Alpha Centurai

[Divine Comedy]

I just started playing this amazing game. I played most of the civs, 1, 2, and 4. However I somehow missed this great game the first time. Right now I'm best with university and I enjoy Morganites but I am having trouble with their play style.

So anyway, Alpha Centurai general thread. Strategies, stories, ect.

[Graymayre]

It was one of my favorite games. I loved the videos and quotes that it gave you when discovering technology.

[Trazoi]

It's been a while since I've played it, but it's a very good game in the Civilization-like genre. It's still one of the best in terms of faction politics, which is something I felt the Civs never quite emulated. I liked each group expressing a particular ideology.

The main downside to the game was that set in the future it didn't have the same intuition behind choices that Civilization has. You don't really have a feel what all those sci-fi techs do, whereas it means something tangible for your civ to discover writing or gunpowder. The build your own unit feature was mixed in that while it allowed some great personalised strategies, it also meant all the troops looked the same and thus got a bit dull.

As for strategies, it's been a while so I can't remember the details. I usually played as one of the tech strong factions or one of the more friendly ones. In the original, that would be either the University or the U.N. Peacekeepers. I also often played as my own custom faction, sort of based on social democracy ideology (like Sweden). It might have been slightly unbalanced (although not as much as you can with the editor :smallwink:) but it was fun playing as my own group. We got a free Children's Creche with every new city!

From what I remember, in the original game if you were tech based you really needed to complete the Hunter Seeker secret project. It was seriously overpowered in that it protected you completely from all those annoying probe units.

I also got the expansion pack at one stage, but I didn't play it much. I think I was a bit too busy at the time and it sort of lay in a pile of games. Some of the new factions seemed a little too contrived (like the one based on data hacking, can't remember its name). But the sea based faction seemed pretty nifty. Sea bases are pretty cool in Alpha Centauri.

[KiwiImperator]

The original game was good, some of the best fun I've had in... ever. But the expansion pack, while offering some fairly boring new sides, comes with the faction editor, which is something that nearly made my head explode the first time I played around with it. The temptation to abuse it is immense at first, and after that a brief period of novelty factions (I made Rapture, led by Andrew Ryan once, played through the whole game with one sea-base and a batrillion bonuses to research counterbalanced by... drone riots? Lots of drone riots. Nerve stapling for everybody!) and after that, you'll end up actually understanding the system enough to make balanced factions that can function under computer control, and then it gets really good. A game from a better era, I think.

[Ganurath]

1. University, using free tech for Biogenetics and starting research Social Psych, which will be followed by Secrets of the Human Brain.

2. Queue construction at starting base as Scout Patrol, Recycling Tanks, Scout Patrol, Colony Pod.

3. The free tech from Secrets of the Human Brain will be Centauri Ecology, and research shall commit to Centauri Empathy.

4. Get the Empath Guild as soon as possible. Communications with everyone early on provides plenty of "free" tech through trading is good, and the +50% for Planetary Governor is a nice touch as well.

5. Clean Reactor. Slap that on a Former, and before you know you're on the winning end of the war against Planet, ecology be damned. Slap that on a soldier, and you will lose your understanding of the concept of attrition.

6. Drop Pods + Space Elevator = No base is safe. Specifically, Hovertanks with the best weapon available, or Psi Attack if you don't want to invest in upgrades. Drop a guy in, attack, go to next guy. Repeat until base is empty, then drop a guy directly into the enemy base. Swarm in with the initial attackers. Hurry a guard with Clean Reactor and Nonlethal Methods. Repeat until Faction Eliminated.

[Divine Comedy]

Pretty interesting Ganurath, I'll have to try that. I'm still getting the hang of not overspending with Morgan.

[d12]

I love Alpha Centauri. :smallbiggrin: I pretty much always play as University, and yes, Hunter-Seeker Algorithm is a must-build. The game seems to be in love with dropping me next to Yang though, and he never seems to understand the idea of borders (other than those belonging to him), so I need to administer frequent beat-downs on him. I forget which synergy of social engineering choices I tend to go for most often, but I found one that eventually seems to gel with my playstyle well enough (I think it only gets good after I get one of the future social options though). In the late game I seem to remember frequently building hordes of DropClean units and using them to rapidly insert huge forces into areas that would otherwise require a longer-term buildup (Death from above for science!!). I'm sure there are more effective specialty types for shock troops like that, but the clean reactor means I can build oodles of them and not worry about depleting base resources.

And I don't think I've ever played a civ-type game that did a better job on immersion (at least for me). It also has some of the most humorous quotes in any game I've ever played. :smalltongue: Couple of my favorites:

"'We are all aware that the senses can be deceived--the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time? Or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?' -- Project PYRRHO, Specimen 46, Vat 7. Activity recorded Mission Year 2302.22467. Termination of specimen advised."

Also: "The first living thing to go through the device was a small white rat. I still have him, in fact. As you can see, the damage was not so great as they say." :smallbiggrin: Fun stuff.

[Divine Comedy]

Yeah I have never played a game where Yang did not try to abuse me at every possible moment. Godwinson is actually nicer to me than yang.

[Trazoi]

The good thing about the A.I. in Alpha Centauri is that the factions ally based on personality, so everyone ends up hating Yang enough to help deliver the beat down.

Unlike in the Civilization series, where everyone just seems to hate the human player. I don't think I've played a single game which didn't end up as My Nation vs. The Rest of the World. Not even when my country is just minding its own business.

[MorhgorRB]

Pretty interesting Ganurath, I'll have to try that. I'm still getting the hang of not overspending with Morgan.

...overspending? I've never managed that one. :smallconfused:

Anyway, Gaians are the way to go. The +50% planet, along with the later upgrades can push it up to 125% meaning that only the Dream-Mind Worms can resist capture. Plus, it saves you having to build troops and instead stomping around in the 'fungus for them.

And for the above, everyone wants to kill Miraim for me. Really. I might have something to do with the way I run around with Pacts a lot... but you know, what better way to win than random backstabbing?

Oh, and the most amazing part of that game was the first time I ever got a planet buster, and 'accidentally' dropped it on a neutral... *cough* WAAAAAGGGHHH.

[SolkaTruesilver]

Yeah I have never played a game where Yang did not try to abuse me at every possible moment. Godwinson is actually nicer to me than yang.

I always randomize leader's personnality. It gives a little more challenge, as you don't know what to expect from everybody. I had a game where Yang managed to take over the South-Western continent alone, where I had beaten the Fundemantalists and the U.N. workers on the eastern continent (note: I NEVER have any moral problem of kicking Miriam's ass. I hate her). University and Morgan were sharing the central continent.

Yang played very honorably. He never violated treaties, but he also played dirty (which I don't find dis-honorable, btw) by using extensively Morgan as a proxy to thrawt my attempts to expend oversea. Probably one of the hardest game I played.

Bloody missile attacks.. I could never get to keep my beachheads on the Central Continents...

My favorite leader: Yang, followed by Santiago :smallbiggrin:

[Ganurath]

Morhgor: I liked Gaians until I took a look at the support budget.

Solka: You should have tried the Space Elevator Drop. Who needs a beachead when time and space no longer inhibit your progress? Remember, build lots of energy satellites so that you can hurry the defensive units for conquered bases. Or, alternatively, have Clean Drop Armored Infantry on standby to perform the takeover option so you can go straight to infrastructure.

[SolkaTruesilver]

Solka: You should have tried the Space Elevator Drop. Who needs a beachead when time and space no longer inhibit your progress? Remember, build lots of energy satellites so that you can hurry the defensive units for conquered bases. Or, alternatively, have Clean Drop Armored Infantry on standby to perform the takeover option so you can go straight to infrastructure.

The problem is that he seems to have spammed an incredible amount of missile, and I cannot get them all before he strikes and actually wipe the conquered city. He is using a quite effective "scorched earth" tactic.

Anyway, I got bored of that game 3 months ago :-) I will probably start playing a new one eventually... hehe...

[MorhgorRB]

Morhgor: I liked Gaians until I took a look at the support budget.

Solka: You should have tried the Space Elevator Drop. Who needs a beachead when time and space no longer inhibit your progress? Remember, build lots of energy satellites so that you can hurry the defensive units for conquered bases. Or, alternatively, have Clean Drop Armored Infantry on standby to perform the takeover option so you can go straight to infrastructure.

You just swap the Social Engineering around until you have nothing in red except Probe. Police is normally pretty low for me too, but the Projects cover that up nicely later on.

And Orbital Drop Troops are EXCELLENT. Although, I'm always left with a swarm of hundreds of infantry from before I got them... :smalltongue:

[Ganurath]

You just swap the Social Engineering around until you have nothing in red except Probe. Police is normally pretty low for me too, but the Projects cover that up nicely later on.

And Orbital Drop Troops are EXCELLENT. Although, I'm always left with a swarm of hundreds of infantry from before I got them... :smalltongue:Yeah, Social Engineering is more a political tool for me. I'm University, so taking the Power Goal gets Santiago's favor and no expense. Democracy has a similiar effect, as one can never please Yang or Miriam. The only exception is Planned economics, as Free Market is ridiculous and Green means +2 Planet, and no bonus to support can fend off the inevitable tide of support penalties from several dozen boils.

[Archonic Energy]

12 words.


Please don't go... The Drones need you... they look up to you.

any game that throws a guilt trip on you for quitting gets my vote!

i like the pirates & the Hive... although i'malso partial to the Gaians, gotta love that mind worm bonus!


And Orbital Drop Troops are EXCELLENT. Although, I'm always left with a swarm of hundreds of infantry from before I got them... :smalltongue:
Erm...you know you can mass upgrade units?

Right?

[KIDS]

Such an awesome game, I still play a game occasionally. Even multiplayer (hotseat) works well. And the quotes... brilliant! Just a warning, I'd avoid the expansion (Alien Crossfire") if I were you - it's fun, but very poorly balanced and all the new factions are overpowered compared to old. Still...

Alpha Centauri has a ton of strategies, among the top of strategy games anywhere, so they can't all be listed here.

One tip I can offer is that, for all factions, getting at a +2 Economy rating is the road to power. +2 Economy equals +1 Energy in all squares, doubling your energy production and thus research and credits which is immense. Morgan does this with only Wealth safely while others need Free Market (or Eudamonia), exposing them and restricting it to times of peace and non-exploration. If you can get both Wealth and Free Market as a Morgan, just go for it though: +4 rating is a win (+2 Energy per square).

Also, getting to +5 Growth causes a population boom in the base, and is something available to all factions (Democracy/Planned/Children's Creche). A successful population boom is a tremendous boost in the long run and can get you from "Anemic" to "Supreme" rating. Brother Lal can substitute one of those for having many talents and causing a Golden Age in his bases (with psych and Human Genome Project). Golden Age counts as a +2 Growth for that base only.

Once your bases become big, you need the drone reducing facilities, but the more efficient way to manage them is to watch your police rating (no negatives) and divert some energy to psych. 10-20 or even 30% will do, and don't look at it as a loss. If bases were rioting, you'd lose much more energy for other purposes.

In general warfare, cheap land troops supported with a mass of airplanes (normal and SAM) is generally the most solid offense/defense you can create. Toss in some Probe teams when you can, and design Naval Probes when they're available - extremely valuable. Later in the game, Submarine Aircraft Carriers (y. I know that sounds dumb) are amazing for bringing a large fleet to the enemy and harassing enemies.

Planet Busters are something you need to be afraid of (if you're on the other end, and you probably will be). No matter the tech difference, there is always a 50-150 year difference between the arrival of Planet Busters and the arrival of Orbital Defense Pods. Expect your big cities to get nuked during that time.

Finally, Secret Projects are very valuable. There are no useless Projects, but there are some "must have" ones, like Weather Paradigm, Citizens Defense Force, Hunter-Seeker Algorithm or Cyborg Factory. If someone finishes a project before you, you can switch to another project at no loss or continue building the completed one. It won't be built but it will gather minerals, letting you switch and instantly complete the next project when it arrives later.

[Ethdred]

In case enough people haven't said it - great game! I've been playing the expansion quite a lot (though with the old style factions, 'cos I like them better). I like the additions to the game, but find it much easier - the other factions just don't spam cities like they used to. I find I have an unpassable lead by about the time I get Chaos weapons. I think I might go back and try the original game again to see if it's my play that's got better!

I know everyone goes on about clean units, but I almost never use them. by the time I get the tech, I usually have so much production that I don't notice the support costs. Also, I tend to have a small focused army, which quickly gets to Elite status, so I don't have much support to worry about anyway. And yes, air power is the key to victory. And I hate planet busters. They always go for my city with most Secret Projects!!

Like all Civ-style games, you need to explore lots, and keep people happy, and research for the win! I always play with blind research and spoils of war, so I don't know what I'm getting but if anyone gets a tech lead on me I can steal it from them!

This is the only game where I've really got into the story - and all the quotes just make it so much more immersive. I really have feelings of like and dislike towards the faction leaders - I won't play Hive 'cos I hate Yang so much!

[Winterwind]

What remains there to say? Awesome game indeed. :smallsmile:
I generally liked playing with the Gaians best, closely followed by University.


The original game was good, some of the best fun I've had in... ever. But the expansion pack, while offering some fairly boring new sides, comes with the faction editor, which is something that nearly made my head explode the first time I played around with it. The temptation to abuse it is immense at first, and after that a brief period of novelty factions (I made Rapture, led by Andrew Ryan once, played through the whole game with one sea-base and a batrillion bonuses to research counterbalanced by... drone riots? Lots of drone riots. Nerve stapling for everybody!) and after that, you'll end up actually understanding the system enough to make balanced factions that can function under computer control, and then it gets really good. A game from a better era, I think.You don't need the expansion pack to create your own factions.
In the Alpha Centauri main folder, there are files called GAIANS.TXT, SPARTAN.TXT etc., that contain the parameters of all the usual factions. Copy one of those, save it under a different name, modify it as you please (conveniently, there is also an example file called FACTIONS.TXT that tells you exactly what your options are), and then load your new faction when starting the new game. Somewhat less convenient, maybe, but perfectly workable.

[Triaxx]

I fondly remember this game. Even more fondly remember going into the files and rebalancing the expansion factions. They were much more specialized when I finished.

I do recall being a great fan of Morgan, for the simple fact that I could buy anything I felt like and not have to worry about paying for it.

Of course, I experimented with the standard unbalanced faction. When your free tech is clean reactors, and you've got double bonus from squares that are naturally twice as productive... Let's just say I finally managed to achieve an energy victory.

[Ganurath]

I do recall being a great fan of Morgan, for the simple fact that I could buy anything I felt like and not have to worry about paying for it.Yeah... I got that same buzz just by spamming Clean Formers until Planet declared war, they went about harvesting husks.

[Altima]

Well, had a massive post, then, woops, internet error. That sucks.

Anyway, use crawlers. Stockpile them when you have nothing better to build and use them to rush build secret projects, or at mineral-poor bases.

Use the population boom tactic (as stated above). Use it only when it's useful, such as having several bases capable of supporting larger-than-current populations, then change it back to whatever your preference is.

Use probe teams to cause general havoc as well as defense, against both foreign probe teams as well as attacks (subverting).

Use infantry for garrison duty (they receive 25% bonus in city fighting), and rovers (then helicopters) for fighting around your cities. Your assault units are based on what you need--assuming you aren't just going to use conventional missiles to blast a garrison apart then drop in a hover tank to capture the city.

Use formers. This is probably the most important thing. Formers make you awesome. Build movement enhancers between your cities, plant forrests in the beginning, and be sure to exploit resources.

Sea bases make excellent research-centric areas. Can a full sea base, support it with several other bases building sea-crawlers, use sea formers to plant kelp then tidal generators (hopefully with one or two energy resources nearby), then, once all that's done, switch your capital to said city, and start building energy and research bonus structures and projects at this base (using crawlers to add to its pathetic mineral output). It takes a lot of investment, but this city alone should have you getting new techs every few turns.

Always build prototypes. Even if you don't think you'll need it, ALWAYS build prototypes. Firstly, you never know when you might need something, and trying to upgrade a unit to include something you haven't prototyped is expensive. However, the main bonus to prototyping a unit is that that unit starts at a higher morale than normal. More seasoned troops is always better, especially for garrison forces.

[Tengu_temp]

Ah, good old SMAC. I have two gripes with this game:
1. Interface. While it gives you no trouble in early and mid-play, after a while it gets really annoying to manage 10+ cities to full performance and move lots and lots of units around the map (the auto-movement helps with the latter, but not completely). MoO 2 had a much better interface and it's what, two years older?
2. Timescale. One year is way too much time for a turn in a futuristic game. It might seem like a minor issue for you, but remember that one of the strongest points of SMAC is how immersive it is - and this feeling gets strained when infantry marches from one city to another, close one for 7 years.

Apart from those two and a handful of minor ones, however, this game is great - the third best one in its genre, if you ask me, with Master of Orion 2 as second and Galactic Civilisations 2 as first.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Some things that I have done:

I love playing University. Tech > all. Sure, you can come in with two dozen 2/2/1 units. I've got 1/4/1*2ECM units in all my buildings, behind fortifications. Bring it on. By the time you have missiles, I already have upgraded to 1/6/1*2AAECM and are shooting down the missiles with pathetic ease.

But here are some easy ways to get some mojo going, regardless of your faction:

1) Get Formers, and Supply as fast as you can. Talk to Diedera for the Formers, if you can. And talk to Morgan for an easier start on the Supply. You may have to trade away your faction specific tech, but it'll be worth it.

Now build roads to your capital town and start sending in supply on a frequent basis from the other central towns who have the city upgrades you want for now. Build the Projects in your capital, with the extra Supply supporting the project building. You may loose one project, even two, but you will get every project that matters. Ever. When not building a project, park them outside your capital. Stack 'em up in 10's and 20's. When a project you desperately want comes up, you run them in until you have built it in one turn.

2) Know Thy Factions. Some civil modes are 'hostile' to each other. For example, The Hive *HATES* Democracy. So if you are a Democracy, expect Yang to pick a fight with you, and Lal to embrace you as a brother of freedom. Likewise, if you go Green, expect Morgan to be unfriendly at best, but Diedra will be your close companion.

This even works when you randomize the factions. You just look at their faction profile, see where their preferences lie, and you will know how you will stand with them.

3) Copters = Win. Seriously, they do. They are an air unit which can attack multiple times in a turn. Coptors + Drop Units= all your base are belong to us.

Even better, choppers use their attack value for both attack and defense, so there is no point to giving them any defense. I don't bother with going max attack on the drop troops, since units halve their attack after being dropped. I empty them with choppers, then have max DEFENSE with drop pods. That way, you have a better chance of retaining the property you just took.

So run your chopper next to their city, smack them until they are empty, then Wait and bring in your drop troop to take over the city, then run the chopper into your new city to refuel.

[BlueWizard]

I enjoyed it while I had it. :smallcool:

[revolver kobold]

Paging Oryx to the thread...

I never played Alpha Centurai, but being a massive fan of the Civ series, I really should give it a shot.

Does it support multiplayer over the internet in any way?

[LoadedDie]

It supports internet multiplayer. Not sure about other peoples experiences, but I always got disconnects or starts where one person was left out.

I will agree that this game has a higher immersion level than Civilization. I think most of it has to do with the quotes from techs and how each faction has different, listed ideologies. This gives them personalities; makes you feel like you are actually meeting and learning about a person. It's something I really wish they would do in Civ. Much better than Montezuma's "Rawr! You don't have my religion. I KILL YOU!!" and "Rawr! You have my religion. I KILL YOU!!!"

Been a long time since I played, I think I played Yang the most and Brother Lal the least.

[Triaxx]

I recall using play by-email to great effect when I had a terrible net connection.

[Evil DM Mark3]

Sold Out are selling it again you know.

Anyhow, I love tech so I play as Morgan. No seriously. A reasonable Morgan empire can out research a perfectly micromanaged University faction of the same size. HUGE energy reserves. Usually Democratic, Free Market, Wealth Cybernetics. I am also something of a project whore.

[Ganurath]

Free Market...BUH?! I'm sorry, but I cannot understand why any sane individual would use that.

[Alleine]

Whenever I foolishly attempt a victory that isn't conquest, I'm always reminded why I usually do conquest. It goes something like this:

Gaians: Oh, you totally beat me, I surrender!
Me: alright, I can totally benefit from the trade, this'll be great for me.
Gaians: O HAI, I've decided to choke out all of your best bases by relentlessly squeezing new bases all around them. Im in ur base, takin ur resources! KTHXBAI. OLOLOLOL
Me: DAMMIT! I declare war on EVERYONE! *watches the world burn*
Looks like another victory by conquest...

You can replace Gaians here with any other faction. It doesn't matter, they all do it unless for some reason they've been so badly crushed they never recover enough to build new bases. Which rarely happens.

[LiteYear]

...BUH?! I'm sorry, but I cannot understand why any sane individual would use that.

Well, it's the only way for non-Morgan to get at or above the +2 Ecomony mark. When your faction has +2 Ecomony or greater, you get +1 Energy for each square you control. That's going to be a huge boost to your income (should be at least +40 energy/turn at the minimum by the time you can get it, and grows when your faction does)

[oryx]

YAY I love this game. I actually just reinstalled it. I think I like it more than the Civ games cause it's got science fiction funtimes! I usually play as the Gaians, which going by the general trend of this thread, makes me a dirty hippy, but I like to win through Transcendence.

[Evil DM Mark3]

...BUH?! I'm sorry, but I cannot understand why any sane individual would use that.When combined with Wealth the fact that he gives +3 energy in ever single worked square and an extra 5 in every base perhaps?

Look at it like this. A faction with 4 size 10 bases and 12 size 4 bases (not that unrealistic for early mid game, especially with Moran and the small city syndrome) this is 384 energy before you even start to look at terraforming. A decent sized and mobile trance army is enough to keep the worms at bay and even make a lot of cash from them as you do so. Even if you go 30% echonomy, 40% Phych, 30% Research you can still be richer and have better tech than anyone else, as well as near constant Golden Ages.

[Winterwind]

Yes, in comparison with other empire building games, like Master of Orion 2, where industry beats research or wealth any time, in Alpha Centauri (most or all Civilisation-type games, actually) economy is the more important statistic.
I always wondered why that is so - which difference in gameplay makes industry better in MoO2, yet economy in Alpha Centauri?

[Evil DM Mark3]

I reckon it is a mixture of the following:

1)Terraforming. With enough Terraformers you can rake in the minerals so fast that a low production is not a big problem.
2)Hurry building. This means you can convert money into industry directly in an emergency. You can also get secret projects, satellites, all the fun stuff, much much faster.
3)Probe teams. This lets you turn money into tech and units, I cannot count the times that I have been attacked, only to send the units right back at their former owner, bases even more so.
4)Clean reactors remove many of the problems with support that getting the money causes.
5)Money feeds into tech and the tree is set up such that there are several choke points. Get the three techs that lift harvesting cap on minerals, energy and nutrients and you can storm ahead. Likewise it is very hard to fight off an enemy with needlejets if you lack Doctrine:Airpower yourself.

[KIDS]

Free Market is an enormous benefit, but its penalties are enormous too. Your production is limited unless you want big fungal booms all around your bases, and any kind of military action (even defensive) is out of the question. Truth be told, I've always found Alpha Centauri to be a game with a remarkable balance between agressive rushing and tech/economy development.

Another tip: When you "hurry" a unit, building or project to be complete next turn, don't hurry all of it for the offered amount. Hurry for a bit less, as big a fraction as you can allow while it is still finished the next turn.
For example, you are producing a laser rover 2-1-2 which will be finished in 5 turns, but you can hurry it for 100 credits to be finished next turn. Hurrying it for 81 credits will cause it to be finished next turn just the same, saving you some money.

[Surrealistik]

Miriam is teh pwn for conquest. Loved using her to crush my enemies with zerging in multiplayer. Her innate tech disadvantages are nothing thanks to her probe bonuses. Fundamentalism ftw. Planet is the promised land! Death to the unbelievers!

[Eldariel]

Heh, I'm playing with Alien Crossfire, but yeah - the first games I played (I started with a PBEM game with college buddies along with few test games as a solo) I ended up randomed into Yang twice and have used him a ton since. Getting social picks without the risk of Efficiency going to negatives is just awesome.

Meh, University kicks ass too - probably the best of the core factions. But with Alien Crossfire, I tried Pirates for a game and noticed how damn easy the game is with them. Sure, your starting former and pod cost more, but you're threatened by nobody (even Isles of the Deep take a while to start showing up) and area that's trash to others is gold to your due to your inherent +1 production from naval squares.

Aggressive expansion (preferably few coastal towns on uninhabited continents/islands for Thermal Boreholes after you get The Weather Paradigm; then just quicktech to Doctorine: Air Power, generate a bunch of fighters and bombers for air superiority (preferably with at least Missile Launcher or Chaos Gun, and before opponents get AAA units) and sweep the continents, picking a bunch of awesome cities in the process, while continuing tech to pick up Helicopters - quick air units just clean the house so fast.


Hmm, how about we try to arrange a Playground PBEM?

[Surrealistik]

Which faction is best really depends on the starting conditions.

If there's someone nearby you can crush and steal (or intimidate) tech from, I find Miriam is almost invariably superior. The Believers get progressively worse the less early contact they have with other factions. As long as there's an enemy to conveniently put to the sword (or they have an ally supplying them with tech), they're golden though.

Beyond that, the rankings descend into ambiguity and confusion. University is powerful, but Morgan can easily beat out its research while in builder mode by means of excessive energy production as mentioned earlier, and can maintain a pretty vibrant war economy, which means fast builds and probe subversion; a well played Morgan is arguably one of the most powerful, if not the most powerful non god-tier faction assuming it can properly build up. Definitely a mid-late orientated faction. Yang is up there, though his energy poverty can be crippling at times. If he is able to aggressively expand though, he is easily a top contender.

The worst race is almost surely the Cult of the Planet, which relies very heavily on luck (finding lots of early worms and someone to use them on) and even if it does strike gold in the early game, its crippling penalties (-1 industry and economy, ouch) probably will deny it the endurance and staying power required to come out on top in the end.

To get it out of the way, the Cybernetic Consciousness and both alien factions are all blatantly overpowered, and aren't worth further mention due to the obviousness of their supremacy.

[Douglas]

Free Market is an enormous benefit, but its penalties are enormous too. Your production is limited unless you want big fungal booms all around your bases, and any kind of military action (even defensive) is out of the question.
That's strange, I don't recall either of those being a serious problem...

For fungal blooms: deliberately trigger one fungal bloom early. DO NOT build any of the eco-friendly city improvements until after this first fungal bloom has occurred. Once it has, build all of them everywhere. The final step of the eco-damage calculation is subtracting the number of fungal blooms you have caused and the number of eco-friendly buildings you have built throughout your empire after your first fungal bloom - and this is in addition to whatever reduction each building does for the city it's built in. Anything built before that critical first fungal bloom doesn't count towards this reduction. Every Tree Farm, Hybrid Forest, Centauri Preserve, and Temple of Planet built afterwards, however, reduces eco-damage by 1 each empire-wide. If you feel like abusing the system you can even scrap and rebuild them - it's counted by new construction, and destruction of old facilities isn't tracked.

Another way to handle it is to make one really high eco-damage city and stuff it chock full of specially designed anti-mindworm troops. High morale and the psi-combat boosting special abilities. Then watch as the fungus blooms, you rake in the cash from mindworm corpses, and your eco-damage plummets. Each fungal bloom reduces future eco-damage empire-wide the same amount as a new eco-friendly building. Try to get the secret projects that boost your mindworm combat first if you can, though.

Build (or rebuild) enough Tree Farms and trigger enough fungal blooms, and you will have no eco-damage, at all, anywhere, ever again, even with Free Market.

[KIDS]

Wow, I had no idea about that way the tree farms/centauri preserves are counted. I'll check it out the next time I play (thanks to this thread!).

However, the problem of -Police in preventing you from any wars remains the same. I did manage to bypass it in late game with big brother social engineering or a lot of facilities and energy, but by that time the game was decided anyway. When Miriam invaded in first 50 years, I had no choice but to go back to normal economy and stay locked that way for as long as the war lasted.

[Om]

Meh, University kicks ass too - probably the best of the core factions. But with Alien Crossfire, I tried Pirates for a game and noticed how damn easy the game is with themWith the possible exception of the Cult of the Planet, all the expansion civs are overpowered to some degree. The Pirates are probably the worst offenders though

I'd be up for a PBEM game but I'm off on holiday in a few weeks (for a month) so can't promise any commitment


Yes, in comparison with other empire building games, like Master of Orion 2, where industry beats research or wealth any time, in Alpha Centauri (most or all Civilisation-type games, actually) economy is the more important statisticRemind me, to what degree did economy affect tech in MOO2? Lagging in this regard is the big, big disadvantage of a poor economy in SMAC. The Hive, with its -2 economy, is almost as bad as teching-up as the Believers

[SolkaTruesilver]

Remind me, to what degree did economy affect tech in MOO2? Lagging in this regard is the big, big disadvantage of a poor economy in SMAC. The Hive, with its -2 economy, is almost as bad as teching-up as the Believers

With the Hive, I usually simply spam my ennemies with cheap units and bully them into giving me tech. No to forget stealing with mind probes.

The Hive is very nice to play :smallbiggrin:

[Manga Shoggoth]

The thing I liked most about the game was the level of automation:


I could tell a city to build a set of facilities and units (there were about 8 slots in the queue) and then leave it to get on with it.
I didn't have to micromanage the land usage around cities, just set the former to Improve Home Base or Remove Fungus.


All the others stuff was fun as well, but coming from CIV 1 where everything was micromanaged AC was, well, paradise.

[Trazoi]

Remind me, to what degree did economy affect tech in MOO2? Lagging in this regard is the big, big disadvantage of a poor economy in SMAC. The Hive, with its -2 economy, is almost as bad as teching-up as the Believers
From what I remember, economy mainly affected funding for the fleets, spies and leaders. Plus like in SMAC you could pay for the instant completion of planet improvements, which could be invaluable when starting up colonies on inhospitable worlds or before you could truck over some colonists. I can't remember exactly what happened if you ran out of cash - either it jacked up the taxes, forced you to build trade goods or started scrapping things. It wasn't nice, I think.

That said, IMO it was usually less painful to have a racial penalty to economy than research or industry.

[Murphy80]

I liked AC from my first game. I come from a Civ background where ALL the computer players WILL attack you. They can't help it. They might make an alliance of convenience, but they never last and will turn around and attack on a whim, and forget about anything approaching a fair trade. But in my first game of AC I made an alliance early on with The University that lasted through the whole game. Wow, cool. The other cool thing was customizing units. I loved that.
One thing I didn't like was the boring/sameness of the terrain graphics.

[Winterwind]

Remind me, to what degree did economy affect tech in MOO2? Lagging in this regard is the big, big disadvantage of a poor economy in SMAC. The Hive, with its -2 economy, is almost as bad as teching-up as the BelieversEconomy is not related with research in MoO2. It is (obviously) in Alpha Centauri though, hence why I was wondering why, while economy-strong factions tend to fare best in AC, industry-races beat research-races every time in MoO2.

[Trazoi]

Economy is not related with research in MoO2. It is (obviously) in Alpha Centauri though, hence why I was wondering why, while economy-strong factions tend to fare best in AC, industry-races beat research-races every time in MoO2.
More off-topic MoO2-ness: I wouldn't say industry beats research every time. If they build up to a sound foundation, a Creative research-based race will have such a massive tech lead by the mid-game they'll be nigh unstoppable. However, it's the "if" that I can see as the problem; in the early game, an industry strong race can expand much quicker and carve up a larger slice of the galaxy before the borders clash. Having a larger empire with corresponding larger population and production trumps most.

[Izmir Stinger]

Very good game. Skip the expansion pack though - it was pretty clearly not play-balance tested.

[Winterwind]

More off-topic MoO2-ness: I wouldn't say industry beats research every time. If they build up to a sound foundation, a Creative research-based race will have such a massive tech lead by the mid-game they'll be nigh unstoppable. However, it's the "if" that I can see as the problem; in the early game, an industry strong race can expand much quicker and carve up a larger slice of the galaxy before the borders clash. Having a larger empire with corresponding larger population and production trumps most.First of all, I have cite Ackbar on Creative. It's a trap, and a fairly nasty one, too. It eats up 8 picks (if one uses the patched version of MoO2, anyway, in the original it cost only 6, which made it a lot more sensible), and the benefit is smaller than one would think (because there usually are other ways to get the most important things one would miss), yet 8 points can be used to improve the race massively in other areas.
As for the rest, well, that's just it - industry races expand so much faster, they out-research the research race with research-generating buildings alone later.

In fact (to tie this post back into this thread :smallwink:), I think this might be the crucial difference between MoO2 and Alpha Centauri - the fact that there are facilities that generate fixed amounts of research, no matter how unsuited your race might be otherwise for research might well be what gives industry races the edge in MoO2, and the lack of those in Alpha Centauri, the fact that everything that might affect research is multiplicative, rather than additive, might be what prevents this from happening there.

[Quayleman]

So, after seeing this thread, I decided to reinstall alpha centauri and play a few games. Put my CD in the drive and... CRACK! :smalleek:

No good.

[TerraImmorits]

Seeing as there's a good pile of Centuari players... who's up for a nice long game one of these nights?

Hopefully a non-expansion game, seeing as I never did get to pick it up before it was out of stock and gone from my searching in local stores.

[Mando Knight]

Just booted up the game again tonight... and lost four or five hours building up a civilization from scratch.

I had never really played as Deidre before, so I took the Gaia's Stepdaughters for a spin. I was all alone for quite some time, giving me the peace necessary to build up my strength, and the Mind Worms (thank you for spawning new units for me, Planet!) necessary for self-defense.

[Caewil]

Mmm... I think I'll have to start playing on transcendent level. Anyway, a good tip is to ignore building any transport ships unless you really, really cannot get Isles of the Deep. They transport troops much more efficiently and can attack as well. Great for the Gaians, even better for the Spartans. Their morale bonuses not only improve the Isles combat capabilities but the number of troops they can transport.

EDIT: also, if you capture the worms far away enough from one of your bases, they become 'independent' and cost no support. Having problems establishing a beachead in enemy territory? No problem - drop in a few worms and have them trawl the fungus around the enemy's bases. If the fungus is thick enough and they aren't spotted, (Do this before Air Power, using a captured isle for transportation) you can double or even triple the number of troops you have in enemy territory - without any support costs. Even if they build anti-psionic troops, you should still significantly outnumber them.

[Mando Knight]

Anyone else hack the alpha file just to add in Airborne Aircraft Carriers (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AirborneAircraftCarrier)? (and Heavy Transport)

[Surrealistik]

With the possible exception of the Cult of the Planet, all the expansion civs are overpowered to some degree. The Pirates are probably the worst offenders though

Wait what? Worse than the blatantly imbal Cybernetic Consciousness or the alien factions (the rest of the expansion factions are fine)? No way. Pirates are strong due almost entirely to their typically advantageous starting position, but I would not call them overpowered at all.

[Vael Nir]

Wow, I had no idea about that way the tree farms/centauri preserves are counted. I'll check it out the next time I play (thanks to this thread!).

However, the problem of -Police in preventing you from any wars remains the same. I did manage to bypass it in late game with big brother social engineering or a lot of facilities and energy, but by that time the game was decided anyway. When Miriam invaded in first 50 years, I had no choice but to go back to normal economy and stay locked that way for as long as the war lasted.

Specialists in cities under attack were usually enough... I only attacked the enemy when they were within 1-2 squares of the frontier city. You only pay the penalty if your units end the turn outside your base, after all, and you can handle drone riots in one city for a turn...

Mid-game (after tree farms, which I always rush to) you can put psych up a bit... so it becomes much less of a problem. And rush build the improvements. :smallsmile:

Without rush build, Morgan wouldn't be so totally overpowered.

[Lord William]

I miss my copy of Alien Crossfire; I always played as the Pirates.

[Om]

Wait what? Worse than the blatantly imbal Cybernetic Consciousness or the alien factions (the rest of the expansion factions are fine)? No way. Pirates are strong due almost entirely to their typically advantageous starting position, but I would not call them overpowered at all.Let's run through their advantages:

1) Near complete immunity from attack in the early game. Even in the mid and late game very few civs are going to devote the resources needed to break the naval supremacy of the Pirates. It is incredibly easy to quickly dominate, and maintain this control of, the waterways with this faction

2) This control is cemented with free marine detachments in every ship... trying to go toe-to-toe (or flipper-to-flipper) with the Pirates will often only strengthen them. Not to mention the free naval yards in every base that allow captured ships to recover in a single turn

3) Extra minerals per tile add to the huge food and energy bonuses inherent in naval colonies. This gives the Pirates a very respectable industry to draw upon and this can be further augmented by the ability to terraform deep sea squares. Its like simply taking away all of the weakness of naval colonies while leaving the strengths

4) If that wasn't enough, the only disadvantages that the Pirates do suffer (-1 Gr and Eff) are both counteracted by a single improvement - the crèche!

Now there's no denying that the other Crossfire are also overpowered and unbalanced but no other faction comes close to dominating their niche like the Pirates do. And its quite a significant niche

[Mando Knight]

1) Near complete immunity from attack in the early game. Even in the mid and late game very few civs are going to devote the resources needed to break the naval supremacy of the Pirates. It is incredibly easy to quickly dominate, and maintain this control of, the waterways with this faction

Controlling the waterways hasn't been a concern for me late-game. Usually I build up a decent defense early on, then dominate with Locusts and Gravships.

[Surrealistik]

3) Extra minerals per tile add to the huge food and energy bonuses inherent in naval colonies. This gives the Pirates a very respectable industry to draw upon and this can be further augmented by the ability to terraform deep sea squares. Its like simply taking away all of the weakness of naval colonies while leaving the strengths.

Ah, I had forgotten about that. Yes, this detail definitely puts them over the edge. I still do not believe they are the most imbal faction in the game though; this distinction is easily reserved for the aliens (Usurpers in particular). Easily. Cybernetic Consciousness is also just as if not more OPed relative to the Pirates. Spoils of war + insane efficiency and research means it will almost invariably have a substantial if not overwhelming tech and economic edge over everyone else that just increases as it fights; all at the cost of a mere -1 Growth.

[Ash08]

I really, really, really love this game. I rediscovered it about a year ago and have been playing it on and off till now. I've fallen in love with the University, nothing says victory better than science in my opinion. Anyway, I never even knew that there had been an expansion pack untill I read about it here. Now I have an extreme urge to get my hands on it. I checked Amazon(always check legal first) and was terrified by the price of over $140. Aparently it's pretty valuable. Other sites presented similar prices. So does any one here know were I can safely download the game(operative word, safely)? Thanks in advance!

[Douglas]

Safely? Yes. Legally? Well, I'm pretty sure it's abandonware now but that label has no legal status. Illegally? That topic is rather frowned upon around here and would get this thread locked and infractions issued.

[Evil DM Mark3]

Look (http://www.mastertronic.com/productSoldOut.asp?pid=756&productLabelID=1), much less than $120. About $12 infact, inc delivery.

[Ash08]

wow... the thing is, I already have the orginal game... is there anyway I could just get the expansion? I f not... i'll settle for that, the price is wonderful(especially after Amazon).

[Eldariel]

First of all, I have cite Ackbar on Creative. It's a trap, and a fairly nasty one, too. It eats up 8 picks (if one uses the patched version of MoO2, anyway, in the original it cost only 6, which made it a lot more sensible), and the benefit is smaller than one would think (because there usually are other ways to get the most important things one would miss), yet 8 points can be used to improve the race massively in other areas.
As for the rest, well, that's just it - industry races expand so much faster, they out-research the research race with research-generating buildings alone later.

Demovores, however, are perfectly competitive with standard Unification-based production civs, especially on any larger Galaxy (all they need is a nearby Monster-planet and as many "crap" planets as possible). So research works as a strategy, but only if you have pop plusses (Lithovore in this case) and not that well against Blitz.

[Winter_Wolf]

The acronym SMAC is just too appropriate in my mind. 'Cause really, it's essentially a drug delivered via computer: highly addictive, causes massive waste of time/neglecting to do things that you really should be doing (cooking, cleaning, eating, spending time with the wife....)

I love this game, but I can't keep it installed on my computer because it's got a hold on me that I can't shake. In fact just reading this thread makes me crave it again! Must. Fight. Temptation.

Something I haven't seen mentioned yet, putting a colony pod on an air unit, even a needlejet. For those times when you absolutely, positively *have to* get that colony set up yesterday! (Like claiming the Manifold Nexus to get that +planet rating when you're not Gaian.) Copters work too, if you want to squeeze a little more range out of the unit. By the time you get fusion reactors it's actually a pretty good option.

I play on blind research, because otherwise I'm pretty much taking the exact same techs in the exact same order every time I play, no matter the faction, and it seems kind of dull.

I have the Alien Crossfire expansion, and I have to say I love the extra techs. The factions are kind of lame (that is, I just don't like them), but you can play with the expansion's tech and the original factions. Mainly I like the Cloudbase Academy, which I always felt was missing from the original SMAC. You had the Maritime Control Center, the Cyborg Factory, and the Command Nexus to cover the other base improvements, but this was always lacking before SMAX came along. Plus adding trance to 3-res and 8-res armor is great for those defense units.

I've played every faction, original and expansion, at least once, but my favorites are Morganite, University, and Gaian. I hate the Believers, and try to kill off them and the Hive as soon as possible if I find them in early game, and especially if they're on the same continent as me.

[Comet]

I've played every faction, original and expansion, at least once, but my favorites are Morganite, University, and Gaian. I hate the Believers, and try to kill off them and the Hive as soon as possible if I find them in early game, and especially if they're on the same continent as me.
Funny you should mention that, since I am at this very moment at war with both the Hive and the Believers.

We all have a continent each, and every other faction except for the Spartans has been either destroyed or drived into a corner with only a few bases left.

I'm playing as the Gaians and my army consists of nothing but mind worms and a few airstrike units. Luckily I pretty much dominate psi combat, but the situation is worrisome nonetheless.

Anyway, the Hive and Believers are ridiculously aggressive. At first I paid them no heed, but then all of a sudden I realised that they had taken over half of Planet!

[Om]

Ah, I had forgotten about that. Yes, this detail definitely puts them over the edge. I still do not believe they are the most imbal faction in the game though; this distinction is easily reserved for the aliens (Usurpers in particular). Easily. Cybernetic Consciousness is also just as if not more OPed relative to the Pirates. Spoils of war + insane efficiency and research means it will almost invariably have a substantial if not overwhelming tech and economic edge over everyone else that just increases as it fights; all at the cost of a mere -1 Growth.Well I'm not going to quibble about which is more overrated. You are perfectly correct to point out the insane stat imbalances in the Cybernetic Consciousness and aliens. I just feel that their mastery of the oceans grants a huge advantage that isn't as obvious as the stat bonuses of other factions. In any game with oceans they can claim a third of the map without firing a shot and while every other faction is scrapping for the continents


Anyway, the Hive and Believers are ridiculously aggressive. At first I paid them no heed, but then all of a sudden I realised that they had taken over half of Planet!Aggressive is the only way to play those factions. Their tech disadvantages are so great that both need to rely on their own advantages (industry and combat respectively) before their units become obsolete. Once they get decent empires together they'll present a formidable foe... although a human player should be able to out-tech them

[KIDS]

One thing I noted was that when you're near a powerful computer bullying with you (read: spartans, hive, believers, aliens, pirates), despite the danger to yourself it could be better to end up at war with them then have them attack someone else by bribery or probes or whatever. My worst nightmare is seeing Miriam, Yang and a peaceful faction next to each other and one overruning the other two.

The computer somehow suffers much less drone problems than humans (on transcend difficulty), meaning that when he conquers another computer with all of his bases, all of them can be in working order within just a decade, whereas for humans it takes a long time to set them up for anything really useful. By then, you're up against an enemy that has double the resources and will not be defeatable for hundreds of years while he swarms you with 2352523623 units each turn.

[TerraImmorits]

Hosting a game, and waiting the next hour or so. Here's hoping someone will be around to join up.

See you in the Fungus.

~Terra

[Evil DM Mark3]

Mainly I like the Cloudbase Academy, which I always felt was missing from the original SMAC. You had the Maritime Control Center, the Cyborg Factory, and the Command Nexus to cover the other base improvements, but this was always lacking before SMAX came along.

Problem is it is really much more powerful than the others. Not for the air unit morale but for the enhanced satellite having.

Mind you the Hunter killer allgorithm power down is very much needed.

[Surrealistik]

Well I'm not going to quibble about which is more overrated. You are perfectly correct to point out the insane stat imbalances in the Cybernetic Consciousness and aliens. I just feel that their mastery of the oceans grants a huge advantage that isn't as obvious as the stat bonuses of other factions. In any game with oceans they can claim a third of the map without firing a shot and while every other faction is scrapping for the continents

I wouldn't say they have it quite that easy, especially if there's someone nearby; early game it is perfectly plausible to own the Pirates at sea, especially if you have a combat (Miriam persay), tech or industry edge. For pirates to really shine, several things must be true: A: You are not rushed early game by someone with a production/research/combat advantage, and B: The water areas must be large enough. I will agree though that the Pirates generally are overpowered, as the sea is usually a large place which you can optimally exploit, and you are typically much more difficult to successfully stifle (at least before air power shows up, and after you get your free sea combat enhancements) than most other factions.



Aggressive is the only way to play those factions. Their tech disadvantages are so great that both need to rely on their own advantages (industry and combat respectively) before their units become obsolete. Once they get decent empires together they'll present a formidable foe... although a human player should be able to out-tech them

This goes double for the Believers, which must perpetually Jihad lest they fall laughably behind (the Hive can at least hold their own if they expand enough) in tech, and forfeit one of their greatest advantages; the +25% attack bonus. The warring Believer is one of the most powerful factions in the game, as it can effectively nullify its tech penalties via probes; precisely why they are one of my favourite factions. They are rewarded immensely for breaking face and purging infidels.

[A. Hamster]

wow... the thing is, I already have the orginal game... is there anyway I could just get the expansion? I f not... i'll settle for that, the price is wonderful(especially after Amazon).Sorry, can't help you there. You may just have to do what I did and take the damage. And $12 US is better than $25, which is what I paid when they did a rerelease a couple years ago with several other games in a single box. (Including a copy of Tiger Woods Golf. Now I can buy the concept of sentient planets, but I cannot buy the concept that the average Joe golfer can play like Tiger Woods, so of all the Sci-Fi games in the box, that was the one I found the most ridiculous.)

And SMAC is still my favorite of the Civ-type games. It just has the right balance of play elements for me. At the moment, I'm playing a Civ IV mod which is trying to capture some of the feel of SMAC, but it is just not the same. I'll probably just hook up the old tower and play the real deal.

I've mixed feelings about AX: yes, the new factions are overpowered, as are many of the new Secret Projects. On the other hand, I do like the new native life forms, and I do like fighting against the Progenitor factions. (It adds to the immersive experience when you see them take a human base and reduce it to pop 1. "You bug-eyed b*****ds! I don't like Yang, but he's still human! You're going down! HARD!") I've often thought about editing the alphaX file to remove the stuff I find overpowered and so retaining the elements that I like.

Another thing about AX is that it rots your SMAC skills. Thanks to the Cloudbase Academy and the Energy Nexus, it just makes the game too easy, and one gets used to having that crutch. Then you go back to the original game and actually have to work for a living!

As for the Pirates ... with their advantages it makes me wonder why they bother with piracy at all: they are a pretty good Builder faction with the mineral bonus and the ability to exploit a part of Planet other factions cannot.

As for favorite factions: University and Gaians. University since in these sorts of games I like to turtle and out-tech everyone, then go to war. The vaunted Spartan ubermensch is a carbonized husk when confronted with Plasma Shard Droptroopers. Gaians due to the Planet rating: I use it so I can drill more Boreholes. "Planet, we humans practice something called 'body-piercing' to decorate ourselves. Allow me to demonstrate." Ironically, my high scores have been with the Hive, and not my favorites. ICS for FTW!

And remember, "it is the final duty of every citizen to go into the tanks, and become one with all the people." :smallbiggrin:

[Ethdred]

Another thing about AX is that it rots your SMAC skills. Thanks to the Cloudbase Academy and the Energy Nexus, it just makes the game too easy, and one gets used to having that crutch. Then you go back to the original game and actually have to work for a living!


Is it just the extra Projects that make it a much easier game? I'm sure the AI is just less challenging. In SMAC I can never be sure of winning, and I will certainly end up using top level military units and possibly having to rush a transcedence victory, but in AX, it's just a question of how will I win, and usually the only reason I bother upgrading past shard weapons is because I have too much money. And that's playing with the original factions. Even the Believers and the Hive just don't see as aggressive. Not only in combat terms, but also that I don't see the same sprawling number of cities. Even Morgan can limit himself to only a dozen or fewer. Whereas last night I was playing Spartans in SMAC on a huge planet, and thought I was doing pretty good - crushing the Gaians, had a tech lead, lots of clear space to expand into - when I'm attacked by Miriam. Nothing strange there, except she had wiped out the UN to my west and the Uni to my east, and was now attacking me on both sides, so her empire went almost the whole way around the globe. And I'd only just built Chaos forces!

[Mando Knight]

Mind you the Hunter killer allgorithm power down is very much needed.

H/K algorithm means that Probe penalties are pointless, giving the University only a single drawback (i.e. Drone surges), but combined with Telepathic Matrix (and before that, Talent-boost projects), that penalty's gone too...

Also, my favorite custom units:
Clean/Blink Singularity/Stasis Gravship
Empath/Trance Helicopter (I call it the "Psi Buster" because it is my first and best line of defense against the late-game boils)

[Surrealistik]

H/K algorithm means that Probe penalties are pointless, giving the University only a single drawback (i.e. Drone surges)

It's important to note that the HS project only eliminates the Uni's weaknesses to Probe teams, and does not offset their relative inability to use them, which remains a significant disadvantage.

[KIDS]

Hosting a game, and waiting the next hour or so. Here's hoping someone will be around to join up.

See you in the Fungus.

~Terra

Did it work out well? I've played Alpha Centauri in LAN, but never online. The usual stumbling block was that hotseat games were slow and simultaneous ones had the problem of deciding fairly who would act first in situations where acting first meant destroying the enemy's unit or base.

[A. Hamster]

Is it just the extra Projects that make it a much easier game? I'm sure the AI is just less challenging. In SMAC I can never be sure of winning, and I will certainly end up using top level military units and possibly having to rush a transcedence victory, but in AX, it's just a question of how will I win, and usually the only reason I bother upgrading past shard weapons is because I have too much money. And that's playing with the original factions. You may be right about the AI: since it's been a while, so I don't remember. Some of it is probably due to the AI not being able to deal with the Spore Launchers. A single Spore Launcher can destroy 50-100% of a AI base's improvements, and the AI doesn't seem to do anything until it gets Polymorphic Software and can build artillery units. Since the AI will turtle in such situations until it "feels" militarily powerful again, that alone would slow its expansion.

In the case of the above projects, they make AX easier for me since it eases the energy situation, especially when you finish the Cloudbase Academy and then just build Orbital Power Satellites like crazy. Then you can build the Sky Farms, let the bases grow to the hab limit, and since you've energy to spare, you can crank the Psych spending if needed.

BTW, has anyone who has played AX ever seen the Free Drone ability to capture bases that are rioting actually work? It has never worked in my copy, either when I've played as the Drones or against them. It is a thematically appropriate power for them, but since it did not work in all the games I played, I eventually edited the faction and gave them a free Research Hospital per base (socialized medicine). [That also improved Free Drone performance as an AI. Prior to that they usually did poorly. Getting out-teched by Believers! Now really!]

A bit of silliness. When I encounter Miriam in game, the Monkees' song "I'm a Believer" runs through my mind, but with a slight change.

"Then I saw her face,
And I left the Believers!" :biggrin:

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I always played University when playing SMAC, since I'm of the firm belief (both in SMAC and MoO2) that Tech > All. Thus when I read this thread, I decided to try out Morgan, and was expecting to get my arse handed to me.

Boy was I wrong...

What with the Project which counts as a Command Center in every base, plus the one that is a Cybernetic Factory in every base, I didn't have much problem with green troops after the beginning. But good LORD the Energy production once I got Wealth! And I had to rush the tech to unlock 3+ energy per square because of it.

I tried going from Wealth to Research... and my total research went down by over half! Quantity has it's own quality, I suppose, with that much extra energy coming in, I suppose it was inevitable that it would end up producing more research than the Research tab.

Here's the fun part, though... I went Green, rather than Free Market. So yes, I was a green monopoly, capturing worms, and ended up with Gaia as my pactsister for most of the game.

The only problem is when you get Believers or Spartans next door early-game, before you've had a chance to get the wonders to combat your morale penalty.

[KIDS]

Does anyone know the exact formulas for your penalties and computer bonuses (talents, lack of/extra drones, mineral costs, growth times) depending on difficulties?
The last game I played, I infiltrated Caretaker Hminee (yes he's overpowered and all that) and was shocked to see (early game) all of his bases (small, size 3-4) clunking out recon rovers at rate of 1 rover per turn. Even with stacking minerals and planned/wealth (which were not active), it seems an absurd rate. My own bases produced 1 every 3 turns or so, which is still fast but not that fast. Anyone knows what bonus do computers get in regards to production?

[A. Hamster]

Does anyone know the exact formulas for your penalties and computer bonuses (talents, lack of/extra drones, mineral costs, growth times) depending on difficulties?
The last game I played, I infiltrated Caretaker Hminee (yes he's overpowered and all that) and was shocked to see (early game) all of his bases (small, size 3-4) clunking out recon rovers at rate of 1 rover per turn. Even with stacking minerals and planned/wealth (which were not active), it seems an absurd rate. My own bases produced 1 every 3 turns or so, which is still fast but not that fast. Anyone knows what bonus do computers get in regards to production?No. I thought Apolyton's SMAC section (http://apolyton.net/smac/) had an article on it, but if they did, the Strategy section is empty now. The info was out on the web when the game was only a few years old.

Anyway, what skill level were you playing?

[Winterwind]

I always played University when playing SMAC, since I'm of the firm belief (both in SMAC and MoO2) that Tech > All. Thus when I read this thread, I decided to try out Morgan, and was expecting to get my arse handed to me.

Boy was I wrong...In my opinion, it's not much different in MoO2. In the long run, an Industry race can outresearch a Science race, because it will get multiple times the number of worlds in a shorter time, do so more safely (thanks to better ship production capabilities), fill up the worlds with buildings more quickly and then use its vastly bigger amount of science generating buildings and population to research better than the Science race.


Does anyone know the exact formulas for your penalties and computer bonuses (talents, lack of/extra drones, mineral costs, growth times) depending on difficulties? Some formulas (unfortunately far from all, I think, though admittedly I haven't checked) can be found in the datalinks. For example the formulas for inefficiency, or additional drones because of too many colonies.

[KIDS]

I was playing on Transcend as usual. I'm used to computers swarming me with 10 times my number of units, but I rarely infiltrate them and always attributed it to their tendency of preferring lots of units so this came to me as a surprise.

That's a good idea, Winterwind, I'm not sure if it will be there but I'll check.

[LiteYear]

I believe that the drone rate is 1 drone per 6 citizens on the lowest difficulty, and that value decreases by one for every higher difficulty level (to one drone for each citizen on Transcend). I know the Efficiency formula is in the datalinks, and I think the Eco-Damage formula is in there as well.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

In my opinion, it's not much different in MoO2. In the long run, an Industry race can outresearch a Science race, because it will get multiple times the number of worlds in a shorter time, do so more safely (thanks to better ship production capabilities), fill up the worlds with buildings more quickly and then use its vastly bigger amount of science generating buildings and population to research better than the Science race. Close.

In MoO2, it's a population game. Industry helps, but not as much as you might think. It's why I always, without fail, go Subterranean. However, in MoO2, science really is important, because it increases the research of every single scientist on every single planet. I played a Unification/Subterranean/+1 Research race once (Low G) and royally rocked and rolled the tech. On Impossible Difficulty, I had the damn rockheads going after me with literally30+ ships to my 2... and my 2 won. Of course, the AF Disrupter + Achilles Targeting Unit never hurt... at least it isn't as cheap as the guys who have Phase Cloak + Time Warp + missiles that go straight to engines.

Economy outperforms Science in SMAC because your science is BASED on your economy. Just like in Civ 2, you have your tax/science/luxeries slider, and that percentage of your energy income goes to the given field. So if I've got half the science output per energy, but have six times the energy coming in, I've got three times the research.

Research in MoO2 is based on scientists and a couple of buildings. So in MoO2, it's best to min/max your population to get the most number of researchers. Keep in mind, you can populate any non-toxic planet, and turn it into a Gaia, and for Research, you don't give beans about the Mineral content, so you can grab Huge non-toxic Ultra-Poor planets to colonize just fine. Hell, you can make a 'dry dock' on a Toxic planet by building Android Scientists (or, if you want wealth/production output, use the Workers, and make them continuously build themselves until they hit pop cap), you use a Hydroponic Farm to feed the two non-androids on the planet.


Some formulas (unfortunately far from all, I think, though admittedly I haven't checked) can be found in the datalinks. For example the formulas for inefficiency, or additional drones because of too many colonies.

I know that the formulae ratchet up significantly on higher difficulty. I think it's something like one drone per x population total or something...

[Winterwind]

In MoO2, it's a population game. Industry helps, but not as much as you might think. It's why I always, without fail, go Subterranean.Subterranean is a long-term pick. It helps immensly in the long run, does comparatively little in the short run. As is always the case with such things, the only question is, can the race built for a short-term advantage gain enough of an edge early on to outweigh the long-term race's later advantage? Which depends entirely on your plans, galaxy size and such things. In a huge galaxy, Subterranean is one of the best picks there are. In a small one, more Industry/Research or something like Transdimensional might serve your rush better.


However, in MoO2, science really is important, because it increases the research of every single scientist on every single planet. I played a Unification/Subterranean/+1 Research race once (Low G) and royally rocked and rolled the tech. On Impossible Difficulty, I had the damn rockheads going after me with literally30+ ships to my 2... and my 2 won. Of course, the AF Disrupter + Achilles Targeting Unit never hurt... at least it isn't as cheap as the guys who have Phase Cloak + Time Warp + missiles that go straight to engines.+1 Research means you generate 4 instead of 3 science points per scientist. In the case both you and a race lacking +1 Research get Research Labs (i.e., very soon), it's 5 instead of 4. This means the non-research race only needs 25% more population than you to beat you at the research game. When both have Planetary Supercomputers, it gets even worse for the science race (7 vs. 6 - only 16.67% more population needed).
A clear cut industry race will not have only 25% more population than a science race, it will have significantly more than that. It expands significantly faster, gets the buildings to make a new colony useful sooner, and then fills the colony up with population thanks to Housing in much less time. And then we have to take into account that science generating buildings generate some research by simply existing, and an industry race will have a lot more planets to build them on.
Hence, in my experience, the industry race will very soon have better technologies than the science race.

As you said, if you generate 20% more research output in SMAC, but your neighbour has twice the energy income, you are going to be out-researched.
Likewise, when you generate 50% more science per scientist in MoO2, but your neighbour has twice the population and more planets for building-generated science, you are going to be out-researched as well.


Research in MoO2 is based on scientists and a couple of buildings. So in MoO2, it's best to min/max your population to get the most number of researchers. Keep in mind, you can populate any non-toxic planet, and turn it into a Gaia, and for Research, you don't give beans about the Mineral content, so you can grab Huge non-toxic Ultra-Poor planets to colonize just fine. Hell, you can make a 'dry dock' on a Toxic planet by building Android Scientists (or, if you want wealth/production output, use the Workers, and make them continuously build themselves until they hit pop cap), you use a Hydroponic Farm to feed the two non-androids on the planet.Umm... I tend to colonize absolutely everything, maybe sometimes making an exception for Tiny Toxic worlds. Simply because, with an industry race, there is no reason not to - it's not like a colony base or a colony ship take more than just a few turns to finish, and it's yet another world to place science generating buildings on.

It's not telling much about the actual game, due to being so different, but I've beaten both the No Workers and the No Scientists challenge (in Impossible, Huge galaxy), and I definitely know which one was easier.

But I think we might want to start a separate thread for this... :smallwink:
(though I will be gone for the next few days, and unable to post)

[Eldariel]

Subterranean is a long-term pick. It helps immensly in the long run, does comparatively little in the short run. As is always the case with such things, the only question is, can the race built for a short-term advantage gain enough of an edge early on to outweigh the long-term race's later advantage? Which depends entirely on your plans, galaxy size and such things. In a huge galaxy, Subterranean is one of the best picks there are. In a small one, more Industry/Research or something like Transdimensional might serve your rush better.

Subterranean is great even in Small Galaxy blitz games without population growth bonuses. In fact, in the vanilla, it's pretty much the strongest pick right along with Unification. The trick is to colonize the second colonizable planet in your system, get an Automated Factory operational (generally you should buy it after a turn of production) and have it produce housing.

It'll be about +300 pop making for a new inhabitant every 3-4 turns, which you'll immediately move to your other colonies. This allows you to fill all your planets very fast. Indeed, a race without population bonuses just isn't competitive - that's why Demovores have the Lithovore part. With Ancient Artifacts homeworld, they get 60 research point turn 1 capable of discovering the opening techs in 1 turn and makes for very fast Automated Factory & Research Lab.

Further, they can start building Colony Ships much earlier than the Industry-races, thus matching the pace. Indeed, a Demovore race is generally perfectly capable of competing with an Industry-race as long as there's at least one Monster-planet nearby (because they get MIRV Missile Boats to clear up Monsters much earlier) and preferably an unguarded Rich planet. The fact that they'll get Robominers and other production techs faster than production races keeps them competitive as long as they've got means to match the population.

Of course, Demovores truly shine in Average Tech games due to the starting Colony Ship. But it is possible to be competitive in Pre-Warp too.


As far as Alpha Centauri drones go, I recall each difficulty level lowers the amount of population before "unmodified" drone arrives to the minimum of 1 on Transcendent.

[mangosta71]

Loved SMAC since the first time I played it. Need to see if I can install and run it on my new machine though. I liked the new techs in SMAX, too.

Always been a fan of the University. I generally start each new base by building a garrison unit, recycling tanks, former, colony pod, so I expand quickly enough to maintain my tech edge even against the industry giants until I can beat them at their own game. Mid- and late-game I create garrisons of specialized units for different roles. One unit with resonance weapons and armor with trance and empath that makes each base inviolable against mind worms (and is a decent combatant against normal units as well) alongside units with ECM and AAA. If I'm getting bombarded I can airlift an artillery unit in and put a stop to that nonsense. I usually wait to go on offensive campaigns until I have hovertanks and choppers. The secret project that stops all drone riots (telepathic matrix? Been a while) is the biggest must-have for me. The sudden influx of resources from that thing is lifechanging. Add the cloning vats so all bases are in permanent population boom and you're unstoppable.

I've always found it particularly amusing when a faction leader contacts me and says "Fear me and give me tribute or my forces with their brand-new chaos guns will destroy you!" when my military is sporting grav guns and singularity lasers.

[KIDS]

Indeed, the computers can sometimes really screw up their threats. For example:


I must caution you that my engineers have just completed an advanced Gun Foil [1-1-4] prototype. The first units are entering service now, rendering my forces practically invincible.

Though I've never had an edge over the enemy weapons and armor more than two or three ranks of techs (which is still enormous, like shard vs. graviton), unless maybe they all end up fighting forever and in unfavorable conditions while I peacefully start a population boom and free market all over the place.

[Mando Knight]

Indeed, the computers can sometimes really screw up their threats. For example:

Oh, that's nothing. One time I had Lal threaten me with his "Invincible" Synthmetal Garrisons late-game. (He started on my island, but didn't feel like provoking my wrath until I had already become too powerful...)

For reference, I had gravity-defying airships powered by black holes with temporal-boundary-mediated lasers for offense and space-time discontinuities for defense. He had men armed with pistols and ceramic/metal armor. My terraformers kicked his units' collective rear.

{table=head] |Weapon type|Range|Power Output
Lal|UN standard 7.62 mm slug|550 m|137.94 KW (KE of rounds/second)
Me|Temporal-boundary-mediated laser|N/A (beyond line of sight)|N/A (∞)[/table]

[mangosta71]

Speaking of terraformers, I'm a big fan of giving them armor. The highest defense resonance armor I have in SMAX, but even synthmetal is enough to remove the noncombatant penalty when they get attacked. Yang gets a nasty surprise when he comes at me with his impact weapons and tries to take out a former with antimatter plate.

[A. Hamster]

Speaking of terraformers, I'm a big fan of giving them armor. The highest defense resonance armor I have in SMAX, but even synthmetal is enough to remove the noncombatant penalty when they get attacked. Yang gets a nasty surprise when he comes at me with his impact weapons and tries to take out a former with antimatter plate.
*Nod* That was a suggestion in an early strategy article. Formers get a decent defense bonus in Rocky, Forest or Fungus, and if you armor them, they become obnoxious speed bumps for invaders.

Apart from the nostalgia value of this thread, It has also been useful in learning about some things I did not know about SMAC, such as the Fungal Bloom avoidance exploit mentioned earlier, and that Morgan played properly can easily outtech Zakharov. I've never like playing as Morgan, but I'll have to give it a try again based on what I've read here.

I also don't mind the MOO2 discussion, but unfortunately, no machine that I still own can run it, so that info is of little use.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Loved SMAC since the first time I played it. Need to see if I can install and run it on my new machine though. I liked the new techs in SMAX, too.

Always been a fan of the University. I generally start each new base by building a garrison unit, recycling tanks, former, colony pod, so I expand quickly enough to maintain my tech edge even against the industry giants until I can beat them at their own game. I go for the Former FIRST, THEN the Recycling Tanks, and start building roads so that I can get Supply Rovers to my Projects that much quicker [/quote]Mid- and late-game I create garrisons of specialized units for different roles. One unit with resonance weapons and armor with trance and empath that makes each base inviolable against mind worms (and is a decent combatant against normal units as well) alongside units with ECM and AAA. If I'm getting bombarded I can airlift an artillery unit in and put a stop to that nonsense. I usually wait to go on offensive campaigns until I have hovertanks and choppers.[/quote] I build about five different units. I build one garrison unit, which generally gets speed upgrades as power plants allow (going up to Rover when I get Fusion Power). This lets me slide them around, particularly if I am invading an area. Generally, he's ECM/Non-Lethal, although I've been known to make him ECM/AA if I'm getting bombarded a lot. Second distinct unit is my Clean Chopper with highest weapon available to me. This is my attack force. Third is my Drop Troop, which looks exactly like a Garrison, only it is Drop/Clean. Fourth are my Formers who get speed upgrades as power allows, and pick up Fungicide/Super as tech allows. Late-game, after I have eradicated most fungus, they move to Super/Clean. Fifth is the Supply, who get faster as power allows.

Military MO is to bombard with Choppers until your city is empty, then jump a trooper into and take over. Because it has highest defense available to me, it can hold the fort until I can build a garrison unit. Continue until everything is mine.


The secret project that stops all drone riots (telepathic matrix? Been a while) is the biggest must-have for me. The sudden influx of resources from that thing is lifechanging. Add the cloning vats so all bases are in permanent population boom and you're unstoppable. Actually, the one that lets you do Cybernetic without penalty is even more valuable to you.


I've always found it particularly amusing when a faction leader contacts me and says "Fear me and give me tribute or my forces with their brand-new chaos guns will destroy you!" when my military is sporting grav guns and singularity lasers.

Yea... I always get a chuckle out of that...

"My new troops ((4)/1/2) are unstoppable!"
"Yea, tell that to my 13/1/12 Clean Choppers..."

[Douglas]

Apart from the nostalgia value of this thread, It has also been useful in learning about some things I did not know about SMAC, such as the Fungal Bloom avoidance exploit mentioned earlier,
What really annoys me about that one is that a) the supposed formula for eco-damage is explicitly given in the in-game documentation (the Datalinks) and b) that part of the real formula is not even hinted at, much less mentioned explicitly. I only learned it by searching the game's forums for information, and the folks who posted it had to figure it out by in game experimentation. I have since used it to my advantage, so I can testify from personal experience that at least the idea is correct, though I never bothered calculating exact numbers to verify it.


and that Morgan played properly can easily outtech Zakharov. I've never like playing as Morgan, but I'll have to give it a try again based on what I've read here.
Provided Zakharov doesn't use Free Market. Morgan would still get more energy, but by far the biggest jump is at +2 where you get +1 energy per square, and Free Market can give that to anyone who doesn't have an economic penalty. Further increases only improve commerce and base squares as I recall, which I don't think is enough to match Zakharov's research bonus and free Network Nodes.


I also don't mind the MOO2 discussion, but unfortunately, no machine that I still own can run it, so that info is of little use.
I've got it running just fine on my Windows XP machine, so that shouldn't be a problem. Amusingly, I noticed recently that it is affected by Y2K - all my saved games are from years 108 and 109.

[Mando Knight]

I'm rather fond of using ECM/Trance garrisons, partly because both of the upgrades become free with decent defense.

I also don't use recycling tanks after getting the Pressure Dome upgrade unlocked... pressure domes count as recycling tanks, so you can scrap & recycle the tanks without losing your resource bonuses.

[Caewil]

Yeah, but pressure domes cost resources to build, IIRC.

[TerraImmorits]

Alright...

Well, I'm still trying to get a game of SMAC in multiplayer... I'll be opening another new one at 2:30AM Eastern (GMC -6) and hanging out for an hour to see if anyone's around.

[A. Hamster]

Provided Zakharov doesn't use Free Market. Morgan would still get more energy, but by far the biggest jump is at +2 where you get +1 energy per square, and Free Market can give that to anyone who doesn't have an economic penalty. Further increases only improve commerce and base squares as I recall, which I don't think is enough to match Zakharov's research bonus and free Network Nodes.Okay. Still going to give this a try ... even if it does mean playing Morgan.


I've got it running just fine on my Windows XP machine, so that shouldn't be a problem. Amusingly, I noticed recently that it is affected by Y2K - all my saved games are from years 108 and 109.Thanks, that's good to know. When I upgraded to Win 98 SE back in the day, MOO2 would CTD just after you started a new game. Since it did not work with 98 SE, I did not bother to try installing it with my new XP tower.

As it is, for Space 4x, I bought Galactic Civilizations II: Ultimate Edition, and that is what I'm playing now. It's interesting, but it does not have the same addiction factor for me that a Sid Meier game does. Still, new game, lots of new features to explore so Gal Civ should keep me busy for a while. (Then I'll go back to Civ 4)

[Caewil]

Yes, but Free Market = worm food. Not to mention the horrible police penalty. On transcendent mode, you do need police for drone control, especially as Zharakov.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Yes, but Free Market = worm food. Not to mention the horrible police penalty. On transcendent mode, you do need police for drone control, especially as Zharakov.

That's why you go Morgan + Democrat + Green + Wealth + (eventually) Cybernetic. Now the worms LOVE you. Your efficiency maximizes your profit potentials from cities around Planet. And you make Zharakov weep with envy at your research numbers.

[Ethdred]

That's why you go Morgan + Democrat + Green + Wealth + (eventually) Cybernetic. Now the worms LOVE you. Your efficiency maximizes your profit potentials from cities around Planet. And you make Zharakov weep with envy at your research numbers.

Perhaps, but your people hate you and revolt all your cities away. I'm glad to see someone else mention the problem of police - I was beginning to think that was a bug in my version of the game

[Douglas]

It's been a while since I've played so my memory could be off on this, but isn't Morgan not allowed to use Green economics? Every faction has one social engineering choice it can't use as I recall, and I'm pretty sure Morgan's is Green.

[Winter_Wolf]

Morgan can use Green, but not Planned. That's why it's hard to get him to pop boom unless you use some serious fiddling with the sliders to keep you people happy. On the plus (?) side, with a pre Hab Complex base size limit of 4, you don't really need to worry about it, just crank out colony pods and built the infinite city spread. Ugly as sin but it works really well.

It's Domai who can't use Green, if you've got SMAX. He's a killer builder if you run Planned-Wealth-Eudamonia (initial 2,+1+1+2), but you build so fast that eventually there's nothing left to build unless you do a bunch of stockpile energy at bases because your research stinks. In my games with Domai, the research factions are always the first to get annihilated, so it's a pretty slow game. (Then again, I tend to avoid sending troops out until another faction invades my continent.)

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Perhaps, but your people hate you and revolt all your cities away. I'm glad to see someone else mention the problem of police - I was beginning to think that was a bug in my version of the game

Well, none of these have any penalties to Police, so it is no more or less difficult to keep your drones from rioting. In fact, it's a heck of a lot easier because 1) Morganites have lower pop cap to start off with, so fewer total pop means fewer drones to have to deal with, 2) VASTLY more energy means you can afford to put 10% into keeping the people happy, which is all you really need, and 3) building projects helps overcome this significantly.

It is certainly easier to keep your drones content than with the University, who has extra drones and not as much Energy output.

[mangosta71]

Or become governor, allow atrocities, and nerve staple your citizens into submission.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Or become governor, allow atrocities, and nerve staple your citizens into submission.

Usually too many people whine about it to get a majority unless you've already stomped Lal, University, Gaia, and a couple others. Pretty much, the only ones that will go along with this are Believers, Hive, and sometimes the Spartans.

[mangosta71]

Usually too many people whine about it to get a majority unless you've already stomped Lal, University, Gaia, and a couple others. Pretty much, the only ones that will go along with this are Believers, Hive, and sometimes the Spartans.

Play as University. That's one opponent down. In the turn before you call the Council to convene on the topic, have a bunch of colony pods set up new bases that you can then cede to the others as inducement to vote with you. Lal will always go against you, but Deirdre, Morgan, and Santiago (if necessary) can be bought.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Play as University. That's one opponent down. In the turn before you call the Council to convene on the topic, have a bunch of colony pods set up new bases that you can then cede to the others as inducement to vote with you. Lal will always go against you, but Deirdre, Morgan, and Santiago (if necessary) can be bought.

Ceding bases is a bad idea. Always.

Besides, why bother when you can just keep them happy for practically nothing?