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Fortuna
2009-04-08, 02:46 AM
Can anyone think of a good way to make these? Basically dirty nukes, but they inundate the surrounding area with Positive or Negative energy instead.

Dhavaer
2009-04-08, 02:47 AM
Chunks of matter from the positive/negative energy planes?

monty
2009-04-08, 02:49 AM
Planar bubble? (from Spell Compendium) Maybe combined with a hallow/unhallow effect.

VelvetThunder
2009-04-08, 05:16 AM
Well In Heroes of Battle under the section on artilary. They've got shells that Deal negative energy damage in an area and Raise all the fallen as undead. That's about as close as I know of.

jcsw
2009-04-08, 05:55 AM
Planar bubble?

Hmmmm....

Dirty Positive Bomb

Ingredients:
Energy Transformation Field, Spell Compendium
- 10,000gp of diamonds (material components)
Vivacious Creature Summons, Planar Handbook
Halaster's Fetch IV, Waterdeep
One 7th level spell of any kind

Apparatus:
13th Level Wizard

Directions:
1. Cast Energy Transformation Field, attaching Halaster's Fetch IV (1d4+1 Vivacious Owls) to it. Cast the generic 7th level spell into the field to start it going.
2. The Owls' orders are to shoot each other with their beam attack, on average, 3.5 owls are summoned per casting, each firing an average of 4 beams per cast, resulting in an average 14 beams fired per cast. Thus, on average the field produces 2x the number of casts per original casting. Thus the field will always have sufficient levels of spells to continue summoning once every 13 rounds.
3. Once the duration of the spell is over, the owls will become free willed, flying all over the place. Since owls are solitary creatures, they will spread around pretty well. The owls have a positive energy aura which heals creatures in the area for 1hp per round, staying for too long in the area will cause creatures to explode, as per positive energy plane. The combo has a potentially unlimited range.

Serves four.

bosssmiley
2009-04-08, 02:45 PM
Can anyone think of a good way to make these? Basically dirty nukes, but they inundate the surrounding area with Positive or Negative energy instead.


Shadows (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/shadow.htm). Self-mobile, self-replicating Negative Energy weapons.

As for inundating an area with fatal Pos/Neg energy, I imagine forcing a planar breach (see "Planar Handbook") would be your best bet.

Jastermereel
2009-04-10, 01:28 PM
Dirty Positive Bomb
I really like this idea and might have to introduce it to my party's wizard, but might I ask a few questions?

Wouldn't the two 7th level spells require a 14th level wizard, not a 13th?

How do you substitute the Vivacious Owls into the Summon Monster chart?

Is it possible to set it up so that you can walk away and still have the Vivacious Owls know to fire at each other? After the first summoning you don't want to hang around too long, but only that first batch will know to fire the Positive Energy Rays that power the thing?

monty
2009-04-10, 01:38 PM
Wouldn't the two 7th level spells require a 14th level wizard, not a 13th?

Bonus spells from a high ability score and/or specialization and/or possibly other things that grant bonus spells.

AmberVael
2009-04-10, 01:48 PM
I really like this idea and might have to introduce it to my party's wizard, but might I ask a few questions?

Wouldn't the two 7th level spells require a 14th level wizard, not a 13th?

How do you substitute the Vivacious Owls into the Summon Monster chart?

Is it possible to set it up so that you can walk away and still have the Vivacious Owls know to fire at each other? After the first summoning you don't want to hang around too long, but only that first batch will know to fire the Positive Energy Rays that power the thing?


1) No. A 13th level wizard can easily obtain and cast 2 7th level spells.
First off, a wizard needs to be able to cast 7th level spells. At 13th level, he is capable of casting that level of spells, so it works in that respect.
Second, a wizard needs to KNOW at least two level 7 spells. At 13th level (and every other level, it might be added) he adds two spells of up to his highest level into his spellbook, so he can know both of the spells.
Third, a wizard needs to have at least two level 7 spell slots, which is where the minor difficulty comes in (as a level 13 wizard has only one normal spell slot). There are two very simple ways to bypass this problem:

a) increase the wizard's intelligence to 24 to gain a bonus spell slot. Assuming a gray elf, you can easily start at Intelligence 18. You've been around long enough to get three ability increases, so you could easily turn it to 20 with two of those. From there, buy a headband of intellect +4. Tada, spell slot gained.

b) Be a specialist wizard in one of the spell's schools. Pretty simple, that.

2) You're not using summon monster, you're using Halaster's Fetch IV. (And you can use a variant from the planar handbook to summon Vivacious creatures, as noted).

3) It's possible that you could use a familiar to continue to give orders, but otherwise, I'm not sure about how to get around that need...

Calinero
2009-04-10, 02:50 PM
I can definitely think of a few nifty uses for an idea like this...no clue how to make it, though, 4e mechanics aren't my strong suit.

Jastermereel
2009-04-10, 02:52 PM
The first was an error completely on my part as I had glanced at the wrong page, being more accustomed to less magical classes.

I'd been unaware of the variant planar summoning options.

As to the third, isn't there some sort of magical talking mouth? Could it be used or would the orders need to come directly from you? I would think that a familiar, whether or not it could issue the orders, would be at least as prone to exploding from magical health.

On a limited scale, an invisible vivacious owl would seem to be an extraordinary assassination weapon.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-04-10, 03:15 PM
As to the third, isn't there some sort of magical talking mouth? Could it be used or would the orders need to come directly from you? I would think that a familiar, whether or not it could issue the orders, would be at least as prone to exploding from magical health.There's a way to get Undead Familiars in one of the undead books(LM, IIRC).

Jastermereel
2009-04-10, 07:59 PM
There's a way to get Undead Familiars in one of the undead books(LM, IIRC).

Wouldn't an undead familiar react even more poorly to the vivacious owls?

monty
2009-04-10, 08:16 PM
Wouldn't an undead familiar react even more poorly to the vivacious owls?

By RAW, a positive energy environment doesn't hurt undead - it only causes fast healing, and then temporary HP, both of which affect undead normally. And since undead are immune to non-object-affecting Fort saves...

Mewtarthio
2009-04-11, 01:34 AM
I say it's easier to just handwave it. A nation in question drops the bomb, and everything within a radius of several miles suddenly becomes major positive/negative dominant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/planes.htm#positiveDominant).