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Darth Stabber
2009-03-30, 07:52 AM
So Wizards now seem to be good at AC since INT became an AC stat. So how do I max a wizard out for AC (lvl 3).

Thoughts so Far
A)Maximize INT - Well if you are playing a wizard you should do it any way
B)Staff of Defence - +1 ac, a temporary ac boosting encounter ability, and I get it free with class, yes.
C)Leather armor Proficiency - One feat = 2 ac
D)Defensive Mobility - 2 ac against opportunity attacks, well since my class abilities provoke not a bad call.
E)Shield prof - 1ac for one feat, not so good, but it works

What would be a decent AC focused build for lvl 3

Tengu_temp
2009-03-30, 08:04 AM
If you have 13 strength and constitution (which you need for Light Shield Proficiency anyway), replace Defensive Mobility with Hide Armor Proficiency for extra 1 AC - in most cases you just need to shift away to avoid taking opportunity attacks to the face. 1 AC always > 2 AC in very specific cases.



A)Maximize INT - Well if you are playing a wizard you should do it any way


Actually, in most cases base 18 in a stat costs too many points.

V'icternus
2009-03-30, 08:10 AM
Also, you can't wield a staff with a shield anyway... using a shield takes up one hand, and staffs need both. So yeah, better armour would be better than a shield. It's possible to get AC 20 (or close to it) with this sort of build.

Mando Knight
2009-03-30, 10:33 AM
More points, which mostly come into effect in the Paragon tier:
-Use the Wizard of the Spiral Tower Paragon Path. Making a longsword emulate a staff is a good thing (you can wear a shield in the other hand while benefiting from your Staff Sword of Defense), and gives you some extra choices when caught in melee. It has two Weapon vs. Will attacks, one of which is Intelligence +4 vs. Will in a close burst.
-Be an Eladrin. This lets you take the Spiral Tower Paragon Path without expending extra feats.
-MC into Swordmage. Once a day, encounter-long +3 AC is good, but you'd need Spiral Tower in order to use your sword as an implement for Wizard powers.

Kurald Galain
2009-03-30, 10:42 AM
Also, you can't wield a staff with a shield anyway... using a shield takes up one hand, and staffs need both.
Actually, you can. Using a staff as a weapon requires two hands, using a staff as an implement requires only one.

So wield whatever implement you care to name in your primary hand, equip a shield on your off-hand, and wield a Defensive Staff (from AV) in your off-hand, since that still lets you use the property thereof.

This also means you don't need Spiral Tower; if you want melee powers, just take Thunderwave.

Halflings also get a good defensive bonus.

Asbestos
2009-03-30, 11:38 AM
So wield whatever implement you care to name in your primary hand, equip a shield on your off-hand, and wield a Defensive Staff (from AV) in your off-hand, since that still lets you use the property thereof.


Except you can't wield things in your off-hand then, you can only hold them. And only if its a light shield.

Oracle_Hunter
2009-03-30, 01:08 PM
Yeah, I've never seen a RAW argument for the whole "implements only need one hand to wield" argument. Kurald, do you have sources?

Anyhoo, the Dwarven Staff Wizard is still your best bet. He can't use a shield, but he can get a +3 AC 1/EN, and with Shield he can get +4 AC & Reflex 1/EN (till the start of his next turn). Plus, when he reaches Paragon, he can Specialize in Hide for another +1 AC. Throw in Thunderwave (and at least a WIS 12) and he won't take all that many AC attacks, thanks to push-and-hide tactics.

For extra lulz, take Barkskin Hide to get another +2 AC 1/Day. Between Staff of Defense and Shield, you can keep that extra +2 for a long time :smalltongue:

Douglas
2009-03-30, 01:23 PM
I don't have my books to check right now, but I remember one of the things on the Known Issues list for the character builder saying that it's a bug that the character builder doesn't let you use a staff as an implement in one hand.

Edit: Dug up the link. "Staff Implement can't be used one handed" is on the Known Issues List (http://wizards.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wizards.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1543) for the character builder. Its presence on that list indicates that this is considered incorrect and staff implements should be usable one handed.

NPCMook
2009-03-30, 07:33 PM
I've done the Math, and before PHB 2, the Wizard could have the highest AC end game, Swordmage I believe holds the highest now, with Avenger, and Barbarian pretty close behind him(I haven't done the math recently.

Staff Implement Mastery, Staff Fighting Feat, Two-Weapon Defense*, Hide Armor Proficiency, Hide Armor Specialization, that should put you at a pretty high AC.

This is one of the issues one of the other players in my group has, the Wizard has about the same AC he does, he's a paladin in Plate with a 25, while the wizard is sitting at 23

Dhavaer
2009-03-30, 07:37 PM
I've done the Math, and before PHB 2, the Wizard could have the highest AC end game, Swordmage I believe holds the highest now, with Avenger, and Barbarian pretty close behind him(I haven't done the math recently.

Really? Barbarian? I understood Barbarians had a very low AC. :smallconfused:

NPCMook
2009-03-30, 07:48 PM
Depends on how you build your Barbarian, I guess, I could be wrong, I haven't done the math in awhile

Edit: Read Staff Fighting incorrectly, it only seems to work for Quarterstaves, not the Staff Implement, and since you can't use a Quarterstaff as an implement its pointless to take

Mando Knight
2009-03-30, 08:35 PM
Edit: Read Staff Fighting incorrectly, it only seems to work for Quarterstaves, not the Staff Implement, and since you can't use a Quarterstaff as an implement its pointless to take

Wrong. Staffs, page 240 of the PHB 1:
Unlike other implements, a staff also functions as a melee weapon (treat it as a quarterstaff).
(Emphasis mine)
Since it is treated as a quarterstaff, it can be used with Staff Fighting.

NPCMook
2009-03-30, 09:42 PM
And I call myself a Rules Lawyer... :smallfrown:

Personally if you are going to go for High AC, go with either Str/Int, or Con/Int Race, you will need 13 wisdom, but you'll need at least 15 Con and Str to get Hide Armor Specialization, You will also need 13 Dex for Two-Weapon Defense(among also getting Two-Weapon Fighting), Defensive Mobility also helps if you are going to be a casting in Melee, Blade Initiate gets you a +1(+3 if you have a free hand).

Kurald Galain
2009-03-31, 05:52 AM
I don't have my books to check right now, but I remember one of the things on the Known Issues list for the character builder saying that it's a bug that the character builder doesn't let you use a staff as an implement in one hand.
From a rules perspective, implements are never specified as being two-handed, and therefore they're not. From a realistic perspective, it's a piece of wood. Of course you can hold it in one hand. For that matter, every single illustration I could find of a 4E staff wizard wields it in one hand.

Note that if a staff were a two-handed implement, halfling wizards would be unable to use staves. It goes against the spirit of 4E to bar a particular race/class option from a significant part of that class's features.