BBC News - " EA 'dumps DRM' for next Sims game"

[Tom_Violence]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7972677.stm

Dunno if this is old news or not (I've been fairly out of touch recently), and I know its still fairly uncool to admit liking, or even taking an interest in, a Sims game but I won't deny that I gave a little whoop of joy upon reading this particular tale, as hopefully it represents a change in EA's stance overall.

So what's the general opinion? I'm aware that there are some people here who utterly despise DRM, and there are others whose opinion could perhaps best be described as "What's all the fuss about?" Who's happy to see it go? Anyone not? Surely at least even those who don't much care either way would be grateful that an end to the subject might be in sight.

Discuss?!

[toasty]

I'm happy. I'm firmly against the DRM that was included on Spore (and in fact did not get it for my sister because of it). I was all for people pirating that game simply as a form of protest (IE look your DRM doesn't work! get rid of it!).

I also didn't buy RA3 because of the DRM included on it. And believe me, it takes a lot to get me away from an C&C game seeing as RA was the first real computer game that I played.

The fact that the Sims 3 wont be having a DRM makes me reconsider getting it (for my sister!).

[Studoku]

Assuming this is not an April fools joke, this merits a victory spin*.

*Swivel chairs are fun.

EDIT: I hit my knee on my desk while spinning. EA are evil.

[Crispy Dave]

Assuming this is not an April fools joke, this merits a victory spin*.

*Swivel chairs are fun.

EDIT: I hit my knee on my desk while spinning. EA are evil.

congratulations you made me laugh when I am very very very depressed.

[TheEmerged]

WooHoo! I can buy Sims 3!

BTW, don't think of it as a game. Use it as an animation studio :smallbiggrin:

[Trazoi]

I'm fairly meh towards DRM. Most games have some form of copy protection, so as long as the system used doesn't harm my computer or isn't too annoying I'm not too fussed. Although I am a bit concerned about any system that might make the game unplayable in the distant future. I tend to hoard my games forever and replay old classics.

In this case, once EA stripped out the frequent phone home check (which I felt crossed the line) Spore's DRM wasn't too over the top. It was just an online check to register your game to a computer, much like a lot of other software. Then you got the benefit of being able to run the game without having the DVD in your drive, which BTW is a perk we won't have with Sims 3 if they go back to disc based activation.

I guess it depends on whether you want to view your games as a product (a physical thing you own) or a service (the entertainment provided to you). With software most people seem somewhere in-between and both views have merit.

[Moofaa]

Im against any DRM that:

Requires "phoning home" once or even on a regular basis
Requires installing 3rd party software
Can only be installed once, or once per PC (usually by incorporating the above two methods)
Causes me any inconvenience whatsoever.

Last week I bought Empire: Total War, and wanted to install it right after reformatting my gaming comp (for performance reasons). I almost spent more time installing the game than reformatting and restoring backup data.

Mainly because it insisted in installing Steam (which I actually had anyways, but not since I reformatted) So I had to download that (had to download manually from website, steam installer on the disk wouldnt work). Then steam insisted on downloading a patch and wouldnt let me play the game, despite telling it to NOT auto-update (I hate ANYTHING that involves auto-updates). Of course I have cellular internet, so I ended up spending 2 more hours downloading steam and a patch.

After it completed I had to go to work. Thanks DRM guys, thanks for wasting my short period of 'me time' installing all your stupid crap and NOT playing the game I PAYED for.

[Bouregard]

Im against any DRM that:

Requires "phoning home" once or even on a regular basis
Requires installing 3rd party software
Can only be installed once, or once per PC (usually by incorporating the above two methods)
Causes me any inconvenience whatsoever.

Last week I bought Empire: Total War, and wanted to install it right after reformatting my gaming comp (for performance reasons). I almost spent more time installing the game than reformatting and restoring backup data.

Mainly because it insisted in installing Steam (which I actually had anyways, but not since I reformatted) So I had to download that (had to download manually from website, steam installer on the disk wouldnt work). Then steam insisted on downloading a patch and wouldnt let me play the game, despite telling it to NOT auto-update (I hate ANYTHING that involves auto-updates). Of course I have cellular internet, so I ended up spending 2 more hours downloading steam and a patch.

After it completed I had to go to work. Thanks DRM guys, thanks for wasting my short period of 'me time' installing all your stupid crap and NOT playing the game I PAYED for.

Steam is fairly good from all those gameorganizers, if you set it up once you shouldn't expect any more trouble.

The real problem is "Games for Windows Live" Arrrghhh ... How does Microsoft THE CREATOR OF WINDOWS VISTA manages to create a program that incompatible with Windows -.-

I can't play DoW 2 with half my friends because they use some routeroptions GfWL doesn't support.

GfWL disconnects regulary if internet connection is weak (thats a Wlanproblem, but I won't switch to a cable just for stupid GfWl)

Fallout 3 forces me to use GfWl for downloadcontent, each time GfWl fails to report a achievment to the server it crashes fallout, FOR A GODDAMM achievment argh... oh, don't even think about saving first.

Every time i load up fallout it needs to copy around 2gb of data from the GfWl directory to fallout instead of launching the dammed content right from the data folder.

You are not allowed to change your language, location or whatever. Inviting friends to a game is not funny.


So if you think steam is annoying you didn't use windowslive.




The Valve CEO once said that there are no pirates, there are just disappointed customers. I guess he was right.

i like to buy my game in a store, open the case read throught the manual, maybe look at a fancy new poster or other goody. Then install it, watch a informative and funny instalscreen and then PLAY IT,

not install the newest patch from a official server with max download of around 50kb a second

not register by half a dozen gameservices

I want to choose language and location myself. Yes I live in germany. But I like english voiceating because it is in most cases superior to the german translation.

I want to choose WHERE to install it. Half my games want to place all their data on my relativly slow video harddisk

I don't want copyprotection that tells me "Heyx insert the right DVD" if its the right one.

I don't want copyprotection to shut down some imagingtools, or mess with drivers, registry or read out my whole system and report it home.

If a game force me to call home each time its loading, I didn't want to use the DVD each time I want to play... argh

I want to be able to send a game back if its not working. I'm a customer If got rights too!
Usually you hear, you opened it =you have to keep it.
(Glad to live in germany, where every software that fails to inform you of their whole terms of use on the outside of the package can be send back, no company ever thought of changing that^^)

I want to choose to install a patch, some patches do more harm then they fix. Or kill mods that I like playing.


Fellow gamedesigners, not everyone wants to buy a game online right to harddisk. Why? Because its sometimes not fun to download freaking 12gb from a server who only allows 30kb download in the age of torrents -.-
And maybe some of us like to read a written manual in the bathtub.

If you force me to register at some funny gaming service make sure to botsecurity is actually solvable and you won't have to try 15 times till you get a good picture where you can decipher all letters.

And if something on the registryform is not correct please don't delete my password and email each attempt.

Keep the used information short. I don't want to fill in my full name, adress, business adress, parents, telephon, mobile, age, birthday, creditcard etc just to play a OFFLINE game.

Keys:
the next problem are product keys.
1. Write down where to find them! Its not fun to find one on a sheet of paper you nearly throw away because it looks like advertising. Or on the inside of the jewelcase backside. (C&C Generals)
2. Write them with ordinary letters. Its no fun to try out with a 32 digits key what is a 1 or a I or a l or a O or a 0 I spend close to 2 hours trying different versions of my key with spellforce.
3. Ask for the key while you install not, when you attempt to use a function you never use before. Its not funny to install a game, go to work, and after coming back to play find out that you have to search for the key to play singleplayer. and a week later search the key for multiplayerpurpose.

[Avilan the Grey]

Fallout 3 forces me to use GfWl for downloadcontent, each time GfWl fails to report a achievment to the server it crashes fallout, FOR A GODDAMM achievment argh... oh, don't even think about saving first.
Every time i load up fallout it needs to copy around 2gb of data from the GfWl directory to fallout instead of launching the dammed content right from the data folder.

Why don't you just copy the three needed files for each expansion into the data directory and check them in the launcher once and for all? No windows live needed, no hassle?
(After all, it really works just like Oblivion, it's just that they like to pretend you can't do that).

[DeathQuaker]

It's worth noting that what Rod (BBC got his name wrong) Humble said in the press release is that they won't be having online activations, a la Spore.

He also says that there will be "the same disc protection as the Sims 2." The disc protection used on later versions of the Sims 2 and their expansions was SecuROM 7, which causes on some computer makes and models the erroneous "emulation software detected" error and has been reported by users of various SecuROM using games to damage CD/DVD drives.

It is totally unclear as to whether Sims 3 will be SecuROM 7 free or not... the Maxoids at the Sims2.com message board say it will actually be SecuROM free, which is AMAZING news, but some people attempting to pre-order the game direct from EA have gotten a notice that says, "This game comes with SecuROM 7." (If you want to know more, see the Sims2.com message boards and reclaimyourgame.com for the details.)

So, first, no activation limits is very good news. The three lawsuits against EA clearly had an effect even if those cases haven't gone to court yet.

But the even better news would be a clear confirmation that SecuROM 7 is gone entirely.

Then I'll become an EA customer again.

[The Evil Thing]

The sad irony here is that I almost certainly won't be buying The Sims 3 anyway.

What's interesting about this article is that it seems to be the first report on DRM I've read that actually implies pretty strongly that pirates are the only people who don't have to worry about DRM.

[Murska]

The real problem is "Games for Windows Live" Arrrghhh ... How does Microsoft THE CREATOR OF WINDOWS VISTA manages to create a program that incompatible with Windows -.-


I think you just answered your own question there.

[Trazoi]

So, first, no activation limits is very good news. The three lawsuits against EA clearly had an effect even if those cases haven't gone to court yet.
There are class action lawsuits against that? What happened? :smallconfused:
Were people just ticked off at having the limit or did EA screw up the registration system? I might be a bit blasé about the whole registration limit thing because many downloadable games have that now. Usually if you use up the limit you can contact customer support to sort it out, but it's never happened to me.

I suppose the bit about this whole debate that really confuses me is the defnition of Digital Rights Management (DRM). I define it as anything that controls what you do with the software, but it seems many people define it as just "bad" control. Hence I get really confused when people say things like "I avoid all DRM so I only buy from Steam" or "I don't like DRM so I prefer a CD check". The term's becoming a marketing gimmick much like "light" is with food.

[Lorn]

There are class action lawsuits against that? What happened? :smallconfused:
Were people just ticked off at having the limit or did EA screw up the registration system? I might be a bit blasé about the whole registration limit thing because many downloadable games have that now. Usually if you use up the limit you can contact customer support to sort it out, but it's never happened to me.
As far as I understand, people were more ticked off at EA putting software on the disk that installed itself without user consent or knowledge, proceeded to give itself essentially Ring 0 access, used up their system resources and their bandwidth to give feedback to EA and was almost impossible to uninstall - even when the original game was.

I think I heard something about the software not letting a user burn DVDs and similar things as well... not 10% sure though.

[Xefas]

I don't buy a whole lot of games these days (mostly paying rent and buying food instead; damned early adulthood), so this doesn't effect me a whole lot. That said, it still leaves me with a positive feeling. The games that I *do* buy, I generally end up cracking anyway so that I don't have to carry the CD around with me. I'm running all over campus during the day, and when I do have a break, I don't want to have to run all the way home to get my copy of Civ 4 or Neverwinter Nights 2 when I know that all the files I need to play it are already on my computer. Why should I have to do that? I bought the files, the files are right in front of me, but I can't use them?

Maybe the day will come when I don't have to lurk around the seedier places on the internet just to use the things I own.

*Ahem*, also, xkcd comic on the subject (http://xkcd.com/488/).

[Zincorium]

Considering that Securerom:

A. Does not prevent piracy
B. Costs a company money to implement
C. Has lost an unknown but nonzero number of customers
D. Clogs up support channels with unsolvable issues

I'm surprised EA didn't drop it after the first time. I'm even more surprised that no one is suing securerom for breach of contract (alternately, that the contracts are unenforceable and the better business bureau hasn't shut them down for unethical practices.)

Now, I bought several games that had securerom and phoned home, but I didn't like it, as I don't have consistent internet access for my gaming PC and had to hack almost all of them in order to play.

[Tom_Violence]

It's worth noting that what Rod (BBC got his name wrong) Humble said in the press release is that they won't be having online activations, a la Spore.

He also says that there will be "the same disc protection as the Sims 2." The disc protection used on later versions of the Sims 2 and their expansions was SecuROM 7, which causes on some computer makes and models the erroneous "emulation software detected" error and has been reported by users of various SecuROM using games to damage CD/DVD drives.

It is totally unclear as to whether Sims 3 will be SecuROM 7 free or not... the Maxoids at the Sims2.com message board say it will actually be SecuROM free, which is AMAZING news, but some people attempting to pre-order the game direct from EA have gotten a notice that says, "This game comes with SecuROM 7." (If you want to know more, see the Sims2.com message boards and reclaimyourgame.com for the details.)

So, first, no activation limits is very good news. The three lawsuits against EA clearly had an effect even if those cases haven't gone to court yet.

But the even better news would be a clear confirmation that SecuROM 7 is gone entirely.

Then I'll become an EA customer again.

I'd actually forgotten about SecuROM 7, which in retrospect was very much the penultimate straw on the ol' camel's back. I guess that one always struck me as just a hideously badly designed piece of software, rather than a hideously intended piece of software. (That is, bad execution of existing 'you must have the CD in the drive' type stuff, rather than choosing to take the issue a step further with limited 'activations'). I put my hands up and say that my technical knowledge has never been much ahead of the game on any of this stuff though, I just know what irks me.

Still, glad to hear that some are as perked as moi!

[LiteYear]

It is totally unclear as to whether Sims 3 will be SecuROM 7 free or not... the Maxoids at the Sims2.com message board say it will actually be SecuROM free, which is AMAZING news, but some people attempting to pre-order the game direct from EA have gotten a notice that says, "This game comes with SecuROM 7." (If you want to know more, see the Sims2.com message boards and reclaimyourgame.com for the details.)

So, first, no activation limits is very good news. The three lawsuits against EA clearly had an effect even if those cases haven't gone to court yet.

But the even better news would be a clear confirmation that SecuROM 7 is gone entirely.

Then I'll become an EA customer again.
04-01-2009 03:49 AM

I've been reading up on this story here (http://reclaimyourgame.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=section&layout=blog&id=24&Itemid=90), and it says that right now, if you buy the disk version, you will not get SecuROM. However, if you buy the downloadable version, they still seem to want to protect it with SecuROM. Even though the Sims 3 doesn't interest me at all, I'd still take a wait and see approach on it.

[Triaxx]

I'm glad they're dropping it. I mean, after Mass Effect was released, it took FIVE days before it had been cracked fully functional.

[JadedDM]

What? That's crazy! I can't believe it. Next you'll be telling me that Stardock will be introducing a new system of online activation (http://www.impulsedriven.com/news/1214_Stardock_throws_GOO_on_DRM)!

:eek:

[KIDS]

I seriously hope EA reconsiders draconian measures like this and drops SecuROM entirely in the future, else I would be surprised to not see a sharp drop in its sales over time and increase in piracy.

I'd like to point out that not all SecuROM falls under criminal offenses like the one that EA uses. I recently bought Devil May Cry 4 and, after accidentally trying to play it without the DVD inside, got directed to the dreaded SecuROM warnings. I had no idea that game came with SecuROM.

It turns out that the game's protection consists only of a separate program that performs a DVD check when you start the game. That kind of mild measures are reasonable and encouraged. It's only when they insert activation limits, spyware and similar stuff that I will freak out.

p.s. no, I'm not a fan of Sims and will thus not play/buy it. However, I refrained from buying Spore because of the SecuROM bs. I hope EA gets fined for a massive amount over its class-action lawsuit just to teach it a lesson.

[742]

DRM is totally OK, as long as its completely transparent to the user, and does not effect me in any way. a CD check is annoying, but for a good game, its excusable, because if im losing sleep over the thing, odds are im not going to be taking the disk out til im done(or thinking how this could possibly stop a determined cracker or downloader un-DRMed version). a CD key is less than 30 seconds of my time, onece, during an entire install time. im OK with that. steam is on the edge, but anything else? dongles? install limits? online authentication, without me being able to get my game if i lose the disk? that (post not continued for excessive violence, black magic[which im not sure if this board supports, but just in case it does], forced autocannibalism, and acts so horrific they should never be described. except maybe in a childrens story.)