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Scubasteve0209
2009-04-08, 02:21 AM
In my latest 4e campaign I've dipped into the Monster Manual to play a Shadar-Kai wizard. character details notwithstanding, i've run into a "moral" issue. As I'm the only Ritual Spellcaster my fellow adventurers want me to eventually take on the Raise Dead ritual, a good call in any game, I know.

The Issue lies with how the Shadar-Kai view death. In all the text i've read (MM, MotP, Dragon 372, etc) the Shadar-Kai fully embrace their deaths as an inevitability and consider death in battle to be a glorious and desirable way to die. As such, I'm a touch uncomfortable saying I'll be the one to pull folks away from the Raven Queen's inevitable embrace.

I'm starting at 1st level, so there's plenty of time and character development to go through before this is even a pressing issue, but I'm just curious if anyone else has dealt with this, or how they have/would handle it.

~Scubasteve

Inyssius Tor
2009-04-08, 05:05 AM
Interesting dilemma you've got there. I am intrigued. Throwing thoughts out there... now.

----

Though they might see death as inevitable, the shadar-kai can't embrace it. If a kai in the Shadowfell embraces death, death will take him up on it--right then and there. Among the shadar-kai, death is not an intangible spectre; it's more like an ever-present Sword of Damocles, visibly hanging over the head of every kai.

They are linked to the Shadowfell, but they are not one with it. Their compounds do not belong there, any more than kaorti cysts belong on the Prime. They made a pact with the Raven Queen, but her actual tenets seem totally inverse to the philosophies the shadar-kai have embraced to survive. Look closely again at their origins: what did the Raven Queen give them? What promises did she extend, and what consequences followed her pact? Ask yourself: what did the Raven Queen really want?

She has left her mark on them, and they feel it in every breath they take. But that doesn't mean they love her; and as proverbially silent as the Raven Queen is, it's hard to tell what she thinks about anyone. Based on their philosophies, it would seem more likely that most shadar-kai regard her--perhaps as a lover, but not as the mother of their race. They laugh in the face of her abyss every time they exercise the gifts she granted them, the gifts she cannot revoke.

They fight the undead, yes, but that's self-interest at work: the undead are their largest threat, and moreover they represent a challenge. By this time, the hunting of the Dead is a cultural thing; the Dead are an aspect of life, like dinosaurs are to the halflings of Talenta.

As for necromancy?

They step beyond the veil of death every time they Shadow Jaunt, submerging themselves in shadow and just pulling free before the Raven Queen can take their souls. It's an intensely invigorating experience. To a kai, it's their entire being in microcosm; the Shadow Jaunt is who and what they are. Dangerous, reckless, brave. Invigorating. Laughing in the face of death, spitting in the eye of time, rebelling against their mistress; consequences are inevitable, but they'll dodge them as long as they possibly can.

And if pulling themselves back from that edge, snatching that minor prize from the hands of fate, is such an incredible rush... how about raising the stakes? Grab something else, while you're there. Make it even harder to swim back into Life. Steal another prize. Not because you need it, even though you might; just for the sheer adrenaline rush inherent in doing it. You can return it when you're done. In fact, that's part of the fun, like returning priceless art to the museum you stole it from.

----

Does any of that make any sense whatsoever?

...guess not. Oh well. :vaarsuvius:

Tiki Snakes
2009-04-08, 11:02 AM
I'm not sure I buy the 'rebellious nature' angle, but it could work I guess.

Or, there's always this;
Raising someone from the dead DOES NOT remove the inevitability of death AT ALL. You think the Raven Queen gets bent out of shape because some guy enters her domain in two years time, rather than right now? Heh. I'd be suprised.

Anyway, if I'm remembering Raise Dead at all, it's a Ritual keyed off of Religion skill anyway, right? Which means that as long as your Shader-Kai has the obvious choice of deity, he's basically directly petitioning The Raven Queen for the release of the dead-guy in question.

Seems simple enough to me. :)

Thajocoth
2009-04-08, 01:09 PM
It's more of a hatred to UNdeath... And is slightly hypocritical...

The Shadar-Kai were once humans who wanted to live much longer. The Raven Queen granted them that, though they slowly go numb as a result. (That's why all the tattoos & piercings... To feel something.) So they vehemently oppose that which the Raven Queen would oppose... Those who seek to evade death forever. The undead. Being alive means they can bring more souls of the people who're trying to cheat the Raven Queen right to the Raven Queen's doorstep. Though, a more evil Shadar-Kai, will make many living sacrifices to the Raven Queen as well. They see their death more as a sort of retirement, if that makes sense... So, while there is still more to do, they would be willing to resurrect their companions, if possible, but if they died as the adventure ends, then they might not. Or... They might, just to be sure you embraced death & refused to come back.

Scubasteve0209
2009-04-08, 03:11 PM
Anyway, if I'm remembering Raise Dead at all, it's a Ritual keyed off of Religion skill anyway, right? Which means that as long as your Shader-Kai has the obvious choice of deity, he's basically directly petitioning The Raven Queen for the release of the dead-guy in question.

Raise Dead keys off of Heal, so that means I'd have to burn a feat to get the skill (probably multiclass into ranger or warlord so I can get some handy nubbins at the same time), although the ritual does mention that you're praying to the gods to release a soul.

One angle I've taken that seems like it'd fit is that the Shadar-Kai are both driven to succeed and oddly tolerant of other's beliefs. In that way I could possibly rationalize that

1. I'm more likely to succeed in my adventures if my companions are alive and kicking.
2. While I myself might not choose to be raised from the dead, forcing that perspective on my companions would be unfair to their wants.

I'm enjoying the responses though, I hadn't considered that the Shadow Jaunt is really just a bungee jump towards death's door. Makes sense though, in the Shadowfell those Shadar-Kai that give in to the plane's malaise fade away into nothingness, and after an adventurer teleports they're insubstantial, which is like having to pull yourself back from the edge.

~Scubasteve

Randel
2009-04-08, 09:15 PM
Not sure if this helps but when I see the shadar-kai I'm reminded alot of the Nobodies from Kingdom Hearts 2. They are missing something and they can teleport.


Keep in mind that they live in the shadowfell, a world without color or joy and where when someone dies their corpse will naturally become infused with the shadow energy and rise up as a ravenous undead to feed on the flesh of the living.

Basically, they are in hell and given the choice of dying and turning into a monster that eats your family and loved ones... or just staying dead... its small wonder that the Raven Queen looks like a pretty nice deity given the choices they have.

The Raven Queen opposes the undead and gives them some nice powers to fight them... which is nice since Pelor and the actually good gods don't seem to be helping them anytime soon. They literally live in a world of back and grays and the Raven Queen is one of the lighter shades of gray in the area.

One a shadar-kai finds their way into the material plane... what do they find? Birds chirping? Bright colors and pretty flowers? Meat that doesn't turn into zombie right after you butcher the animal? Food that actually tastes good?!

I think that once a Shadar-kai steps out of the shadowfell into the material plane then they would be shocked at just how many things aren't trying to kill them. The fact that the corpses of your enemies don't rise up as ghouls to feast on your tender face-meat when your back is turned would be a pleasant surprise. The fact that with the right magic you can make your buddies corpse rise up as you again-living buddy who can totally help you again would be just peachy.


Shadar-kai (writing in Journal): Dear Journal, I have just discovered the fourth state of being. Everyone knows of the first three sates: not-dead, dead, and undead. However I have discovered that with the proper healing ritual I can channel positive energies to animate a dead person to make them move and think and act as if they were not-dead. I am reluctant to truly admit that they are not-dead... and I know for certain that my friend is neither dead or undead. Thus, I propose to label this new state "raised-dead" to differentiate from the more well known not-dead state. (I may need to work on the name before submitting it to the wizard community... maybe something shot like 'redead' or 'unliving' or something. Either way, I smell a Nobel Peace Prize in necromancy in my future!)