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TheEmerged
2009-03-24, 08:42 PM
So, I'm theory-building out the classes from PHB2 that none of the players were interested in switching. So far it's been instructive, but I've hit something of a snag. I'm prepared to put it up to caffiene depravation but thought I'd post it here.

Character is a Goliath Warden. Overall I'm liking the power selection but I've hit something of a snag with feat selection.

"Goliath Greatweapon Prowess" doesn't impress me because a> he already has those proficiencies and b> I'd really rather be using a large shield than a 2-hander for a defender (especially one with a Ref defense as bad as his is). "Crushing Earthstrength" doesn't appeal to me, since the damage from it will apply to only one attack per encounter (and only if he burns a standard action for the Second Wind). "Wildblood Cunning" doesn't work because he went Earthstrength (since the root advantage of Earthstrength is better, IMO), and frankly has the same "only after burning a standard action on Second Wind" problem.

"Sudden Roots" has some temptation, especially since wardens mark more targets than other defenders. However "slow" isn't the most impressive condition to put on someone. "Revitalizing Font of Life" and "Marking of the Blessed" are of dubious value, since frankly saves are almost trivialized in 4e. "Markings of the Victor", however, he took at 1st level.

So he takes MotV @ 1st level, Weapon Focus & Weapon Expertise, probably a multiclass feat... and then he has 8th and 10th level without any feats jumping out at me. Any ideas?

Asbestos
2009-03-24, 09:33 PM
"Goliath Greatweapon Prowess" doesn't impress me because a> he already has those proficiencies and b> I'd really rather be using a large shield than a 2-hander for a defender (especially one with a Ref defense as bad as his is).

Agree. Any other defender could get away with it, but Warden's have particularly low ACs.


"Crushing Earthstrength" doesn't appeal to me, since the damage from it will apply to only one attack per encounter (and only if he burns a standard action for the Second Wind). "Wildblood Cunning" doesn't work because he went Earthstrength (since the root advantage of Earthstrength is better, IMO), and frankly has the same "only after burning a standard action on Second Wind" problem.
Agree. Both of these are probably very attractive to Dwarf Warden's however (who can choose freely between wildblood and earthstrength thanks to their racial mods)



"Sudden Roots" has some temptation, especially since wardens mark more targets than other defenders. However "slow" isn't the most impressive condition to put on someone.

Disagree here. When the Warden makes an opportunity attack it is likely because someone is moving past him on the way towards someone he is trying to protect or is trying to move away to get out of reach of his reach 5 interrupt. In these cases slow is exactly the sort of condition you want to put on them. In some ways it isn't as impressive as the fighter's ability to stop movement, but in other ways it is better. For example, an enemy can walk past the fighter, get hit, and then charge someone else. An enemy that has been slowed by the Warden better hope that the target he wants to charge is darn close and will also likely have the Warden right on his butt the next turn since he's only moved 2 squares away.



"Revitalizing Font of Life" and "Marking of the Blessed" are of dubious value, since frankly saves are almost trivialized in 4e.
These are of dubious value not because saves are trivialized (trust me, they aren't THAT trivial, not from experience at least) but because Marking of the Blessed is redundant for a Warden thanks to Font of Life already allowing you to roll twice a round, and Revitalizing Font of Life requires you to have multiple (save ends) effects on you at the same time, which you likely won't be seeing that early in heroic tier.


"Markings of the Victor", however, he took at 1st level.
Not awful, but Weapon Expertise or a Weapon Proficiency would have likely been a better bet.



So he takes MotV @ 1st level, Weapon Focus & Weapon Expertise, probably a multiclass feat... and then he has 8th and 10th level without any feats jumping out at me. Any ideas?

Well, it depends a lot on what he's multiclassing into. I'd definitely suggest a weapon proficiency, craghammer probably. As well, the Warden has a goodly amount of Thunder and Lightning powers, almost one at every level. While Echoes of Thunder and Oncoming Storm are situational, if most of your powers are thunder or lightning based then the lighting attack, thunder attack, whatever attack combo becomes pretty attractive. This could be optimized further with the use of a Thunder or Lightning weapon of some sort. I'd go with a Lighting weapon (can't recall what these are off the top of my head) and then bulk up on Thunder powers.
Toughness might be nice, though the Earthstrength Warden already has plenty of hitpoints. That extra 5 combined with the Goliath racial ability however... a two-handed weapon might not be out of the question.
Sure Climber or Longjumper might be nice for the sake of utility, combined with the Goliath racial trait that allows them to roll twice when climbing or jumping and few mundane obstacles would slow him down.
If he goes Fighter with his multiclass feat he might want to check out 'Thunder Hammer' from Martial Power. It puts a -2 to saving throws for status effects inflicted with a hammer or mace. Many of the lightning/thunder powers of the Warden have 'dazed (save ends)' in them and many of the others do ongoing damage.


That's about all I can think of right now.

tbarrie
2009-03-25, 01:36 AM
These are of dubious value not because saves are trivialized (trust me, they aren't THAT trivial, not from experience at least) but because Marking of the Blessed is redundant for a Warden thanks to Font of Life already allowing you to roll twice a round, and Revitalizing Font of Life requires you to have multiple (save ends) effects on you at the same time, which you likely won't be seeing that early in heroic tier.


I'd argue that Markings of the Blessed is particularly useful for Wardens, actually. Combined with the Font of Life class feature, you have a high probability (79.75% with no other modifiers) of shrugging off your first save-ends condition before it can affect you at all. That strikes me as much nicer than merely increasing the probabilty that you'll shake off the effect after one turn.

Asbestos
2009-03-25, 03:31 PM
I'd argue that Markings of the Blessed is particularly useful for Wardens, actually. Combined with the Font of Life class feature, you have a high probability (79.75% with no other modifiers) of shrugging off your first save-ends condition before it can affect you at all. That strikes me as much nicer than merely increasing the probabilty that you'll shake off the effect after one turn.

That is true, and something I didn't think of. Markings of the Blessed could make it so the Warden could ignore whatever opening status effect was thrown at him. A stunned, dazed, or immobile defender isn't much of one.