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Human Paragon 3
2009-03-24, 02:44 AM
I have been considering this for some time, building a best of three worlds style character: skills, magic and combat. I was thinking that combining Beguiler with Dread Commando would be a good way of accomplishing it. Both classes get 6+int skills. The beguiler provides some great utility spells, and the Dread Commando adds in +5bab and three dice of sudden strike, not to mention the ability to use those skills in full armor.

The main combat trick of this character, aside from the obvious beguiler shinanigans, would be to go invisible using Blinding Color Surge, then sudden strike/full attack the enemy to death. As soon as I've taken all 5 levels of D.C., I would switch to either Eldritch Knight for more spellcasting and full BAB or Arcane Trickster for more sneak attacks/skills/casting. Could go either way. I call the build The Predator.

There are a few problems with the build however. Let me get you up to speed.

First, it requires Dodge and Mobility. I mitigate this by taking Elusive Target to justify the feat expenditure.

Second, you lose some serious spellcasting by taking the Dread Commando levels. This can be toned down with Practiced Spellcaster, but the 5 missing spellcaster levels will hurt.

Third, the invisiblity/sudden strike trick only works against a narrow selection of enemies, and even then it's only 3 sudden strike dice, unless I boost it via more multiclassing.

Lastly, it takes fully 10 levels of beguiler to qualify for Dread Commando. This is a problem, because by then the extra 5 levels of BAB are practically meaningless. My plan to take care of this would be fitting in 3 levels of human paragon (for BAB+3 by level 5) then slipping in 2 levels of another full BAB class. The Human Paragon levels help with MAD, give you a skill for life, and give you a bonus feat to ease the Dodge/Mobility burden.

The other two levels of full BAB class are up for debate however. Here's how I've broken it down.

Option A: Fighter. This gives me d10hd, +2 BAB and two more feats to play with at the expense of my skills and caster level. Not sure how valuable the fighter feats would be in this build.

Option B: Thug Variant Fighter. Take 3 levels for two dice of sneak attack and +3 BAB. It doesn't make much sense to take 2 levels of this class because level 2 is dead. On the plus side, the skill selection is much better.

Option C: Dusk Blade. Again, you'll want 3 levels of this one for arcane channeling. Adding some shocking grasp onto that sudden strike can only be beneficial. Not great in the skill department, though unfortunately, and it begs for 3 levels, slowing my entrance into the PrCs I want to take.

I feel like there is some trick I am missing, some class or combination of classes that will put this build over the edge and into awesome territory. Or some feat that will tie it all together. What am I missing? Help please!

Keld Denar
2009-03-24, 02:55 AM
The biggest problem is that Beguiler doesn't give you very many spells that you can Sneak Attack with. Its really the Whelm line plus whatever you pick up from Advanced/Eclectic Learning. You could use it to qualify for Unseen Seer and then head into Dread Commando, but really, you'd be better off staying with USS and then transitioning into Arcane Trickster or back into Beguiler...

Olo Demonsbane
2009-03-24, 12:11 PM
Heres what I'd do:

Beguiler 6/Rouge 1/Assassin 1/Arcane Trickster 10/Unseen Seer 2

9th level spells, +8d6 sneak attack, and good skills all the way.

OR, if youre not set on the beguiler...

Rouge 1/Wizard 5/Assassin 1/Arcane Trickster 10/Unseen Seer 3

9th level spells, +9d6 sneak attack, and fairly decent skills, thanks to high Int bonus from Wizard and multiple skillmonkey classes. This build also gives you more spells to sneak attack with.

Myrmex
2009-03-24, 03:45 PM
Whelm doesn't require an attack roll, does it? If not, it's not eligible for SA dice.

By the time you get to level 10 in beguiler, the 5 levels of dread commando won't really help you be better at combat. You're going to be squishy as all get out, and the slight amount of damage bonus you get won't make up for the awesome spells you could be using.

Personally, I wouldn't want to give up more than three levels of beguiler casting. What is the expected level range of play?

You might also want to look at Abjurant Champion. It gets full BAB and full casting. It wouldn't synergize that well with beguiler, though. You need to be able to cast an abjuration spell to qualify for the class.

Chronos
2009-03-24, 07:58 PM
Heres what I'd do:

Beguiler 6/Rouge 1/Assassin 1/Arcane Trickster 10/Unseen Seer 2
Drop the Assassin, and take Unseen Seer before Arcane Trickster. USS doesn't require Sneak Attack, but it does advance it. This way, you're only losing one level of casting progression instead of two, and you don't have to argue with your DM about the evil requirement on Assassin.

Another tip: Since you're taking both Beguiler and Rogue, you're getting Trapfinding twice. Trade one of them for an alternate class feature. One good choice would be to play a Changeling, and take the racial substitution level for rogue.

Thurbane
2009-03-24, 09:30 PM
How about Ranger 1/Beguiler 6/Eldritch Knight 10/Beguiler 3...take either Able Leaner or Geurilla Scout as a feat so you get Hide and Move Silently as a skill for your EK levels. Maybe not exactly what you're looking for, but it does get you 9th level spells.

Paul H
2009-03-28, 08:25 PM
Hi

Running a Beguiler in an Eberron campaign.

Went Beguiler 6, then Warlock, then Eldritch Theurge. My two Eldritch 'Essences' grant me +6 Spot/Search + Comp Langs (Written only). Plus see in magical darkness & Darkvision 30'. Both compliment the Beguiler.

Downside is less Skill Points, only D4 HP, and inferior skill selection

Upside is full caster in both Beguiler/Warlock, better BAB. Also long lasting Eldritch Essences, Eldritch Blasts each round.

As for Beguiler spells requiring attack rolls, try Inevitable Defeat (PHBII Pg 115). Continuing damage spell, unless victim passes save. (No save 1st rnd). As an Enchantment works well with Unsettling Enchantment.

Put it in a Spell Storing weapon with high crit modifier (eg. Scythe) for more fun. 12D6 non-lethal damage 1st rnd, then 12d6 Dam/Rnd until save made or spell expires.......

Or just cast Gtr Invis on yourself, then keep casting/attacking. The save DC increases if the Beguiler attacks an unwary victim.

Cheers
Paul H