4e- Multiclassing Half-elves

[Asbestos]

The paragon feat from the PHB2 that allows half-elves to take powers from any class when they paragon multiclass AND turns their dilettante power into an at-will opens up a ton of multiclass options for them, so I'm wondering... what's the most powerful thing we can make?

Initially I was thinking about something that exploited CHA, but then you're dealing with odd implements. I think the best bet is to go STR as the primary stat and run with it. I think that something that can combine Warden 'Form of' powers with a stance and a rage would be ideal for novaing a single encounter, but there's just so much out there (especially for the utility powers) that I'm not really sure where to begin.

[Sophismata]

There are some builds that use Avenger and Punisher of the Gods to throw out 1000+ damage per round, oft-times At-Will.

I think a Half-Elf Bard with Daggermaster, Punisher of the Gods, Avenger Multiclass and Barbarian Multiclass (Storm of Blades Encounter 13) could probably put out the most damage.

You're looking at 8 attacks per round (rolling twice for each), 27% crit chance, and every crit is giving you an action point. You also have Twin Strike as backup (dilettante).

[NPCMook]

Could do something with a Strength based Cleric, Paladin, Fighter, Two-weapon ranger, and Warden


There are some builds that use Avenger and Punisher of the Gods to throw out 1000+ damage per round, oft-times At-Will.

I think a Half-Elf Bard with Daggermaster, Punisher of the Gods, Avenger Multiclass and Barbarian Multiclass (Storm of Blades Encounter 13) could probably put out the most damage.

You're looking at 8 attacks per round (rolling twice for each), 27% crit chance, and every crit is giving you an action point. You also have Twin Strike as backup (dilettante).

Post builds or I call Shenanigans

[Sophismata]

Really quick summary, using the Character Builder:

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======
Jack Moat, level 30
Half-Elf, Bard, Daggermaster, Punisher of the Gods
Bardic Virtue: Virtue of Valor
Background: Human - Heir of the Forgotten Gods

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 24, Con 26, Dex 14, Int 12, Wis 13, Cha 13.

Starting Ability Scores
Str 16, Con 16, Dex 12, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 9.


AC: 42 Fort: 39 Reflex: 34 Will: 35
HP: 183 Surges: 15 Surge Value: 45

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana, Perception, Insight, Acrobatics, Athletics, Endurance, Thievery, Religion.

FEATS
1: Ritual Caster
1: Berserker's Fury
2: Improved Initiative
4: Novice Power
6: Human Perseverance
8: Action Surge
10: Wood Elf Agility
11: Sneak of Shadows
12: Versatile Master
14: Two-Weapon Fighting
16: Surprise Knockdown
18: Two-Weapon Opening
20: Devastating Critical
21: Divine Bloodline
22: Triumphant Attack
24: Weapon Expertise (Light Blade)
26: Weapon Focus (Light Blade)
28: Epic Resurgence
30: Danger Sense

POWERS
1, At-Will: Guiding Strike
1, At-Will: Vicious Mockery
1, At-Will: Twin Strike
1, Encounter: Shout of Triumph
1, Daily: Slayer's Song
2, Utility: Song of Courage
3, Encounter: Charger's Call
5, Daily: Tune of Ice and Wind
6, Utility: Ode to Sacrifice
7, Encounter: Scorpion's Claw Strike
9, Daily: Hymn of the Daring Rescue
10, Utility: Word of Life
13, Encounter: Earthquake Strike (retrained to Storm of Blades at Novice Power) (replaces Scorpion's Claw Strike)
15, Daily: Funeral Dirge (replaces Hymn of the Daring Rescue)
16, Utility: Elegy of the Undefeated
17, Encounter: Song of Summons (replaces Charger's Call)
19, Daily: Increasing the Tempo (replaces Tune of Ice and Wind)
22, Utility: Invisible Troupe
23, Encounter: Weal and Woe (replaces Shout of Triumph)
25, Daily: Adversarial Song (replaces Slayer's Song)
27, Encounter: Shout of Triumph (replaces Weal and Woe)
29, Daily: Song of the Deadly Dancer (replaces Adversarial Song)

ITEMS
Ritual Book, Legendary Dagger +6, Versatile Pitmail Armor +6, Cloak of Displacement +6, Bloodiron Dagger +6

RITUALS
Fastidiousness, Brew Potion
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======

[Thanatos 51-50]

Shenanigins.

You cannot take two seperate multiclass feats unless your primary class is Bard.

[NPCMook]

His Primary is bard

Currently looking it over, will post my findings when I'm done

[Thanatos 51-50]

Must have skipped that word in my reading, somehow.

Carry on.

[NPCMook]

I see where he gets the 8 attacks from, Storm of Blades(Level 13 Encounter) allows him to make the attack 1+Con Mod times, Epic Resurgence allows him to replenish a used Encounter Power once an Encounter. and since the one enemy he's going to be doing this on is going to be his Oath of Enmity he will roll the attack twice, if that is the only enemy standing adjacent to him at the time. If he rolls an 18 on one of his two dice, he regains the use of this attack, ON THE FIRST ROLL. Punisher of the Gods allows him to curse an enemy and do max damage with his attack, he gains his Sneak attack damage for one of his attacks, so that's an extra possible 30 damage, in total doing 170 damage... if he rolls well.

This build sucks...

Edit: Max damage possible in 1 round 361, This build still sucks.

[Sophismata]

Forum died on me when I tried to post all the corollary information :(.

It's not on the first roll, every single crit gives you an action point. The first action point gives you another 8 attacks, every other crit after that grants another 8 attacks. Every crit also grants a basic attack (and another 27% chance to crit). All damaged is maximised, and every crit will deal 6d10 (=60) damage, and another 60 damage next round.

A similar build (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1163307), using Pit-fighter and Rending Axe/Reckless Attacker.

Uses crits to fuel basic attacks which fuel more crits, basing it off of Dual Strike and Rain of Blows. 19+ crit range, but higher damage dice. Rending instead of bloodiron.

[NPCMook]

Forum died on me when I tried to post all the corollary information :(.

It's not on the first roll, every single crit gives you an action point. The first action point gives you another 8 attacks, every other crit after that grants another 8 attacks. Every crit also grants a basic attack (and another 27% chance to crit). All damaged is maximised, and every crit will deal 6d10 (=60) damage, and another 60 damage next round.

A similar build (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1163307), using Pit-fighter and Rending Axe/Reckless Attacker.

Uses crits to fuel basic attacks which fuel more crits, basing it off of Dual Strike and Rain of Blows. 19+ crit range, but higher damage dice. Rending instead of bloodiron.

None of your feats, Utility Powers, or Class Features give you extra Action points... Epic Resurgence only works once an Encounter on your first Crit, which technically has to be on your opening attack with Storm of Blades...

As far as I'm concerned this build does not work

EDIT: I stand corrected on the multiple Action points, to bad you can only gain 1 extra action point around since bonuses from the same source do not stack. The build still leaves you lacking in your main role a Leader, and your defenses are much to be laughed at, the 2 level 30 solo monsters do not even have to roll to hit your defenses.

[Sophismata]

EDIT: I stand corrected on the multiple Action points, to bad you can only gain 1 extra action point around since bonuses from the same source do not stack. The build still leaves you lacking in your main role a Leader, and your defenses are much to be laughed at, the 2 level 30 solo monsters do not even have to roll to hit your defenses.

You can gain as many action points a round as you can get crits, because of Immortal Curse (Punisher of the Gods). Each round of attacks has a 92.5% chance to score at least one crit.

For a more serious look, check out the Half-Elf Avenger/Pit Fighter/Punisher build I linked too, which actually has feat and equipment choices optimised.

You can also go Half-Elf/Avenger/(Student of Caiphon or Dagger Master)/Punisher of the Gods, too. I just like the idea of Half-Elf bards.

[NPCMook]

No, you only gain 1 action point till you spend it, Bonuses from the same source DO NOT stack, gaining multiple action points off a crits doesn't work

[Sophismata]

Sigh. Action points are not a named bonus. They don't follow any stacking rules. They have an expenditure rule (1/encounter) that Punisher of the Gods specifically avoids (exception based design).

(The multiple action points is the reason Punisher of the Gods is considered to be broken. The newer CharOp threads specifically mark it as a non-contender, because of the action point silliness. Suggestions include limiting the action points to 1/round, but this is not RAW.)

[NPCMook]

Yes, you are missing the point, the Extra action point is a bonus from a source(Immortals Curse), If you crit twice, you do not gain 2 action points you gain 1, when you spend that action point if you crit, THEN you would gain another. This, of course, doesn't stop you from immediately spending that new action point.

This ultimately ends with a Rule 0; You die, everyone else lives happily

[Sophismata]

Again, I must re-iterate, action points are not 'bonuses'. They do not follow the stacking rules of bonuses. When the game talks about bonuses, it is referring to numerical modifiers only.

Edit: Furthermore, it is penalties from the same source that do not stack, and bonuses of the same *type* that do not stack.

[Kurald Galain]

Just, wow.

If the charop boards consider something cheesy, you know you've really made a mistake somewhere as a game designer :smallbiggrin:

[ocato]

I'm sorry if this is obvious, I don't have access to some stuff but how does a bard use bard powers with 9-13 charisma? Are you substituting strength for charisma in some manner that I am not privy to?

[The Glyphstone]

Yes, you are missing the point, the Extra action point is a bonus from a source(Immortals Curse), If you crit twice, you do not gain 2 action points you gain 1, when you spend that action point if you crit, THEN you would gain another. This, of course, doesn't stop you from immediately spending that new action point.

This ultimately ends with a Rule 0; You die, everyone else lives happily

Isn't this like saying that a healing spell/power cannot heal its target of more than 1 HP at a time, because multiple hit points are a 'bonus' from the same source (Healing Power X)?

[Arbitrarity]

There are some builds that use Avenger and Punisher of the Gods to throw out 1000+ damage per round, oft-times At-Will.

Post builds or I call Shenanigans


This ultimately ends with a Rule 0; You die, everyone else lives happily

So... he gives you something broken, you call for posting of builds, he posts a legit build (albeit so cheesy charop declares it unfair [this implies he's interpreting it right]) and then you say "oh, that's broken! Rule 0, your build doesn't work!"
Lactose intolerance?

[NPCMook]

No, I'm saying its a legitimate that results in the DM using Rule 0, because you are now the person who is going to ruin all the fun for the rest of the group


I'm sorry if this is obvious, I don't have access to some stuff but how does a bard use bard powers with 9-13 charisma? Are you substituting strength for charisma in some manner that I am not privy to?

He's not using his Bard powers, he's relying on rolling an 18+ the first time he uses Storm of Blades to get a Recharge on Storm of Blades via Epic Resurgence, Each time he crits with his Main hand he gains another attack with his off-hand, after his 2 uses of Storm of Blades, he can just simply roll out Twin Strike(if he crits with his main hand he gets another attack with his off-hand) a number of times using his absurd amount of Action points which each time he crits with one of those attacks he gets another action point which he can immediantly spend to continue his assault. Now while him and the DM are marking off all his damage to the enemies the rest of the party leaves out of boredom, or they go and start up a new game without him.

[Oracle_Hunter]

No, I'm saying its a legitimate that results in the DM using Rule 0, because you are now the person who is going to ruin all the fun for the rest of the group

That's true for all broken classes though, isn't it? Unless your DM is running a fully broken game, in which case the build is OK.

[NPCMook]

That's true for all broken classes though, isn't it? Unless your DM is running a fully broken game, in which case the build is OK.

Touchè

FOCL.

[JaxGaret]

Wait a second.... you're telling me that the damage champ in 4e is currently a Half-Elf Bard?

That's kind of awesome, actually.

[NPCMook]

Wait a second.... you're telling me that the damage champ in 4e is currently a Half-Elf Bard?

That's kind of awesome, actually.

Technically Human Bards also