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Thajocoth
2009-04-02, 11:33 AM
Hey. I've been DMing a campaign for 3 sessions. The PCs are level 3 (very close to 4), each with a +1 weapon, implement or armor, and have only been on the surface thus far. I've been doing too much of "You defeated the monsters, you get X XP & Y GP, no magic items." So, naturally, I want to insert more magic items. The way I planned to do it is have some of their enemies wear magic items and use them against the party first. There are some cases for which this might be impossible though... Including 8 of their next 9 encounters. (Based on what decisions I think they'll probably make. With different decisions, they'll see different encounters.)

Basically, to save one of their party members from something slowly eating away at him from within (literally), they'll need a certain ritual. The ritual was put in a dungeon that was never finished. The only guardians placed in this dungeon were a few constructs near the beginning of it. However... At some point since then, a Bloodcrazed Duergar Dhampyr Death Master moved in (I'm working on a name for him), bringing a few demons and a bunch of undead. Odds are they'll be level 4 by the time they reach this point, maybe nearly 5.

The dungeon (with encounters) is as follows:

Small empty room with the stairs that lead down into it. Only door leads to the next room.

-----

Wide room. Each of 3 doors has 2 constructs flanking it that activate & attack when the PCs get in range. It's possible to activate only some of them, as they're not linked.

2xClay Scout Level 2 Lurker
Small natural animate (construct, homunculus) XP 125

2xIron Defender Level 3 Soldier
Medium natural animate (construct, homunculus) XP 150

2xIron Cobra Level 6 Skirmisher
Medium natural animate (construct, homunculus) XP 250

3 exit doors... All of which lead to the same big room.

-----

This room is just as wide as the previous. It's a bit longer though... Just slightly. Lines on the floor detail where the room should be divided into 3 separate rooms. 3 doors go back and 3 seem to go forward, though, one of them just has a dirt wall on the other side.

15xZombie Rotter Level 3 Minion
Medium natural animate (undead) XP 38

The other two forward doors lead to the next two rooms listed below.

-----

Medium sized room. This room has a line of dirt showing with a pit was planned to go

(364) Ashgaunt Level 7 Soldier (Leader)
Medium natural humanoid (undead) XP 300

4xZombie Level 2 Brute
Medium natural animate (undead) XP 125

Door forward leads to room 2 down from here

--or--

This medium sized room has slits in the walls for a trap that was never installed

2xChillborn Zombie Level 6 Soldier
Medium natural animate (cold, undead) XP 250

Zombie Hulk Level 8 Brute
Large natural animate (undead) XP 350

Door forward leads to room 2 down from here

-----

There's some scaffolding in this medium sized room.

Flameskull Level 8 Artillery
Tiny natural animate (undead) XP 350

2xGhoul Level 5 Soldier
Medium natural humanoid (undead) XP 200

Door forward leads to room 2 down from here

--or--

There's 3 blades hanging from the ceiling. They swing when hit. There are slits in the wall where these were supposed to retract to and swing from when triggered.

8xDecrepit Skeleton Level 1 Minion
Medium natural animate (undead) XP 25

4xSkeleton Level 3 Soldier
Medium natural animate (undead) XP 150

Door forward leads to next room

-----

1xDeathlock Wight Level 4 Controller
Medium natural humanoid (undead) XP 175

3xWight Level 5 Skirmisher
Medium natural humanoid (undead) XP 200

They speak! Players might be able to get the demon's name from them... And maybe the fact that he's a demon. Small hexagonal HUB room with 4 doors, 2 forward & 2 back, and two door outlines. Two forward doors lead to two rooms below.

-----

3xImp Level 3 Lurker
Tiny immortal humanoid (devil) XP 150

(365) Assassin Imp Level 7 Elite Lurker
Tiny immortal humanoid (devil) XP 600

Medium-large room. There's a pit with marks where a bridge belong. Exit on the other side leads to the final chamber.

--or--

Basic room. Nothing special. Medium-large.

Cambion Hellsword Level 8 Brute
Medium immortal humanoid (devil) XP 350

2xSpined Devil (Spinagon) Level 6 Skirmisher
Medium immortal humanoid (devil) XP 250

3xLegion Devil Grunt Level 6 Minion
Medium immortal humanoid (devil) XP 63

-----

(371) Bloodcrazed Duergar Dhampyr Level 8 Elite Brute
Medium natural humanoid (devil, vampire) XP 700
(Add Death Master to make solo. Do not pair with anyone. Minions spawned: 4xVampire Spawn Fleshrippers)

Vampire Spawn Fleshripper Level 5 Minion
Medium natural humanoid (undead) XP 50

Room is shaped like a wide hallway. It's not huge. In the far corner is a box with the ritual. A hidden passage leads to a nearby friendly underground Minotaur city maze.

I haven't decided on any of what the player will be rewarded with for this. I can toss some +1 items on some of the devils... I can have the constructs have gems worth gp embedded in them. I can have the demon have some sort of battle-worthless item that's worth 7 encounters worth of gp... (Plus the gp for one casting of the ritual.) I don't know. I don't want to drop this part of the experience into boring. Flat gp is boring.

As for the demon's reasons for being there... His power is being sucked dry and he doesn't understand why, so he's been doing whatever he can to try to bolster it. He's also been cut off from contact with any demons outside this region of the natural world. He's frustrated and confused. He figured this a good place to hide while he rebuilds himself and a bit of an undead army as well. He's oblivious to the ritual's existence.

The party may sleep as often as they'd like with no interruptions, but each time they sleep, they risk their rogue getting worse... And after a few failures, their friend would turn on them.

So any ideas for making the loot for this more interesting than just handing them a 2500gp gem at the end? It's possible that they could come across this dungeon on this coming Sunday... Depending on various decisions.

Oracle_Hunter
2009-04-02, 12:14 PM
So, first you should pimp out the Boss with some magical items. I know you worry about overpowering your PCs, but if he knows about the items, he'd either have them or have sold them.

Wealth is simple, of course - in the Boss's living quarters are all the money he's gathered. Presuming he needs money for something - otherwise, shinies he enjoys.

The only other way to spread treasure through the dungeon is to put it in Secret Rooms. Maybe they're Weapon Caches, or Treasure Vaults, but they were put in by the original designer and not discovered by the Boss.

Out of curiosity, how the the Boss get past the constructs without killing them?

Kyeudo
2009-04-02, 12:19 PM
Why arn't you using the given treasure parcels? It tells you exactly how many items of what level to hand out to the party.

Thajocoth
2009-04-02, 12:27 PM
Out of curiosity, how the the Boss get past the constructs without killing them?

The secret door that leads to the Marzanu Maze can also lead from the Marzanu Maze. Being a city that's also a ginormous complex maze, it's possible for him to have stumbled upon it without running into any of the minotaurs or kruthiks down there. The constructs, however, are what kept any zombies from eventually wandering into Hollowville (A town of Shifters). If they leave without going back to wipe out the rooms they could very well skip, Hollowville will have significantly less clerics and guards the next time the party visits.


Why arn't you using the given treasure parcels? It tells you exactly how many items of what level to hand out to the party.

It's a good guide for quantity, but not what, where or how. A group of 15 zombie minions isn't going to have magic items of gold... There could be a stash in the room somewhere, but a stash in every room is very unrealistic, so a few parcels get combined. Basically, within this dungeon, I'll want to give them 7-10 parcels worth of stuff, but not using a direct "Every battle gets exactly one parcel right then & there" type of thing.

For reference, the level 4 parcel is:
Party Level 4 Total Monetary Treasure: 1,680 gp
1 Magic item, level 8
2 Magic item, level 7
3 Magic item, level 6
4 Magic item, level 5
5 470 gp, or one 250 gp art object + two potions of healing + 120 gp, or four 100 gp gems + 70 gp
6 420 gp, or one 250 gp art object + 170 gp, or three 100 gp gems + one potion of healing + 70 gp
7 280 gp, or two 100 gp gems + 80 gp, or one 100 gp gem + two potions of healing + 80 gp
8 280 gp, or one 250 gp art object + 30 gp, or 250 gp + 300 sp
9 140 gp, or one 100 gp gem + 40 gp, or one potion of healing + 90 gp
10 90 gp, or 50 gp + 400 sp, or one potion of healing + 40 gp

And... We don't deal with cp or sp in this campaign.

Oracle_Hunter
2009-04-02, 12:35 PM
So... what exactly are you looking for? Places to put the loot, or what loot to place?

If you're looking for alternate forms for gold, go with Art Objects. The demons can wear awesome bracers, crowns, collars, or what have you. Sentients always like feeling pretty :smalltongue:

Thajocoth
2009-04-02, 12:46 PM
So... what exactly are you looking for? Places to put the loot, or what loot to place?

If you're looking for alternate forms for gold, go with Art Objects. The demons can wear awesome bracers, crowns, collars, or what have you. Sentients always like feeling pretty :smalltongue:

Hmm... Makes sense...

Now I'm thinking... The boss and one demon/wight in each room with demons or wights will have a +1 something... I'll double check what mundane armor/weapons they already have to decide what specifically... And give everyone from the wights and after some sort of insignia or something that they're wearing to show loyalty to the demon, that happens to be made with a metal valuable enough to be worth collecting... The demons would have a little gp on them as well, and the final boss would have something he's wearing that he thinks looks good... And the constructs will each have a slot that holds a healing potion. And the ritual itself is a level 8 ritual and worth quite a lot on it's own... Adding that to their ritual book is also a reward.

Thanks, this has been helpful.

Another_Poet
2009-04-02, 12:51 PM
You say it's not possible to hand out magic items for 8 of the 9 encounters, but you don't say why. Can you elabourate please?

My guess is you mean that most of the encounters - golems and undead - wouldn't logically have magical items on them.

In general, this is true. If you have access to a wizard with the necessary spells, and enough time and resources, it would be better to build golems with enchanted limbs or get corposes with great natural weapons. That way your enemies can't pilfer magic items off of your minions. But, not every dungeon builder/evil guy has such resources. Maybe he bought the undead on the black market and found the magic items in the dungeon and giving the magic items to the undead was the best he could do on short notice.

Or, maybe the dungeon was built long ago in the early days of arcane science, when the spells to enchant weapons had been invented, and the spells to build golems had been invented, but not one had figured out you could enchant golems like magic weapons. Hence, the ancient guardians are golems wielding magic swords.

In other words, there are reasons why magic items can be on ANY of the encounters you've detailed.

But, if you don't like that, here are some other options.

THE CLASSIC
As the PCs enter the room with the Ashgaunt and four Zombie Brutes, they see that the undead are gathered around fresh carrion, and are feasting on the entrails. After the battle the PCs can see that the carrion is all that remains of another group of adventurers - well, that and their equipment! (Ka-CHING!) A small tunnel in the ceiling shows how the other party got to this room without killing the golems in the previous rooms - they tunneled in. Doubles as an escape route for the PCs!

THE SECRET
In the room with 15 zombies the PCs notice something unusual. All the zombies had picks, shovels and other mining equipment. It doesn't take a genius to determine that they were obviouskly assigned a tunneling job - but which way? Wall, since one way leads back and the other leads forward, the PCs really only have two walls to choose from. A few hours of chipping away a the right one will reveal a hidden room on the far side, probably sealed with magic long ago. Inside is an armoury of magical items. The evil guy had figured out where it was and sent his zombies to dig for it, but luckily the PCs got there first.

HORROR STORY
One room has a latrine of to the side - a simple bench with 4 toilet holes in it. The toilet holes are simple shafts that descend deep into the darkness below. If the PCs are brave/strong-stomached enough to climb inside they won't find any poop (it's been what, a few hundred years since a living creature was here?). They do find, however, the skeletal remains of about 30 children and three adults. Obviously, the dungeon had fallen to invaders at some point and the kids were hidden in the latrine to avoid capture. Their handful of guardians stayed true to the end, and they all perished together as the intruders feasted on the floor above. All that is left now are their fragile remains and a few magic weapons they had in case they were discovered...

HA-HA
When the evil guy moved in, he discovered a rack of weapons. The rack is carefully positioned on a huge X engraved in the floor, and a tag on the rack says "Do Not Touch." Figuring it was a trap, the evil guy decided to wait and let the PCs spring it, then grab the loot for himself.

Joke's on him - the X and the note are just a poor man's way of bluffing people into thinking they paid for an expensive trap. The PCs can simply takle the gear with no repercussions. Of course, you get the added pleasure of watching them hem and haw over what the trap could be before someone finally just grabs the stuff.

Enjoy!

Thajocoth
2009-04-02, 01:02 PM
You say it's not possible to hand out magic items for 8 of the 9 encounters, but you don't say why. Can you elabourate please?

My guess is you mean that most of the encounters - golems and undead - wouldn't logically have magical items on them.

In general, this is true. If you have access to a wizard with the necessary spells, and enough time and resources, it would be better to build golems with enchanted limbs or get corposes with great natural weapons. That way your enemies can't pilfer magic items off of your minions. But, not every dungeon builder/evil guy has such resources. Maybe he bought the undead on the black market and found the magic items in the dungeon and giving the magic items to the undead was the best he could do on short notice.

Or, maybe the dungeon was built long ago in the early days of arcane science, when the spells to enchant weapons had been invented, and the spells to build golems had been invented, but not one had figured out you could enchant golems like magic weapons. Hence, the ancient guardians are golems wielding magic swords.

In other words, there are reasons why magic items can be on ANY of the encounters you've detailed.

But, if you don't like that, here are some other options.

THE CLASSIC
As the PCs enter the room with the Ashgaunt and four Zombie Brutes, they see that the undead are gathered around fresh carrion, and are feasting on the entrails. After the battle the PCs can see that the carrion is all that remains of another group of adventurers - well, that and their equipment! (Ka-CHING!) A small tunnel in the ceiling shows how the other party got to this room without killing the golems in the previous rooms - they tunneled in. Doubles as an escape route for the PCs!

THE SECRET
In the room with 15 zombies the PCs notice something unusual. All the zombies had picks, shovels and other mining equipment. It doesn't take a genius to determine that they were obviouskly assigned a tunneling job - but which way? Wall, since one way leads back and the other leads forward, the PCs really only have two walls to choose from. A few hours of chipping away a the right one will reveal a hidden room on the far side, probably sealed with magic long ago. Inside is an armoury of magical items. The evil guy had figured out where it was and sent his zombies to dig for it, but luckily the PCs got there first.

HORROR STORY
One room has a latrine of to the side - a simple bench with 4 toilet holes in it. The toilet holes are simple shafts that descend deep into the darkness below. If the PCs are brave/strong-stomached enough to climb inside they won't find any poop (it's been what, a few hundred years since a living creature was here?). They do find, however, the skeletal remains of about 30 children and three adults. Obviously, the dungeon had fallen to invaders at some point and the kids were hidden in the latrine to avoid capture. Their handful of guardians stayed true to the end, and they all perished together as the intruders feasted on the floor above. All that is left now are their fragile remains and a few magic weapons they had in case they were discovered...

HA-HA
When the evil guy moved in, he discovered a rack of weapons. The rack is carefully positioned on a huge X engraved in the floor, and a tag on the rack says "Do Not Touch." Figuring it was a trap, the evil guy decided to wait and let the PCs spring it, then grab the loot for himself.

Joke's on him - the X and the note are just a poor man's way of bluffing people into thinking they paid for an expensive trap. The PCs can simply takle the gear with no repercussions. Of course, you get the added pleasure of watching them hem and haw over what the trap could be before someone finally just grabs the stuff.

Enjoy!

Hmm... I like this sort of approach. I might do one or two of these. With the fallen adventurer, that also lets me give them stuff I wouldn't normally be able to think of an enemy or setting that might have, as an adventurer could have anything. I'm leaning towards it. Thanks a lot for the advice.

Lycan 01
2009-04-02, 02:13 PM
I must say, this topic is helping me out a lot, as well. Thanks! :smallbiggrin:


I must ask, just to be sure... When you give your players a +1 weapon or sword, what does the +1 go to? For example, a +1 shield... It gives them +1 to AC on top of what the shield normally provides, correct? And a +1 broadsword has +1 attack and +1 damage on top of the normal stats, right?

Sorry, didn't have the money for the DMG... :smallredface:


Oh, here's an idea... Some of the zombies could be fresh, and still have items from when they were alive on them. Nothing big like a suit of armor... But perhaps a bracer with a small enchantment on it, or a family heirloom in the form of a silver pendant or gold bracelet.

You could also have a small crawlspace or something tucked away in the corner, leading the players to believe there's treasure hidden in it. But in reality, its just a large rat-hole. Anybody who sticks an arm in there to grab the treasure...... heh heh. :smallamused:

Oracle_Hunter
2009-04-02, 02:30 PM
I must ask, just to be sure... When you give your players a +1 weapon or sword, what does the +1 go to? For example, a +1 shield... It gives them +1 to AC on top of what the shield normally provides, correct? And a +1 broadsword has +1 attack and +1 damage on top of the normal stats, right?

Sorry, didn't have the money for the DMG... :smallredface:

So, in 4E there are no more +1 Shields - just +1 Armor, which is Armor +1 AC.

Weapons do +1 hit / +1 damage.

And most items in 4E have secondary powers as well.

Olo Demonsbane
2009-04-02, 04:09 PM
The items are in the PHB....

Lycan 01
2009-04-02, 04:32 PM
*flips through PHB*

Oh... So they are...

Heh heh... :smallredface: :smalleek:

Nightson
2009-04-02, 04:45 PM
A group of 15 zombie minions isn't going to have magic items of gold...

Unless a previous adventurer was kind enough to 'deposit' a magic weapon into one of the zombies.

Thajocoth
2009-04-02, 05:51 PM
Here's the full history of this dungeon, if anyone cares:

This dungeon was partially built contracted by a master ritualist who's most well known deed came into effect 299 years 11 months and a week or so ago and is still covering the area... About 1/4 the size of Ohio. (A giant dome-shaped portal that protects the region, but also seals it off, forcing a very uneasy peace.)

The Marzanu Maze was designed by the Gnomes of Zipdar, for Marzanu Minotaurs, and built by tamed Kruthiks about 200 years ago. Marzanu Maze already existed at the time of this dungeon's partial construction, and Mulvera (The Eladrin ritualist I mentioned) died about 100 years ago while this dungeon was being built. (So this partial dungeon is 100 years old.)

Hollowville already had their church on top of it's primary entrance at that point, and are oblivious to any sort of perils inside. The only item inside they know about is the Change Race ritual Mulvera created, that was hidden down there due to the implications it could have... It happens to be what the party will need to cure their rogue of Lamiafication. They also know about the constructs, but don't see them as being a big issue to bypass.

The only other entrance is the rear entrance, connecting to the Marzanu Maze, which is where the demon and his friends wandered in from. Also... The Gnolls in the region regularly raid the graveyards of region for food, so there's not a lot of material for somebody who raises the dead to work with. So... He's been there about 75 years, and this is all the undead he could muster in that time.

A week ago, the current villain, Mulvera Jr. sent one of his agents to tunnel into the place and grab that ritual, and even gave him some Catstep Boots (level 3 item, I believe) to help reduce the fall, but it was a further drop than he anticipated, so he just gave the party a pair of Catstep Boots (which is quite a help as Mulvera Jr.'s attacks will deal fall damage).

Lycan 01
2009-04-02, 06:45 PM
Nifty, nifty... I like it. :smallbiggrin: I'm guessing the guy with the boots is the fellow the zombies will be munching on, huh? Good job with the connectivity...

Oooh... You could mention that the BBEG of the dungeon is reading a book when they meet him, or there could be one nearby to show he'd been reading it. The book itself is mundane - there's nothing magical or epic about it. But its the last book in an old series, in rather good condition. They don't know that though... Later on, when they get back into town to sell their look, they could notice the merchant reading a book with a similar-cover. If questioned about it, he mentions that he lacks the last book in the series, and that he'd pay good money for it, or even offer a discount in the shop to anyone who gave it to him.

If they took the book, huzzah, it came in handy! If not... you win some, you lose some. :smallcool:

Thajocoth
2009-04-02, 06:54 PM
Nifty, nifty... I like it. :smallbiggrin: I'm guessing the guy with the boots is the fellow the zombies will be munching on, huh? Good job with the connectivity...
Aye, it shall. And thanks; sometimes I wonder if I put too much work into backstory. The entire region has a rich 300 year history. Glad to hear somebody's enjoying it.


Oooh... You could mention that the BBEG of the dungeon is reading a book when they meet him, or there could be one nearby to show he'd been reading it. The book itself is mundane - there's nothing magical or epic about it. But its the last book in an old series, in rather good condition. They don't know that though... Later on, when they get back into town to sell their look, they could notice the merchant reading a book with a similar-cover. If questioned about it, he mentions that he lacks the last book in the series, and that he'd pay good money for it, or even offer a discount in the shop to anyone who gave it to him.

If they took the book, huzzah, it came in handy! If not... you win some, you lose some. :smallcool:

If they didn't take it, they would likely go back for it, knowing this group. That is an excellent idea. I'm not going to use it (at least not for this dungeon), but it's a definite win.

Lycan 01
2009-04-02, 07:20 PM
Backstory is a great thing to have, because you never know when your players might get curious about the world around them. "What do you mean we can't go North? There's a war going on up there? Since when?! :smalleek:"


Actually, if they went back for the book, you could have them bump into something new in the dungeon. It could either be a gang of bandits who saw them go in and leave and now want whatever is left behind, or perhaps a few of the dead guy's buddies. The boss realized he was taking too long, so he sent another dude or two to see what went wrong. This presents further plot developement, as well as a tough but possibly rewarding encounter. Win/win, right? :smallcool:

Btw, perhaps you should plant a note on the dead guy? Do the PCs know about the BBEG in the background? If not, here's a chance to drop some hints that they're not the only important characters in this story... :smallwink:

Kroy
2009-04-02, 07:28 PM
Wait, what edition are you playing? I thought it was 3.5, but then Oracle started talking about 4th. Though that isn't really saying anything.:smallwink:

Oracle_Hunter
2009-04-02, 07:38 PM
Wait, what edition are you playing? I thought it was 3.5, but then Oracle started talking about 4th. Though that isn't really saying anything.:smallwink:

Look at the monster names:

2xClay Scout Level 2 Lurker
Small natural animate (construct, homunculus) XP 125

2xIron Defender Level 3 Soldier
Medium natural animate (construct, homunculus) XP 150

2xIron Cobra Level 6 Skirmisher
Medium natural animate (construct, homunculus) XP 250

That's 4E notation. It would've been nice to see a [4E] tag in the subject, but what're you gonna do :smalltongue:

Colmarr
2009-04-02, 07:38 PM
Wait, what edition are you playing? I thought it was 3.5, but then Oracle started talking about 4th. Though that isn't really saying anything.:smallwink:

The OP refers to Lurkers and Soldiers, so it's a safe bet that we're talking 4e.

Edit: Curse you, Ninja Oracle!

Oracle_Hunter
2009-04-02, 07:45 PM
Edit: Curse you, Ninja Oracle!

See, I told you Improved Initiative is a good feat :smalltongue:

Thajocoth
2009-04-02, 09:25 PM
Wait, what edition are you playing? I thought it was 3.5, but then Oracle started talking about 4th. Though that isn't really saying anything.:smallwink:

My mistake. I really should put [4e] in the subject of every topic I make.

Foeofthelance
2009-04-03, 11:06 AM
So, in 4E there are no more +1 Shields - just +1 Armor, which is Armor +1 AC.

Weapons do +1 hit / +1 damage.

And most items in 4E have secondary powers as well.

Yeah, does anyone know why that is? It just seems sort of silly for Wizards to magically come to the conclusion that, "OMG, +1 AC on a shield is broken! We must not allow these things to fall into the player's hands!"

Oracle_Hunter
2009-04-03, 11:28 AM
Yeah, does anyone know why that is? It just seems sort of silly for Wizards to magically come to the conclusion that, "OMG, +1 AC on a shield is broken! We must not allow these things to fall into the player's hands!"

To cut down on AC stacking and confusion.

If you allow AC bonuses on shields, you give a massive AC bonus to Sword-and-Board types as compared to non-shield wielders. This assists in balancing encounters (by keeping ACs within a relatively small range) and also it makes 2H Fighters a viable choice.

To compensate, shields also provide Reflex protection.

Toliudar
2009-04-03, 11:40 AM
Any reason why these particular constructs couldn't be "powered" by magic items installed inside them. The first time that the PC's kill one, they catch sight of a glint of metal inside [wherever/however it got broken]. After that, they're more likely to think about looking inside these "fortune cookie" creatures for more goodies.

Another_Poet
2009-04-03, 12:00 PM
Hmm... I like this sort of approach. I might do one or two of these. With the fallen adventurer, that also lets me give them stuff I wouldn't normally be able to think of an enemy or setting that might have, as an adventurer could have anything. I'm leaning towards it. Thanks a lot for the advice.

You're welcome :smallsmile: