Theroy about Monster in the Dark

[MercyfulFate]

Hello everyone. I have been thinking about this for awhile now, and finally got around to registering. I apologize if this has been done before, but I could not find it on the search function.

The monster in the dark is actually Snarl, and Xykon is just messing around with everyone because he thinks it's funny. I mean we have seen how powerful he is. He has a fit and stops on the ground causing a massive earthquake. The god killing creature he once was lost his sanity from years of imprisonment. I think it's perfectly in character for Xykon to pull a fast one like that.:)



I don't know if this impossible because I never read Start of Darkness or Origins of PCs. So if so please be kind. :smallbiggrin:

[Haven]

Hey, welcome to the boards. The search function is below (and a little to the left of) the box that says "Welcome, MercyfulFate. You last visited: X. Private messages..."

This is actually a pretty popular theory, but to me it seems unlikely, because people that see it seem to recognize it and knowledge of the Snarl isn't widely known (even to V). Particularly in its intro scene in SoD (I know you haven't read it, but it's definitely worth the purchase price) the people who find it recognize it and they're certainly not master arcanists or anything. Moreover, Xykon thinks people should be scared of it, and if shown a fragment of the Snarl the likely response would probably be "Huh? It's crayony?" instead of fear.

[Porthos]

Nope. :smallsmile: Popular idea tho.

Rich has said, on record, that the MitD IS NOT a "made-up monster", which precludes it from being somthing related to the Snarl.

(from WaXP commentary):

Rich is also on record as saying that he knows what the MitD is, when he will reveal it and that he will sprinkle enough clues throughtout the comics that people might be able to guess what it is ahead of time.

He has also said that he knew what the MitD was as of around Comic #100, but that nothing that precededs that strip really precludes what the MitD actually is.

So the trick is to look at all of the MitD's apperances since #100 (including SoD) and look for clues to figure out just what it is. :smallsmile:

[MercyfulFate]

Thanks for the welcome, now if only knew more about DnD :biggrin: Thanks for the info though. Now all I need to do is find out what are the most powerful creatures, their mannerisms, and all the spells/abilities they have and find out lol.

[FujinAkari]

Thanks for the welcome, now if only knew more about DnD :biggrin: Thanks for the info though. Now all I need to do is find out what are the most powerful creatures, their mannerisms, and all the spells/abilities they have and find out lol.

Well, keep in mind that Rich never said -anything- about it being a "nonmade-up D&D monster." The most popular theory has it being Baby Godzilla :)

[Thajocoth]

My money's on him being a Tarrasque. I have no specific reason to think that... But given how much the Tarrasque is tossed around as a monster you never put in your campaign unless you want to wipe the party, it makes sense, I think, that a joke about that would be made at some point.

[DoctorJest]

My money's on him being a Tarrasque. I have no specific reason to think that... But given how much the Tarrasque is tossed around as a monster you never put in your campaign unless you want to wipe the party, it makes sense, I think, that a joke about that would be made at some point.

Except that the Tarrasque is roughly the size of Godzilla, which kinda makes it unlikely.

[DoctorJest]

Well, keep in mind that Rich never said -anything- about it being a "nonmade-up D&D monster." The most popular theory has it being Baby Godzilla :)

Now a BABY tarrasque maybe.

[Ancalagon]

Now a BABY tarrasque maybe.

This has been discussed over and over... it's not a baby tarrasque because the Monster Manual states there is only THE tarrasque, so there's only one (you COULD argue that there is only "one at a time", but guess that's not what the book means).

[Thajocoth]

Pink Umbrella of Resizing -3.

[Lunar Historian]

Perhaps someone who has faced a tarrasque can shed some light on this subject, but what is preventing a L20 party from flying outside the reach of the creature and pounding it with death effects until it fails a save against one that goes through spell penetration, then casting Miracle or Wish? There are plenty of such effects that are not reflected, and the tarrasque doesn't seem capable of jumping consistently against a target that's flying near the maximum reach limit.

[Mystic Muse]

you also want to look for creatures with low intelligence around about 9 or ten. lower would be around thog's level and anything lower than thog might not even be able to speak basic.another reason the tarasque is excluded is I'm pretty sure it can't speak and as has been mentioned before it isn't the size of Godzilla so that automatically excludes the tarrasque. so look for a creature about medium height or large. also avoid the creatures that say always evil since the monster isn't really evil. he's just stupid. or she. you can't really tell yet. oh and Godzilla can't speak either so a baby godzilla is also out.

[Thajocoth]

you also want to look for creatures with low intelligence around about 9 or ten. lower would be around thog's level and anything lower than thog might not even be able to speak basic.another reason the tarasque is excluded is I'm pretty sure it can't speak and as has been mentioned before it isn't the size of Godzilla so that automatically excludes the tarrasque. so look for a creature about medium height or large. also avoid the creatures that say always evil since the monster isn't really evil. he's just stupid. or she. you can't really tell yet. oh and Godzilla can't speak either so a baby godzilla is also out.

And probably a decent Wis as he's good at board games. And... Has a stomp attack of some sort.

[Ridureyu]

The Monster in the Dark is Grover.

[Mystic Muse]

no it's SUPER GROVER!

I think strength would affect the stomp more than wisdom but I'm not too familiar with 3.5 yet

[DrGonzo]

no it's SUPER GROVER!

I think strength would affect the stomp more than wisdom but I'm not too familiar with 3.5 yet

Yup.. True.. But I think Thajocoth mentioned Wis beause of the board games, and not in relation to the stomp.

Edit: Forgot "not"

[Mystic Muse]

yeah the board games point I concede. speaking of which does anybody find it funny that PCs play D&D in a world based on D&D besides me?

[Belkster11]

By the way it acts, we know it's a small child of some sort.

We also know that this creature can create powerful shockwaves/earthquake by stomping its foot, and able to fling a human far away with a mere tap (See Miko's 'duel' with it).

It doesn't feel pain at all.

It could be the monster's kinda grotesque-looking seeing as everyone demands it stays hidden. Rich wouldn't repeat the "Come out when the villian's lecturing about how feeble the heros are" joke for 500 comics (MitD's first apperance was in strip 100). Clearly the creature's in the dark for a reason.

[Iain]

It doesn't feel pain at all.
Yes it does - it's just very tough externally (high DR).
Internally, it's vulnerable even to tiny paper cuts:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0375.html

[Mannryu]

I am not quite familiar with the Monster Manual and do not really know all the big scary tough like monsters, but is it possible that MitD is a Balor? A small one I'll add. I just think it is possible, for I had huge problems defeating it in BG: SoA game.
May someone shine some light on my theory and tell me if I'm totally wrong or if there is a chance that I'm right?

[Laughing Dragon]

you also want to look for creatures with low intelligence around about 9 or ten. lower would be around thog's level and anything lower than thog might not even be able to speak basic ... so look for a creature about medium height or large. also avoid the creatures that say always evil since the monster isn't really evil. he's just stupid. or she. you can't really tell yet.

The monster is not stupid, just naive. Outside of the childish board games that Xykon and company seem to encourage it to play, O'Chul is teaching it Go, a game that requires superior intellegence, strategy and forethought (and it was learning it easily).

So ... what we have here is a highly intellegent creature being raised/kept in an un-enriched environment; it may seem stupid on the surface, but to assume that it IS stupid would probably be a fatal mistake.

Yes, I think that there is a pretty good chance that it is a Balor or at least some type of lower planes creature. But that's just me.

[Lunar Historian]

The monster is not stupid, just naive. Outside of the childish board games that Xykon and company seem to encourage it to play, O'Chul is teaching it Go, a game that requires superior intellegence, strategy and forethought (and it was learning it easily).
O-Chul is teaching it a game where the players put black and white marbles on a grid, presumably a common one from the real life Asia. There are two such games: go and five in a row (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_in_a_Row_(game)). We do not know what game O-Chul was teaching it.

[Mystic Muse]

maybe it's not stupid but all the lights might not be on upstairs. have you noticed in that one comic how many times he was asking about the gate when it had been explained to him? also i don't think it's a Balor since I think that according to 3.5 rules demons are never allowed to be good except through house rules. that's at least what I've heard from people on this forum who I think have actually played.

[faith]

huh, i thought O-chul was teaching him to play tic-tac-toe.

[JJ48]

Well, I don't think the INT of the MitD will necessarily match the INT in any Monster Manual, because of one thing from Start of Darkness:

The people who discovered it had never heard of one that could speak before.

That being said, it seems to me that maybe it is a type of Ooze, specifically a Black Pudding, perhaps? I know the size is a bit off, but maybe it's a small one. And they apparently eat pretty much anything, as well as being EXTREMELY heavy (which even if the D&D rules don't allow, common sense would say could cause minor earthquakes like the one the MitD caused).

Hm...I suppose I should look through my other Monster Manuals to see if there's any other Ooze that fits better, so for now, the search is on!

[Laughing Dragon]

Sorry ... Ooze don't have feet ... therefore how could "he" stomp his foot?

[JJ48]

Hm...good point. What about some sort of a construct? That could explain the strength, seeming invulnerability to damage (that we've seen so far), and the fact that, though people recognize what he is, that he's powerful enough to be Xykon's "ultimate weapon".

Though, admittedly, I don't think constructs speaking is necessarily odd, so maybe that doesn't work either.

[phoamslinger]

remember, the MitD is extremely chaotic. Tacos and vulture stew, yum! yum! chaotic. just because he's chaotic doesn't mean he has to be a bad person.

obviously he's a slaad, probably grey since they're big and scary.

(although I wouldn't put it past Rich to make him a purple, paisley, plaid, or polka-dotted slaad, just to be different).

[hamishspence]

Of the colours, gray (and death slaad, the warped version of the grey) is the only titchy one- Medium, wiry.

[phoamslinger]

one of them is pretty big. I don't have my books handy, but iirc, reds, blues and greens are medium or large, I thought grey was the big bruiser type and then they shrink down to scary death slaads (and a death slaad would probably be too smart to qualify).

and then there are the black and white and other colors out of the epic book. but again, even though slaads play the heavies in a lot of folks campaigns, that doesn't mean that they're necessarily bad guys.

[hamishspence]

red, blue, green, white, are all Large. Gray/death (identical in looks) are medium. Black is Huge.

Thats in 3.5. Still- point of the monster is- it talks, and this is a big surprise to the hunters. Maybe original creature shouldn't be able to talk?

[bentheiii]

my guess is a big bad (not the tarrassque) with a lot of never-heard-of-templates, but i guess the long list includes these:

doungenbred (doungenscape) a few times: basicly makes you smaller

half-gem dragon(mm2): not quite certin but he is offered as the matirial component for animate dead in 299

half earth elemental (manual of the planes): that earthquake ability, why he's so ugly (SOD) and most of all: why he's immone to sword but vulnerable to paper cuts: paper beats rock beats cossors:smallwink:

[hamishspence]

War & XPs "It is possible to guess" and "it would be unfair if it was something I'd just made up on the spot"

That said, it will probably be tricky.

[Laughing Dragon]

remember, the MitD is extremely chaotic. Tacos and vulture stew, yum! yum! chaotic. just because he's chaotic doesn't mean he has to be a bad person.

obviously he's a slaad, probably grey since they're big and scary.

Ones diet doesn't make one chaotic. Remember, Xykon tries to feed him children but he "just pushes them around his plate and throws them away when Xykon's not looking."

[bentheiii]

i just remembered something- the hunters were suprised that mitd could speak common- but was at 3rd edition! maybe there's some monster that coldn't talk then- but could talk now (3.5), maybe mitd was converted early (or everyone else was late).

[David Argall]

huh, i thought O-chul was teaching him to play tic-tac-toe.

Tic-tac-toe hardly rates as a hard game, even with the MitD's intellect.
Go does, and has a proper oriental flavor. Moreover, it has a fine handicap system that in theory allows even the gross beginner to have a decent chance vs the world's best. So it is well suited for entertaining both sides when the skill levels are quite different.

The Snarl is a tempting choice in some respects. It does not seem to have been active since the MitD has been on the stage, and with 3 gates gone, the one in Azure City grossly so, it is odd that it hasn't made an appearance. So it makes some sense that it already has. Maybe there is a 6th rift somewhere, and the Snarl got out that way, but was injured in the process...

Still, we do have the writer saying it is not, and other than being really powerful, the two don't seem to have much in common.

[Iain]

half earth elemental (manual of the planes): that earthquake ability, why he's so ugly (SOD) and most of all: why he's immone to sword but vulnerable to paper cuts: paper beats rock beats cossors:smallwink:
Whether or not that turns out to be right, it's definitely worth a round of applause and a virtual beer!

[GSFB]

I am torn between two theories:

1) Tarrasque, but in an alternate form. The legend of the Tarrasque is that once every few centuries or so, it appears, destroys civilizations, then disappears. It is gone so long, that later generations begin to think of it is myth and legend, rather than real monster. And no one has ever stumbled upon a Tarrasque in hibernation or anything. So, between rampages, where does it go? My theory is that after eating a city or two, the Tarrasque changes form. It becomes something small, that can easily hide in the jungles or caves, and remain hidden. But even though in a small form, it still retains tremendous power. Xykon knows what this smaller creature really is, and what sort of destruction can be unleashed. Xykon has the secret of how to make the smaller form explode into full-blown Tarrasqueness. He is simply waiting for the right moment to unleash it upon his foes.

2) Slaad, that is in the process of transforming into a Death Slaad. We have no idea what the transformation process from one Slaad form to another entails. Only that Slaads progress from one form to another. A Death Slaad is extremely powerful. MitD is in a transitionary state and, at the momeny, is limited as to what it can do. But it is still able to eat (a lot), interact with its surroundings, and exhibit strength and power. Xykon knows what it is, and has the power to complete the transformation when he believes unleashing a Death Slaad under his command would have the most impact.

I am leaning more towards the first as most plausible, but I have a personal desire for the second as most fun.

[Ladorak]

Rich has stated it's a real monster (Good enough for me!), but we possess very little information as to the beast itself...

We know it has eyes, shouldn't be able to talk, has high DR or suchlike, has very high STR stat and is no larger then large, no smaller than small.

Assuming it's in MM1-5 and assuming it's challenge rating 19 or so (For :xykon:the epic sorcerer to consider it an ace in the hole I imagine it's about there) there's almost nothing it could be. One has to assume that the MitD is either not in the MMs or is a template beasty. Either way there's almost anything it could be...

[Raging Gene Ray]

Yes it does - it's just very tough externally (high DR).
Internally, it's vulnerable even to tiny paper cuts:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0375.html

That's because paper cuts are Piercing damage.




half-gem dragon(mm2): not quite certin but he is offered as the matirial component for animate dead in 299

half earth elemental (manual of the planes): that earthquake ability, why he's so ugly (SOD) and most of all: why he's immone to sword but vulnerable to paper cuts: paper beats rock beats cossors:smallwink:

When Redcloak mentioned using the MitD as raw materials, that sounded more like a velied threat to kill him and zombify him if he got too annoying. I do like that theory on papercuts, though.

[Boogastreehouse]

half earth elemental (manual of the planes): that earthquake ability, why he's so ugly (SOD) and most of all: why he's immone to sword but vulnerable to paper cuts: paper beats rock beats cossors:smallwink:


I do like that theory on papercuts, though.

I love this. I think that it's actually entirely likely that this is part of the joke, especially since the Giant has already used the joke before (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0424.html), setting us up for the zinger!

[Cizak]

Impossible.

SoD Spoiler:
Redcloak says: "I know what you are..." to MitD. And we know that he saw MitD on the circus-stage. And we also know that RC is pretty much desperate of finding the gate and warping the Snarl. So id he had een the snarl on earth, don't you think he'd react?

[Berserk Monk]

No. The MitD is Ochul's bastard son he had with Vaarsuvius back before he became a paladin, and Belkar is Lawful Good.

[Lamech]

My semi-serious prediction. He's a kobold. Yes THAT kobold. Pun-Pun.

Anyway what do we know about him. Eats anything, zombifyalbe, earthquake ability, insane DR (probably addy or epic or even -), insane strength score, normally can't talk common, normally doesn't live in jungles. My prediction works, as I'm sure does other stuff, but what?

[Volkov]

Perhaps someone who has faced a tarrasque can shed some light on this subject, but what is preventing a L20 party from flying outside the reach of the creature and pounding it with death effects until it fails a save against one that goes through spell penetration, then casting Miracle or Wish? There are plenty of such effects that are not reflected, and the tarrasque doesn't seem capable of jumping consistently against a target that's flying near the maximum reach limit.

He can rush you much, much faster than you can fly. And when he rushes you, you get frightful presenced. Then bitten. Also, Some of us DM's give it the Paragon template and the monster of legend at the same time. Hooray for triple speed! 450 feet per round when rushing. Heheh.

[Mr. Mud]

Lamech: I actually like your idea, but cause when it gets down to it, OOTS values humor over being 100% Rulebook/Logically correct.

And the Ghost of Pun-Pun might be the funniest idea I've heard :smallbiggrin:.

And on the subject of Immensely powerful people, with names of Neanderthals, MITD might be Bam-Bam from the Flintstones :smallwink:.

[Gamgee]

i just remembered something- the hunters were suprised that mitd could speak common- but was at 3rd edition! maybe there's some monster that coldn't talk then- but could talk now (3.5), maybe mitd was converted early (or everyone else was late).

I'm surprised no one looked at your point as it was quite good. Just giving a nod to your point so I can hopefully get some Guru to come in and say something informative about the matter.

[JJ48]

Also, even though it's not unique, (since some people can recognize it), it may still be rare. This, along with someone else's suggestion that it may not be 3.5, makes me wonder if it could have even been from BEFORE 3. Yeah, I know the chamber in Dorukan's castle was supposed to house all monsters not upgraded, but what if some escaped, or weren't captured there? Time to check even MORE sources.

[TSED]

I can't tell you who originally came up with this, but I remember reading a rather compelling argument that it was a Greater Basilisk with a ton of templates added to it (he specified which ones). Basically justified everything (from having a really low wis and passable int to earthquakes to why it was kept in the dark (petrification gaze) to its DR).


But yeah, it's been too long to remember any more details. Sorry.
(Once again, not my theory, I just think he's got the most likely I've ever read.)

[Selrahc]

My semi-serious prediction. He's a kobold. Yes THAT kobold. Pun-Pun.

Anyway what do we know about him. Eats anything, zombifyalbe, earthquake ability, insane DR (probably addy or epic or even -), insane strength score, normally can't talk common, normally doesn't live in jungles. My prediction works, as I'm sure does other stuff, but what?

Monster in the Darkness first showed up in 2003, Pun Pun didn't get created until 2005. I'd say it is a remote possibility.

[brilliantlight]

you also want to look for creatures with low intelligence around about 9 or ten. lower would be around thog's level and anything lower than thog might not even be able to speak basic.

9 or 10 would be AVERAGE not low. I would give MITD probably a 4-6.

[Volkov]

9 or 10 would be AVERAGE not low. I would give MITD probably a 4-6.

If it had a intelligence score that low it would have a pretty severe speech impediment.

[Laughing Dragon]

I really don't think that the MitD has low intellegence ... he's just naive/innocent/inexperienced.

He has shown capacity to learn and understand, but not always to recognize complexities or subtleties ... hence the famous "now about this gate you keep talking about" quote from the conversation between Xykon & MitD.

The clue that his monster type (even if it isn't true for him) is evil, is shown by the fact that being kept in a cage and presented live children for dinner (whether he eats them or not) seems normal to him. That could just be the innocence again though.

More important (for me at this time) though is whether O'Chul is doing OOTS a favor by befriending MitD, or is merely honing the intellegence that he has (making him a more formitable opponant).

[Studoku]

My theory:

The MitD is a grue.

[Volkov]

I really don't think that the MitD has low intellegence ... he's just naive/innocent/inexperienced.

He has shown capacity to learn and understand, but not always to recognize complexities or subtleties ... hence the famous "now about this gate you keep talking about" quote from the conversation between Xykon & MitD.

The clue that his monster type (even if it isn't true for him) is evil, is shown by the fact that being kept in a cage and presented live children for dinner (whether he eats them or not) seems normal to him. That could just be the innocence again though.

More important (for me at this time) though is whether O'Chul is doing OOTS a favor by befriending MitD, or is merely honing the intellegence that he has (making him a more formitable opponant).
The MITD doesn't have a low Intelligence score, it's weak point seems to be either Wisdom or Charisma, or maybe both. But if these were to improve any time soon, OOTSworld could be in trouble.

[TSED]

I agree.

The Giant has left many a clue that the MitD is not actually dumb, merely lacking wisdom. Everything from Ochul teaching him Go to his capable (but not great) speech.

I'd peg him at 10 int myself, maaaaybe a 9 but that seems unlikely.


I've got no idea on charisma though. He doesn't seem particularly persuasive, but then, Red Cloak and Xykon will have ridiculous will saves.

[Onyavar]

The Snarl is a tempting choice in some respects. It does not seem to have been active since the MitD has been on the stage, and with 3 gates gone, the one in Azure City grossly so, it is odd that it hasn't made an appearance. So it makes some sense that it already has. Maybe there is a 6th rift somewhere, and the Snarl got out that way, but was injured in the process...

Still, we do have the writer saying it is not, and other than being really powerful, the two don't seem to have much in common.

Like the starter of this thread, I like the idea of the snarl having lost most of its powers and memories when it slipped through the gate, now known as the MitD.
I strongly believe the MitD to be a snarl offspring/offshoot of some kind, perhaps even the snarl itself.

Just imagine when it comes to the great showdown: All the evil forces (xykon, fiends, nale, and "a few D-listeners we dont even know about") have had a tight race with each other and the order of the stick, and now open the last gate to unleash the ultimate power of the snarl - and there is no snarl behind the gate! Instead, the Snarl/MitD has been taught by the paladin prisoner of Xykons and refuses to obey the evil forces. :smallamused:
Instead Elan becomes best buddy with MitD (great minds think alike) and that way Elan gets his happy ending, ruling a "fairy-tale world kingdom" along with the "paladin snarl". :smallcool:Ok, thats very, very, very speculative, so I will put it in spoiler tags.

Pro hints, that MitD = Snarl:
- being really powerful
- not being very clever/understanding (see oots 275)
- the snarl has already escaped once (see 275 again, although it couldn't break free completely)
- somehow related to the gates (the MitD can't see these gates or perceives them in another way)
- the snarl being only mentioned in a legend, which could be exaggerated or distorted (!)
- the snarl was trapped for thousands of years, what could have had impact on his sanity/power/form. The snarl fed on the Gods hate, so its possible that it became more and more powerless, since the pantheons work together now.
- the snarl is inactive since tMitD is on the stage

Con arguments, that MitD is not the snarl:
- those people who found the MitD seemed to recognized it as a common yet anomalous monster
- the snarl doesn't seem to have changed its shape in #275
- a statement of Mr Burlew, who _perhaps_ told us so (see below)

I was told that the Giant on some occasion said something like "the MitD is not some monster made up on the spot". The snarl however was planned since comic 120 (at least), thats when the azure city storyline began. Said quote above is not an explicit statement (*) that the MitD is not the snarl, and I dont know if there are other "insider informations" regarding this topic.

In this thread someone had the idea of the MitD being an earth elemental of some kind - this idea is also quite nice and I like it!

(*)except for nitpickers, mathematicians and lawyers, but on the other hand I don't know in what context the quote of the "non-made-up-monster" was formulated. I read this quote more than once, and the wording differed (!)

[Laughing Dragon]

MY pet theory about MitD is:

He is the character Gorgon from the Marvel comic series "The Inhumans."

Not terrably high Charisma or Intellegence (or wisdom, really), great in a fight, causes earthquakes when he stamps his foot.

This choice would make him neither made-up-from-scratch, nor possible to find in the monster manuals.

Although, if memory serves ... it seems to me that there was a 1.0 monster that could cause earthquakes with the stomp of his foot ... I may have to spelunk my old books and find out what that was!

[Dreganastra]

OMG the MitD is James Earl Jones! why you may ask? Because James Earl Jones is God.

[Mariel Dragon]

I still favor the two theories:

a. MiTD is Rich Burlew himself

b. MiTD is a grue

But IIRC Rich stated that :mitd: is an D&D monster, so none of those may apply

[Skaroq]

Well, we know that it has high DR, is naive and child-like, has an above-average INT score for it's kind, has an astonishingly high STR score, is not expected to be found in the jungle, is either a carnivore or an omnivore, likely belongs to an evil or demonic species, is incredibly ugly, can cause earthquakes by stomping, has glow-in-the-dark eyes, and is a D&D monster. It just might be a grue, seeing as they are incredibly powerful and have glowing eyes, but this theory is repelled by the fact that grues fear the light, and the monster in the darkness doesn't want to be in the darkness, as shown by the flashlight and the light archons, as well as wanting to throw off the umbrella. I think that it's an epic-level monster, maybe around CR 22. I looked through my D&D books that contain monsters, i.e., MM, MM2, Draconomicon, RotW, DotU, and LoM. There's nothing in there that is a likely candidate for the monster in the darkness, unless it's crossed with something else. I only have those 3.5 books. Quick, people, get out all your other monster books and look through them! It's got to be in there somewhere.

[CapedLuigiYoshi]

It can't be the Snarl. Not only has it been pointed out that the hunters and Redcloak know what exactly it is (which wouldn't be possible for the Snarl), but the Snarl cannot percieve the gates in any way.

THE MONSTER IN THE DARKNESS CAN SEE THE GATES. Check the ending of Comic #96, where the MitD SEES THE GATE but doesn't recognize it as such. (Also quoted in my sig for exactly this reason.)

[NemFX]

I think I figured it out..

Super strong, super powerful, takes no damage.. It must be.. Chuck Norris!


.. But seriously, from what I can interpret.. The MitD has a low intelligence, low perception, and low wisdom. The evidence is pretty blatant (not noticing that Mr. Stiffley was in fact dead, for example, and so forth)

As for what it is.. There is a creature or spell, I forget the specifics, but basically it's some form of animated darkness.. It's called something like "Orb of destruction" and it's described as being a ball of darkness that destroys anything it touches. Someone will have to post the specifics, but that's my general thought.

Also, one thing to notice.. So far, the MitD has only shown that it has eyes. It's only implied to have a mouth. It can speak basic, and can do an earthquake like ability. It may or may not have hands as you don't see it holding the umbrella, may or may not have feet. It also might have magical darkness cast on it, as natural light hasn't changed it's visibility.

[Teddy]

I think I figured it out..

Super strong, super powerful, takes no damage.. It must be.. Chuck Norris!


.. But seriously, from what I can interpret.. The MitD has a low intelligence, low perception, and low wisdom. The evidence is pretty blatant (not noticing that Mr. Stiffley was in fact dead, for example, and so forth)

That could just be lack of knowledge. If we never heard of death, we would have a pretty hard time recognize that a person is dead.


As for what it is.. There is a creature or spell, I forget the specifics, but basically it's some form of animated darkness.. It's called something like "Orb of destruction" and it's described as being a ball of darkness that destroys anything it touches. Someone will have to post the specifics, but that's my general thought.

The Sphere of Anhillation is a rift in the multiverse. It's a major artefact, and it's highly unlikely that the :mitd: is one because then he would have anhillated Miko and Windstriker, among everything else.


Also, one thing to notice.. So far, the MitD has only shown that it has eyes. It's only implied to have a mouth. It can speak basic, and can do an earthquake like ability. It may or may not have hands as you don't see it holding the umbrella, may or may not have feet. It also might have magical darkness cast on it, as natural light hasn't changed it's visibility.

It's got at least some means of carrying flashlights, tacos, umbrellas and hitting :miko: and Windstriker. I would guess it's got some sort of hands.

[Dagren]

Also, one thing to notice.. So far, the MitD has only shown that it has eyes. It's only implied to have a mouth. It can speak basic, and can do an earthquake like ability. It may or may not have hands as you don't see it holding the umbrella, may or may not have feet. It also might have magical darkness cast on it, as natural light hasn't changed it's visibility.Well it got a paper-cut on it's tongue here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0375.html), which implies it has a mouth very strongly. Also here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0477.html), which similarly implies it has feet. Are these what you are referring to? As to the darkness, look here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0147.html). It's pretty plain what is causing it, and I don't think it's the monster itself.

[Laughing Dragon]

The glowing eyes are probably just a convention so that the MitD can interact with the other characters in the strip. Think about it ... without the eyes floating under the "hello kitty" umbrella the MitD would have far less personality.

I hope that on their trip to the next gate, the MitD will get in some "sunbathing" and we will get to see his feet poking out from under the umbrella.:smallwink:

[lothos]

I love some of these theories. I do think there is a certain pleasing quality to the idea that the monster is actually the snarl or a part of it. Though I've often heard that Rich has said that it's not a monster he made up, does anyone have his *exact* words ? The difference between "A monster I just made up on the spot" and "A monster I made up" is pretty significant here.

I don't know what the monster is, but I do have a related prediction that I originally posted in another thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5772875#post5772875).

Anyway:

We are pretty sure that Kraagor's gate near the Northern polar cap will be the last gate in the story. We also can be reasonably confident Rich won't want to reveal what the MITD is till near the end of the story.

We know that Kraagor's gate was defended by Srini - "...she decided she would fill it with the nastiest monsters in the world...."
(see http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html)

So what if one of the monsters in the Tomb around Kraagor's gate is another of the species of the MITD ? They meet in the Tomb and the other one is also in a box or cage or other enclosure, but crucially is also shrouded in darkness......

Perhaps they even fall in love and live happily ever after :-) So we might know that there is another one before actually knowing what it/they are (possibly only a few strips after the two meet.



Cheers.

[Tackyhillbillu]

We are pretty sure that Kraagor's gate near the Northern polar cap will be the last gate in the story. We also can be reasonably confident Rich won't want to reveal what the MITD is till near the end of the story.

We know that Kraagor's gate was defended by Srini - "...she decided she would fill it with the nastiest monsters in the world...."
(see http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html)

So what if one of the monsters in the Tomb around Kraagor's gate is another of the species of the MITD ? They meet in the Tomb and the other one is also in a box or cage or other enclosure, but crucially is also shrouded in darkness......

Perhaps they even fall in love and live happily ever after :-) So we might know that there is another one before actually knowing what it/they are (possibly only a few strips after the two meet.



They'll live happily ever after for two strips, at which point Belkar will kill them.

And as for Grues, they were D&D Monsters as of 3.5. Their in Complete Arcane as Elemental Grues. However, they do seem unlikely as a candidate, due to their individual natures.

[Elan man]

I think :xykon: created him

[liooil2000]

It can't be the snarl, because or else it would've unraveled Miko. It is probably a moster based on known mosters, or a half-breed.

[Elan man]

its a puppy

[kimagure]

I figured it out. The monster in the darkness is a Vermiurge.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/79218950/162/VERMIURGE

It's an epic creature with a STR 34 and INT 18, Dr 30/+5 and a whole bunch of features. It's pretty ugly based on the picture.

The things that convince me are:
1. It's got a concealing aura that gives it permanent 9/10 concealment.
2. It has an aura of swarming insects (the demonic cockroaches).
3. It has a Frightful presence that can cause affected creatures to be shaken.
4. The creature has the additional special qualities of "spell-like abilities" which explain the teleport and earthquake abilities. These abilities aren't defined anywhere in the entry (or that I can find) and are separate from the other auras/powers listed.
5. It can be found in any climate/terrain

The monster itself is probably just a large one (42-52 HD) which fits its size in the comic. It mentions at one point to O-Chul that its father was big. The 53-70 HD ones are Huge size.

[Nimrod's Son]

The Monster in the Darkness thread is here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253731); this one's been dead for three years.

(And the Vermiurge has been proposed and rejected already.)

[Boogastreehouse]

I think the MitG is a single thread from the snarl brought to life...

oh, wait...

THIS is the thread that was brought back to life.

[syris22]

i believe it is an extremely intelligent (for its kind) baby tarrasque

[Morquard]

Well hello there Mr Necromancer... you know the last post here was from 2012, right? And before that from 2009?

[LibraryOgre]

The Mod Wonder:
That which doth eternal lie
Through the eons, threads must die.