[4e] Consecrated Ground

[Colmarr]

I'm having trouble figuring this level 5 Cleric Daily out.

It creates a zone in a close burst 1 around the cleric. The zone does very groovy stuff. So far so good.

The thing that I can't figure out is the bit that says you can move the zone 3 squares as a move action.

On its own, that's not so troublesome, but when you combine it with the text in the rules for zones that says they end if no part of zone is within range of the caster, the power becomes very curious.

So, am I right in believing that if the cleric ever moves the Consecrated Ground zone so that it is not adjacent to him (or if the cleric is pushed more than 1 square from the zone), then the power ends?

[JackMage666]

Sounds like you're exactly right. You'll need to move with the zone, and forced movement might be a power-stopper.

[Colmarr]

Yeah. The min-maxer in my party insists that Consecrated Ground is way better than Weapon of the Gods, but with those restrictions on placement and range, I'm just not seeing it.

At least you can "fire and forget" Weapon of the Gods.

[Artanis]

*checks*

Consecrated Ground is a movable persistant AoE, does more damage than Spiritual Weapon adds, and heals your allies. Sounds pretty damned good to me.

[Colmarr]

Consecrated Ground is a movable persistant AoE

But given what I said above, it's not actually terribly moveable at all. At best, you can move it 2 squares per turn because otherwise you wind up out of range and the power ends.

Conversely, Weapon of the Gods can be given to an ally, and they can take it with them.

I'm not saying Consecrated Ground is terrible, simply that I don't think it's as awesome as some suggest. It's no Flaming Sphere :smallwink:

[JackMage666]

I dunno, 1d6+Cha automatic, in a 3x3 area, automatic healing if your ally is below bloodied value, and you can move (albeit slowly), is rather potent.

[Artanis]

But given what I said above, it's not actually terribly moveable at all. At best, you can move it 2 squares per turn because otherwise you wind up out of range and the power ends.

Conversely, Weapon of the Gods can be given to an ally, and they can take it with them.

I'm not saying Consecrated Ground is terrible, simply that I don't think it's as awesome as some suggest. It's no Flaming Sphere :smallwink:
Of course it's no Flaming Sphere: the Cleric is a secondary controller, not a primary one.

Weapon of the Gods can be given to an ally, but that ally will have to hit at least twice as many times (possibly three or even four times) to exceed the single-target damage of Consecrated Ground.

Also, you can move it the full 3 if you're moving it across you.

[Jothki]

On its own, that's not so troublesome, but when you combine it with the text in the rules for zones that says they end if no part of zone is within range of the caster, the power becomes very curious.

Are most zones creatable at a distance from the caster? If that's the case, it's probably a screw-up on the part of the people who designed the power, and it needs an errata to give it a distance that it can be maintained at.

In practice, you could probably look at the ranges for long-distance zones, and use that as a maintainable range for the power.

[Colmarr]

Of course it's no Flaming Sphere: the Cleric is a secondary controller, not a primary one.

I wasn't suggesting it should actually be a flaming sphere. :smallsigh:

I was suggesting that a freely moveable Consecrated Ground would be as comparatively overpowered as Flaming Sphere is.

[TheOOB]

Basically it's better for the melee clerics then the laser ones.

[Kurald Galain]

So, am I right in believing that if the cleric ever moves the Consecrated Ground zone so that it is not adjacent to him (or if the cleric is pushed more than 1 square from the zone), then the power ends?
One step further, even. If the cleric moves out of the zone, or is pushed out of it, then the power ends. That's because the range is zero, and thus one square of the zone has to remain on the cleric.


Are most zones creatable at a distance from the caster?
Yes, as indicated by the "range: 10" in the power description. This one just happens to have a range of "close burst" instead.

I don't think that's a mistake, at all. Consecrated Ground becomes really cheesy without some kind of a restriction. It might not be as obvious at first, but it basically means that the party cannot die, and thus cannot lose the combat. If the party sticks to the zone, they'll get up again every round unless coup-de-graced. As such, it's right on the level with Righteous Rage of Gouda.

[Colmarr]

One step further, even. If the cleric moves out of the zone, or is pushed out of it, then the power ends. That's because the range is zero, and thus one square of the zone has to remain on the cleric.

I'm not sure I agree with that. The "range" is close burst 1, so one square of the zone needs to stay within a close burst 1 (ie. one square) of the caster.

If a close burst 1 power can hit an adjacent enemy, then it's "range" can't be zero, can it?

[Oracle_Hunter]

So, actual text:

If a power allows you to move a zone, at least 1 square that the zone covers must remain within the power’s range. If you move far enough away from a zone that it is no longer in range, its effects immediately end.
Consecrated Ground has a range of "Close Burst 1" which is your square plus all the squares surrounding you. As long as 1 square of the zone is in one of those 9 squares, it is OK.

[Kurald Galain]

I'm not sure I agree with that. The "range" is close burst 1, so one square of the zone needs to stay within a close burst 1 (ie. one square) of the caster.
Let me pararaphrase that: the range is close, the area of effect is a burst 1.

According to the ranges & areas part in the combat section, a close blast is next to you, whereas a close burst is on top of you.



If a close burst 1 power can hit an adjacent enemy, then it's "range" can't be zero, can it?
It can, since its area of effect is non-zero.

(edit) however, I agree that the CG power can be interpreted in multiple ways. When DM'ing, I would personally rule it as I just mentioned, because I feel this is the most balanced interpretation. When someone else was DM'ing, I would not argue the point.

[Colmarr]

According to the ranges & areas part in the combat section, a close blast is next to you, whereas a close burst is on top of you.

Hmm. I don't have my PHB with me, but I thought that only applied to the origin square...

Never mind. No point continuing an argument where we both acknowledge that the other's interpretation is viable.

[TheOOB]

For what it's worth, I would rule that as long as one of the squares of the zone is adjacent to you, the effect persists. I try to enable my players to do what they wish as long as it doesn't compromise the game too much.