[3.5] Ranger archery style builds

[Sophin87]

So, ranger must be one of my favourite classes but it has occured to me that I have never had an archery style ranger. I have always prefered getting in the thick of thngs, but I'm looking for something different now.

I was pondering whether a halfling specialising in throwing daggers/axes could work using archery style. The thing is that requires Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot and Quick Draw before you even start...

Does anyone have any experience in archery style rangers, or any build tips on a throwing dagger specialist?

[Keld Denar]

The things about Archery is that you need bonus damage. Obvious sources would be precision damage like Sneak Attack or Scirmish. Other sources include X to Y bonuses (like Int to damage, Cha to damage, Dex to damage) and static bonuses such as Knowledge Devotion, Weapon Specialization + Ranged Weapon Mastery, etc.

The most popular ranger archery build is Scout4/RangerX utilizing the Swift Hunter feat from Complete Scoundrel. This allows you to stack your Scout and Ranger levels together to determine your Favored Enemy bonus AND your total Skirmish dice. Combine with Greater Manyshot to get that precision damage applied to each arrow and you can move + standard action Multishot all day long. Combine with swift action Ranger spells like Hunter's Eye to gain even more damage. Swift Hunter also allows you to apply your prescision based damage to creatures that are normally immune to such damage (such as Undead, Constructs, Oozes, Elementals, and Plants) as long as that creature type is also among your favored enemies. So, careful selection of favored enemies can keep you viable in any campaign against any foe. Improved Skirmish should be somewhere in the build.

Only problem with this build is that its EXTREMELY repetative. Move + G Multishot + Lather + Rinse + Repeat. Also, you have to stay within 30' of your foe, so you'll pretty much always be within charging range, which is dangerous.

[Draz74]

The main reason this build style gets avoided is because, at mid-to-high levels, you need magic weapons, and throwing your magic weapons away means you can't use them any more in that full attack. :smallannoyed: Even Returning or Teleporting weapons don't come back to you until the next round, and let's face it, you can't afford 5+ good magical daggers, especially with each one costing an extra +1 compared to usual (due to Returning or Teleporting).

If you don't mind (a) using a PrC, (b) incorporating ToB material, and (c) incredibly cheesy/wuxia fluff, you can get around this problem with the Lightning Ricochet ability of the Bloodstorm Blade PrC.

Another half-decent option is the Gloves of Endless Javelins in the MIC (7000 gp). They let you summon a +1 javelin that deals force damage as a free action at will. But then you'd never have weapons better than +1, and they'd be javelins rather than daggers or axes.

[Person_Man]

The main problem with an archery build is that it gets really boring, really quickly. You have to poor 90% of your resources into one combo. And your tactical position on the battlefield is pretty much meaningless (stay away, fire, stay away, fire, repeat).

If you do stay with archery, then your best options are Swift Hunter, Soulbow, Kensai, or Peerless Archer. All you really need is a powerful magic bow, magic ammo, and someone to cast Greater Magic Weapon for you. And you're set.

Things that improve Ranger:

Read this (forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=892470).

Sword of the Arcane Order feat allows Rangers to memorize Wizard spells (Champions of Valor). Alter Self (forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=176246) and Polymorph can easily be used or abused (as can Greater Invisibility, Protection From Evil, Wraithstrike, and numerous other buff spells), especially since you can Share Spells with your Animal Companion. Even without Sword of the Arcane Order, the various splat books are filled with useful Ranger spells. Just focus on buff effects. And remember, you can use any spell trigger item for a spell on your spell list, even if you don't currently have access to that spell. Or you can just invest in UMD cross class.

Complete Mage has a Favored Enemy (Arcanist), which is a great option. You can also pick up Favored Enemy (Evil) by picking up 2 levels of Stalker of Kharash (Book of Exalted Deeds) or Harper Paragon (Player's Guide to Faerun). Combine with Oversized TWF + Favored Power Attack (Complete Warrior) and Nemesis (Book of Exalted Deeds). Wise to Your Ways (Ghostwalk, 3.0) applies your Favored Enemy bonus to your Saves vs. one Favored Enemy (pick Evil or Arcanist).

Choose a way to get Pounce or something similar (www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5884385). Rangers get a spell that can do this.

Other good feat selections for you will be Power Attack, Leap Attack, Minor Shapeshift (Comp Mage), Combat Reflexes, and Robilar's Gambit (PHBII), and maybe even Anvil of Thunder (Comp Warrior, potentially Dazes enemy, but requires 2 useless Weapon Focus feats as a prereq).

[Rhiannon87]

Does anyone have any experience in archery style rangers, or any build tips on a throwing dagger specialist?

Master Thrower! It's a five-level PrC in Complete Warrior. It's built around the idea of someone who carries a pile of weapons, like daggers and such, and throws them at people. The requirements aren't bad, though you'll probably need at least one level of rogue to get sleight of hand as a skill. And you need three feats: point blank shot, precise shot, weapon focus (any thrown weapon). But what you get for it is pretty cool.

I don't have any suggestions on archery builds, but if you want to go the way of a halfling hurling about daggers of doom, I'd really suggest this class.

EDIT: Just messed around with a halfling ranger build... you could get into this class with 6 levels of ranger, using the archery path, as you would then get a crazy amount of ranged-weapon feats. Then if you wanted, after finishing out Master Thrower, you could go back into ranger. Hope this helps!

[Kaiyanwang]

I think the ranger in this has an advantage: spells. At high levels, there are a lot of spells bringing special effects.*

I don't think ranged combat it's so boring - you can disarm, pin, sunder with ranged weapon as in melee. And you can poison weapons (for the surprise round - rangers are sneaky).

I admit that a lot of people consider tactics above uneffective or underpowered or so, so it depends from your gamestyle :smalltongue:

*Eldariel, IIRC, listed them recently.

[ericgrau]

With stat boosters and putting wealth into other misc gear like boots of speed, you can keep non-magical throwing weapons viable until about level 11. But the problem I had with a similar halfling thrower build was that even though you can pump AB up the wazzoo and hit like crazy, light weapons and a low strength meant that damage was a problem. This kind of build might be better for a rogue who likes to catch monsters flat-footed, or if you focus on strength before dex and let your racial bonuses & feats handle AB. Maybe 4 levels of fighter for weapon spec or a barbarian dip for rage too.

[Person_Man]

Master Thrower!

Master Thrower is indeed an awesome PrC. But it doesn't progress the Ranger's Animal Companion, spells, or Favored Enemy. So Ranger isn't a very good entry, especially when compared to something like Fighter 4/Warblade 1/Master Thrower 5/Bloodstorm Blade 4/Something Else Y.

[Talya]

In the opposite direction from Halflings throwing stuff, this is one of the most fun characters I've played. It was neat even before my DM approved Fax Celestis' Falling Star homebrew TOB discipline. With it, it's awesome.

http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=10326

[Keld Denar]

Something else interesting to try...here's a build I put together...

Flick the Flaming Dagger Flinger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5140212&postcount=11)

Not really reliant on magic weapons either, since nearly all of the damage comes from your Dragonfire Inspiration. Of course, you are gonna end up being pretty useless against like, a fire elemental, or such, but still, its a throwing style halfling badass who juggles hot FIRE.