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Thane of Fife
2009-04-09, 07:13 AM
Since, as far as I can tell, there is not yet a thread for this....

Apparently, Arcane Power is available in... Japan, maybe? Regardless, somebody is answering questions about it (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=447203) at rpg.net. The actual discussion starts on Page 6, I believe; before that is just questions.

So, yeah. Thought that there would be people here who would be interested.

Hzurr
2009-04-09, 11:18 AM
... How does Japan manage to get everything significantly before the release date? This happened for the PHB2 as well.

Oracle_Hunter
2009-04-09, 01:06 PM
... How does Japan manage to get everything significantly before the release date? This happened for the PHB2 as well.

It's because the Japanese are more advanced than us Westerners. I mean, they have friggin' robots everywhere (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CcA1kNHm7w) :smalltongue:

Highlights:
- misreading "Beast Growth" (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=447203&page=6) as "Breast Growth" :smallbiggrin:
- Illusionists (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=447203&page=7) & Tome (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=447203&page=6) Wizards; Tomes of Readiness sound pretty sweet
- Summoning Rules: (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=447203&page=7) sound neat & balanced!
- Familiars (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=447203&page=8): they have quirks?

Izmir Stinger
2009-04-10, 01:11 AM
... How does Japan manage to get everything significantly before the release date? This happened for the PHB2 as well.

WotC threatens to remove retailers from the product distribution list if they ignore release dates. Some Japanese retailers authorized to sell D&D materials (and presumably Magic cards as well) are calling WotC's bluff. Perhaps they feel that WotC's lack of corporate presence in Japan makes it unlikely they have the resources to investigate at what stores the leaks are occurring. Japan is a fairly lucrative market for them, so WotC may be erring on the side of "lets not piss them off."

Asbestos
2009-04-10, 01:20 AM
- Familiars (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=447203&page=8): they have quirks?

Awesome! Who doesn't want a 'Crafter Homunculus' as a familiar, obsessively making miniature statues of the monsters you defeat in battle? You could tell how accomplished a character is by how many little monster figurines he has on his bookcase.

Sadly in the real world the reverse is sorta true... :smallsigh:


Also, yes, Japan is the future, that's why they get all these things before us.

Oh, if you're wondering more about the familiars, more is posted on this page (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=447203&page=13). The quirks are apparently just fluffy suggestions. Like how the cat familiar has vestigial bat wings and the bound demon rolls everywhere cause its a lazy fat-wad. I guarantee they used the 'Gnaw Demon (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mi_atgprev_1d.jpg)' mini as their inspiration for that one.

Oracle_Hunter
2009-04-10, 01:58 AM
Enlarge Spell (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=447203&page=17) does have a caveat about non-damaging spells.

Looks like WotC is actually doing its homework again :smallbiggrin:

Another Highlight
-Familiar Feats (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=447203&page=18)

Saph
2009-04-10, 06:25 AM
Enlarge Spell (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=447203&page=17) does have a caveat about non-damaging spells.

Looks like WotC is actually doing its homework again :smallbiggrin:

Eh, I doubt it makes much difference. It's still a very, very good feat, close to a must-have for most Wizards.

A low-heroic Wizard's Scorching Burst normally does maybe 9 damage over 9 squares. Enlarge Spell makes that 7 damage over 25 squares. That's a massive boost in effectiveness, especially considering one of the main things you use it for is killing minions in which case the damage roll doesn't matter anyway. It's slightly less effective for blasts effects like Thunderwave due to the way blasts/bursts work, but it's still a major power boost.

Enlarge Spell seems the only gem so far, though - at first glance most of the others look kinda average compared to the best of the PHB I and II feats.

- Saph

Asbestos
2009-04-10, 12:37 PM
It also increases Thunderwave from a 9 square blast to a 16 square blast, not too shabby.

Oracle_Hunter
2009-04-10, 01:05 PM
Eh, I doubt it makes much difference. It's still a very, very good feat, close to a must-have for most Wizards.

A low-heroic Wizard's Scorching Burst normally does maybe 9 damage over 9 squares. Enlarge Spell makes that 7 damage over 25 squares. That's a massive boost in effectiveness, especially considering one of the main things you use it for is killing minions in which case the damage roll doesn't matter anyway. It's slightly less effective for blasts effects like Thunderwave due to the way blasts/bursts work, but it's still a major power boost.

Enlarge Spell seems the only gem so far, though - at first glance most of the others look kinda average compared to the best of the PHB I and II feats.

Oh, it's good, but aside from minion-killing it does have some distinct disadvantages:

(1) It is -2 damage per die. So for more powerful effects, the loss of damage remains noticeable.

(2) Scorching Burst does 1d6+INT damage; an INT 18 Wizard would go from doing 1d6+4 (5-10) over Burst 1 to 1d6+2 (3-8) over Burst 2. Considering that Scorching Burst is already a relatively low-damage spell, I doubt it will be used against non-minion targets.

(3) Few Wizard spells have IFF - you target allies and enemies alike. Unless you usually fight in very large spaces, Enlarged Blasts may not be safe to use very often.

Personally, I think the Familiar Feats are pretty awesome too.

Calinero
2009-04-10, 02:52 PM
It makes sense to release things earlier in Japan...when they're, ya know, made there. Last time I checked, I'm pretty sure D&D is not...

Kurald Galain
2009-04-10, 06:46 PM
Eh, I doubt it makes much difference. It's still a very, very good feat, close to a must-have for most Wizards.
It is. Penalties to damage are generally irrelevant, because most of the good wizard spells aren't about damage but about debuffs (and in the few occasions where it is about damage, you can simply opt to not use enlarge spell).

For instance, the best level-1 encounter spell for a wizard is probably Grasping Shadows. Why? Not because of the damage, but because of the slow and the zone. With -2 damage and 16 extra squares of effect, it becomes twice the awesome. The best level-3 wizard spell is probably Color Spray. Same thing.

So yeah, any wizard worth his salt is going to take this feat.

Saph
2009-04-10, 09:52 PM
(2) Scorching Burst does 1d6+INT damage; an INT 18 Wizard would go from doing 1d6+4 (5-10) over Burst 1 to 1d6+2 (3-8) over Burst 2. Considering that Scorching Burst is already a relatively low-damage spell, I doubt it will be used against non-minion targets.

This isn't really accurate. Scorching Burst is probably the best damaging at-will Wizards have, because it's easy to hit multiple targets with it. Try making a list of the damage output of the other wizard at-wills and you'll see what I mean!

Doing -25% damage in exchange for hitting 3 times as many squares is a very good trade. It increases your target area and gives you more attack options, both things that are very difficult to get in 4e.


Personally, I think the Familiar Feats are pretty awesome too.

Which ones? I haven't noticed any standouts so far.

- Saph

Oracle_Hunter
2009-04-10, 09:59 PM
Which ones? I haven't noticed any standouts so far.

Well, the Book Imp's (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=447203&page=13) constant power is pretty awesome. +2 to Arcana/History checks, speak Infernal, and Resist Fire 5 is not bad. All of the other Familiars look pretty awesome.

I guess I should have clarified that when I said "familiar feats" I meant "familiars, which you can get with a feat." Though Shielding Familiar isn't bad either.

As for damage output - I was thinking single target, rather than as a group, largely because once my monsters start bunching up, they're usually mixed in with the party too much for burst spells. Still, your point is well taken.

Rockphed
2009-04-10, 10:07 PM
On the other hand, if you are already going to hit most of the party and can now hit twice as many enemies, the decrease in damage is probably worth it.

Oracle_Hunter
2009-04-10, 10:08 PM
On the other hand, if you are already going to hit most of the party and can now hit twice as many enemies, the decrease in damage is probably worth it.

That sort of thinking got the past Wizard chained to a rock and dumped into the harbor.

True story :smallbiggrin:

Saph
2009-04-10, 10:11 PM
On the other hand, if you are already going to hit most of the party and can now hit twice as many enemies, the decrease in damage is probably worth it.

Just make sure someone in the party is a Tiefling, Dragon Sorcerer, or other class with fire resistance. An Enlarged Scorching Burst will barely scratch them. :)

- Saph

Thane of Fife
2009-04-10, 10:13 PM
That sort of thinking got the past Wizard chained to a rock and dumped into the harbor.

True story :smallbiggrin:

If he still had party members to dump him into the harbor, he wasn't doing enough collateral damage!

Out of curiosity, from what you know so far, is there anything stopping Enlarge Spell from being used on spells which normally wouldn't have bursts in order to give them one (or does it not work that way)?

Oracle_Hunter
2009-04-10, 10:23 PM
Out of curiosity, from what you know so far, is there anything stopping Enlarge Spell from being used on spells which normally wouldn't have bursts in order to give them one (or does it not work that way)?

I'm pretty sure something without a Blast/Burst can't have it's Blast/Burst increased. It'd be like lengthening the legs on a fish :smalltongue:

TheEmerged
2009-04-10, 10:26 PM
Has anyone seen any indication about how the Eladrin feat to use their fey step to move a party member out of a burst/blast works yet? That (and Enlarge Spell) are the two the party wizard is most likely to take.

RTGoodman
2009-04-10, 10:46 PM
Has anyone seen any indication about how the Eladrin feat to use their fey step to move a party member out of a burst/blast works yet? That (and Enlarge Spell) are the two the party wizard is most likely to take.

I haven't seen it, but I'd wager it's just that you expend your Fey Step encounter power (no action) to allow one ally within the area of an arcane spell you cast to teleport X squares (I don't remember how many Fey Step is).

Arbitrarity
2009-04-10, 10:52 PM
I'm pretty sure something without a Blast/Burst can't have it's Blast/Burst increased. It'd be like lengthening the legs on a fish :smalltongue:

Ooh, can I enlarge Cloud of Daggers? That would be AWESOME for minions. Also, imagine shoving someone through 3 squares of that! (Actually, I'm not sure about that, I'm not reading the effect immediately, it's probably "spell area" or somesuch.

Inyssius Tor
2009-04-10, 11:01 PM
Ooh, can I enlarge Cloud of Daggers? That would be AWESOME for minions. Also, imagine shoving someone through 3 squares of that! (Actually, I'm not sure about that, I'm not reading the effect immediately, it's probably "spell area" or somesuch.

It's "Area 1 square within 10 squares", which isn't a burst or blast and as such may not enter the super crazy win zone. :smallamused:

Oracle_Hunter
2009-04-10, 11:15 PM
It's "Area 1 square within 10 squares", which isn't a burst or blast and as such may not enter the super crazy win zone. :smallamused:

Though Stormcage can :smalleek:

Saph
2009-04-10, 11:26 PM
Though Stormcage can :smalleek:

Oh, you can do that already without Enlarge Spell. Just use Resounding Thunder.

Enlarge Spell is a power bump because it lets you do the same with all bursts and blasts, not just Thunder ones, and at level 1 instead of level 11.

- Saph

Arbitrarity
2009-04-10, 11:27 PM
It's "Area 1 square within 10 squares", which isn't a burst or blast and as such may not enter the super crazy win zone. :smallamused:

Damn. I was hoping Area would be close enough. :smallfrown:
Now I have more retraining to do. :smallsigh:

Oracle_Hunter
2009-04-10, 11:27 PM
Oh, you can do that already without Enlarge Spell. Just use Resounding Thunder.

Enlarge Spell is a power bump because it lets you do the same with all bursts and blasts, not just Thunder ones, and at level 1 instead of level 11.

- Saph

Oh yes, but what if you combine them :smallamused:

TheOOB
2009-04-10, 11:54 PM
stormcage explicitly creates a wall in "the 16 outer squares of the burst". I think WotC will need to explain how that one works with enlarge spell.

Oracle_Hunter
2009-04-11, 12:14 AM
stormcage explicitly creates a wall in "the 16 outer squares of the burst". I think WotC will need to explain how that one works with enlarge spell.

It has a burst effect, so it should be increased - it works with Resounding Thunder, after all :smallbiggrin:

Kurald Galain
2009-04-11, 04:42 AM
Out of curiosity, from what you know so far, is there anything stopping Enlarge Spell from being used on spells which normally wouldn't have bursts in order to give them one (or does it not work that way)?
It explicitly only works on blasts or bursts, and only on spells that do damage dice to begin with. The damage is -2 per die rolled, not -2 total.


Has anyone seen any indication about how the Eladrin feat to use their fey step to move a party member out of a burst/blast works yet?
Yes. It costs you your fey step for the encounter (which is bad!) and as a free action you get to teleport one ally in the area of your spell 3 squares.


Oh, you can do that already without Enlarge Spell. Just use Resounding Thunder.
Yes, but enlarge spell stacks with resounding thunder, and both also stack with the Staff of the Warmage and Staff of Expansion item dailies (which also stack with one another, should you really want to).

Furthermore, you can use the Arcane Admixture paragon feat to turn any one spell you know into a thunder spell. And technically it seems that if you have an implement with the thunder keyword (e.g. a master wand of thunderwave) then every spell you cast through that also gains the thunder keyword. So yeah, making spells cover the entire battlefield is rapidly becoming the wizard's shtick.

Saph
2009-04-11, 05:10 AM
Furthermore, you can use the Arcane Admixture paragon feat to turn any one spell you know into a thunder spell. And technically it seems that if you have an implement with the thunder keyword (e.g. a master wand of thunderwave) then every spell you cast through that also gains the thunder keyword. So yeah, making spells cover the entire battlefield is rapidly becoming the wizard's shtick.

Ah, the Arcane Admixture trick is a nice one.

I'm not sure about the implement keyword thing. It might work and might not. Actually, I have the feeling that 90% of DMs won't know whether it works or not, either.

Implements/weapons and exactly how they interact with powers and feats are turning out to be one of the major headaches of 4e. I still can't figure out exactly when you add damage bonuses to powers.

- Saph

Kurald Galain
2009-04-11, 05:20 AM
Implements/weapons and exactly how they interact with powers and feats are turning out to be one of the major headaches of 4e. I still can't figure out exactly when you add damage bonuses to powers.

Neither can anybody else, but it is a safe bet that any explanation that makes characters stronger (and this one really isn't as far-fetched as most of those) will have a large group of forum people clamoring that Yes It Is RAW.

It keeps amazing me though how little WOTC does to clear this up. It would take the designers all of fifteen minutes to type out what exactly they meant and place it somewhere legible. It's almost like they want thousands of people to keep debating the same issues over and over again... :smallbiggrin:

Oracle_Hunter
2009-04-11, 10:59 AM
Implements/weapons and exactly how they interact with powers and feats are turning out to be one of the major headaches of 4e. I still can't figure out exactly when you add damage bonuses to powers.


:confused:

Maybe I'm missing something, but isn't it:
- if the power has the "Weapon" keyword, add Weapon Damage Bonus
- if the power has the "Implement" keyword, add the Implement Damage Bonus

...and only use the weapon/implement you are casting through (the one you use the to-hit bonus from).

I'm pretty sure the Keyword Trick doesn't work though:

15. When do a Magic Item's keywords apply?
If you use a magic item's power in conjunction with a power granted to you by your race or class, that item's keywords are added to the regular keywords of the power you are using. For example, if you are have a Flaming Weapon, and you use an at-will power to attack an enemy along with the at-will power of the Flaming Weapon, your attack will have the Fire keyword in addition to the normal keywords of your attack. You have to be using the powers of the weapon for those keywords to be added; simply using the magic item does not necessarily mean every keyword attached to a power of that item will be added.

Emphasis mine. So, with the Wand of Thunderwave, when you trigger the Daily Power, the attack has the Thunder keyword; if you could trigger that power along with another class power, both would have the Thunder keyword.

Kurald Galain
2009-04-11, 11:12 AM
...and only use the weapon/implement you are casting through (the one you use the to-hit bonus from).
Yes, but FAQ confirms you also add properties, at least, of whatever you're holding in your off-hand (Q19: a warlock can gain the properties from two rods but he still can only use one to make an attack).



I'm pretty sure the Keyword Trick doesn't work though:
I'm glad to hear that. This is surely a trick that I wouldn't use as a player, and would veto as a DM. Nevertheless, I should point out that PHB page 226 states, "When you use a magic item as part of a racial power or a class power, the keywords of the items power and the other power all apply."

It still gets confusing from there, though. The PHB gives you options to add fire, frost or lightning keyword to all weapon attacks. The AV adds a few to that (psychic, IIRC), and the AV2 may fill in the blanks. Given the plethora of options we have now that apparently let you use weapons as implements, this seems to imply that you can tack Lasting Frost + Wintertouched, Lightning Arc, or Psychic Lock onto every spell you know.

Oracle_Hunter
2009-04-11, 11:32 AM
Yes, but FAQ confirms you also add properties, at least, of whatever you're holding in your off-hand (Q19: a warlock can gain the properties from two rods but he still can only use one to make an attack).

Yes, but Properties are not Keywords.

Property: Some magic items have a special property that is constantly active (or active under certain conditions). A property doesnít normally require any action to use, although some properties allow you to turn them off (or on again).

So the Flaming Sword's power of "All damage dealt by this weapon is fire damage" is a Property, while the "Fire" in "At Will - Fire" is a Keyword.


I'm glad to hear that. This is surely a trick that I wouldn't use as a player, and would veto as a DM. Nevertheless, I should point out that PHB page 226 states, "When you use a magic item as part of a racial power or a class power, the keywords of the items power and the other power all apply."

The full quote is helpful here:

Like racial powers and class powers, magic item powers often have keywords that indicate their damage or effect types. When you use a magic item as part of a racial power or a class power, the keywords of the itemís power and the other power all apply. For instance, if a paladin uses a flaming sword to attack with a power that deals radiant damage, the power deals both fire damage and radiant damage.

Compare that language with the FAQ language - particularly this part:

For example, if you are have a Flaming Weapon, and you use an at-will power to attack an enemy along with the at-will power of the Flaming Weapon, your attack will have the Fire keyword in addition to the normal keywords of your attack.

The FAQ indicates that the Flaming Sword example from the PHB was unclear; the Paladin's Radiant power only gains the Fire keyword when using the Flaming Sword's At-Will, not at all times.

I will grant you the (Keyword) Weapon proliferation problem, though. In theory there is no reason to limit the (Keyword) Weapons to only a few of the Keywords available, but when combined with the Keyword Feats it can get silly and/or OP.

For instance, a Fighter with a Thunder Sword could use Resounding Thunder to increase his Burst 1 attacks to Burst 2. Or a Psychic Sword to turn his Marks into -2/-4 to hit attacks with Psychic Lock. And the Solid Sound abuse! :smalleek:

Asbestos
2009-04-11, 11:32 AM
I'm glad to hear that. This is surely a trick that I wouldn't use as a player, and would veto as a DM. Nevertheless, I should point out that PHB page 226 states, "When you use a magic item as part of a racial power or a class power, the keywords of the items power and the other power all apply."

It still gets confusing from there, though. The PHB gives you options to add fire, frost or lightning keyword to all weapon attacks. The AV adds a few to that (psychic, IIRC), and the AV2 may fill in the blanks. Given the plethora of options we have now that apparently let you use weapons as implements, this seems to imply that you can tack Lasting Frost + Wintertouched, Lightning Arc, or Psychic Lock onto every spell you know.

The PHB does state that, but in the example that OH bolded, it only seems to work like that when you are using an ability of the item that makes it have that keyword.

Now... does this mean that Thundering weapons only add the 'Thunder' keyword when you use the daily ability and when you crit?

The LF+WT combo works with Frost Weapons when their at-will property is active, same with Mind Iron weapons and Psychic Lock, and Lightning Weapons and Lightning Arc.

Saph
2009-04-11, 07:29 PM
Maybe I'm missing something, but isn't it:
- if the power has the "Weapon" keyword, add Weapon Damage Bonus
- if the power has the "Implement" keyword, add the Implement Damage Bonus

What about if the power attacks multiple times, does it still get the bonus? What about secondary attacks? What about automatic hits? What about if there's no damage roll? What about if the damage is a fixed number? What about ongoing damage?

The PHB doesn't give a clear ruling and CustServ have given contradictory answers, so the WotC boards have been arguing about it for weeks. Maybe they'll put it in the FAQ eventually, but until then different DMs will rule it different ways.

- Saph

Douglas
2009-04-11, 07:40 PM
What about if the power attacks multiple times, does it still get the bonus? What about secondary attacks? What about automatic hits? What about if there's no damage roll? What about if the damage is a fixed number? What about ongoing damage?

The PHB doesn't give a clear ruling and CustServ have given contradictory answers, so the WotC boards have been arguing about it for weeks. Maybe they'll put it in the FAQ eventually, but until then different DMs will rule it different ways.

- Saph
I don't see why there is any debate about this at all. The wording is quite clear and explicit - weapon and implement enhancement bonuses apply to "attack and damage rolls". No further qualifiers. Weapon Focus and the various damage type feats work the same, adding their bonus to "damage rolls" with the given weapon or damage type.

So, to address your specific questions:
Multiple attacks: each damage roll gets the bonus.
Secondary attacks: attack rolls get the bonus, damage gets the bonus if and only if it's a roll.
Automatic hits: if the damage is rolled, yes, otherwise no.
No damage roll: no bonus.
Fixed number damage: no roll, so no bonus.
Ongoing damage: if it's rolled, it gets the bonus, otherwise it doesn't.

Saph
2009-04-11, 08:06 PM
The problem is that when people have been asking, they've gotten varying answers.

As an example, last time I checked the Wizards boards there was an argument going on about the Sorcerer powers. One of the guys writing the Sorcerer guide had checked with CustServ and been told that only powers that made attack rolls got damage bonuses such as from Spell Source (so it doesn't work with Dragonflame Mantle). Other people disagreed.

It becomes big deal with powers like Blood Pulse which do 1d6 damage repeatedly. If you can add your enhancement and item and feat and paragon power bonuses to that each time, the power does massively more damage.

- Saph

Douglas
2009-04-11, 08:30 PM
That sounds like CustServ making up rules out of thin air. There is absolutely no basis whatsoever for such a rule in the actual rule books. How is adding a bonus to "attack and damage rolls" (or just "damage rolls" for some things) ambiguous in any way? Any and every attack roll and damage roll that involves the source of the bonus gets the bonus. I just don't see how any other interpretation is even possible without blatant houseruling or errata. The PHB does, in fact, give a perfectly clear ruling. It sounds like someone in CustServ just didn't bother to look up a reference before answering.

Oracle_Hunter
2009-04-11, 08:35 PM
The problem is that when people have been asking, they've gotten varying answers.

As an example, last time I checked the Wizards boards there was an argument going on about the Sorcerer powers. One of the guys writing the Sorcerer guide had checked with CustServ and been told that only powers that made attack rolls got damage bonuses such as from Spell Source (so it doesn't work with Dragonflame Mantle). Other people disagreed.

It becomes big deal with powers like Blood Pulse which do 1d6 damage repeatedly. If you can add your enhancement and item and feat and paragon power bonuses to that each time, the power does massively more damage.

To be fair, Blood Pulse is a really poorly worded power to start with. Aside from that one power it seems to be pretty straightforward:


Some powers add modifiers to attack rolls or damage rolls. These modifiers apply to any roll of the dice, but not to ongoing damage or other static, nonvariable effects. The paladinís wrath of the gods prayer, for example, adds her Charisma modifier to her and her alliesí damage rolls until the end of the encounter. When her cleric ally invokes flame strike, the damage equals 2d10 + Wisdom modifier + the paladinís Charisma modifier fire damage and ongoing 5 fire damage. The ongoing damage doesnít increase, because itís a static effect.

Emphasis mine. CustServ is notoriously unreliable, freely giving contradictory rulings without any sort of consultation. Douglas is absolutely correct.

By RAW, Blood Pulse would do 1d6+non-stat Mod damage per square which, with a decent forced movement power, can get up to 5(1d6+mod) damage or more. If I ever had a Blood Mage character I would rule that the power does x(d6)+mod damage - like a weapon attack, where x is the number of squares moved on a given action. It still does a lot of damage, but not an obscene amount. As far as RAI goes, it's not too much of a stretch.

Saph
2009-04-11, 08:59 PM
The 'any roll gets the bonuses' does seem the most sensible way to rule it. Hopefully WotC won't contradict that, but I'm not completely sure . . .

- Saph

Oracle_Hunter
2009-04-11, 09:06 PM
The 'any roll gets the bonuses' does seem the most sensible way to rule it. Hopefully WotC won't contradict that, but I'm not completely sure . . .

- Saph

To be honest, at their rate of patching, it looks like they have one guy updating the errata in cuneiform - and he has to get his own reeds and mud :smalltongue:

I mean, they still haven't made a FAQ on Rain of Blows - a 3rd level Fighter Encounter power from PHB I!

Dark Tira
2009-04-11, 10:55 PM
To be honest, at their rate of patching, it looks like they have one guy updating the errata in cuneiform - and he has to get his own reeds and mud :smalltongue:

I mean, they still haven't made a FAQ on Rain of Blows - a 3rd level Fighter Encounter power from PHB I!

Well to be fair, they don't really need to errata Rain of Blows anymore since the rules on indentation in PH2 clarified how it works.

Oracle_Hunter
2009-04-11, 11:06 PM
Well to be fair, they don't really need to errata Rain of Blows anymore since the rules on indentation in PH2 clarified how it works.

So... it really does give 2-4 attacks? As a level 3 Fighter power? Were they high when they decided to do that? :smallconfused:

NPCMook
2009-04-12, 12:44 AM
So... it really does give 2-4 attacks? As a level 3 Fighter power? Were they high when they decided to do that? :smallconfused:

Probably about as high as there were for Needlefang Drakes and Fire Beetles

Oracle_Hunter
2009-04-12, 01:05 AM
Probably about as high as there were for Needlefang Drakes and Fire Beetles

All I can say is that my Eladrin Spearmaiden is going to be very happy with this turn of events :smallamused:

Shadow_Elf
2009-04-12, 10:51 AM
The 'any roll gets the bonuses' does seem the most sensible way to rule it. Hopefully WotC won't contradict that, but I'm not completely sure . . .

- Saph

But, then what does one do about powers with no rolls, but that clearly are intended to gain the Implement's bonus? Such as Grasping Shards, the Invoker at-will that only inflicts WIS-modifier damage, with no roll until level 21? Does the fact that there is a roll at level 21 mean that it applies to both?

Oracle_Hunter
2009-04-12, 12:28 PM
But, then what does one do about powers with no rolls, but that clearly are intended to gain the Implement's bonus? Such as Grasping Shards, the Invoker at-will that only inflicts WIS-modifier damage, with no roll until level 21? Does the fact that there is a roll at level 21 mean that it applies to both?

Simple.

LV 1-20: bonus to hit, no bonus to damage
LV 21+: bonus to hit, bonus to damage