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Os1ris09
2009-04-09, 03:46 AM
Hey guys its me again. I am playing a gestalt fighter//ninja at level 5 (each both level 5). Basically he is like altyer from Assassin's Creed. he has a hidden blade, shurikens (can't get throwing knives), and a longsword. His feats are as follows.

Human Fighter 5 // Ninja 5
1st: Martial Stalker
3rd: Darkstalker
BF: Weapon focus [Longsword] (Flaw -2 CHA)
BFF: Weapon Focus [Shuriken]
BFF: Weapon Specialization [Longsword]

At 6 lvl I was thinking about this:
6th: Greater Weapon Focus [Longsword]
BFF: Weapon Focus [Hidden Blade]

Ya he is spread out but my friends are tired of me trying to cheese characters.

So any help and advice would be appreciated GITP. Thanks again for the help :smallbiggrin:

Kaiyanwang
2009-04-09, 03:56 AM
Some question before..

- Are you interested in Poison (as a Ninja, I guess)?

- Do you know [ambush] feats?

Anyway, I wouldn't go W Specialization and such. I would use fighter to maximize TWF, take the enemy by surprise, and kill him.

Maybe you could raise your initiative score at max (through items and feats).

In Drow of the Underdark there is an ACF for fighter - you lose Shields and Medium - heavy armor prof and add dex modifier as bonus damage against flat footed enemies. This could help you to drop the enemy faster.

Through the flick of the wirst feat and a similar skill trick, and a proper use of ambush feats, you coul have several rounds of at least an attack with sudden strike (EVEN IF as a ninja your main job is not remain in mele but dispatch your enemy quickly).

Os1ris09
2009-04-09, 04:09 AM
Yes I want poison.

No I do not know any ambush feats.

I was wondering if the GITP could help me find good idea's. first time I played a non-cheese character. AND a ninja on top of that.

And I cannot change the feats from 5th level and before. So how would this look

6th: improved initiative
BFF: Two-Weapon fighting

8th: Improved TWF [Ambush Feat]
9th: [Ambush Feat]
10: [Flick of the wrist] or [Ambush Feat]
12: Empty
BFF: empty

Kaiyanwang
2009-04-09, 04:54 AM
Ambush feats appeared in Complete Scoundrel (and in CA and CW ante litteram), as well in dragon magazine.

The base mechanic is: the sneak attack (or sudden strike) deals some d6 less, but you add an effect on the enemy

Coming in my mind:

Deep poisoning: you can deal 1-5 d6 less of sudden strike, to raise a poison DC of the number of d6 you lessened the sudden strike (Dragon magazine 322)

Disemboweling strike: deals d4 consitution damage to an enemy, does not stack with itself (but stack with a poison). (complete scoundrel)

Lacerate. . Laundry list of prerequisite, (power attack, combat expertise and ANOTHER ambush feat I don't remember what). Allows to make an enemy limb useless. Strong, almost broken. (Dragon magazine don't remember)

Watch out, combat expertise needs int 13, and you are enough MAD. Maybe at high levels, after a tome pimping int :smallcool:

Staggering Strike: evergreen. The target is staggered (CAdv IIRC)

Harmstring: target movement is lowered. (C war)

For the poison side, Complete Scoundrel has a feat to raise poison CD YOU CRAFT of 1, and to increase stats damage. As discussed recently, crafting your own poison can be cool or useless time wise, it depends from the campaign.

Kobold-Bard
2009-04-09, 07:05 AM
1. Use the ability that turns you invisible as a free action.
2. Throw three shurikens as a full attack.
3. Use Sudden Strike on them all because you're invisible.
4. Deal 3d2+9d6 damage
4. ???
5. PROFIT!!!

Kaiyanwang
2009-04-09, 07:10 AM
1. Use the ability that turns you invisible as a free action.
2. Throw three shurikens as a full attack.
3. Use Sudden Strike on them all because you're invisible.
4. Deal 3d2+9d6 damage
4. ???
5. PROFIT!!!

At 20, with quickdraw and GTW, could be even 7 shuriken. Anyway, remember that at high levels, a lot of things will be able to see invisibility :smalltongue:

About poison, I forgot before: remember that exist "poisons" affecting undead end evil outsiders. See Exalted Deeds and Libris Mortis.

RebelRogue
2009-04-09, 07:44 AM
At 20, with quickdraw and GTW, could be even 7 shuriken.
It's a free action to draw ammunition, so no Quick Draw needed.

Kaiyanwang
2009-04-09, 07:49 AM
It's a free action to draw ammunition, so no Quck Draw needed.

:smalleek:

:smallredface:

/seppuku

Trueeeee! I generally switch and throw strange weapons, didn't remember.

Os1ris09
2009-04-09, 12:21 PM
Okay well I looked at the ambush feats and some are good. But i don't think I like the poison one's. Also any suggestions on gear. I already am committed to shurikens and a Longsword so any advice on other gear plus enchantments for those weapons?

Keld Denar
2009-04-09, 01:08 PM
Honestly, I think most of the [Ambush] feats in Complete Scoundrel are crappy. Really, Staggering Strike is better than all of them, and doesn't require you to sacrifice any dice. I mean, the Con damage one doesn't stackwith itself, which is dumb, since all damage should stack. The Confusion one is dumb, since while confused, a creature is ALWAYS COMPELLED TO ATTACK THE LAST CREATURE THAT ATTACKED IT! Which means you pop out of invisibilty and brain the guy, except instead of standing around thinking "WTF?" he turns and whacks you upside the head. The rest of the effects don't last nearly long enough or are too minor to be worth losing dice, especially if you get multiple attacks in a round.

Also, consider multiclassing into Assassin. The death attack is terribad, but the spellcasting is kinda nice.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-04-09, 11:02 PM
Play a Rogue? Really, that or Swordsage is the best way of creating a Ninja in D&D.

That said, if you are comitted to using the actual Ninja class, I recommend dumping the Weapon Focus/Specialization feats. Almost anything is better than +5% chance to hit, and you really should never need 2 aditional damage on top of Sudden Strike.

Chronos
2009-04-09, 11:17 PM
Also, consider multiclassing into Assassin. The death attack is terribad, but the spellcasting is kinda nice.I found a nifty combo the other day. There's an assassin spell in the Spell Compendium called "Cursed Blade", which makes it so the wounds dealt with that weapon can't be cured, by magic or mundane means, until the victim receives a Remove Curse or similar. Combine that with Arterial Strike, and unless your target can get a Remove Curse in the next few minutes, he's going to die.

arguskos
2009-04-09, 11:32 PM
I found a nifty combo the other day. There's an assassin spell in the Spell Compendium called "Cursed Blade", which makes it so the wounds dealt with that weapon can't be cured, by magic or mundane means, until the victim receives a Remove Curse or similar. Combine that with Arterial Strike, and unless your target can get a Remove Curse in the next few minutes, he's going to die.
What's Arterial Strike do (and where is it :smallwink:)?

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-04-09, 11:42 PM
Lose 1d6 SA, the wound delt deals one damage a round ontil fixed with a Healing spell or DC 15 Heal check. Bleeding damage from multiple attacks stacks. Requires BAB 4, C.War.

Now all we need is a way to block Remove Curse(though the False Theurgy skill trick from CS should at least make it harder for the victim to figure out WTF is going on and that he needs a Remove Curse).

Chronos
2009-04-10, 12:45 AM
Now all we need is a way to block Remove Curse(though the False Theurgy skill trick from CS should at least make it harder for the victim to figure out WTF is going on and that he needs a Remove Curse).You only need the skill trick if you're foolish enough to cast the spell right in front of your target where he can see you. Better is to cast it while you're still lurking in the shadows before he knows you're there, and then jump out and attack. If we're going to be tossing in skill tricks, though, Mosquito's Bite might give you an extra round before your target realizes you're even there, which is one more round for you to make your getaway (it's not entirely clear how Mosquito's Bite interacts with attacks from hiding).

Os1ris09
2009-04-10, 02:29 AM
Play a Rogue? Really, that or Swordsage is the best way of creating a Ninja in D&D.

That said, if you are comitted to using the actual Ninja class, I recommend dumping the Weapon Focus/Specialization feats. Almost anything is better than +5% chance to hit, and you really should never need 2 aditional damage on top of Sudden Strike.

I have already stated I cannot change my feats from 5th level and before nor can I change what I already have taken for class's. I will probably multiclass into assassin since I am NE and have a knack for killing in the shadows.

BUT any advice on equipment/feats?

Nate the Snake
2009-04-10, 04:45 PM
It's unfortunate that you can't change your feats, because Martial Stalker doesn't work in gestalt. Your ninja levels are already fighter levels and vice versa, so you get no benefit from the feat that you don't get anyway from gestalt. It's only worth taking if you stack both sides of the gestalt, which is cheesy.

Os1ris09
2009-04-11, 08:22 PM
So you're saying a Ninja 5/ Scout 5// Fighter 5/Ranger 5 with both the Swift Hunter and Martial Stalker feats do not get the benefits of those feats. Because the way I see it you're choosing your levels each time you gain a level. just like you can chose one side to be one complete class while the other can be about fifty other class's. So I don't understand why those feats benefits wouldn't work in gestalt.

Either way my DM ruled I could do that so I guess I am just looking for the actual reason as to why that doesn't work.

Mushroom Ninja
2009-04-11, 08:28 PM
I found a nifty combo the other day. There's an assassin spell in the Spell Compendium called "Cursed Blade", which makes it so the wounds dealt with that weapon can't be cured, by magic or mundane means, until the victim receives a Remove Curse or similar. Combine that with Arterial Strike, and unless your target can get a Remove Curse in the next few minutes, he's going to die.

Does the damage from Arterial strike count as Damage from the weapon?

woodenbandman
2009-04-11, 08:37 PM
If you're interested in this type of character I'd suggest that you make him a Psychic Warrior3/Monk2//Ninja5, but you could do better. On the left side of the gestalt, take Tashalatora, which combines your flurry of blows and your manifesting. So now what you have is flurry of shuriken, and you can TWF with them as well for (with quick draw at, say, 20th level) 3(BAB) + 3(TWF) +2(Flurry) = 8 shuriken, and 4 of those attacks are at your highest attack bonus. Also you have a lot of manifesting which has Wisdom synergy. Just try hard not to run out of Ki.

Chronos
2009-04-12, 01:35 AM
So you're saying a Ninja 5/ Scout 5// Fighter 5/Ranger 5 with both the Swift Hunter and Martial Stalker feats do not get the benefits of those feats. Because the way I see it you're choosing your levels each time you gain a level. just like you can chose one side to be one complete class while the other can be about fifty other class's. So I don't understand why those feats benefits wouldn't work in gestalt.If you gain the same class feature from both sides of a gestalt, you only gain it at the faster rate. So for instance, a Scout//Ranger with Swift Hunter has Skirmish as a class feature of both Scout and Ranger, at the same rate, so only gets it once (and the same for Favored Enemy). In your example, though, you could shuffle the levels around to Ninja 5 / Scout 5 // Ranger 5 / Fighter 5, in which case you would benefit from both feats, since you're not taking your skirmish classes at the same time.

Os1ris09
2009-04-12, 02:15 AM
so basically a progression of Ranger 1// Scout 1 with swift hunter only gains the benefit of a normal scout/ranger build but if you put your build as such:

Scout 1//Fighter 1
Scout 1 /Ninja 1// Fighter 1/ Ranger 1 (ninja 1//ranger 1 at lvl 2)

you would gain the benefits of the feats because in the first example you are gaining both skirmish and a favored enemy at the same rate but in example 2 you are not gaining the abilities at the same rate so the feats would work?