where they can see the enemy, and use hand signals to say when a good time to move from point to point is(aid another).

that fits a particular situation, i was more aiming for sneaking around the town for hours. i thought that since stealth is more than just moving silently and hiding in shadows, but also a more general approach at what routes to take, how to avoid being detected, how to dampen sound and such, i'd let individual characters take the test, leading the party. i agree to your approach concerning the sentinel mini encounter though.


As for how often to roll stealth, the round by round thing is really only for combat. I personally require them to roll stealth once per general task. Sneaking into a castle courtyard might be one test, silently picking the lock might be another, and going down the hall without waking anyone up a third.

in the snetinel encounter, the two roles of stealth are for climbing the building silently, and actually surprising the lookouts. for the general skill challange the "round by round" is for skill challanges rounds, and represents a period of time in which many small tasks are done.


Be sure to mention to your players that if they want to avoid combat, to pick up the stealth skill. It doesn't make sense for players to try to use a tactic they suck at.

some players want to avoid combat, some don't, sometimes violence is the best option, sometime it's not. i want my players to deal with various situations, some that they are prepared for, some that they are not, some that they have an advantage in, some in a disadvantage. i try to encourage many types of encoutners. hopefully, i am succeeding to some degree.
on another note: i don't think that ever would the entire party take stealth.


For streetwise, remember it's a charisma based skill, it's more about dealing with people and finding things. Ancient ruins scream dungeoneering
not streetwise, got it! about dungeoneering, doesn't it aplly to underground only? it sounds like a good option though..

as to Tiki Snakes(excellent name!)

i allready plan my skill challanges to be played out, not just rolled out, and they all have implications for success and failure (i did mention failure just meant the party gihhts a search party).

i feel uncomfortable with the "everybody must roll stealth" approach, since this doesn't apply to other skills such as diplomacy, arcana, and so on. in a way, the steathy character is being penalized for the non stealthy ones... in other skills someone takes the lead and makes things easier for the rest. but i'll think about it, maybe one character makes an aid another that can help several others depending on the test result? (10- help 1, 15- help 2, 20- help 3, and so on). i'll think about it.

thanks again,
Kol