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View Full Version : Enchanter build help please!



DrizztFan24
2009-04-10, 10:46 AM
In my campaign my character has been slapped with a 2-level ball and chain. I can't retrain and it isn't LA so I don't gain any benefit besides the HD and the first level casting granted. So this time around I will make a character that is unlike any others in the campaign, an enchanter. Our group is missing a true arcanist and utility guy and we are lacking in the party face department too.

So what are some of the most fun/powerful gestalt builds for a guy that will gladly manipulate some poor nobleman, or anyone that may be useful? I would like something fun, but the campaign tends to be pretty lethal with a very underpowered group so power to save the other's hides would be appreciated.

P.S. I have read the enchanter's handbook and I might also be able to talk my DM into tweaking a few of the more enchanter based PrC's into more full casting, like the Mindbender.

Thankee much, Playground!

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-04-10, 11:04 AM
Can you give us more specific rules? Though you mentioned Gestalt, so...Wizard 5/PrC 15//HD 2/Factotum 18. Mindbender is perfectly fine as-is, since the first level has the best ability. Snag the feat to turn Telepathy into Mindsight and go to town, then grab another PrC.

Flickerdart
2009-04-10, 11:15 AM
What feat would this be, and where is it?

Chronos
2009-04-10, 11:53 AM
Mindsight, from Lords of Madness. I think it's intended for mind flayers and their ilk, but the only prerequisite is telepathy, so a mindbender qualifies.

DrizztFan24
2009-04-10, 12:19 PM
More specific rules...well no scribing rules are in effect for new spells....no real material component rules either. I have access to nearly every book for 3.5. We deal mostly with humanoids with class levels, but this time we are running the shackled city adventure path. So I don't know if that changes anything later. Auto success and auto fail on skill checks. There's not a whole lot for rules, besides the first two, that have been implemented. Any specific rules that you want information about?

Keld Denar
2009-04-10, 12:38 PM
Mindsight, from Lords of Madness. I think it's intended for mind flayers and their ilk, but the only prerequisite is telepathy, so a mindbender qualifies.

Close. Its ment for Tsochari, not Mind Flayers, although Illithid could derive great benefit from it.

Oh, and if you go rooting around in LoM to find it, look with care. Its not in the general feats section, but rather as a sidebar on Page 126 under Tsochari.

Neato little feat there. As written, completely defeats ALL forms of protection vs detection including Darkstalker, Non-Detection, and Mind Blank. Its better than True Seeing if someone is trying to shank your kidneys! Combine with Glitterdust and your party will never ever have issues with invisible foes!

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-04-10, 01:54 PM
What starting level/GP? Which races are allowed? What are the 2 HD you got hit with? How cheesy? Other than Social+Enchanter, where do you want to take this char?

I stand by Wizard//Factotum, though. It's Int-SAD and great from 1-20. 4 spells in one round at level 8? YES PLZ!

DrizztFan24
2009-04-10, 03:14 PM
What starting level/GP?
Level six and standard WBL


Which races are allowed?
Nothing too extreme, so no monster races, but otherwise all subspecies of PHB races should be allowed.


What are the 2 HD you got hit with?
They are 2 levels of beguiler/duskblade. The party rogue (my teenage sister) is rather greedy and tends to slow things down by being an incredibly wimpy trap finder. So I tried to change my build by retraining to cover her duties and still serve the party...DM didn't want to retrain because he thought I was simply trying different flavors of the day.


How cheesy?
Modestly, nothing like free metamagic but a modest amount of power will be needed, the other players are young so I need to make up for inexperience.


Other than Social+Enchanter, where do you want to take this char?

I want to take him to a nice seafood dinner...and then never call him again! :smalltongue:
</anchorman reference>

I would like to play him as the guy that does what he must to do his job. He is willing to pay nearly any price (almost always at others' detriment) to achieve the upper hand and secure victory. Otherwise I just take the character where his personality would take him RP wise. That answer that question or did I completely miss the meaning?

Myrmex
2009-04-10, 03:23 PM
Is there any reason you couldn't just go with Beguiler//Duskblade? You stay SAD, get a great suite of abilities, and can either be really great at one thing, and decent at another, or pretty good at both. With all your spells, power attack & arcane strike, and arcane channeling, means you can mete out damage vs. the things you can't just charm your way past.

You can still sneak as well as a rogue, charm & delude as well as an enchanter/illusionist, bluff as well as a bard, trap find like a rogue, as well as hitting hard like an ok fighter.

You won't be awesome like a batman, or a powerhouse like a spiked chain warblade, or a skillmonkey juggalomancer or something ridiculous, but you will be better than anything in the PHB at whatever you put your mind to, from melee combat, to skills, to social interaction, to casting some spells. You'll be an ultiamte handyman- able to fill in in a pinch. If you wanted to play a bard role, that would be a pretty straightforward route.

You get haste, slow, glitterdust, and dispel magic, which are the bread and butter of many an arcane caster build. Even against zombies and golems, you can still help your party out.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-04-10, 03:23 PM
Definitely Factotum 6//Wizard 5/Mindbender 1. Either max FoI or drop it completely, snag a mix of Rays and Save-or-X, put everything in Int, and go with a race with an Int-bonus. I'd grab Craven and Split Ray if you aren't doing FoI.

Olo Demonsbane
2009-04-10, 06:51 PM
How about this: Beguiler 5/Ultimate Mage 1//Duskblade 5/Barbarian 1

You use your UM casting to advance your Beguiler casting (more). You will end up as a great enchanter, a decent blaster and a good melee combatant (Whelm+Melee anybody?).

Get the pounce from the barbarian so that you can still charge and channel spells.

Keld Denar
2009-04-10, 06:57 PM
Problem with that is both Duskblade and Beguiler are both spontaneous casters. UM explicitly calls out the requirement of 1 prepared arcane caster and 1 spontaneous arcane caster.

Now...sketchy reading and taking the Arcane Preperation would make this legal, but might also get you hit with the pointy end of a DMG.

Seriously though, Beguiler is like a spontaneous Enchanter, except with slightly different banned spells/schools. Just continue to level up Beguiler on the side its on. Its got all of the nasty Enchantments you could ever dream of, along with a pretty commanding mastery of Illusions and a few other misc spells.

On the other side, maybe 3 levels of Duskblade for Channeling (channeled Whelm 4tw!) and then some Factotum, or just more Duskblade. Its pretty much optimized itself...

Vexxation
2009-04-10, 07:03 PM
Be sure if you take Beguiler as a main class to a) Dip Mindbender (duh) and 2) Use PrCs to delay your last Advanced Learning until you can use Mindrape.

Mindrape: Is there any problem it can't solve?

DrizztFan24
2009-04-10, 10:40 PM
If I recall the Whelm line is un-channelable until overwhelm. I just didn't like stepping on peoples toes. My sister is the rogue and my brother is the "tank" dragon shaman. I would recover both roles rather obtusely. I prefer a role that makes them feel like they are contributing and dishing out the hurt.

EDIT: PHBII states that only touch spells can be channeled. All the whelm spells except overwhelm are close range.

Myrmex
2009-04-11, 11:49 AM
If I recall the Whelm line is un-channelable until overwhelm. I just didn't like stepping on peoples toes. My sister is the rogue and my brother is the "tank" dragon shaman. I would recover both roles rather obtusely. I prefer a role that makes them feel like they are contributing and dishing out the hurt.

EDIT: PHBII states that only touch spells can be channeled. All the whelm spells except overwhelm are close range.

Then just put one skill point in disable device/open lock, and you can use aid another actions to help the rogue. Your blinding abilities from beguiler will make the rogue love you- glitterdust with a TWF rogue is brutal.

You will also get to accompany your sister's rogue on stealth missions. You can handle talking passed guards and stuff, and she can handle the traps and murdering things.

You won't step on the dragon shaman's toes if there is another person up front tanking, ie, absorbing some damage and helping him flank. You will just have a different approach to a fight, using magical spells. In a 3 person party, you're going to want someone who can fill in gaps. Help the dragon shaman build a better tank than your duskblade side, and help your sister build a better rogue than your beguiler side. Anytime you guys get stuck with too many heavies, you can step into battle to help the dragon shaman.

It's kind of a bummer for your party when you're facing a stone golem you are useless against, and the party tank goes "is there anything you can do to help me, I'm getting hammered over here!" and you reply "sorry; didn't want to step on your toes."

You can also change your spell selection of duskblade to focus more on buff/debuff/control than straight damage dealing- get animalistic power, dimension hop (move a rogue into flanking position or an injured dragon shaman out of melee), stand, regroup, ray of enfeeblement, bull strength, dark vision, swift fly, greater magic weapon.

[edit]
I guess you don't have to keep going duskblade on your other side. I would keep beguiler, just so you don't have to lose any caster levels. He makes a fine enchanter, and an ok caster. Make sure you get a level of mindbender, and if you take versatile spellcaster (feat from dragon magic), you can be using your advanced learning to pick up higher level spells than you would otherwise get (two spell levels worth), which means early access to shadow evocation/conjuration. You will still only be able to cast them at the same level everyone else gets to cast them; you just use earlier advanced learnings to pick them up, rather than later ones.

Maybe put monk or something on the other side of the build, to make sure you aren't stepping on any toes :smallwink: Factotum would be fine, since losing to levels of that isn't too big a deal, and getting int to a bunch of stuff is really nice.

DrizztFan24
2009-04-11, 04:37 PM
5 man party actually. Bard//Rogue (sister), Dragon Shaman//Fighter? (brother), Sorc//bard (sister's friend, first timer), Divine Bard (non gestalt party pc to cast heal spells and a little bit of party face), and my Beguiler2/Cleric1/Barb3//Duskblade2/Druid3.

I'm sick of spamming petty one level spells because I don't have enough power to hurt anything in combat yet and I don't have anything better hidden up my sleeves. And I figure the enchanter might be able to suggestion the rogue into scouting when she decides (OOC) to be a pain and get paranoid about something finding her. Her stealthy related modifiers are all over +10...

Chronos
2009-04-11, 05:03 PM
If you want to avoid stepping on the rogue's toes, then Factotum is a bad choice. Beguiler is nearly as good a skillmonkey as Rogue, but Factotum is significantly better.