GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread

[JoshuaZ]

Hmm, this chain of conversation leads to a possible contest idea: Design a PrC with the only restriction being that it has to be based on something from an existing fantasy media.

[DracoDei]

I grant it isn't necessarily an easy thing to do. But around here MOST of us (and I am explicitly INCLUDING Lord_Gareth in here), are of a class to be able to do that sort of thing (or other things just as hard). There will always be a few newbies SOME of whom will never advance beyond the stage of being newbies (for whatever reason). Then again there will also be someone who will evoke the following (Fako, with the Skinshred Swarm):

This...this? This is your first piece of homebrew?
....the Force is strong in this one.


Also, I don't know if this quite works as an example, but there was a Motivator I found on the site with the huge Motivator thread (enworld?), and which I can't quite find to link to... but 4 words for you "Undead Nazi Steampunk Ninja"... in case you aren't familiar with what I am talking about, let me just say that the character was arguable pretty cool, and DEFINITELY much better than it sounds, then open the following spoiler (warning screen-stretch is possible) (not the best picture I know):
From the first Hellboy movie:
http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs12/i/2006/296/0/3/undead_nazi_steampunk_ninja_by_bongoshock.jpg

In short, we all have our various schticks and areas we shouldn't touch with half a ladder minus the rungs. But most of us are, I think, crazy good homebrewers when you get right down to it. More-so when we get some help from eachother. But just in this contest we have a simple 3 level class to make Conan the barbarian WORK in a D&D environment, a class that bleeds pathos by its very nature (The Bound)... and OVER 20 OTHERS none of which make me need to get out my kid gloves for breaking the news gently that "man, your class is lame, here are some suggestions on how to fix it".

To say it even shorter:
Madness?! This! Is! THE PLAYGROUND!!!

Taking this to the specific, I waited years getting up the guts to post this PrC (it was originally developed for 3.0) since I saw people doing other interpretations of the Dragoon concept and didn't want to seem to be jumping on the bandwagon (even though I had the class written up before I even found these boards). Also, quite frankly, I was probably afraid of the type of reaction you gave (although I will note that you were careful not to aim it specifically at me). As for not wanting to mix the SETTINGS, I covered how to avoid any trace of that in the "Adaptation" section. I explicitly omitted two of her spells because I knew they just wouldn't work in this setting. Yet I managed to translate the rest, found a way to emulate the cheapness of items, realized that Ether type items would map most closely to Mage's Lucubration (thanks for the vocab lesson ErrantX) and Mnemonic Enhancer. I played fast and loose with some of the stuff (for instance Freya doesn't actually have the ability to cast a Life spell, but I gave Leap Dragoons the ability to cast Phoenix Down rather than putting it on the "item creation only" list).

Now if I could get some critique on the balance of the mechanics we might see how good or bad of a job I did in this case. I realize that one of the costs in bridging the concepts was simplicity, and I am working on that. The core of the thing is "untouchable for a round", and making that believable in context is half of what makes the class so long.

[ErrantX]

Yet I managed to translate the rest, found a way to emulate the cheapness of items, realized that Ether type items would map to Mage's Lubrication and

Ahem. It's Mage's -Lucubration (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/lucubration)-, not lube dude :P

Also, I really am at a loss as to what I'm going to do for next contest, but I have a little a while before I have to come to an actual decision.

-X

[DracoDei]

Ahem. It's Mage's -Lucubration (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/lucubration)-, not lube dude :P

Huh... I have been reading that wrong since 2nd Edition... I always thought it was a reference to oiling a machine to make it work better. I learned a new word today!

[ErrantX]

Huh... I have been reading that wrong since 2nd Edition... I always thought it was a reference to oiling a machine to make it work better. I learned a new word today!

You are so not the only one who has done that! The more you know; we here in the Playground advocate learning AND playing :smallbiggrin:

-X

P.S. As an aside, I think I will take your suggestion DracoDei, and start a new chat thread after this contest. This one is getting a bit... full.

[JoshuaZ]

Also, I really am at a loss as to what I'm going to do for next contest, but I have a little a while before I have to come to an actual decision.



Well, there have been four or five suggestions for you in this thread so far so you may want to skim through those and see if any appeal to you. Also, have you made up your mind if there's going to be a run-off system or the like for this contest?

[ErrantX]

Well, there have been four or five suggestions for you in this thread so far so you may want to skim through those and see if any appeal to you. Also, have you made up your mind if there's going to be a run-off system or the like for this contest?

That's what I meant, before this contest ends and before I end this thread, I'll see what folks want here.

-X

[Latronis]

I hate doing stat blocks :\ Must i include a sample encounter?

[ErrantX]

I hate doing stat blocks :\ Must i include a sample encounter?

Negative. I ask for the beginning fluff, tables, and crunch. I strongly prefer to have the afterfluff, and sample encounter is just extra in my opinion.

-X

[DracoDei]

One of the spells I am referencing in my entry is out of date and I don't have the correct books to update it. Is there such a spell as Less Vigor, Mass in 3.5, and if so, would I be correct in assuming it grants fast healing 1 for its duration and what level is it for clerics?

Never mind... taken care of.

[DracoDei]

Just got through fixing a LOT about the spell lists (including readability of the "crafting only" stuff).
Worked a bit on clarifying Leap Attack (Float) and Spears of the Heavens.
Added one or two more feats, one based on a single cut-scene.




ErrantX: I think it would be good if, when you make the voting thread, you do the line to my entry something like as follows:

Leap Dragoon: Part 1 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7665584&postcount=22), Part 2 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7665591&postcount=22)


Seems obvious I know, but it never hurts to double-check these things...

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Alright. I'm much happier with this new entry, as it both works mechanically and flavor-wise, and actually came together for me.

Thoughts? It's a 5 level 16-20 Paladin Capstone class, aimed at making the Paladin...well...truly heroic, and truly a force to be reckoned with. Yes, it's strong. It's intended to be so.

[Eurus]

I think it's fantastic, but I'm not a huge fan of Purity Incarnate. The save-or-die aspect is fine, even considering the fact that it's at will, but it just seems kind of lame to go "Bam. You're Good now." Kind of makes rehabilitation seem cheap. Plus then you run into the issue of it being unethical to kill people instead of converting them when it's so convenient for you to do so, so you end up spamming it until they die or become Good. :smallfrown:

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

I think it's fantastic, but I'm not a huge fan of Purity Incarnate. The save-or-die aspect is fine, even considering the fact that it's at will, but it just seems kind of lame to go "Bam. You're Good now." Kind of makes rehabilitation seem cheap. Plus then you run into the issue of it being unethical to kill people instead of converting them when it's so convenient for you to do so, so you end up spamming it until they die or become Good. :smallfrown:

Well, first off, doing so kills you for a week. :smallbiggrin:

But you may be right. I'll edit that one, as it's the one I was most on-the-fence about...basically, I needed another 20th level ability. It now immediately heals your allies, revives those recently slain, and removes all negative effects from them...and also kills evil things nearby.

[Eurus]

Well, first off, doing so kills you for a week. :smallbiggrin:

But you may be right. I'll edit that one, as it's the one I was most on-the-fence about...basically, I needed another 20th level ability.

I actually did miss the fact that it kills you, heh. In that case, it's definitely not unbalanced mechanically, I'm just not sure about how that impacts the flavor.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

If anyone has time, I'd really appreciate some critique on the Unfettered Knight. I only have three days to get this thing contest-ready...:smalleek:

[JoshuaZ]

If anyone has time, I'd really appreciate some critique on the Unfettered Knight. I only have three days to get this thing contest-ready...:smalleek:

Well, I'd try to say something substantial but it looks very good. Minor remarks follows:

Unquenchable Fire of Purity- regarding mind effecting effects, some mind-effecting effects normally give you a new save if you would be otherwise ordered to do something against your normal inclinations and will be totally thrown off if you succeed on the save. It isn't clear from this wording if an Unfettered Knight were given an order that he wouldn't be forced to do by this ability if he would still get the new save. I presume he would, but it might be good to be explicit about that.

Hallowed Armaments of Zeal should be bolded.

Victory Assured looks a bit too powerful and should probably be (su) rather than ex. I'm a little worried that with everyone making every single save it means that as soon as you engage with almost any evil spellcaster, the spellcaster has lost. Maybe instead have it add something like a +15 bonus to the saves?


In a world where mortality is all to apparent
"to" should be "too."

Unfettered by Death only applies if the effect in question is one that would kill be hit point reduction yes? It might make sense to say that explicitly.

Also, maybe they should have intimidate as a class skill? After all, they should be pretty scary to evil if they want to be. And there are multiple useful things that fluff-wise an Unfettered Knight could use that for.

[DracoDei]

Seeing the power of the first ability, 2 abilities per level, and the high entry level, I suggest you consider spreading it out over more levels and make the entry level lower. Not necessarily 10 levels if that doesn't work well... 6-9 are all valid options.

The first ability is pretty good, but needs an "off" switch I think... looking the (demi-/monsterous)human(-oid) touch isn't something I would wish on most paladins from a RP perspective... they need to be able to comfort the one orphan they were able to save from the town (even if they have the 10,000 gp to spare to tell her "mommy and daddy will be back, don't worry") and bare hands work better for that than gauntlets. Also, despite most PC adventure's confirmed bachelor status, paladins make REALLY good husbands and fathers in many respects. I THINK most abilities can be turned off, but unless you add a pinch of sacrifice to the fluff for this (which is an option, though not the one I would recommend) you need to specify it explicitly).

Elemental (Good) is an interesting typing... do their unarmed/natural attacks now bypass DR as a Good weapon?


"Unquenchable Fires of Purity" - Consider forgetting the alphabet... this should be the first ability explained for clarity purpose I think.

"consecrated Zeal" - can the aura be dispelled(temporarily)? The thing about the Holy Symbol is a nice touch fluff wise, but mechanically really just means you don't need to carry spares in case of disarming (I approve).

"Hallowed Armaments of Zeal (Su): " needs bolding. CONSIDER making the Brilliant Energy part optional... but not being optional could be good too...
Wizard:*Shatters Holy Avenger*
Paladin: *Growls and conjures sword*
Wizard: *Sends in his Golems.*
Paladin: Drat.

Also: "suit of armor and a weapon" should be "and/or" to match the next part of the sentence.

Going to stop here for the moment...

[DragoonWraith]

Hmm... considering the number of entrants, and the fact that many have not been critiqued much at all (or at all), despite being complete for quite some time... perhaps an extension would be appropriate? Maybe closed to new entries but allow people to edit?

Cuz I really feel bad I haven't finished going through the builds, I kinda burned myself out a bit on that run.

[JoshuaZ]

Hmm... considering the number of entrants, and the fact that many have not been critiqued much at all (or at all), despite being complete for quite some time... perhaps an extension would be appropriate? Maybe closed to new entries but allow people to edit?

Cuz I really feel bad I haven't finished going through the builds, I kinda burned myself out a bit on that run.

This seems very reasonable.

Mildly rambling thoughts on the matter: What is the contest about? Contests which produce X can exist for one of two purposes 1) To determine who is best at making X 2) To encourage people to make interesting high quality Xs. Some contests emphasize one or the other to varying degrees. If one emphasizes the first reason, then changing rules late in a process in a way that will clearly advantage some individuals is problematic. However, the emphasis in this particular contest and most homebrewing contests in general is clearly on 2 rather than 1, so Dragoon's suggestion makes a lot of sense. The goal is to make good PrCs around a certain theme. A contest is primarily used because that's a fun way of doing this. An extension in this particular case to allow more time for review would help that goal.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Seeing the power of the first ability, 2 abilities per level, and the high entry level, I suggest you consider spreading it out over more levels and make the entry level lower. Not necessarily 10 levels if that doesn't work well... 6-9 are all valid options.

I thought about that, but I like the 15-20 capstone spread...the first ability is really strong, so I wanted that ability late.


The first ability is pretty good, but needs an "off" switch I think... looking the (demi-/monsterous)human(-oid) touch isn't something I would wish on most paladins from a RP perspective... they need to be able to comfort the one orphan they were able to save from the town (even if they have the 10,000 gp to spare to tell her "mommy and daddy will be back, don't worry") and bare hands work better for that than gauntlets. Also, despite most PC adventure's confirmed bachelor status, paladins make REALLY good husbands and fathers in many respects. I THINK most abilities can be turned off, but unless you add a pinch of sacrifice to the fluff for this (which is an option, though not the one I would recommend) you need to specify it explicitly).

That sort of the point. The Unfettered Knight isn't the "I'll care for the little orphan." They're more on the crusading side, and if I allow you to turn it off, it ruins the flavor of the spirit completely subsuming the body and turning the knight into a being powered by raw belief and purity. It is another sacrifice demanded of the knight, in a way.


Elemental (Good) is an interesting typing... do their unarmed/natural attacks now bypass DR as a Good weapon?

No. But their manifested weapon is a Holy weapon, making this the case.


"consecrated Zeal" - can the aura be dispelled(temporarily)? The thing about the Holy Symbol is a nice touch fluff wise, but mechanically really just means you don't need to carry spares in case of disarming (I approve).

Nope. It's a Supernatural ability, so no. That's how good you are.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Unfettered by Death only applies if the effect in question is one that would kill be hit point reduction yes? It might make sense to say that explicitly.

All death effects drop you to -10 hit points as part of the rules for death effects. This would therefore always kick in, short of soul-destroying magic.


Also, maybe they should have intimidate as a class skill? After all, they should be pretty scary to evil if they want to be. And there are multiple useful things that fluff-wise an Unfettered Knight could use that for.

Good point. Fixed.

[JoshuaZ]

All death effects drop you to -10 hit points as part of the rules for death effects. This would therefore always kick in, short of soul-destroying magic.



Hmm, so non-death effects that kill would still work then? Like disintegrate?

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Hmm, so non-death effects that kill would still work then? Like disintegrate?

Nope. Disintegrate deals damage, and thus drops you to -10. Things like unname would work, or perhaps a well-worded wish.

He's the spirit of a 20th level Paladin. He's a b**** to kill. :smallbiggrin:

[JoshuaZ]

Nope. Disintegrate deals damage, and thus drops you to -10. Things like unname would work, or perhaps a well-worded wish.

He's the spirit of a 20th level Paladin. He's a b**** to kill. :smallbiggrin:

It doesn't actually say that it drops you to -10 explicitly. So if you want this sort of thing to include it then it might be good to just be explicit about that.

[DracoDei]

I was going to suggest the "extend for further critiqueing, but no new entries after the 31st" thing myself.

[FlamingKobold]

Is there a rule against epic prestige classes? Because I have a cool idea for a class that, while it could be feasible as a normal prestige class is a lot cooler if it's epic. It's called the Guardian of the Thrice Damned. Here's the fluff, if anyone cares to read it.

The Thrice Damned is a small sect of people descended from an ancient society. Eons ago, in a world ruled over by now-dead gods whose names have been forgotten to history, a man by the name of Vareth Moor discovered a set of scrolls called the Somes Veritas Asalua. They detailed the most important secret in the multiverse: the motives of the gods. He discovered that in the divine realm, the gods laughed at the plights of mortals. They had purposely introduced chaos, plight, disease, corruption and disaster for their own amusement. This was not limited to the so called “evil” gods, for Vareth knew that the gods were all inherently evil, and only self interested. They lied to their priests and did naught but cause destruction.

In their rage at his discovery, the greater deities attempted to strike down Moor, but their most powerful magic only affected the scrolls, which were utterly eradicated from existence. Though the details of the Asalua have been forgotten, Vareth wrote a second set of scrolls, known as the Somes Veritas Esuvel, and became the first Guardian. He had discovered the secrets of the multiverse in their entirety, something that no god ever achieved.

With the gods seeking revenge on him and his family, Vareth selected the nine warriors that he deemed most worthy from throughout the world, and taught them all of the secrets he could. The ten Guardians of the Damned took up arms against the gods, and open warfare ensued. The Guardians prevailed, but had lost seven of their force, leaving only the three most powerful. Soon enough, Vareth, the ultimate peacekeeper, the supreme lord of mortals left the multiverse behind him in pursuit of other interests. This left only two. They tried to live in harmony, but it was impossible: they fought over everything and, over the centuries, then tension grew. Finally, they could stand it no longer and dueled.

Such was their power that neither could be beaten, but neither could prevail, and the fight could not end. In the end, each of them, recognizing that their generation spanning duel had harmed innocent civilians, decided that they, too, must leave the mortal realm, for the good of all. Their battle raged across the planes until, finally, they both lost. Neither ever came back, and neither was ever found. The only thing that is known is that they did, somehow, die, because another pantheon of deities rose to power, created from the raw power that they had released in death. This new pantheon saw the potential threat that the existence of such warriors brought, and so they, more powerful than the pantheon before them, performed the greatest work of magic ever known: they sealed the power of the Somes Veritas Esuvel.

However, the power was so great that it could never be completely sealed, only diminished. The readers of the Esuvel would still become mighty warriors, but never again to the extent of Vareth Moor. However, the wary Keepers of the Esuvel vowed to keep it bound until such time as it was needed. The gods, ever paranoid, and always treacherous, wanted mortals to never again unite against them, so they flung disaster after disaster at the Keepers of the Esuvel. They caused drought, floods, plagues, acid rain, and much more, but the Keepers persevered, and so became known as the Twice Damned. The gods, angered at their lack of success, ignored the past and again declared war on the Keepers.

The Keepers grudgingly unbound the ancient Esuvel and learned its secrets, creating six new warriors of the people. They fought the gods and again prevailed, with no mortal casualties. It seemed like a success for the Guardians, who now peaceably led a world of mortals without divine interference, but the peace was not to last. The Guardians had overlooked one being, Ao, the overgod. He had watch the millennia pass, enraged at the destruction of his creations, the gods. He circumvented the laws that had been set forth before his time and killed the family of every single Guardian. The Guardians, wise as they were, never suspected that this was a trick, and so they left the multiverse to combat Ao directly. Unfortunately for the mortals, it is impossible to re-enter the multiverse, so they could not escape as they watched Ao first unleash awful fates to their people and then easily crush their souls. And so the descendants of Vareth Moor had become Thrice Damned.

Ao created another pantheon, but, unbeknownst to him, there was a slight flaw in his plan. a small family of mortals who had left the rest of Vareth’s descendants, still held a copy of the Somes Veridas Esuvel. These people eventually became the sect known as the Thrice Damned, or the Followers of Vareth Moor, and are still alive today. The Guardian of the Thrice Damned is a champion, already an exemplar of martial power in the mortal realm, who has read the last remaining copy of the Somes Veridas Esuvel and is now a member of an ancient legacy of the greatest heroes in history.

Otherwise, I'll make it non-epic, and either make it 10 levels with earliest entry of 11th or 5 levels with entry 16th. Thoughts based off of fluff?

I lied, changed my mind.

[DracoDei]

No rule against Epic I am pretty sure. Will look at the fluff later.

[Latronis]

woah...try using paragraphs sport :smallbiggrin:

[DracoDei]

I have now simplified and clarified "Leap Attack (Float)" (and by extension the other Leap Attacks) thanks to some suggestions from DaTedinator. Some of the simplification upped the power level (you can now Power Attack and/or Shock Trooper) with Leap Attack. I am now not so worried about that and "Spears of the Heavens", although if I get a few more people telling me it is STILL to complicated, I might produce an alternate version of those for simpler games...

So... I have a LOT of material up there (and the example character still isn't finished!)... more feedback, even just on different PARTS of it from different people would be nice ( :smallbiggrin: And, of course, I still expect a full and through review from DragoonWraith :smallbiggrin: (actually I am not counting on it, and won't hold it against him if he doesn't get that far at all...) ).

[FlamingKobold]

Okay, so I already have trouble making decisions and actually keeping them, as you may have noticed, and this super vague topic isn't really helping.

Would a re-vamp (extreme, trust me) of the Drunken master be okay? I'm not entirely sure what I'd do, but it would be either

a) Making a Drunken fist martial discipline that only they have access to. The discipline weapons would be improvised weapons, of course. Recovery mechanic would probably be drinking :smallsmile: and it would advance like the ur-priest, that is, they get a new level of maneuvers every level, and get a super awesome capstone.

or

b) Give them a pool of "drunk points." Drinking gives them more points. They gain an AC and strength bonus equal to the points, while they take an int and/or wisdom penalty equal to half of the points. As they level, they unlock things that they can spend the points on (including the iconic one, like for medicinal purposes, fire breathing, corkscrew charge, etc)

thoughts?

[DracoDei]

Either could be good... but I would recommend working fast... approximately 24 hours to go (for new entries?)...

[FlamingKobold]

Don't I have through the 31st? If so I have 48 :) Which do you think would be cooler? I'm kind of leaning towards the points sytem, myself.

[DracoDei]

Since I never liked the Drunken Master prestige class in the first place, I do not think I am someone whose opinion on the matter you should cultivate.

[Latronis]

Someone peach my deathbringer crunch plox >_<

[Glimbur]

Subtle but powerful changes to the SssSsSss meldshaping. Now you get a choice: either progress a previous meldshaping class, or get Expanded Knowledge and some bonus Essentia. Either way, Meldshaper level is now equal to character level mostly so (non Incarnum Class)3/SssSsSss10/X characters can continue having a chance against SR and dispels and such after maxing out SssSsSss levels. It makes a dip slightly better, but I don't like how every soulmeld allows SR anyway, so helping people step around that is fine by me. I guess I could add a general rule to my works so that natural weapon soulmelds ignore SR/


Deathbringer PEACH

So, the fluff I'm getting here is that you're a whirlwind of carnage across the battlefield, killing in Bhaal's name. I'll question and suggest accordingly.

ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
Prereq: BAB: +4
Skills: Intimidate 8 ranks, Knowledge (Religion) 4 ranks.
Feats: Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Deathblow, Improved Initiative, Skill Focus: Intimidate.
Special: Special Training in a church of Bhaal.
Alignment: Any Evil.
That's a lot of feats to require. Death Blow is thematic, but mechanically pretty garbage, unless the PrC provides ways to make people helpless as a move or swift action, anyway. Skill Focus: Intimidate is likewise questionable. I was going to ask about the Cleave tree, but it makes sense here especially since you give out Supreme Cleave. Improved Initiative could go, just so we need one less feat. Then you'd have to drop Death Blow too.

+4 BAB and 8 ranks in a skill suggests a martial entry, but all these required feats means Human Fighter 4/Rogue or Ranger or Barbarian 1 has exactly zero free feats.

Class Skills
A Deathbringer's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are:
Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str)

Looks like a martial skill list. I like that Spot is on there because everyone should be able to see things.

Skills Points at Each Level : 2 + Int modifier.

Pretty standard too

Hit Dice: d12
I get more of an aggressive vibe, rather than an enduring vibe, from this class. Maybe drop to d10. Not a big deal though.

Full BAB, only good Fort.

Of course it's full BAB. The saves also make sense, but I'd like some special ability to help with Will saves. We'll see what comes up.

Weapon Proficiencies: Deathbringers are proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with all armour (heavy, medium, and light) but not with shields.

Workable, but probably unnecessary as the fastest entry is via fighter (or feat rogue, but really?)

Aura of Evil(Ex)
Deathbringer levels stack with class levels that have an Aura of Evil(such as Clerics, Blackguards, variant paladins etc) to determine his Aura's power. A DM may decide that the Deathbringer's connection to Bhaal would grant an aura of evil, if so the power of a deathbringer’s aura of evil (see the detect evil spell) should be equal to his class level plus his cleric level, if any.

Flavor. I'd take the DM discretion out of this and simply give them an Aura of Evil without leaving it to DM choice. Good flavor/

Intimidating Presence(Ex)
A deathbringer's stance and extensive knowledge of fear and how to turn that to advantage gives the deathbringer a +1 bonus to intimidate checks per 2 deathbringer levels.

In addition one of the earliest things a deathbringer learns is how to demoralize foes simply by locking eyes with them, a deathbringer can make an intimidate check to demoralize a foe as a swift action instead of a standard action.

Are you sure you want to make the bonus untyped? I'd consider making it Profane, because untyped bonuses are powerful. Intimidate can actually be pretty powerful, I'd give it as a move action here or a level later and as a swift action deeper in the class

Supreme Cleave(Ex): A Deathbringer can take a 5-foot step between attacks when using the Cleave or Great Cleave feat. He is still limited to one such adjustment per round, so he cannot use this ability during a round in which he has already taken a 5-foot step.

In addition even if you fail to drop an opponent with an extra attack granted by the Great Cleave feat, you can still make an extra attack against another eligible foe (including after a 5ft adjustment if applicable) as though you had dropped the previous enemy; though you may only make one such attack per round.

Wording is good enough. Fits flavor well.

Deathbringer Assault(Ex)
As a result of the Deathbringer's brutal training a deathbringer can sometimes affect an impressive display of carnage known as a Deathbringer Assault, often destroying an opponent with a single blow.

Whenever the character triggers a Deathbringer Assault he automatically deals maximum damage with that attack and deals 1 extra point of damage per deathbringer level. Striking a cowering, prone or character otherwise denied a dexerity bonus to AC can trigger a Deathbringer Assault but not more than once per round. If the attack misses, no extra damage is dealt, but the deathbringer assault is still considered used for that round.

A coup de grace or a critical hit automatically triggers a Deathbringer Assault even if it has already been triggered in that round. The damage is of the same type of the base weapon used, but it is not multiplied by critical hits. This works on foes normally immune to critical hits, but they only take half of the Deathbringer Assault's extra damage(and no extra damage from a critical hit as normal) Constructs are immune to Deathbringer Assaults.

Deathbringer Assault does not work if the Deathbringer uses his weapon to deal non-lethal damage, or if the opponent is not adjacent to the deathbringer. Any attacks that do not use the character's Strength modifier to hit cannot trigger a Deathbringer Assault.

If a deathbringer ever doesn't have a strength modifier(Strength falling below 12) than the character cannot trigger a Deathbringer Assault until his strength returns to a positive modifier.

If a Deathbringer Assault brings a character to the dying condition (damage resulting in HP less than 0), that creature is instead killed by the Deathbringer Assault. This is a non-magical death effect.

If the target of a Deathbringer Assault was a living creature the Deathbringer Assault will also trigger the deathbringer's Frightful Presence.

I'd tighten up the wording here; explain every way to trigger it first, then all its effects.
Deathbringer Assault:
Fluff goes here.

Once per round, a Deathbringer can activate a Deathbringer Assault as a free action. A Deathbringer Assault is a melee attack (your rules don't make it melee only but it seems to fit... otherwise throwing weapons could activate it) that only has an effect on a target who is cowering, prone or otherwise denied a dexerity bonus to AC. In addition, a Coup De Grace or critical hit automatically activates a Deathbringer Assault even if one has already been used this round. A critical hit on a foe normally immune to critical hits still activates Deathbringer Assault, but only for half the bonus damage, except for Constructs who are immune to Deathbringer Assault (did you want to make Undead immune too, as they're not really alive?)

A Deathbringer Assault fails to activate if the Deathbringer is striking for nonlethal damage, has a Strength Modifer less than +1, or is using an attack that does not add strength modifier to damage (a multiple of strength modifier, such as a two handed weapon, is ok and will not cause the Assault to fail)

A successful Deathbringer Assault does maximum damage (treat all dice for damage as maximized) and one extra point of damage for each class level the Deathbringer has. If a Deathbringer Assault brings a character to the dying condition (damage resulting in HP less than 0), that creature is instead killed by the Deathbringer Assault. This is a non-magical death effect. If the target of a Deathbringer Assault was a living creature the Deathbringer Assault will also trigger the deathbringer's Frightful Presence.

Now that that's cleaned up, I can state that it's pretty weak. The difficulty of activating it versus the bonus damage it provides is just not very good. I would change the bonus damage to two or three times the level in Deathbringer. To really use this I would go for a wide crit range, which generally isn't optimal compared to focusing on Power Attack. Flavorful, but kind of weak overall.

Greater Deathbringer Assault(Ex)
A deathbringer has learnt how to make the most of brutal style and now his deathbringer assaults are even more lethal. A greater deathbringer assault now deals 2 additional damage per deathbringer level, and the opponent is forced to make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + Deathbringer's class level + the Deathbringer's strength modifier) or die. This is a non-magical death effect.

Any foe slain by the Greater Deathbringer Assault are killed in such a way(decapitated, hacked apart, etc) that the foe cannot be brought back via a raise dead spell.

Living creatures within 5 feet of the slain foe who witness the greater deathbringer assault need to make a Will save (DC 10 + Deathbringer's class level + the Deathbringer's strength modifier) to avoid becoming sickened for 1 round + 1 round per 2 deathbringer levels. The deathbringer is immune to this effect.

Fort save or die on every crit? That's an Epic feat. I might Panic the target with a Will save to negate instead. I do like the enhanced damage, feel free to kick it up to 3 or 4 times class level.

Ultimate Deathbringer Assault(Ex)
A deathbringer eventually becomes so adept at hacking through his foes that he can now perform the Ultimate Deathbringer Assault.

Foes normally immune to critical hits now take full damage from the Deathbringer Assault(The extra damage from the critical hit itself is still negated as normal) and even constructs must 'fear' his destructive potential(though constructs remain immune to the fortitude save effects as normal)

The ultimate deathbringer assault is no longer considered a death effect(so foes normally immune to death effects still risk dying on a failed save) And any living creatures within 5 feet of the slain foe who witness the ultimate deathbringer assault need to make a Will save (DC 10 + Deathbringer's class level + the Deathbringer's strength modifier) or become Nauseated for 1d4+1 rounds. Foes that succeed on the will save are sickened for 1 round.

Here's our capstone. This is what makes the class really cool. It would be nice to be more clear that constructs fearing the Assault means that it will work on them now. Death as a non-death effect is scary good. Nausea is also a mean condition to inflict. Maybe I'm being held back by the idea that melee shouldn't have nice things, but the ability to threaten instant death on every crit with the standard ways to avoid it (heavy fortification, Deathward, etc) not working seems too good. Perhaps drop the foe to 1 hp, keep the splash effect of nausea on things near it but make the radius 5 feet time strength modifier, and count it as a downed enemy for for purposes of Cleave?

Also, kick up the bonus damage again, to about 5 times class level.

Aura of Despair(Su)
A deathbringer's connection to the lord of murder grants him immunity to the fear he uses as a weapon while allowing him to radiate a malign aura that causes enemies within 10 feet of him to take a -2 penalty on all saving throws.

This ability functions while the deathbringer is conscious, but not if he is unconscious or dead.

Useful. Maybe make the radius 5 feet per class level.

Escalate Fear(Ex)
While most deathbringers revel in the fear they cause, they also know that turning what already exists into something greater is just as effective. By making an intimidate check as if demoralising a foe(including as a swift action if desired with intimidating presence)

(1d20 + character level or Hit Dice + target’s Wisdom bonus + target’s modifiers on saves against fear)
they can escalate a foe's condition of fear. A character who is shaken becomes frightened and a frightened character becomes panicked. If used on a foe that is already panicked, that foe becomes paralysed with fear, and will cower even if some avenue of escape is still available. Because dialing up the fear through his ability to brow beat alone becomes more difficult the more frightened the target they receive an additional bonus of 2 for each step of fear to resist the escalate fear effect.

This has no effect on a foe not already at least shaken, though the deathbringer can demoralise or cause that condition in some other way first.

Slight grammar issues, but whatever. Useful. Does this affect the duration of the fear effect?

Hand of Murder(Su)
The Deathbringer may channel a fraction of Bhaal's power into his weapon, for one round. The Deathbringer deals an additional 1d4 points of negative energy damage per hit and 1 vile damage.

Damage is multiplied on critical hits and any negative energy damage dealt through this abililty is transferred as healing to the deathbringer. Any healing increasing hitpoints beyond the character's maximum is gained as temporary hitpoints which disappear 1 hour later.

As negative energy damage the ability will heal undead.

Like the deathbringer Assault, Hand of Murder does not work on Constructs.

Activating Hand of Murder is a Swift action, and will not function on any round where a weapon is used to deal non-lethal damage.

Hand of Murder can only be used a number of rounds equal to the deathbringer's class level modified by his charisma modifier, though they do not need to be used consecutively.

Flavorful and somewhat useful, but the damage dealt is a little small. Maybe 1d4 per two class levels, with one Vile damage per two class levels?

Frightful Presence(Ex)
A Deathbringer's very presence is unsettling to foes. Creatures within a radius of 30 feet are subject to the effect if they have fewer Hitdice than the Deathbringer whenever he charges or triggers a deathbringer assault.

A potentially affected creature that succeeds on a Will save (DC 10 + ½ Deathbringer's class levels + Cha modifier) remains immune to the frightful presence for 24 hours.

On a failure, creatures with 4 or less hitdice become Frightened for 1d6 rounds per 2 deathbringer levels. Those with 5 or more hitice become shaken for 1d6 rounds per 2 deathbringer levels.

Not a bad way to deal with weaker foes. Combo this with Escalate Fear and you've got something. Keep it.

Vicinity of Obscenity(Su)
The Deathbringer's Aura improves now empowering any of his allies attacks against his foes. As long as any foe is affected by the deathbringer's aura of despair any of his allies within 150' receive a profane bonus to hit, damage and critical confirmation rolls against panicked or cowering, prone or nauseated opponents equal to half of the deathbringer's class levels(round down).

It's a little weird that this class is giving out buffs to allies.

Eyes of Terror(Su)
Once per day per point of Charisma modifier, the deathbringer can channel its frightful presence into a potent attack as if it had a Gaze Attack.

Creatures struck by this horrific attack who fail their Will save(as frightful presence) are panicked for 1d4+1 rounds; creatures who succeed on their save are shaken for 1 round. This attack, unlike the frightful presence, functions against creatures of any hitdice.

This attack follows all the normal rules for characters actively using a gaze as an attack but gives no other benefits of a Gaze Attack.

Whatever the result of the attack the Deathbringer's Frightful Presence is considered suppressed and cannot be reactivated for 1d4+1 rounds.

Gaze Attacks are powerful... except when you only get the active part of it. This will start the target down the fear track, at least. What kind of action is this? I would suggest Swift.

Dire Charge(Ex)
The Deathbringer gains the Dire Charge feat as a bonus feat even if he didn't meet the prerequisites. If he already has Dire Charge he may select another feat he meets the requirements for.

Just give them Pounce, it's better. Pull this up to about fourth level at the latest.

Master of Dread(Ex)
A Deathbringer becomes so adept at manipulating fear in others that intimidate checks to demoralise foes or escalate fear, as well as his frightful presence and Eyes of Terror abilities have become so potent as to affect even those individuals normally immune to fear(such as paladins) although the subject still gains a saving throw\opposed check.

Only those who exceed your character level by 4 or more hitdice are immune to your dread mastery.

Make it also work on people immune to [Mind Affecting] things, like people under a mind blank, and you've got a deal. Consider whether or not you want things immune to [Mind Affecting] due to type, like Constructs and Undead, to stay immune or not. That could go either way.

General Musings

It'd be nice to get all the class abilities in order of when you get them, but that's not a big deal.

I'd like some sort of fear lengthening effect in the mid levels, making every fear effect you cause last a round longer or Cha mod longer would be bully. I'm suggesting a dead level at 8, so it could go there.

Pull out Vicinity of Obscenity and put in something like Contempt of the Killer, which lets you add Cha to will saves as a Profane bonus but doesn't stack with Divine Grace or similar abilities. Or let it stack, whatever.

Overall, this looks to be a fear focused PrC with some abilities to beat up people on crits too. I was expecting more of a retooled assassin before I started reading, but this is clearly more of a warrior than a sneak. Which is ok.

tl;dr It's fear focused with minor crit abilities. Drop the SoD, kick up bonus damage from all sources, and clarify a couple of things.

[Vaynor]

Could I possibly get some feedback on the Protector before the contest is over?

[DracoDei]

If I weren't so exhausted... still I might try at some point.

[FlamingKobold]

I'll try to get around to looking it over, Vaynor, hopefully tonight. Just posted crunch of the Drunken Master (Thinking about changing the name).. I did my best to make it as cinematic as possible, doing all the things Jackie Chan did. Thoughts?

[DracoDei]

AT a quick glance, "absorb pain" needs a duration.

[FlamingKobold]

Thanks for pointing that out, it's class level rounds.

[JoshuaZ]

Ok, now looking at Bloodbow and then Drunken Master.

Bloodbow- You need to specify when abilities are either supernatural or extraordinary.


Entry Requirements
Race: Orc or Half-Orc
Base Attack Bonus: +5
Feats: Weapon Focus (Bow), Toughness or Improved Toughness{from Complete Warrior}


There are a variety of different types of bows. Do you want this to apply to any of them? If so, you may want to say Weapon Focus for any type of bow or something like that. I think it shouldn't apply to crossbows then. Anyways, needs specification.


The bloodbow is a relatively new member of orc society, but they have quickly gained a fearsome reputation. The first bloodbow, Kraunk One-Eye, was a blackguard said to be marked by Gruumsh himself. He was famous for visiting blindness upon his foes while circling them on his wild stallion. Another famous bloodbow was the half-orc Myev the Noble, a rare half-orc paladin. She claimed to bleed for all the innocents slain by her father's people, and died harrying a band of orcs long enough for townsfolk to escape. Arguably the most famous, however, was Thamior the Bearded, a half-elf. After forming a close friendship with his half-orc barbarian companion, they returned to his tribe and "convinced" the shaman to teach Thamior the ways of the bloodbow. He is said to have gone on and discovered a method by which to fire his arrows without damaging himself, and to drastically increase their range.

As you've constructed the class, Thamior can't take it, not being of orcish ancestry. Probably the best way to handle this is to let people who aren't orcs take it if they receive training from an orc or half bloodbow and just note that this is very rare.

I would also consider giving them a good reflex save.


Now on to the Drunken Master:

This is in many ways better done than the standard Drunken Master which I never liked much. The "drunk points" mechanic is a nice touch.

For medicinal purposes maybe should only give temporary hp rather than healing. Thus, when they sober up, they feel the old damage.

It might also make sense to allow a monk who is a drunken master to cease to be lawful and still maintain all the monk features and continue to progress as a monk.

[FlamingKobold]

Okay, a lot of changes to many of the abilities.

[Latronis]

well fluff should be up later today, basically it's drawn from about 2 lines of description. Given a bit more flair suitable for the 3.X rules.

Warriors trained in the art of intimidation and war. They can scare their enemies into paralyzation by locking eye contact, and the ability to destroy an opponent in a single blow. And Sarevok studied the most brutal forms of combat to become a deathbringer.

There's is a possible implication of deathbringer's(created by bioware it would seem) being apart of bhaal's church but it's a tenuous link I just decided to use.

(Baldur's Gate, Sarevok)


That's a lot of feats to require. Death Blow is thematic, but mechanically pretty garbage, unless the PrC provides ways to make people helpless as a move or swift action, anyway. Skill Focus: Intimidate is likewise questionable. I was going to ask about the Cleave tree, but it makes sense here especially since you give out Supreme Cleave. Improved Initiative could go, just so we need one less feat. Then you'd have to drop Death Blow too.

Well deathblow is more useful if the DM allows it to trigger cleave attempts too (i would) but that's not strictly RAW, also It might be better if i can just cut out the extra sources, and leave the prereqs as core feats. So the power attack line is probably the most 'brutal' core fighting style attainable at the starting levels.

Improved Initiative also leads into dire charge, but since i'm changing that it can go.

Skill Focus while not a great feat, isn't inherently bad especially when several abilities use the skill in question. And it does imply a certain investment that's flavourful.

That leaves Power Attack - Cleave - Great Cleave - Skill Focus: Intimidate.

Easier to get in, and human fighters still have the easiest time.


[color=red]I get more of an aggressive vibe, rather than an enduring vibe, from this class. Maybe drop to d10. Not a big deal though.

Full BAB, only good Fort.

Of course it's full BAB. The saves also make sense, but I'd like some special ability to help with Will saves. We'll see what comes up.

Good point d10 it is, also I think cha to saves will suffice.


Workable, but probably unnecessary as the fastest entry is via fighter (or feat rogue, but really?)

Seems fairly standard for martial PrC's to give out the proficiencies even when it is mostly pointless.


Flavor. I'd take the DM discretion out of this and simply give them an Aura of Evil without leaving it to DM choice. Good flavor/

Yeah i guess those kinda choices are best discussed in the adaptation section.


Are you sure you want to make the bonus untyped? I'd consider making it Profane, because untyped bonuses are powerful. Intimidate can actually be pretty powerful, I'd give it as a move action here or a level later and as a swift action deeper in the class

I guess not, i already had the drop the bonus from 1 per level given how damn easy was looking at becoming to force cower with nigh unbeatable DCs. Penalising the DCs and dropping the bonus makes it more reasonable(without trying to abuse it) Giving it a type may help, though is profane really going to make a difference? how many profane bonuses are there compared to other types?(so in other words is a profane bonus going to end up being effectively an untyped bonus anyway?)

Also Demoralise as a move action isn't that much better. Though stepping it up a little slower might make it less dippable (not that i think it really is atm)

May even make it AoE'able yet.


I'd tighten up the wording here; explain every way to trigger it first, then all its effects.

Now that that's cleaned up, I can state that it's pretty weak. The difficulty of activating it versus the bonus damage it provides is just not very good. I would change the bonus damage to two or three times the level in Deathbringer. To really use this I would go for a wide crit range, which generally isn't optimal compared to focusing on Power Attack. Flavorful, but kind of weak overall.

Well I did say they had to be adjacant, melee is the most obvious. I guess you could hurl something if you want to eat an AoO or burn more feats to do so. Might aswell clarify melee only, that was the intent. Also allowing reach is a little off(it should be up close and personal), so it'd still need to state adjacant foes.

While mechanically undead are destroyed much like constructs, they are still connected to death. Destroying undead are basically re-deading them. As is undead are less affected by it until later

Once per round, a Deathbringer can activate a Deathbringer Assault as a free action. A Deathbringer Assault is a melee attack (your rules don't make it melee only but it seems to fit... otherwise throwing weapons could activate it) that only has an effect on a target who is cowering, prone or otherwise denied a dexerity bonus to AC. In addition, a Coup De Grace or critical hit automatically activates a Deathbringer Assault even if one has already been used this round. A critical hit on a foe normally immune to critical hits still activates Deathbringer Assault, but only for half the bonus damage, except for Constructs who are immune to Deathbringer Assault (did you want to make Undead immune too, as they're not really alive?)

A Deathbringer Assault fails to activate if the Deathbringer is striking for nonlethal damage, has a Strength Modifer less than +1, or is using an attack that does not add strength modifier to damage (a multiple of strength modifier, such as a two handed weapon, is ok and will not cause the Assault to fail)

A successful Deathbringer Assault does maximum damage (treat all dice for damage as maximized) and one extra point of damage for each class level the Deathbringer has. If a Deathbringer Assault brings a character to the dying condition (damage resulting in HP less than 0), that creature is instead killed by the Deathbringer Assault. This is a non-magical death effect. If the target of a Deathbringer Assault was a living creature the Deathbringer Assault will also trigger the deathbringer's Frightful Presence.


Fort save or die on every crit? That's an Epic feat. I might Panic the target with a Will save to negate instead. I do like the enhanced damage, feel free to kick it up to 3 or 4 times class level.

Here's our capstone. This is what makes the class really cool. It would be nice to be more clear that constructs fearing the Assault means that it will work on them now. Death as a non-death effect is scary good. Nausea is also a mean condition to inflict. Maybe I'm being held back by the idea that melee shouldn't have nice things, but the ability to threaten instant death on every crit with the standard ways to avoid it (heavy fortification, Deathward, etc) not working seems too good. Perhaps drop the foe to 1 hp, keep the splash effect of nausea on things near it but make the radius 5 feet time strength modifier, and count it as a downed enemy for for purposes of Cleave?

Also, kick up the bonus damage again, to about 5 times class level.


On second thoughts, yeah SoD every crit is a little excessive, though removing the death altogether not really what i want. It's supposed to be a death-dealing attack.

Thoughts on how to tone down that aspect of it? I don't think a save or die is unreasonable for a melee class. Especially since they won't be getting it before casters start getting theirs and has a fair amount of the class to get through before it happens.

No SoD on crits? (only cowering\helpless) Once an individual has saved can't be effected by it again?


Useful. Maybe make the radius 5 feet per class level.

5+5 per 2 class levels. (cap out at 30') Quite reasonable for offensive auras, and that way the splash effect saves of the deathbringer assault is penalised by the aura as is the saves of the frightful presence of anyone else close to the effect but not within reach.


Slight grammar issues, but whatever. Useful. Does this affect the duration of the fear effect?

Do you think it should lessen the duration?


Flavorful and somewhat useful, but the damage dealt is a little small. Maybe 1d4 per two class levels, with one Vile damage per two class levels?

obviously healing combined with a damage buff for no unique action (just attacking) can't be *too* high.

I'll do some number crunching see if i can find something a little closer to say.. an equal level paladin's lay on hands


Not a bad way to deal with weaker foes. Combo this with Escalate Fear and you've got something. Keep it.

Eventually eyes of terror + escalate too for a more reliable start. Though the presence does have the advantage of activating on the charge(and deathbringer assault triggers)


It's a little weird that this class is giving out buffs to allies.

Perhaps..


Gaze Attacks are powerful... except when you only get the active part of it. This will start the target down the fear track, at least. What kind of action is this? I would suggest Swift.

Actively using a gaze, is normally an attack action. While a swift action might be more powerful normally that does mean you can't escalate(swift) the fear state the same round. Though that itself may be too powerful. But on the otherhand it is inherently a martial class, you don't really want to be spending every other round not whacking what wants a whacking.


Just give them Pounce, it's better. Pull this up to about fourth level at the latest.

Well I generally allow dire charge to be taken about the 3rd iterative attack point, so it's a free thematically appropiate feat with some synergy with the other class abilities, useful enough to be considered a class ability. Though given that's houseruling i never really thought about it might aswell be full on pounce to avoid confusion with the epic feats.


[color=red]Make it also work on people immune to [Mind Affecting] things, like people under a mind blank, and you've got a deal. Consider whether or not you want things immune to [Mind Affecting] due to type, like Constructs and Undead, to stay immune or not. That could go either way.

Good point, the HD limit enough of a limiting factor? I think i'll clarify it as living foes.


It'd be nice to get all the class abilities in order of when you get them, but that's not a big deal.

Took me a while to understand this. I bought the deathbringer assault together because i think of it as advancement. That's easy enough to divide up.


I'd like some sort of fear lengthening effect in the mid levels, making every fear effect you cause last a round longer or Cha mod longer would be bully. I'm suggesting a dead level at 8, so it could go there.

Pull out Vicinity of Obscenity and put in something like Contempt of the Killer, which lets you add Cha to will saves as a Profane bonus but doesn't stack with Divine Grace or similar abilities. Or let it stack, whatever.


Honestly I wouldn't mind a greater charisma focus. Stacking with divine grace wouldn't be a good idea I don't think, While it's not possible to jump straight in at lv6, all it takes is a decent amount of paladin of tyranny\slaughter or blackguard to get 2x charisma to saves(or at least will saves). Contempt of the Killer.. Awesome name, better than the blackguards boring dark blessing.

Though Su like paladin\blackguard or Ex?


Overall, this looks to be a fear focused PrC with some abilities to beat up people on crits too. I was expecting more of a retooled assassin before I started reading, but this is clearly more of a warrior than a sneak. Which is ok.

Don't forget helpless and cowering foes!

But yes: Intimidation, Fear and an Ass-Whuppin.

[Kerleth]

Ok, I added in when the abilities are supernatural or extroadinary and changed it to weapon focus (longbow). The implication with Thamior was that he used the Orcish Blood Brother feat near the bottom to gain entry, making him all the more unique. That said, noone can be expected to know it as good as it's creator, so I added in a note in the requirements section to keep it from just looking like a mistake. I think I'm going to add in a good reflex like you suggested as well. The bloodbow is actually a port from a custom 3.X system I play in, where the nonlethal damage works a little differently. Adding in the reflex save should balance it back out for normal 3.5 I think. Thanks for the help.

[DracoDei]

Well deathblow is more useful if the DM allows it to trigger cleave attempts too (i would) but that's not strictly RAW
You could always add that change to Cleave mechanics as a 1st level ability...

[ErrantX]

Last day of the contest folks, then the voting, then I kill this thread (and everyone in it) to start the next contest fresh!

-X

[FlamingKobold]

Alright, I have all the fluff up except for a sample character, in addition to all of the crunch, but it's only been peached by one person :smallfrown:

[DracoDei]

Have provided a shortish entry for the Burmecian race for use as PCs, and I think my Sample Encounter is done (and actually in more detail than most).

[FlamingKobold]

Somehow I actually managed to finish, and this has inspired me to make a whole host of other Alcohol Based Prestige classes (Even for spellcasters :smallsmile:)

[Latronis]

Changes to Deathbringer:

Contempt of the Killer added at 3rd level. (Cha mod to will saves(non-stacking))

Aura of Despair's Radius now improves with odd levels up to 30'

Replaced Dire Charge with Pounce and moved upto 4th level as suggested.

Made Demoralizing a move action with Intimidating presence and improves to swift action at 5th when they learn to escalate fear. Clarified the duration of the intial fear effect is unchanged when escalating fear (advanced effect uses remaining duration of initial effect with a minium of 1 round)

Split Supreme Cleave into 2 effects granting the take another cleave attempt anyway effect at 6th level.

Added Cow the Horde at 7th, allowing you to demoralize in a 30' area of effect around you.

Eyes of Terror can be used as either a move or action action as you choose.

Split Hand of Murder into 2 steps, improving the damage with levels starting at 4th(Touch of Murder) and increasing the die size and uses at 8th(Hand of Murder)

Master of Dread now also increases the duration of any fear effects you bestow by your cha mod(capped by class level)

Deathbringer Assault Tidied up. Increased the Damage of all 3 steps. Moved the sicken splash effect to the basic assault. Allowed the damage of Greater and Ultimate assaults to overcome regeneration. Clarified constructs take full bonus damage from ultimate assaults. Removed the Save or Die effect altogether. Also because it now slays via damage, reducing the hp to below 0 will trigger cleave attempts by RAW.

Most of The Deathbringers in the World Fluff finished.

Added an Image.

[ErrantX]

Okay, contest is closed, I will get a voting thread and system up today. I was thinking of having three groups of entries, each voter votes once per group, and at the end, I will put the top three together and see how it goes.

Sound good to you all?

-X

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Okay, contest is closed, I will get a voting thread and system up today. I was thinking of having three groups of entries, each voter votes once per group, and at the end, I will put the top three together and see how it goes.

Sound good to you all?

-X

I'd change it to a "Vote for your favorite three" format. Otherwise people could be unfairly eliminated by having two crowd favorites in the same group, while another group has classes that aren't as well liked. See the problem there?

Example:

Classes A, B, and C are the universal favorites.
Classes D, E, F, G, H, and I aren't really well liked.

The groups are as follows:

A, B, D
E, F, G
C, H, I

Although A, B, and C are the most loved, a vote-off between them can never happen, since a winner from group 2 will make the final cut.

[ErrantX]

That's why I keep you around Djinn :smallbiggrin:

-X

[Lord_Gareth]

Here I thought it was his sexy body and near-encyclopedic knowledge of the true names of various succubi & eryines.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Here I thought it was is sexy body and near-encyclopedic knowledge of the true names of various succubi & eryines.

Well, that certainly doesn't count against me. :smallwink:

[JoshuaZ]

I'd change it to a "Vote for your favorite three" format. Otherwise people could be unfairly eliminated by having two crowd favorites in the same group, while another group has classes that aren't as well liked. See the problem there?

Example:

Classes A, B, and C are the universal favorites.
Classes D, E, F, G, H, and I aren't really well liked.

The groups are as follows:

A, B, D
E, F, G
C, H, I

Although A, B, and C are the most loved, a vote-off between them can never happen, since a winner from group 2 will make the final cut.

So maybe do vote for favorite three, and then of the two highest from that have a run-off?

[ErrantX]

Voting thread is up! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140539)

Vote now! Get everyone to vote!

-X

[Mulletmanalive]

Drunken Fist:

I like the class: one important point is that action comments need including on all actions that are connected to specific actions. Free actions are a simple and clear up questions.

[Latronis]

I got called into work before i could finish the fluff :(

[Xzoltar]

Unfettered Knight Playtest

The Character this time is a Aasimar (or the equivalent of this in our games) that sacrifice himself to save her wife and children of a demon attack, after dying he just come back later and did is best to save them, but some die anyway... Now he defend a sanctum from all intruder.

The Playtest was not quite useful because the group wasnt using any undead or evil creature. The group is Neutral to Good, so I will do another playtest as now the Knight was convinced to help them (as they waren't intruder but seeking help) So in maybe 1-2 session it should be but to play against a horde of Evil...

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

AMAZING contest, everyone. It contained some of the best work I've seen on this forum, and, as such, I hope to see each and every one of you (and more) in future contests.

That said...I figured that, if I'm going to provide an image to the first man or woman to overthrow me, a sub-par one wouldn't do at all. With that in mind, here's some more professionally done incentive. :smallbiggrin:

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t265/Djinn_in_Tonic/BeatenDjinn.png

See you all next thread, and next contest!

[Salvonus]

This contest is fixed. That's the only reasonable explanation. :smallwink:

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

This contest is fixed. That's the only reasonable explanation. :smallwink:

You may be right. :smalleek:

If it is, though, this is the first I've heard of it. :smalltongue:

[Owrtho]

That said...I figured that, if I'm going to provide an image to the first man or woman to overthrow me, a sub-par one wouldn't do at all. With that in mind, here's some more professionally done incentive.

But where is the Tonic? And why is the Djinn not in it (or rather no longer in it, as it should be currently)?

Owrtho

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

But where is the Tonic? And why is the Djinn not in it (or rather no longer in it, as it should be currently)?

Owrtho

Because I'm taking a graphic's arts course and specializing in vector art, and figured my namesake Djinn would be a good sample. I've fallen in love with this version of the little bugger, and haven't put him in the tonic yet...and may not.

Regardless, the Victory Banner looks better without the bottle...I did try it. Also, the winner will still get the old one as well...he or she may pick and choose. :smallbiggrin:

[Latronis]

Honestly I preferred the old one, I think it invokes a better image of an ass-whuppin'

[Owrtho]

I'd also suggest making one for people who loose to you. Then they can brag about how badly you beat them.

Owrtho

[Latronis]

I'd also suggest making one for people who loose to you. Then they can brag about how badly you beat them.

Owrtho

I suggest Djinn beating them to death with the trophy\cup

[DragoonWraith]

Djinn in Trophy?

[Xallace]

While the image looks good, it totally ruins my theory that Djinn is carried around on a serving platter by his man-servant Jethro, who occasionally (at Djinn's direction) gesticulates wildly to accentuate whatever Djinn's saying.


Also, awesome contest. Awesome batch of entries, almost-but-not-entirely nailbiting finish, and some sweet, sweet motivation for the next one. I wanna congratulate everybody for giving everybody else a run for their money (I swear it happened, even if the votes seemed to show otherwise).

That said, I am so done with this contest. Felt like it went on a lot longer than any of the others... I'm very ready for the next one.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

While the image looks good, it totally ruins my theory that Djinn is carried around on a serving platter by his man-servant Jethro, who occasionally (at Djinn's direction) gesticulates wildly to accentuate whatever Djinn's saying.

This is so awesome I can barely find words to describe it. I'll have to make some up. "Flargnarbitty", perhaps. Or "pernickalicious."

I have to draw this one out.

[ErrantX]

Congrats to Djinn_In_Tonic for winning this contest with the Unfettered Knight. Great class man!

There was a ton of great classes in this contest, and I sincerely hope you all bookmarked this contest thread because of it. Congrats as well to Lord_Gareth and to Xallace for making it into the final three from such a great bunch of classes!

-X

P.S. Now I gotta ask you all... who will upset the Djinn?!?! :D

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Now I gotta ask you all... who will upset the Djinn?!?! :D

Can we start placing bets? 'Cause my money's on DragoonWraith or Lord_Gareth.

That said, we have some excellent up-and-comers in this contest...I'm really looking forward to seeing all their entries for the next contest (hint, hint, hint...MUST HAVE NEW CONTEST IMMEDIATELY!). :smallbiggrin:

[Xallace]

This is so awesome I can barely find words to describe it. I'll have to make some up. "Flargnarbitty", perhaps. Or "pernickalicious."

I have to draw this one out.

I demand a copy. :smallbiggrin:

[DragoonWraith]

Wow, thank you. That's high praise! I appreciate it.

Also, I don't know if you saw my edit in the Soul Tinker thread - I did make that multiclass Artificer game, or at least a recruitment thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141738) for it. Tentatively have Salvonus DMing. If you're interested. Or if anyone else is!

And yeah, definitely echoing Xallace - quite ready to be done with this contest and on to the next one!

[DracoDei]

I also am hungry for a new contest (and to see Djinn in Tonic's picture).
Honest disclosure: Bhu and I have been tossing ideas back and forth on the premise that it will be the paired PrCs theme. Ours is a probably Epic class for a dragon and spell-casting... passenger*. I think I already came up with the basic idea for the capstones too...

*I loath the idea that someone sitting on the back of a creature with Int > 6 can improve that creature's flying/running/defensive ability (such as with the Mounted Combat feat, or most "cool mount" based PrCs).

Incidently, getting the posts next to eachother might be a bit tricky to coordinate for that one...

[Xallace]

Dang, that's right. If we go that route I'm gonna need a partner.

[Lord_Gareth]

Damn, I was so close!

*Eyeballs the banner trophy*

I'll get you yet. But probably not in the next contest, since Djinn and I will be combining our powers for some serious total annihilation.

Ya'll ought to be informed that X is taking the weekend off to spend time with his Wife-brand Significant Other. Get yours today!

[DracoDei]

So, do we know the contest theme for sure?

[ErrantX]

So, do we know the contest theme for sure?

Stealing a moment to confirm what Lord_Gareth said and to say it's a surprise, but look for it on Monday! :smallbiggrin:

-X

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Damn, I was so close!

*Eyeballs the banner trophy*

I'll get you yet.

Bring it, Gareth! You'll pry that banner from my cold, dead hands!

...which is kind of the idea, after all. :smallbiggrin:


But probably not in the next contest, since Djinn and I will be combining our powers for some serious total annihilation.

Agreed! With out potent mix of writing, creativity, mechanical strength, fluff-crafting expertise, evocative names, and devilish good looks, nothing can stop us!


Ya'll ought to be informed that X is taking the weekend off to spend time with his Wife-brand Significant Other. Get yours today!

Duly noted. Have a ball, and say hello to her for me, won't you? As for the latter part...well...it's hard, ya know?

[Xallace]

Agreed! With out potent mix of writing, creativity, mechanical strength, fluff-crafting expertise, evocative names, and devilish good looks, nothing can stop us!


Even with your godly abs creative expertise and firm buttocks superior think-tank, I will stand against thee! You'll never crush my fighting spirit! *Fire of Passion*

Edit: Don't believe in me, believe in the me that believes in me! Mine is the PrC that will pierce the Seven Mounting Heavens! WHO IN BA'ATOR DO YOU THINK I AM!?

EditEdit: You are the species, I am the extinction! "I can breathe; I CAN FIGHT!" If I lose now: Cossack Dance Time! Don't lose to yourself! Good, if memory serves, we've done the impossible before. But only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go against a Sicilian when death is on the line!" Ah hahahaha hahaha haha haha ha You know I'm not sure what's going on at this point.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Even with your godly abs creative expertise and firm buttocks superior think-tank, I will stand against thee! You'll never crush my fighting spirit! *Fire of Passion*

Edit: Don't believe in me, believe in the me that believes in me! Mine is the PrC that will pierce the Seven Mounting Heavens! WHO IN BA'ATOR DO YOU THINK I AM!?

EditEdit: You are the species, I am the extinction! "I can breathe; I CAN FIGHT!" If I lose now: Cossack Dance Time! Don't lose to yourself! Good, if memory serves, we've done the impossible before. But only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go against a Sicilian when death is on the line!" Ah hahahaha hahaha haha haha ha You know I'm not sure what's going on at this point.

Now that is fervor. Good thing I poisoned your wine. :smallamused:

[Golden-Esque]

Now that is fervor. Good thing I poisoned your wine. :smallamused:

Then its a good thing that Elan's plight convinced me to prepare this spell every day ... DELAY POISON! Well Xallace, you have exactly two hours to find a cure. Heroic Adventure, go!

EDIT: OMG! There are exactly 1,334 posts in this thread. We should try to keep it at 1,337 for when we close and open a new Contest Chat Thread. How legendary would that be?

[Xallace]

Then its a good thing that Elan's plight convinced me to prepare this spell every day ... DELAY POISON! Well Xallace, you have exactly two hours to find a cure. Heroic Adventure, go!

Come my mighty steed! We ride!
"Whinny!"
What do you mean, 'today's your day off?'
"Whinny!"
Wha- since when are you a union worker? Since when does Djinn run the union!?
"Whinny."
Alright, alright. I'll go do it myself. Stupid horse.


EDIT: OMG! There are exactly 1,334 posts in this thread. We should try to keep it at 1,337 for when we close and open a new Contest Chat Thread. How legendary would that be?

Like "whoa," that's how legendary that would be.

[ErrantX]

Gotcha covered, this is the most 1337 post EVER.

Also, new contest chat thread and contest are in the works, keep your eyes peeled, folks.

-X

P.S. Anyone who posts after me would be most un-1337. Wait for the new thread :P