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Darth Stabber
2009-03-25, 03:32 PM
Is there any info out on what future power sources are? So far I see it breaking down like this
Psionics
Controller = Psion
Leader = Ardent
Defender = Psychic Warrior
Striker = Wilder, or the less likely soulknife

Associated Race(s)
Elan, Maenad, Xeph, Dromite, githzerai, githyanki

Ki
Controller = ???Monk
Leader = ???Monk
Defender = Samurai
Striker = Ninja

Associated Race(s)
Buoman, any Oriental Adventures race, Saiyan(FTW)???

Incarnum
Controller = ????
Leader = Incarnate
Defender = Soulborn
Striker = Totemist

Associated Race(s)
Azurin, Duskling, Skarn, Rilkin, Mishtai

Additional classes in existing power sources(porting 3.5 classes)
Knight - martial defender
Swashbuckler - martial and either striker or controller
Duskblade - Arcane Striker (melee)
Shugenja - Either divine or arcane and either Controller or Striker
Wujen - Arcane Controller
Archivist - Divine Leader or controller, without attachment to a church

Thoughts?

NPCMook
2009-03-25, 06:07 PM
Incarnum is unlikely, not a lot of people liked it, Well DM's, though they did have one of the greatest flaws, Anti-Magic Field destroyed all their nice Soulmelds


Monk is most likely a Striker
Wu Jen I don't know about, but it never seemed right as an Arcane, for all we know it could end up being the Ki Leader


You didn't list anything from Shadow, or Elemental

Artanis
2009-03-25, 06:11 PM
The only info I can think of is that there will be Ki, Shadow, Elemental, and Psionic as power sources, and that the Monk will use Ki.

I don't know of anything else.

Kurald Galain
2009-03-25, 06:15 PM
Is there any info out on what future power sources are?

Actually, yes. The four other power sources are psionic, ki, elemental, and shadow. People are unclear as to what, if anything, is the difference between psionic and ki, or between arcane and elemental. But it really doesn't make much of a difference what power source a class belongs to, so in essence this is just WOTC promising they'll print 16-20 more classes.

It is not a given that each power source will have all four roles (after all, martial doesn't have a controller, and arcane has a few duplicates). But it seems likely.

It is very unlikely that they will print more classes in the existing four power source, except one class per "setting book" (of which presumably Dark Sun and Dragonlance are planned for the next few years). Knight and swashbuckler = fighter, duskblade = swordmage, shugenja and wujen = wizard, and archivist = cheese. Most of those aren't archetypes, anyway.

Incarnum is Not Happening. It wasn't that popular in 3E, anyway. Its mechanics will probably appear as e.g. a warlock pact, or something like that.

Races are not, as a rule, associated with any particular power source, because this breaks the design philosophy that (at least in theory) every race/class combination is playable.

Ki is confirmed to be not completely "eastern" in flavor (however they're going to accomplish that). IIRC the monk is confirmed to be a striker (let's face it, controller and leader make little sense for a solo guy who hits people with his fist).

Saiyans are copyrighted (not to mention way off the narrow power scale of D&D). Nice try though :smallbiggrin:

RTGoodman
2009-03-25, 06:25 PM
My bets (and these are almost entirely guesses) are below:


Elemental - may not happen. I thought I remember them saying somewhere that the Sorcerer was probably going to be Elemental, but since it's Arcane, I don't know if Elemental is gonna stick around. I think it's too close to Arcane anyway.


Ki:
Monk - Striker
Samurai - Defender or Leader
Shugenja (?) - Leader
Wu Jen (?) - Controller


Shadow:
Shadowcaster Illusionist - Controller
Ninja (?) - Striker


Psionic:
Psion - Striker or Controller
Psychic Warrior - Defender
Ardent or Divine Mind - Leader
(Possible: Soulknife - Striker)

Kurald Galain
2009-03-25, 06:45 PM
Elemental - may not happen. I thought I remember them saying somewhere that the Sorcerer was probably going to be Elemental
For what it's worth, the sorcerer being elemental was, from the beginning, a guess on the internet. Early on in 4E, WOTC said the sorcerer was to be an arcane leader. He turned out to be a striker, but it was never in doubt that he was to be arcane.

Shadow, by the way, will contain an illusionist (presumably controller) and a necromancer (presumably leader).

RTGoodman
2009-03-25, 06:57 PM
For what it's worth, the sorcerer being elemental was, from the beginning, a guess on the internet. Early on in 4E, WOTC said the sorcerer was to be an arcane leader. He turned out to be a striker, but it was never in doubt that he was to be arcane.

Shadow, by the way, will contain an illusionist (presumably controller) and a necromancer (presumably leader).

I was thinking they said something about Sorcerer being elemental in the Wizards Present: Races and Classes book. It was talking about the Sorcerer casting a fire spell and then being surrounded by protective fire and stuff like that, and how they were to be very elemental-focused. Eh, I could be wrong.

I did forget about Illusionists, though - I'd be willing to be that's the Shadow Controller. (I'm not sure about the Necromancer, though - I figure it'll just be a build option for Wizards in AP or AP2 or something.)

NPCMook
2009-03-25, 07:15 PM
Elemental is probably still in there, PHB 3 with probably be 4 classes from one source, 2 from another and 2 from another, PHB 4 would finish off the set evenly with keeping the same number of classes for each Core set of power sources. 8 classes per book

Edit: Didn't a Dragon Article already cover necromancy? kind of?

shadowmage
2009-03-25, 08:53 PM
Shadow:
Shadowcaster Illusionist - Controller


A base heroic level illusionist was already released in Dragon as a a wizard variant a few months ago. Basically had a couple at wills and then the encounter and dailies up to level 10. So I am not sure they would do it again.

Grynning
2009-03-25, 09:09 PM
Unless the Illusionist Wizard is the other new build to complement the Summoner they've already previewed for Arcane Power.

The "Shadow Illusionist" or whatever will likely be similar but with different flavored powers. Also, they may call it Beguiler to hark back to a 3.5 favorite.

I really hope they don't do an "Elemental" power source - it would be pretty redundant with both Arcane and Primal characters. I know that Elemental has pretty specific connotations in the new 4th ed cosmology, but hopefully they'll come up with something better.

I'd love to see a "Guileful" or "Wits" type power source - Badass Normals (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BadassNormal) like Martial Characters who use their brains.

shadowmage
2009-03-25, 09:42 PM
Elemental power source might be more to do with demons then just the base elementals. I could see a Demon binder class as one using the elemental power source. Not sure how much fluff you could work the demon side of to make it diffrent enough from what is already out though.

RTGoodman
2009-03-25, 11:15 PM
A base heroic level illusionist was already released in Dragon as a a wizard variant a few months ago. Basically had a couple at wills and then the encounter and dailies up to level 10. So I am not sure they would do it again.

Eh, that's just a handful of Illusion powers for the Wizard. It didn't change any class features or anything. The Illusionist was a separate class way back when in the annals of D&D history, right? Whatever they call it, I'm basically thinking the Shadow Controller is gonna be an Illusionist/Beguiler/Shadowcraft Mage-type thing.

Behold_the_Void
2009-03-25, 11:52 PM
Here's a thought.

Elemental:
Earth - Defender
Water - Leader
Fire - Striker
Air - Controller

Completely new classes and whatnot.

TheOOB
2009-03-26, 01:31 AM
Elemental could do all kinds of interesting things. It very well could have a running theme through the classes. I personally would like to see them slowly turn you into elementals.

Darth Stabber
2009-03-26, 07:53 AM
No Incarnum? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! !!!!

*sob*

I need pudding.

*slump*

Okay fine. At least they reprinted Fighter, If i couldn't cut stuff with a sword, I don't know what I'd do.

Artanis
2009-03-26, 08:46 AM
per "setting book" (of which presumably Dark Sun and Dragonlance are planned for the next few years).

I expect Planescape and Spelljammer are in the works as well. At the very least I know they keep mentioning Sigil.

I hope they do have Planescape. I never got a chance to play it or Planescape: Torment.



I was thinking they said something about Sorcerer being elemental in the Wizards Present: Races and Classes book. It was talking about the Sorcerer casting a fire spell and then being surrounded by protective fire and stuff like that, and how they were to be very elemental-focused. Eh, I could be wrong.

I heard about that as well. I remember thinking that it reminded me of DBs from Exalted: if you overdo it, you become walking arson.



Elemental power source might be more to do with demons then just the base elementals. I could see a Demon binder class as one using the elemental power source. Not sure how much fluff you could work the demon side of to make it diffrent enough from what is already out though.

Sounds like the Warlock. They're also already giving the Warlock the 3.5 Binder's "thing" with the new pact in Arcane Power.

Darth Stabber
2009-03-26, 09:11 AM
And actually races pertinent to power sources seem to be confirmed in PHB2. Shifters, Half orcs, and Goliaths all favor primal classes, thus they are printed when primal goes online. So it makes sense that races originally printed to go with psionics would be reserved until that system hits print. Does any one have a prozac, the possible lack of incarnum has left me feeling terrible.

Kurald Galain
2009-03-26, 09:26 AM
Shifters, Half orcs, and Goliaths all favor primal classes

And you base that on, what, exactly?

Half orcs are traditionally martial, and are an archetype of sorts. Shifters and goliaths come from a particular setting that was popular enough to warrant an import into 4E. Mechanically, none of the three is particularly better suited to primal classes in general, nor vice versa.

Darth Stabber
2009-03-26, 09:50 AM
As per 3.5 PHB Half Orc's favored Class = Barbarian. As per 4ePHB2 Barbarian power source = Primal. I don't know what the Goliath or shifter races favored classes were in 3.5 but given that they are pretty much savage humanoids, primal stands to reason. Also 3.5 Gnomes favored class = bard. In 4e Bard and Gnome are both printed in the PHB2. Now can you honestly state that they don't think that certain races have a flavor connection to certain Classes or power sources. Eladrin = Heavy connection to arcane, Dwarves = Heavy connection to divine and martial, Half orc = Heavy connection to primal. So While maybe not a Mechanical connection, there is certainly a flavor connotation. Lack of mechanical connection does not preclude other connections. So I have no doubt that we will see Elans updated to 4e when psionics makes it's entrance.

Artanis
2009-03-26, 09:53 AM
And actually races pertinent to power sources seem to be confirmed in PHB2. Shifters, Half orcs, and Goliaths all favor primal classes, thus they are printed when primal goes online. So it makes sense that races originally printed to go with psionics would be reserved until that system hits print. Does any one have a prozac, the possible lack of incarnum has left me feeling terrible.
Races don't go with power sources. They may go well with particular classes that happen to go with a certain power source, but that doesn't mean they go with that power source.

Fixer
2009-03-26, 11:03 AM
Incarnum is unlikely, not a lot of people liked it, Well DM's, though they did have one of the greatest flaws, Anti-Magic Field destroyed all their nice SoulmeldsJust for the record, Anti-Magic shells don't destroy soulmelds. They suppress them. The soulmelds return once the effect ends.

Blackfang108
2009-03-26, 12:02 PM
Monk is confirmed as a Ki Striker. The rest of this is my guess/hope

Ki:
Monk - Striker (Confirmed by WotC)
[others]

Shadow:
Duskblade - Defender, absorbs some of Hexblade
Shadowcaster - Controller
Ninja - Striker

Elemental:
Wu Jen/ Sh... Whatever it was, can't spell it - Controller
Captain Planet - Leader

Psionic:

Psion: Controller
Soulknife: Striker (With soulbow as a PrC. All melee attacks become ranged?)
Hivemind: Leader
Ironmind: Defender

Spiral: (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TengenToppaGurrenLagann)

And now i'm getting silly