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Darth Stabber
2009-04-01, 01:11 PM
So the Battle Rager fighter gets Temp hp when hit, Stacking temp hp, AND decent bonuses if they wear lighter armor. Why on gods green earth would I want +1 to hit with one handed or two handed weapons. Is there a compelling reason not to take Battle Rager over either of the two in the PHB, when you have a Con mod of 2-3 or better? (I don't remember what the TWF fighter gets, but it's probably not as good either)

oxybe
2009-04-01, 02:30 PM
TWF has higher damage & lower armor. the TWF requires light/chain AND offhand weapons for full benefits of class features, so he's going to have lower then normal fighter AC and only use a handful of weapons.

PHB fighter has higher accuracy & generally better armor. my personal fav BTW, since i value that +1 to hit. to me in a hit/miss system it is the decider on if you hit or miss and if you deal 2[w]+str or 0.

BR fighter has higher durability. that's it really. he deals nice damage, but his AC is similar to the TWF and his damage a little bit higher then the standard fighter.

it is possible to make a TWF or BR fighter in heavier armor but you will be missing. it's also about thematics too, i mean you can't do the iconic plated sword+board fighter when you use 2 punching daggers and are dancing in chainmail.

Tengu_temp
2009-04-01, 03:02 PM
In 4e, +1 to attack is a noticable bonus. Battleragers have lower AC and tend to use weapons with +2 proficiency bonus, which lowers their attack even further. Also, bear in mind that all fighters can take Invigorating powers - Battleragers are just the only ones who can stack temporary HP.

Yes, it is a very strong variant. No, it's not clearly better in everything than other fighters.

Inyssius Tor
2009-04-01, 08:47 PM
In my (admittedly small) experience, the battlerager fighter in my game hasn't yet been able to really make use of the "stacking temporary HP" thing. His health pretty much always goes down faster than he can rebuild that ablative shield.

Kurald Galain
2009-04-02, 03:45 AM
In my (admittedly small) experience, the battlerager fighter in my game hasn't yet been able to really make use of the "stacking temporary HP" thing. His health pretty much always goes down faster than he can rebuild that ablative shield.

That depends on how it is build. I suspect that the battlerage fighter isn't a problem on average, but it can do a few nasty things when optimized. There's a dwarf-only feat that substantially increases the temp HP, and at moderate level a hit by a minion will generally do less damage than the amount of temp HP you gain.

Darth Stabber
2009-04-02, 07:08 AM
what feat is this? I happen to be playing a dwarf

Thajocoth
2009-04-02, 09:38 AM
what feat is this? I happen to be playing a dwarf

It's not a feat, it's a class feature. Instead of +1 to hit with 1 handed or 2 handed weapons, you can decide to get 3 temp hp any time you're hit with a close or melee attack (doesn't stack), and, fighter powers with the invigorating keyword, when they hit, can give you temp hp that DOES stack. And there's some other bonus if you wear light armor, I think... The BRV fighter in my party's got plate, so I don't recall the bonus.

Kurald Galain
2009-04-02, 10:11 AM
what feat is this? I happen to be playing a dwarf

Dwarf Stoneblood.

TheOOB
2009-04-02, 10:16 PM
The +1 attack is always useful, no matter what powers you select. Battlerager vigor gives you some temp hp if you get hit (good, but not better then +1 to attack, remember they don't stack if you already have temp hp), the ability to make invigorating powers a little better(which is okay because they are kinda weak), and some extra damage if you use sub-par armor.

So you get a cool little defensive ability, the ability to make some powers actually useful, and the choice to make an exchange of damage for less AC(at a pretty bad rate). It's good, but not really that amazing.

its_all_ogre
2009-04-03, 03:46 AM
my view on this:
battlerager is awesome against minions of appropriate level so long as you have a good con, you become practically immune to them.
BUT brutes of appropriate level can hit you consistently, thanks to your lower ac, and they dish out the hurt very fast.
soldiers hit you very easily because they're already accurate even without your gimped ac
against brutes you fare ok but soldiers are hard to hit already so losing that +1 to hit really starts to suck.
if you're playing a goliath or other con boosting race it may work out. otherwise i think the standard fighter sword and board build does it better.