Monk build

[Ladorak]

Ok playground I need a little help with this one...

Thanks to my overly large mouth and someone who needs a bit of a showing up I have to build a really kickass monk. Not a major problem really... Were it not for the fact the only books that are in are core and the complete series (No fanged ring:smallannoyed:). I do have a lot of leeway in choosing races from MM 'cos the DM also wants to see this guy taken down a peg.

Level 10, 25 point buy, 49,000 starting gold.

At the moment I'm thinking something along the lines of:

Either Hound Archon or Doppelgänger (LA 4 or 5), pick improved grapple and improved natural attack as creature feats, take one level of monk and then immediatly go into tattooed monk. Take three levels of that to get Crab (For damage reduction) and Chameleon (Alter self). Then go into warshaper.

Hound Archon: Monk
Tattooed monk
Tattooed monk
Tattooed monk
Warshaper

Doppelganger: Monk
Tattooed monk
Tattooed monk
Tattooed monk
Warshaper
Warshaper

With a monk belt that means he's doing 1D10 damage, 2D8 with im. natural attack, 3D8 with warshaper.
Or once a day Alter self to turn large doing 2D8 so 3D8, 4D8 with warshaper

It's ok but can it be better? Anyone?

[Douglas]

You're forgetting that racial hit dice count towards ECL in addition to level adjustment. Your hound archon is ECL 11 before you even add the Monk level, and is therefore completely off limits for this. The doppelganger starts at ECL 8 and only has room for the Monk level and one level of Tattooed Monk.

[Ladorak]

*Tuts* I fear you may be right.

So it's changling or nothing then...

[Eldariel]

Does it have to be a straight Monk? Two levels of Monk into Barbarian makes for a nice Bear Warrior-entry, which is quite decent. Then 25pb... Oh my God, you're making a Monk. 25pb means you should just screw the whole "Wis to AC"-crap and wear an armor :S

The best "Monkish" class from those books is really Sacred Fist, so go either Monk 2/Cleric 3/Sacred Fist 5, or more likely Monk 1/Cleric 4/Sacred Fist 5 if you want a "Monk", but even then, it's gonna suck with a 25pb unless you screw the Monk-abilities. Strapping on a Full-Plate would work, but not with the "Monk"-crap.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

The problem with this plan is that Monks suck. That said, what is he playing? The more we know, the more effective we can make your build for this one situation. See if you can grab anything else in terms of books(Fist of the Forest, Snap Kick, Superior Unarmed Strike). In general, though, go with Improved Natural Attack and a Monk's Belt first. Grab a Large race with LA of as little as possible. Assuming you snag one of the +1 LA ones, at ECL 10 you've got 4d6 damage. Work in at least one level of PsyWar and Practiced Manifester for 6d6 damage per hit. Alternatively, Mighty Wallop or the Greater version(CArc, IIRC) are a great investment as a magic item.

Of course, an Eversmoking bottle and maxed UMD always works. :smallwink:

[Ladorak]

Believe me I know Monks suck, that's kinda why this is meant to be a challenge... Point to prove and all that.

It's not really a question of what books I can grab, I have ToB, Rces of Stone, Wild Destiny etc etc... They're just not in. it's all the psionic's fault, DM quickly became very sceptical of any book he doesn't own. This self same Psionic is also the guy I wanna prove wrong. So it's core, MM1-5 and complete series and that's it.

Frankly I'm about to give up on the whole concept and just admit that without another couple supliments Monks are basically unplayable...

[Sstoopidtallkid]

What's he playing? And is SRD core? Because there is a lot in the SRD that helps. And is there any way to boost your pt buy? 25 is about the lowest you can go with even a spellcaster, let alone a Monk which really wants more than 32.

[Person_Man]

What exactly are your build goals and books allowed?

Keep in mind that anything involving racial hit dice is going to be very difficult to build around, because they're essentially empty. LA is also almost always a bad idea, with the exception of a few templates (Mineral Warrior, Feral, Necropolitan, Saint) which tend to be overpowered.

[Eldariel]

Really, the best you'll get is Monk 1/Druid 9. But need to know how much "Monk" you have to have to be a Monk before working anything out. And what do you need to beat?

[Atsu333]

I didn't want to create a new thread for just this, and it seems to fit a little bit, so is there a guide somewhere to the unarmed swordsage? I'm not too good with the ToB.

[Eldariel]

I didn't want to create a new thread for just this, and it seems to fit a little bit, so is there a guide somewhere to the unarmed swordsage? I'm not too good with the ToB.

Unarmed Damage Increases (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=332596)
Tome of Battle for Dummies (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=956362)

Sadly, no handbooks exist for any of the ToB-classes as they're that open and don't really need one - you can't screw up no matter how you build it. But those two should help you along.

[BlueWizard]

Go Thri-Kreen with all those arms.

[Darrin]

So it's core, MM1-5 and complete series and that's it.


Does core include the SRD? A lockdown tripper might work, if you can use Stand Still and the non-errata version of Knockdown.

If your opponent doesn't have access or forgets to get ahold of Freedom of Movement, a grapple build could also work. Is this for some kind of one-on-one arena fight. You said this braggart is big on psionics, do you just need a psion-killer?.

Hmm. What else am I missing... Touch of Golden Ice (BoED) is out. Wildshape monk is out. Druid or Wildshape Ranger might be available, and then maybe MoMF, but unfortunately I think 20-headed cryohydras are out.

Aha, maybe the Tauric template? Load up the bottom half with a bunch of templates, stick something humanoid on top. Maybe a medium centipede + kobold (for the natural attacks).

[Telonius]

Level 10 specifically...
Fractional BAB would help out tremendously. Then Eldariel's progressions would work. If not, you need to wait until level 6 to start taking Sacred Fist.

Human
Ranger1/Monk1/Clr4/Sacred Fist4

Rgr1: Combat Casting, Combat Reflexes, Favored Enemy (annoying psionics).
Rgr1/Mnk1: Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist
Rgr1/Mnk1/Clr1: Extra Stunning
Rgr1/Mnk1/Clr4: Pain Touch
Rgr1/Mnk1/Clr4/SF3: Improved Grapple

On your first round, cast Magic Circle Against Evil, no matter what the other guy does.

Second, the barrier blocks any attempt to possess the warded creature (by a magic jar attack, for example) or to exercise mental control over the creature (including enchantment (charm) effects and enchantment (compulsion) effects that grant the caster ongoing control over the subject, such as dominate person). The protection does not prevent such effects from targeting the protected creature, but it suppresses the effect for the duration of the protection from evil effect.
(Bold added)

Blocks, period, no save, sorry. If he's concentrated in Telepathy, he is royally screwed. (It would help a lot to know precisely what sort of a psionic character he's playing, but this is a good idea against any psionic character regardless).

For equipment, be sure to invest in some alchemical equipment (tanglefoot bags, alchemist's fire, etc), a means of flight, and some 1/day items (freedom of movement, etc). I wouldn't worry all that much about AC in this particular instance, so feel free to boost STR higher than WIS.

Also, ask your DM just how strict the "no weapons" policy of Sacred Fist might be. Would sling and bullets be okay? Having some sort of ranged attack would be very advantageous.