[3.5] Improved Alchemists Fire

[Nero24200]

Hello all

During a recent game my character was able to perfrom well in a few encounters due to my use of Alchemists Fire. I was thinking...maybe theres a way to make this more powerful so that it remains a valid tactic for me at higher levels with this character?

Though my Splat-Book-fu is weak, so I turn here. Is there any feats, prestige classes or even just items which can boost potential power of alchemic items such as alchemist's fire?

[The Rose Dragon]

I don't know if it is what you're looking for, but did you try Artificer?

[Olo Demonsbane]

The Epic Level Handbook has rules for creating improved alchelimical items

[jcsw]

The Epic Level Handbook has rules for creating improved alchelimical items

Which kinda suck...

...

1. Alchemical Savant - Magic of Eberron
2. There're are rules for additional types of alchemist's fire in some dragon magazine somewhere... Sadly I can't remember the number right now.
3. Gnome Calculus - Arms and Equipment guide, it's a flask launcher. With the rapid reload feat you should be able to fire multiple flasks a round.
4. Try using other elements (they're in the various books, but you should be able to get your DM to just let you have them anyway), fire damage is notoriously weak.

[Fax Celestis]

ECS has different base alchemical materials. Alchemist Savant lets you do some neat things with them. Beyond that, alchemy has really gotten the shaft.

[Fizban]

Here's my biggest post on the matter:


Alchemy isn't really a supported character idea. There are lots of 3rd party and homebrew classes, prestige classes, feats, items, and other stuff that all make it possible, but they usually all use their own new mechanics. The standard alchemy rules are just a set of consumable items you use in the early game before you can afford tons of magic, and the skill that makes them is just another craft skill.

Some people believe the rules support carrying larger quantities of alchemical items in the same container, allowing you to deal more damage at once. For example: an 8oz flask of acid deals 1d6 damage for 10gp, a 32oz bottle of acid deals 4d6 damage for 40gp. This could work for a time, but you need to establish a cap on how much can be used at once to avoid abuse. I'd suggest 5 dice, half the amount of total immersion in acid or boiling liquid.

This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75871) thread has some improved alchemical items, and allows for improved use with additional ranks of Craft [Alchemy].

There was a another thread that had rules for custom alchemical items and poisons, called flasks, that one could use to create more powerful and expensive items for use at higher level play. I can't seem to find the link though.

The core books suggest when making up your own alchemical items to compare them to magic effects and price them a bit higher, using existing items as a guide. I was wondering just how they price these, and realized:

Acid, Flask: ranged touch attack, 1d6 acid, 10gp
Alchemist's Fire, Flask: ranged touch attack, 1d6 fire, DC15 and give up next action or take another 1d6, 20gp
1 charge of 1st level wand: ranged touch attack, 1d6 or 1d8, 15gp

Tanglefoot Bag: ranged touch attack, entangle, DC15 or stuck in place, 50gp
1 charge of Entangle: entangle, save or stuck in place, requires plants, 15gp
1 charge wand of Web: entangle, save or stuck in place, 90gp

Smokestick: 10' cube of smoke, 20gp
1 charge of Obscuring Mist: 20' radius mist, 15gp

It would be better to compare to some splatbook items, but that would take a while. The prices seem to roughly line up between alchemical items and a single charge of a similar magical effect. Lower durations don't mean much since fights don't last very long anyway. At the very least, I think we could up the damage of existing items by multiplying their price to get an equivalent "caster level" increase:

Acid; 1d6=10gp, 2d6=30gp, 3d6=50gp, 4d6=70gp, 5d6=90gp
Alchemist's Fire; 1d6=20gp, 2d6=60gp, 3d6=100gp, 4d6=140gp, 5d6=180gp. Deals the same damage in the round after hit if target does not put out fire.

Increase the craft DC by maybe +2 per die, the same as the "equivalent caster level" increase.

New direct damage/debuff items can be priced by starting with 1/50th the price of a wand, or 15gp*spell level*caster level. Alcemical items with range are almost always 10' grenadelikes, and rarely have durations measured in more than rounds, so no matter the base effect you'll have to restrict it, and you don't get a price break. Round the price up to a nice number based on existing items and assign a weight that makes sense. It's important to note that this method would not be compatible with the 32oz wind bottle idea above, since it's already putting extra dice into a single attack. Craft DCs should start at 15, 20, or 25 depending on base effect, and go up with equivalent caster level above the minimum.

It should go without saying that this would only work with low level effects, and lots of spells just shouldn't be possible with alchemy. I figure it should work out for such direct effects though, and if ends up a little cheaper, I'd say it's still fine cause I wouldn't want to penalize people much for not buying in bulk. Even with extradimensional storage, 50 alchemical items will take up a lot of space, so you can't just get a whole non-magical wand.

I could also swear I've seen a feat somewhere, either printed or [probably] homebrew that pretty much just gave you +1 damage/level with alchemical items (assuming you'd maxed out your craft: alchemy).

And links to previous threads (I really have to organize my bookmarks):

New alchemical items that calculate their numbers based on your craft skill by Djinn In Tonic (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75871). He never did get around to price fixing though, so you'd have to make the abilities dependent upon the user.

New poison and alchemy rules, putting the two under the modular system by Rei Jin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91665). DCs and final results are pretty good, though too expensive for my taste.

General huh? thread similar to this one, where I posted my above quote of myself: link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5452589#post5452589). Thread ended with my post...seems to happen a lot.

[overduegalaxy]

I could also swear I've seen a feat somewhere, either printed or [probably] homebrew that pretty much just gave you +1 damage/level with alchemical items (assuming you'd maxed out your craft: alchemy).

You might be thinking of Grenadier, which is from...PHB2, I think.