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Human Paragon 3
2009-03-26, 01:28 AM
What prestige class have you always been intrigued by, but never able to actually utilize effectively in a build?

Zaq
2009-03-26, 02:08 AM
Master of Masks, Complete Scoundrel. Awesome fluff, moderate-to-weak abilities, and clashed with my Chameleon (I can only take one class per level, after all, and Chameleon is simply better).

Daggerspell Mage, Complete Adventurer. I love twin dagger users (particularly twin katars... let's face it, katars are daggers in almost every way that matters, except you can't throw them. This is made up for by the fact that they are awesome.), and the ability to mix that with casting seems useful. Never been able to make it work, though, as there's just not a whole lot that it actually does.

Alchemist Savant, Magic of Eberron. There's nothing about it I can't "make" work, I've just never had an opportunity to do so.

Combat Trapsmith, Complete Scoundrel. Again, simply never had an opportunity to use one, and also never really been in an environment in which they would be appropriate.

Noctumancer, Tome of Magic. Yay for counterspelling! The problem, of course, is that it requires a really high level (I've never played above level... 8? I think that game might have hit level 9. And that was only once.), has all the problems your normal theurge classes have, and just doesn't gain enough from shadow magic (which I also love, but don't think I'll ever actually use).

Dirgesinger, Libris Mortis. Bard? Cool. Spooky bard? Cooler. Silly Goth spooky bard? Very cool. Silly Goth spooky bard with fear effects and undead mastery? Awesome. Silly Goth spooky bard with fear effects and undead mastery that sacrifices skills AND bardic music advancement AND spellcasting? Not very awesome.

Seeker of the Song, Complete Arcane. I love using bardic music for new effects, but 1) it has crazy high entry requirements and 2) the effects aren't actually as good as they look. Or even close, for that matter.

Mikeavelli
2009-03-26, 02:21 AM
Seconded on the combat Trapsmith, I've always wanted to run one, but never had the chance.

Also, the set traps with set DC's really bring down the class, since you could accomplish most of what they do as a Wizard, and be better at it.

Effigy Master. I like the idea of having a robot thingie at my beck and call. never found a way to make it work, though.

I made a Master of Masks NPC once; was already planning on running with the Mask motif, and found the prestige class that worked perfectly with it. Would never actually use it in a character I'm playing though.

I must confess to being one of those people that wants to run a Soulknife, mostly because I think the class is cool as hell. Too bad it sucks so much.

sonofzeal
2009-03-26, 02:24 AM
It's a shame, but nearly all of the "Down One Tier (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107618)" prestige classes are crying out for a solid build. I have to say though, out of all the ones I've reviewed, the one that's really stuck out for me the most is the Death Delver from Heroes of Horror. The capstone is the ability to not die the first nine times you should. Instead you go to -1 and stable... and it grants Diehard as a bonus feat. Insanity.

Champion of Gwynharwyf, Soulbow, Dervish, Jaunter, and the psionic Mindspy from CAdv (not the horrible non-psionic CWar one) are all intriguing as well.

HeavySleeper
2009-03-26, 02:48 AM
I'll second Death Delver. Everything a capstone should be.

Witch Slayer is another neat one that I've just never been able to find a place for. Another very neat capstone.

Entropomancer. Shards of nothing? Sign me up. Only half spellcasting? Not so much. Why do all the flavorful spellcasting prestige classes suck so much?

Tenebrous Apostate. Never really had the chance. Scion of Dantalion too.

Arcane_Snowman
2009-03-26, 03:49 AM
Entropomancer. Shards of nothing? Sign me up. Only half spellcasting? Not so much. Why do all the flavorful spellcasting prestige classes suck so much? I think this is one of the particular times where a Ur-Priest could actually be both mechanically a good (not horribly broken) assisting hand and awesome flavor, I did the same as DM for a friend who wanted to be a Black Flame Zealot.

arguskos
2009-03-26, 03:50 AM
Entropomancer, Death Delver, Alchemist Savant, and Effigy Master all make me smile somewhat.

On top of those, I'd like to toss some others into the fray:

-Techpriest of Gond: Because you get to have your very own walking robot. DOES WANT!

-Magelord: The power to spontaneously convert anything and everything you have into any spell you have Mastered is so awesome, I am a huge fan.

-Sunlord: I just love the flavor of it.

I'm sure there are dozens of other ones (oooh, Tainted Scholar! That's a great one that I just never got the chance to use >_<), but I'm TIIIRED so I can't think of them right now.

ShadowFighter15
2009-03-26, 04:00 AM
Entropomancer, Death Delver, Alchemist Savant, and Effigy Master all make me smile somewhat.

On top of those, I'd like to toss some others into the fray:

-Techpriest of Gond: Because you get to have your very own walking robot. DOES WANT!

-Magelord: The power to spontaneously convert anything and everything you have into any spell you have Mastered is so awesome, I am a huge fan.

-Sunlord: I just love the flavor of it.

I'm sure there are dozens of other ones (oooh, Tainted Scholar! That's a great one that I just never got the chance to use >_<), but I'm TIIIRED so I can't think of them right now.

Which book's the Techpriest of Gond in?

I haven't used any PrCs so far, but I imagine that the Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil would be one. Mainly because I consider "utilise effectively in a build" to include the clause "must not be overly cheesy", which (so I've heard at least) the IotSV is.

VelvetThunder
2009-03-26, 05:37 AM
I've always wanted to run a Fleshwarper. Nobody ever uses Grafts in our campaigns.

Tam_OConnor
2009-03-26, 06:19 AM
Techsmith (of Gond), apparently. Silly names. It's in Faiths and Pantheons, the Forgotten Realms deity handbook.

I've always wanted to do an Arcane Archer. But I am a slave to mechanical superiority...

I've wanted to run a Beholder Mage, if only to say I had.

Tattooed Monk flavor: awesome. Application: less than awesome. Still not bad, but disappointing.

Stephen_E
2009-03-26, 06:59 AM
Beastmaster - I've 1 lev dipped but I've never seen a way to make it work given the way the designer poked it so badly.

Stephen E

Darth Stabber
2009-03-26, 07:31 AM
Duelist - I've had the opportunity, but never followed through, I just can't let my character suck so bad.

Bear Warrior - I get so angry that I turn into a bear, made of cool and angry.

True Necromancer - Was getting ready to play one when Heroes of Horror came out. So yeah, My prc was invalidated by the awesomeness of one base class.

War weaver - My last specialist transmuter had craft(weaving) loaded up ready to go. Just never got around to taking the class(to busy Master Specialist).

Green star metal adept - who doesn't want to turn into a robot.

Arcane_Snowman
2009-03-26, 07:40 AM
Bear Warrior - I get so angry that I turn into a bear, made of cool and angry. I suggest going with an amalgamation of a lot of different things, my most awesome usage of the Bear Warrior to date is this:
Silverbrow Human
Ranger 1/Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Totemist 3/Horizon Walker 1/Totem Rager 7/Bear Warrior 1/Warshaper 2/Frenzied Berserker 5.

You like being an angry bear? How about a super angry bear with six limbs and a draconic tail? :smallbiggrin:

Darth Stabber
2009-03-26, 09:02 AM
I've dipped 1 lvl of it before, But I would like to play out all 10 sometime. In my 1 lvl builds it is a great option given it's easy requirements, then take lvl 1 of warshaper and be immune to crits and precision damage.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-03-26, 01:32 PM
Blood Magus. So cool, so flavorful, so many lost caster levels.
Wildmage. Fatespinner does it better.
Ur-Priest. Too powerful for most campaigns, and must be Evil besides. I would love going with a CG Misotheist in Faerun.

Tam_OConnor
2009-03-26, 01:55 PM
Ooo, I'd forgotten about the awesome flavor of the Blood Magus. I've been wanting to play that class since Tome and Blood. And besides that, the Candle Mage on the page after that was shiny too. It's a pity all the unique item crafter types are so pathetic. I curse the Artificer on general principle! :smalltongue:

GoC
2009-03-26, 03:41 PM
I've always liked IotSV and Effigy Master. Sadly, both are unplayable.:smallfrown:

Person_Man
2009-03-26, 04:19 PM
Master of Masks, Complete Scoundrel. Awesome fluff, moderate-to-weak abilities, and clashed with my Chameleon (I can only take one class per level, after all, and Chameleon is simply better).

Master of Masks can be awesome (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88633). Of course, that build only uses a one level dip. But I can't think of any other PrC that grants you access to every Exotic Weapon. I've also found that a strait Whatever 5/Master of Masks X can make a great reoccurring BBEG (every time the PCs fight him, he does something different!). Although comparatively weak, as a DM you can make it do all sorts of cool things by just giving him excellent stats, bumping his levels up, and maybe adding a template.

Similarly, a one level dip into Bear Warrior is just plain awesome for mid level melee builds. Something like Barbarian 1/Fighter 2/Half Orc Paragon 3/Bear Warrior 1 with Extra Rage rocks at that ECL. From there you can pick up levels of Frost Rager or War Shaper to improve further.

Zherog
2009-03-26, 04:38 PM
I'm drawing a blank on names - hey, I'm old! - but there's a bunch o' prestige classes scattered all throughout the books that have amazingly awesome flavor and cool abilities... and only grant spellcasting every other level.

That's a deal breaker for me. If I'm playing a caster (whether arcane or divine), I'm not giving up spellcasting progression, no matter how cool the flavor.

MeklorIlavator
2009-03-26, 04:39 PM
Pretty much every ToB PrC except the Ruby Knight Vinicator and possibly Shadow Sun Ninja(played the first, and might be doing the second if we get to a high enough level).

The enlightened spirit is a really cool idea, but the execution blows hard, and the flavor is easily retained by a normal Warlock, or at the most a Warlock/Cleric.

Besides that, there are a couple bard and gish PrC's that I've never got the chance to do, but nothing really springs to mind.

Dhavaer
2009-03-26, 04:46 PM
Teflammar Shadowlord. I can't think of what stopped me, something about the requirements, I think.

Chronos
2009-03-27, 11:09 PM
Noctumancer, Tome of Magic. Yay for counterspelling! The problem, of course, is that it requires a really high level (I've never played above level... 8? I think that game might have hit level 9. And that was only once.), has all the problems your normal theurge classes have, and just doesn't gain enough from shadow magic (which I also love, but don't think I'll ever actually use).Noctumancer does have one advantage over most theurge classes: You can eventually get away with only one level "lost" to your "other class" (without resorting to cheese like Precocious Apprentice). Once you're started on the PrC, you can take some more Shadowcaster levels and use the Path of Shadow ability to re-train your wizard levels into more shadowcaster. So at ECL 7, you're a Shadowcaster 3/ Wizard 3/Noctumancer 1, but by ECL 18, you're a Shadowcaster 7/Wizard 1/Noctumancer 10.


I must confess to being one of those people that wants to run a Soulknife, mostly because I think the class is cool as hell. Too bad it sucks so much.If you want to play a Soulknife, then what you do is take Psionic Warrior, or Duskblade, or a Tome of Battle class, or anything at all other than Soulknife, and then you pick up the feat Shape Soulmeld: Incarnate Weapon from Magic of Incarnum. There, now you can make a sword formed out of the substance of your very soul, while still not sucking.

Alleine
2009-03-28, 02:00 AM
I've always wanted to run a Fleshwarper. Nobody ever uses Grafts in our campaigns.

This. So much this. My only problem is that I don't know if I would have the time for the crafting, or if anyone would pay any attention to all the fluff I put on the character.

Half of the PrC's in Faiths and Pantheons. Some of them look so cool and flavorful, but I can't think of how they would really work.

Book Wyrm
2009-03-28, 02:37 AM
Drunken Master: So much flavor, yet suffers a lot of the same problems normal monks do.

Iaijutsu Master: Technically 3.0 material which tends to hold it back, but a one or two level dip in this class is simply amazing. Combine with Factotum and Warblade for pure awesomeness.

Paul H
2009-03-28, 08:32 PM
Hi

Rainbow Servant.

Six levels of Warmage or Beguiler, then 10 levels of Rainbow Servant. Entire Cleric spell lists added to your spont casting class. (Plus Domain powers/spells of Air, Good & Law).

What I call a 'Spell Arsenal'.......... :smallbiggrin:

Cheers
Paul H

dyslexicfaser
2009-03-28, 10:57 PM
I really wanted Beast Heart Adept to be worth it. But it's just not very good, and doesn't synergize with anything that I've ever found.

Rage Mage, because I like the name.

Fochlucan Lyricist (kind of a druid/bard thing) is tricky to use well, I think.

Draken
2009-03-28, 11:08 PM
Went fishing for some prestige classes the other day and found the Scion of Dandalion to be very, vey interesting. Could make an interesting combo with Mindspy even, I guess.

That said.

Master Transmogrifist.

Not hard to play per see. But I never had the chance really.

Gerbah
2009-03-29, 11:48 PM
I wanted to give the Thief-Acrobat (Complete Adventurer I think) a try, and was working towards it but didn't... Sounds way too fun though, simply because I'd spend time jumping/tumbling/climbing everywhere.

Also want to try a Dracolexi, they sounded fairly interesting. And the Seeker of the Song as well.

One I'm going to give a try pretty soon is the Enlightened Fist, which always sounded really awesome to me (particularly because I love the Spellsword, even though it's kinda "meh").

Oh, and for anyone who wants to try an Effigy Master: They're sweet, play one. I had a Kobold Sorcerer/Effigy Master who took the Landlord feat (or something) and started building a castle. He used a Silver Dragon for his effigy, which was rather awesome, plus I was able to take cover in it's wings if enemies got too close. He saw a fair amount of play, but the group only succeeded in leveling the original castle (through gratuitous use of Fireballs, stone to mud, etc.) and building the first level of the new one.

ShadowFighter15
2009-03-30, 12:28 AM
Thought of another PrC I'd want to try, but that's probably more work than it's worth: the Dragonrider from Draconomican. It looks cool, but then there's the problem of actually getting a dragon to ride.

Thurbane
2009-03-30, 01:16 AM
Fochlucan Lyricist, to recapture the "glory days" of the 1E Bard. I really hope to get to run or DM one someday...

Pramxnim
2009-03-30, 05:34 AM
Pretty much any and all homebrew PrCs that I can get my grubby paws on. I find a lot of them interesting but have never been able to use one in a real game effectively (sigh). Other than that...

I've wanted to play a Master of Many Forms (from CAdv)
Abjurant Champion from Complete Mage
Suel Arcanamach from the same book
Master Specialist, ditto
Initiate of the Sevenfold Veils, Complete Arcane
Warshaper (Complete Warrior)

and many more...

Swooper
2009-03-30, 06:13 AM
The only one that immediately springs to mind is War Mind. It's pretty awesome in all respects, except that it's got it's own manifesting progression. Why can't it just advance psywar manifesting? It'd make everything so much simpler... :smallannoyed:

ShadowFighter15
2009-03-30, 06:55 AM
I've wanted to play a Master of Many Forms (from CAdv)

What's the general opinion on a MoMF? Any good, or potentially horribly broken?

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-03-30, 07:46 AM
What's the general opinion on a MoMF? Any good, or potentially horribly broken?Very good, it's a great boost in power to any Wildshaper. However, it is still weaker than going Druid 20. :smallwink:

Ascension
2009-03-30, 08:04 AM
As I say whenever these threads come up, Fochlucan Lyrist. If it didn't have the Evasion requirement it would be workable, but that just kills it.

ShadowFighter15
2009-03-30, 05:08 PM
Very good, it's a great boost in power to any Wildshaper. However, it is still weaker than going Druid 20. :smallwink:

What isn't weaker than a Druid 20? The term Druidzilla exists for a reason, after all.

Eldariel
2009-03-30, 05:23 PM
What isn't weaker than a Druid 20? The term Druidzilla exists for a reason, after all.

Why ask questions if you know the answer?

ShadowFighter15
2009-03-30, 05:31 PM
Why ask questions if you know the answer?

Well I knew a MoMF would be weaker than a pure druid, but that was all I knew about their effectiveness (which doesn't tell me a whole lot).

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-03-30, 05:54 PM
Well I knew a MoMF would be weaker than a pure druid, but that was all I knew about their effectiveness (which doesn't tell me a whole lot).If you want to be a shapechanger, it's fairly good, especially combined with Warshaper/Natures Warrior/more Druid. In fact, it's much closer to balanced than most of D&D.

Glimbur
2009-03-30, 05:58 PM
There's a variant to the Ranger that gives up Fighting Styles for Fast Movement like a Barbarian... and Wild Shape like a Druid. Only drawback is you only get Small or Medium forms... which is fine because Master of Many Forms explicitly gives you larger sizes. Throw in Nature's Warrior and/or Warshaper to taste, and serve.

Khatoblepas
2009-03-30, 06:09 PM
What isn't weaker than a Druid 20? The term Druidzilla exists for a reason, after all.

Druid 10/Planar Shepherd 10

Which I want to play. Seriously, nothing says "I AM A FREAKING GOD" like that combo. I'd even play it really low key, too. x3 Only break out the awesome when I really have to, not like, every battle.

Ragescarred Berserkers are another one I'd like to be able to play. They have Scribe Scroll.... on their skin.

Ooooh, I'd also like to play an Orc Warlord. Mmmm. Adding Crusader is like, the leading man of the century. And Rage at will means awesome happens.

Maybe Savage Divine Bard 3/Crusader 3/Orc Warlord 5/Crusader +9 .
"At 2nd level, the orc warlord gains the ability to inspire courage, which has the same effect as the bardic ability of the same name."
Perhaps stuff that boosts Inspire Courage boosts this? It's pretty much at will, too. Grab Inspirational Boost and Harmony, and other such things (Crystal Harmonizing Echo-AXE!) and you got yourself a deal :3.

AND loads of followers. I love followers!

Waspinator
2009-03-30, 07:37 PM
If you want to play a Soulknife, then what you do is take Psionic Warrior, or Duskblade, or a Tome of Battle class, or anything at all other than Soulknife, and then you pick up the feat Shape Soulmeld: Incarnate Weapon from Magic of Incarnum. There, now you can make a sword formed out of the substance of your very soul, while still not sucking.

Also, Soulbound Weapon:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a

Or just be a Psychic Warrior with Claws of the Beast:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/clawsoftheBeast.htm

Seriously, it's sad that they made an entire class around the concept of "summon a cool weapon" when it's possible to do it is a mere side feature with other classes.

Ernir
2009-03-30, 08:41 PM
Mindbender. "Your brain is my playground!" is cool. Half caster level progression is not. :smallfrown:

Thurbane
2009-03-30, 09:15 PM
...actually, add to my selection, the Legacy Weapon PrC and basically all the WoL rules. Great in theory, great fluff, very poorly executed. You just give up too much to make it worthwhile...

RebelRogue
2009-03-30, 09:48 PM
Master of Masks can be awesome (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88633). Of course, that build only uses a one level dip. But I can't think of any other PrC that grants you access to every Exotic Weapon.
A fellow player in one of my current campaigns utilises this. He's get a wide array of weird exotic weapons laying around (though not as impressive as the list in the link. I might just show it to him).

BTW we do joke a lot about him putting on weird masks at more or less inappropriate times...

Waspinator
2009-03-30, 10:36 PM
...actually, add to my selection, the Legacy Weapon PrC and basically all the WoL rules. Great in theory, great fluff, very poorly executed. You just give up too much to make it worthwhile...

A good point. Weapons of Legacy have awesome fluff but poor mechanics. You're better off just giving them less loot and have the sword upgrade itself periodically at dramatic moments.