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CaptainCommando
2009-04-11, 03:09 PM
For those of you who are unaware, I'm a New Yorker who was about to start a horribly planned business called "Caravan of Blades" back in early March. The business was a pay-for-play Dungeons and Dragons 4e campaign. I wasn't thinking clearly. My father had recently passed away of a heart attack and the experience and aftermath were a bit traumatic (I discovered the body that night). I needed to get a job and picked a bad idea for making money.

Fortunately I put a stop to the horror on the first day when I snapped back to my senses.

Unfortunately despite job-hunting since then I still haven't gotten hired. Yesterday featured an interview at the local Burger King yesterday which I think went very badly. I'm having serious doubts about being able to get a job. My resumé sucks, so much that it might be impossible for me to get anything due to local competition being fierce and better qualified in practically every case.

I'm handing in some more applications over the next couple of weeks, but I'm starting to feel very desperate as well as very pathetic.

I'm contemplating another try with paid game mastering. This time with a plausible sane business plan.

This time practically everything would have to be done differently.

This might be just a false alarm but I'm mulling this over nonetheless.

This will be just brainstorming for now. Actually going through with this would be a last resort. I'm open to suggestions.

So to start things off.

1. This will NOT be a pay-for play campaign. This time I'll be a game master hired by the hour. No sitting around simply hoping for people to show up. I'll be able to cancel in case of emergency.

2. I'll charge $8/hour + tip for my services. It will be relatively inexpensive if my clients are paying as a group. The tip is not mandatory.

3. I'll run 1-shot self-contained adventures for DnD 4e. They can be from a menu of prewritten original adventures I'll offer or published adventures or custom adventures tailored to the clients' preferences (with an extra service charge).

4. I'll advertise my services to local meetup groups and specific local businesses. The local DnD Meetup Group for example has over 800 members, many without a regular group or unable to find games that fit their schedules.

5. My primary hook will be convenience. For example, if someone is planning a special birthday party featuring a DnD game, and no one has the time to prepare a game, that's where a hired GM might be considered. I don't have to try to be the best. I just have to run a good fun game and be available. I'll be providing most if not all the gaming materials.

6. I'll have a web site tailored for the business instead of mooching off another website that is focused on something else altogether.

7. I'll scout out every location that I can find that is conducive to gaming to give clients a broad range of places to choose from if they have no specific one in mind.

8. All of my original 1-shots will be tested and refined through the local meetup group's meetup events.

9. I'll create a relationship with the local privately-owned game store(s) and comic shops. Cross advertisement and possible space rental/reservation.

Comet
2009-04-11, 04:27 PM
That would seem to be a good plan, provided you can actually find customers. Keep on thinking these things through and you might end up with a fun way to earn a bit of cash. I don't know what the demand for GMing is around there but I wish you the best of luck!

Keep as many options open as possible and good luck in finding yourself a fun job to do!

CaptainCommando
2009-04-11, 04:45 PM
If I HAVE to resort to paid game mastering, I'll test the waters with the local groups interested in DnD and scifi/fantasy and other types of gaming.

At the very least this is probably a more realistic plan than the previous one.

If I end up doing this, I'll try to supplement with other things that are somewhat flexible, like being a movie extra.

bored_teen
2009-04-11, 08:01 PM
You might also try your hand at either writing adventures for WotC (a long shot), a 3rd party gaming company (less of a long shot), or a fantasy fiction writer. If you're good enough to run professional role-playing games, you likely possess the appropriate skills to hack out some half-decent prose. Short stories, novels, how-to articles even. Maybe some movie scripts? The possibilities are endless!

Samb
2009-04-11, 08:27 PM
I am moving away from my regular group and I can tell you it sucks big time looking for a group. You are in NYC so it is a bit of a drive for me (Suffolk county NY) or I would hired you. I think demand is there but you need to get the word out.

I wish you the best of luck.

Gelondil
2009-04-11, 08:42 PM
Good luck with this... I have an over-thought idea for you...

Offer to supply snacks for your player's convenience. Or heck, even basic meals like sandwiches, etc. Bring a lunch cooler with drinks and sandwiches. Basically, you're being a snack vendor on the side. Besides being an additional source of revenue, it has a huge kickback for you:

Providing inexpensive food makes the prospect of hiring you seem more worthwhile - you are working to help their scheduling conveniences, since they no longer have to work out a meal themselves. Fed gamers are happy gamers. Most importantly, if you eliminate one of the main reasons for people to leave the table, you just might get an extra hour or 2 of play time each session.

kjones
2009-04-11, 11:11 PM
Job hunting sucks in this economy, but don't give up. I'm not saying you shouldn't try the GMing thing - it's definitely worth a shot, and it might even work. But don't get disheartened looking for a "day job" - even if you run games every day, that's only just above minimum wage (unless they're very long sessions).

JackMage666
2009-04-11, 11:18 PM
It's a sensible idea, not a terrible one.. I'd just be worried about making ends meat. $8/hour isn't much, and you're hoping to get 20-40 hours schedules a week. Considering a normal game lasts about 3-4 hours, that's meaning that if you get 2 games a day, you're working 5 days a week (or 6, with 2 short days, ect.)

If you think you can book that many games, more power to you. I know it wouldn't be a feasible business plan here, in Central Texas, but maybe NY has a better market.

magellan
2009-04-12, 09:10 AM
2. I'll charge $8/hour + tip for my services. It will be relatively inexpensive if my clients are paying as a group. The tip is not mandatory.

3. I'll run 1-shot self-contained adventures for DnD 4e. They can be from a menu of prewritten original adventures I'll offer or published adventures or custom adventures tailored to the clients' preferences (with an extra service charge).


Well: you are getting closer to your competitors prices: a slice of pizza and a beer for 4-8 hour sessions... but you are still several 100% above them

Published adventures? Think about it: you expect people to pay you to read? Custom adventures? Thats standard for a non payed DM.

Sell snacks? (I know, not your idea) but it reminded me of an episode of my gaming days: for a while we held our sessions at the flat of a guy who's roommate was an accomplished cook, one of the young shooting stars of the local scene. He served us 4-5 course menus during the games. I am not familiar with NY restaurant prices but i guess something in the vicinity of 100-200 dollar value per person? And we didnt have to pay a single cent.

we ultimately decided to not hold our sessions there anymore, since the food demanded a certain degree of attention, and it started to compete with the game in that respect.

Just as an example of what some people sometimes get for free with their gaming, I just doubt you can compete with that.

Riffington
2009-04-12, 09:46 AM
Magellan: I disagree. Commando is not trying to be "the DM that is better than your existing one, so you'll pay a premium". He's trying to be the "I wish I had a game on Tuesday nights. Oh, there's one" DM. If you have the game schedule you want, you aren't going to go find a professional unless they have a reputation (which he does not yet have). But not everyone has the game schedule they want.

Tengu_temp
2009-04-12, 09:56 AM
9. I'll create a relationship with the local privately-owned game store(s) and comic shops. Cross advertisement and possible space rental/reservation.

This is the most important point, if you ask me - that's the best way to get known as a pro GM. You should try checking if there are any conventions or other social events that are looking for GMs, as well.

I like Gelondil's idea with snacks.

kjones
2009-04-12, 11:29 AM
This is the most important point, if you ask me - that's the best way to get known as a pro GM. You should try checking if there are any conventions or other social events that are looking for GMs, as well.

I like Gelondil's idea with snacks.

The convention idea is good. I know for sure that if I played a great convention game, and found out that the DM was local, I'd be looking him up.

CaptainCommando
2009-04-12, 12:19 PM
I've decided to try the business out. Other jobs will be pursued as the business is underway. Flexible hours for the GMing service will make it possible to pursue other sources of income.

I've collected both positive and negative criticism from each of the 6 forums on which I posted this brainstorming thread. A lot of insults but also a lot of insight, even from some of the insults.

There are profound differences between a pay-for-play campaign and a paid-by-the-hour GMing service. Perhaps the most important difference is flexibility.

Here's a new list. This might not be everything but it's a few steps forward from the first brainstorming list. Keep the comments and the suggestions coming.

1. The business is a DnD 4e GMing service paid by the hour. DnD 3.5e or Pathfinder service might be offered as well though 4e will remain the primary rules system used.
2. The cost might be $15/hour. <no tip mentioned> Too little or too much can drive away clients. The existence of a mandatory tip may cause problematic expectations. A 4-hour session split between 5 players would thus be the equivalent of a movie ticket in Manhattan. Special session packages may be offered at higher or lower rates.
3. The service offers 1-shot adventures (original pre-written, published, or custom). Custom adventures may have free prep or prep at an additional charge based on the amount of time and effort required to fulfill the client's request.
4. The service offers teaching games. This may include rules tutorials, game design tutorials (including monster and NPC design), plot writing tutorials, and at-table performance tutorials. Good for both players and aspiring game masters. Special games for math, science, or history tutoring could be offered.
5. The service offers special cooperative war games with DnD miniatures.
6. The service is sold on time and convenience as well as guaranteed quality.
7. Role-playing products could be sold or advertised at the end or during each session.
8. Snacks could be sold during sessions depending on the gaming location.
9. The service will have its own web site, not part of someone else's.
10. All original adventures are tested through the local DnD meetup group.
11. Local comic and gaming stores should be approached for cooperation. Product discounts, coupons for clients, store and service advertisement, and space reservation/rental may be discussed.
12. A menu of [gaming locations + location details] will be on the web site.
13. Special packages could be offered that may include food or renting a conference room at a hotel or space at a store.
14. Gaming products may be sold or advertised on the service website for extra income.
15. A standard survey should be prepared to find out client preferences and maximize their enjoyment. All sessions should be adapted or suggested based on the survey.
16. Breaks for bathroom or food will not be included in the bill. An itemized billing summary indicating time consumption might be necessary.
17. Extra effort must be taken to memorize story elements to provide a more professional level of performance.
18. Attire and behavior should be professional. A nice shirt and slacks if not a suit and tie.
19. A feedback or evaluation survey form could be given to willing clients with space for writing suggestions on how to improve the service or business model.
20. A minimum 24-hour notice will be given if I have to cancel a session. Any less and the next gaming session is offered for free.
21. Character generation will be offered as pregens, partially constructed characters, or up to the client to create. A character creation tutorial could be offered as part of the session.
22. Business networking is crucial to the service's success. Some companies might hire a known professional game master to run team-building exercises. Local Meetup groups will be marketed to including NYC DnD, Board Games and Card Games, SciFi Fantasy, and BizNet. New groups and companies should be marketed to every month if not daily/weekly. The previous attempt at marketing focused on college students and the marketed product was unmarketable.
23. Copies of all receipts for the service should be kept for tax purposes.
24. A contract with carefully written terms of agreement should be issued at the beginning of a session to prevent certain legal problems.
25. All gaming materials will be provided by me (clients can still bring their own though). This will include dungeon master's screen, dice, pencils, paper, dungeon tiles, printed handouts (including reference sheets), cinema stand, action tokens, and washable battle mat. Reference sheets should be no more than 5 pages. Cinema stand is yet to be tested but holds promise. Meticulous memorization of details/rules and innovative use of pre-tested game design tools (ex. battle challenges and moving terrain) will likely enhance the value of the service.
26. RPGA certification as a judge should be pursued. I'll be registering as a member on Wednesday, and the Herald test has been quickened. Higher level judge certification should be pursued as soon as possible. Having DMing experience recorded on the NYC DnD Meetup site is also helpful for attracting clients.
27. A compilation of play tested and refined adventures from the service will be offered to a game company for increased income.
28. A business relationship with a game company might be possible based on how much attention the service gains.
29. For packages including food, perhaps culinary/baking students might be approached for the promise of a share of the haul and/or in some cases a seat at the table and/or experience to add to their resumés and/or a free game session or product. NYC is loaded with culinary/baking students.
30. Professional web support may be possible. Web designers also have a meetup group. Web design students can always use more cash. Perhaps someone will trade web service in exchange for free game sessions or morbid curiosity or just for fun/experience.

Riffington
2009-04-12, 01:28 PM
It sounds like you are targeting an older demographic than your previous attempt. Consider whether providing beer might enhance or detract from what you are trying to do.

Maltore
2009-04-12, 03:11 PM
If you can somehow prove your worth as a skilled GM, you could try to get pubs/pizza places/gaming stores/any place that might want to attract gamers to hire your services.

If I were running something that could profit from D&D players coming there regularly, providing quality sessions would definitely be something I'd try.

CaptainCommando
2009-04-12, 11:00 PM
Job hunting sucks in this economy, but don't give up. I'm not saying you shouldn't try the GMing thing - it's definitely worth a shot, and it might even work. But don't get disheartened looking for a "day job" - even if you run games every day, that's only just above minimum wage (unless they're very long sessions).

Job hunting does suck, especially in NYC because of all the layoffs in the past year. There's a lot of competition and most of what I'm finding is in a different borough. My pitiful resumé and the fact that I'm not looking for something long-term don't help either.

This game mastering business has flexibility. It's not a campaign. I can continue job hunting while having the service up.

I'm also doing the marketing in smarter fashion. I've joined several business networking groups and I may be able to sell the service as a team-building exercise, since there is already precedent for that.

I'm also offering a war game service. I've got hundreds of dollars worth of minis and tiles from the past several years. I've got experience creating innovative battle scenarios that involve more than just fighting or new ways to fight an opponent.

I may design educational family-oriented sessions that can help kids learn math or history. Parents or legal guardians with young children may hire me for games that the whole family can enjoy and that the children can learn from.

At some point I'll compile my original material into a game supplement to pitch to a game company.

I've got a book that will be finished within a couple of months and my mother rented out a couple of rooms so it's not too much for me to make the difference. This game mastering business doesn't have to make a full living. It just needs to make half the rent for a while. With proper networking and the convenient nature of the service, I can do this.

It's far from impossible. It's more than one kind of service. It's got flexible hours. I'm going in with a clearer head and a better business plan than the previous venture (these threads are not meant to be ads, just brainstorming).

elliott20
2009-04-12, 11:36 PM
While it's a cool idea, I'm a bit skeptical on the feasibility of the GM service alone. While I can see people wanting to pay for a GM, in my own experience, GMing is always a matter of relationship building with your players as much as the actual game running itself, and a lot of people, until they actually get to know the GM's work somehow, will probably not shell out money for this. (if you have samples of play all set up, great)

Once you've built up some steam, I think this you will start seeing more business since the need for GMs are clearly there in NYC. There are enough players out there and not enough GMs, so you can do well with this. But I'm not sure how likely people are going to pay for something that they can do themselves with enough experience. (Almost any long running group will have at least ONE good GM in the group) So primarily, your target audience are going to be people who don't have a group, and people who have a group but have no GM. (which is pretty rare)

As such, group building should also be an important part of your business. Maybe some kind of methodology to getting the players comfortable with each other, and just play together without any problem.

Another thing I think you need to consider is your system choice. 4E is fine and all, but I think only having one system choice limits your potential market. I would suggest learning different systems (that is, go beyond d20 if you must) for different types of games, and so when you look into getting players, you can pick the game that you think best suits their game play style. If you can establish a track record and a relationship with game companies, you can probably get some free materials to learn. Hell, I know a bunch of independent game publishers would LOVE to have their system pushed out there and tested. I recommend you do that and form an alliance with smaller publishers. Maybe you can get a comission for the sales that they get through you.

While you're at it, if you feel confident enough, you can even start doing GMing workshops, where people learn to become BETTER GMs. (i.e. run live sessions during the workshop to show people your process and how you become a better GM) If you pick up ENOUGH steam from that, you can even write a book on it. This idea, of course, might not be as feasible since there are a lot of articles on there on the internet for free on how to become better GMs. But the thing is, reading somebody's material is very different from seeing a person do it in action. So maybe there is something there.

I don't know. I have some skepticism, but I think it's a workable idea. Good luck to you and all that, buddy. Seriously, if you can pull this off, mad props to you.

Knaight
2009-04-13, 12:35 AM
It doesn't sound like it would work well, but you might have gone through enough channels to pull it off. In any case good luck, and if I'm remembering correctly, this plan is a huge improvement over the old one.

Gamgee
2009-04-13, 01:32 PM
It doesn't sound like it would work well, but you might have gone through enough channels to pull it off. In any case good luck, and if I'm remembering correctly, this plan is a huge improvement over the old one.
I concur. At least this plan could potentially be feasable compared to the last one. While I still don't agree with straight up paying for DM services I can at least let this slide since it builds more of that player/DM connection. Not much, but like I said compared to your last plan this is heaps of improvment.

P.S
Good job with doing away with the clown stuff. No offense, but it was just a silly idea. ;)

Knaight
2009-04-13, 05:15 PM
Clown? I must be getting this confused with something else, I was thinking of the one someone made which was a glorified chose your own adventure book, with no room for free form.

OracleofWuffing
2009-04-13, 07:17 PM
I'm also in the skeptic crowd on this, but something tells me networking and the market for DMs in New York is a little bit different than in Nebraska.

List number 25 is a good idea.

Keep in mind how you are going to handle worst-case scenarioes. When you are getting paid $15 an hour, asking problem players to leave becomes a whole lot more troublesome. You might ask the player to leave, and the other players would have to split his cut of the bill, or you might just have to tolerate having everyone around, and either way could leave one or more people dissatisfied. Are you capable of communicating and cooperating well with people who have special needs (Dyslexia, impaired vision, etc)? What happens when the players have consumed more alchohol than their in-game characters (whether provided by you or by the customer), and start to get too rowdy? Or potentially worse, too friendly?

While you may develop repeat customers, a whole lot of what makes this a business- especially at the beginning- is that you're going to be playing with absolute strangers. Otherwise, you're just mooching off of your friends in a creative and circuitous manner. On that note, I could also see people that want to play but don't have enough friends to form a reliable group. Like me. It may seem obvious now, but schedule the resources and time to match up strays. Yes, you can use the internet for that, but many people aren't comfortable advertising their address and times they are home online, but are comfortable with providing the person in front of them a phone number or e-mail address.

I like the idea of dressing professionally for making impressions on people, but when it's showtime, I wouldn't want to face a DM in nice clothes unless the villain of the story is some sort of bureaucracy demon. Don't go overboard with wackiness on this idea, but when you're actually DMing, try to support your story's environment. A vest, a staff, or maybe a cape if you can find one that isn't ostentatious. Elf ears, fake beards, and wizard robes are very likely overdoing it unless you are DMing like a clown. And make sure you're comfortable in whatever clothes you do decide on- you're planning on spending four hours in them.

If you really are enchanted by the website half of this idea, you will want to take pictures (possibly even recordings) of sessions, and that will be tricky. Sure, you can easily get a "nice" picture of people smiling at the table holding their chacter sheets, but your business revolves around playing the game, and a "great" picture of people enjoying the game helps sell you as a DM. If you take pictures with a standard digital camera, only use a flash if it is absolutely necessary. Correct your photos for black and white using Threshold and Curves in photoshop- if what I just said sounded like gibberish, find someone who reads that and says, "Sure, that'll take about five seconds." I know this last point sounds like something finicky, but it goes hand-in-hand with the entire professional atmosphere for which you're aiming.

elliott20
2009-04-13, 07:51 PM
just to build on oracleofwuffing's thoughts, you can do the recording part fairly easily if you get a cheap recorder, put it on the table for each session, and then just upload the file onto some hosting network. One of my friends does a blog called "virtual play" where he records his games, cuts it up, and highlights the parts that are relevant to this week's blog.

for you, you might have to do the same thing for sampling purposes.

again, logistically, the actual idea still needs work. But the core idea I think CAN work. But Oracleofwuffing did make a very good point. You need a good way to handle problem players who are essentially paying customers. That is, you really have to start thinking about procedures for all the worst case scenarios

Jayabalard
2009-04-13, 08:11 PM
I realize this is almost totally a non-sequitur... but coincidentally I saw this offer today: Free Adobe Flex 3 license for unemployed developers (https://freeriatools.adobe.com/learnflex/?PID=1225267). Flexbuilder pro usually runs $700, so if you've got any aptitude toward software/web development at all it might be a worth taking the time to get it.

CaptainCommando
2009-04-13, 08:51 PM
Well the NYC DnD Meetup Group takes pics of meetups so I can use that.

My meetup.com pic is a bit too casual so I'll take another one in a suit or business casual attire and put that on the site.

Otherwise I'm probably going to keep the site simple and to the point.

elliott20
2009-04-13, 09:20 PM
pictures, in my opinion, are not nearly as valuable as the sound play file itself.

and quite honestly, while your attire is probably an important part, I don't think it's anything that you should really put that much focus on. Your business model as it is, still needs work and needs the focus.

ocato
2009-04-13, 10:46 PM
I understand that your idea is not to replace existing GMs or anything like that, but I'm wondering:

I'm in a group that meets on Sundays at 1pm. We finish around 8pm (usually) and there are typically 4-5 PCs (rarely 3 or 6 if the stars align against or for us) and a DM. I brought a pop (a buck or so for one of those tallboys) and chipped in 4 bucks towards a pizza.

Let's say, hypothetically, that you ran our game. 4 players for 7 hours at 15 bucks an hour comes to around $26 each, give or take a quarter. Now, let's say I bought a pop from you for $1.50 and instead of a pizza, we bought sandwiches from you for $2.50 a piece (I made up those prices, I have no clue what people charge for home-made sandwiches because the concept is very foreign to me). Buying food from you is optional, of course (unless you plan to ban 'outside food', which would be a bad move) so the question becomes: Is my game worth 15-20 dollars a week (depending on how many players show up)? Hell, we have trouble getting people to show up every week for free. Seems like you'd need a dedicated customer base.

On the bright side, that's 100-120 bucks for you for 7 hours of work (not counting pre-game prep time). So, let's say you run two games of that length per week, one on Saturday and one on Sunday. Then you have two shorter games (3-4 hours) on weekday nights. Congratulations, even without selling food, you make about as much as a full-time Wal-mart Employee doing what many people do as a hobby.

The trick will be coming up with a fancy title for resumes and polite conversation. Recreations Administrator, Private Entertainer (sounds like a stripper's title)... hmm.

Raum
2009-04-13, 10:58 PM
Job hunting does suck, especially in NYC because of all the layoffs in the past year. There's a lot of competition and most of what I'm finding is in a different borough. My pitiful resumé and the fact that I'm not looking for something long-term don't help either.Job hunting is seldom fun - frankly, it should be approached as a job in and of itself. Set goals and make sure you meet them. As for your resume, you can help fill it out (and make valuable contacts) by volunteering to help various charities with <insert your area of expertise / job desires>.

But, on to your business idea... :)

You need a plan if you want a reasonable chance of success. I do mean a business plan, not just a list of possible services. You need to know locations and any other costs of doing business (costs, marketing deals, etc), your products / services (you seem to have a lot of ideas for this), when you can provide the service and when your customers want it, figure out how much people would be willing to pay and how many customers you need to be successful. The last two are critical - the answers to those will tell you if it's even possible to be successful. And that's a very minimal plan...if you were a business looking for investors you'd need a lot more.

Let's be generous and put together some numbers, figuring you can find customers for every hour they'll reasonably be capable of playing. Hours first - you're looking for people with disposable incomes. This means you'll likely be limited to evenings and weekends. Being generous, lets call it 4 hrs per day M-F and 8 hrs per day Sat & Sun. That's 36* hours per week (assuming you can get that many customers). Figuring an average of 4/game and one game per 4 hours (again, you need adults with disposable income) you have 9 games and need 28 regular customers. If you have a 20% churn rate (I would plan a much higher churn rate** initially, but we're being generous) you'll need 5-6 new players each week. Your expenses are going to include your travel costs, marketing, and any rental or site fees. This comes out of your gross of $540/week. Lets figure cheap marketing, free locations***, and minimal travel costs totaling $40/week. So you net $500 per week...then (assuming a legal**** business) have to pay taxes. You're responsible for your entire Social Security tax as an independent businessman as well as state and local. So figure at least 40% of net is gone off the top. That leaves ~$300/week income. Frankly that's best case. Expect to lose money for months while you establish a reputation and a regular customer base.

Those are best case numbers off the top of my head though...not thought through in much detail. You need to look into all the costs and the demand (number of customers and what they're willing to pay) to come up with realistic numbers.

*It's 36 paid hours with customers, you're probably working double that for marketing, preparation, travel, and setup.
**Figure a 100% churn rate if you're running one off adventures. You may need to build campaigns to keep people interested in returning. Cliffhanger endings may help... :)
***A free location is extremely 'iffy' when you're asking players to pay. Coffee shops are noisy and libraries may think the players are too loud. :/
****There are legalities (some costly) you'll need to consider. Permits, tax number, insurance, etc.

Katrascythe
2009-04-13, 11:01 PM
I might be misreading or just failing really hard at reading... are you going to charge per person or per group?

If you can build up a good base and reputation you might do a campaign where you charge per person to participate. You know, like how they do with FNM?

Someone might have already got that but my brain overloaded a bit with the blocks of text so I'm not sure if I remember it being in there or not.

CaptainCommando
2009-04-13, 11:09 PM
Seems like you'd need a dedicated customer base.

The trick will be coming up with a fancy title for resumes and polite conversation. Recreations Administrator, Private Entertainer (sounds like a stripper's title)... hmm.

Or a lot of people trying it out once or twice. When I start networking, I'll be marketing to a lot of first time gamers or gamers wanting to get back in the saddle once in a while but won't commit to a campaign. If I can sell this as a company team-building exercise, then one company might refer another to my services.

I got an offer to demo product for www.battlegraph.com over at EN world (which I accepted). I'm thinking about promoting more products or making special product demo games available to clients, if I can get game companies interested.

For more GM cred, I'm thinking about organizing a DnD tournament and getting help from RPGA judges to make it an RPGA event. I'd submit a series of dungeon level designs for the event using the battle challenge concept I've been tinkering with.

CaptainCommando
2009-04-13, 11:31 PM
I might be misreading or just failing really hard at reading... are you going to charge per person or per group?


Per group.

The price is not set in stone yet but at $15/hour, a 5-player group splitting the cost for a 4-hour session would each be paying $12, which is the price of a movie ticket in Manhattan.

I'm not sure if I want to exceed a local movie ticket's price for a standard length session.

At $15/hour, that at least covers my transportation and food costs with the first hour.

For special customized sessions, though some might argue such is expected for paying the GM, the amount of prep can vary wildly depending on what is requested. I hope that someone with cash to burn commissions me to prepare a really complicated game. I should probably have a specific line of survey questions prepared for custom jobs. I'm thinking an average extra charge range of $30 to $50. If the request is minimal, a minimum of $5 extra dollars. If the request is bordering on ridiculous, I may request an advance to get the materials I'll need.

It was suggested on the WotC forum that I include 3D terrain to enhance my encounter design. I'll probably do that and combine it with backdrops using the cinematic stand.

elliott20
2009-04-14, 12:17 AM
Job hunting is seldom fun - frankly, it should be approached as a job in and of itself. Set goals and make sure you meet them. As for your resume, you can help fill it out (and make valuable contacts) by volunteering to help various charities with <insert your area of expertise / job desires>.

But, on to your business idea... :)

You need a plan if you want a reasonable chance of success. I do mean a business plan, not just a list of possible services. You need to know locations and any other costs of doing business (costs, marketing deals, etc), your products / services (you seem to have a lot of ideas for this), when you can provide the service and when your customers want it, figure out how much people would be willing to pay and how many customers you need to be successful. The last two are critical - the answers to those will tell you if it's even possible to be successful. And that's a very minimal plan...if you were a business looking for investors you'd need a lot more.

Let's be generous and put together some numbers, figuring you can find customers for every hour they'll reasonably be capable of playing. Hours first - you're looking for people with disposable incomes. This means you'll likely be limited to evenings and weekends. Being generous, lets call it 4 hrs per day M-F and 8 hrs per day Sat & Sun. That's 36* hours per week (assuming you can get that many customers). Figuring an average of 4/game and one game per 4 hours (again, you need adults with disposable income) you have 9 games and need 28 regular customers. If you have a 20% churn rate (I would plan a much higher churn rate** initially, but we're being generous) you'll need 5-6 new players each week. Your expenses are going to include your travel costs, marketing, and any rental or site fees. This comes out of your gross of $540/week. Lets figure cheap marketing, free locations***, and minimal travel costs totaling $40/week. So you net $500 per week...then (assuming a legal**** business) have to pay taxes. You're responsible for your entire Social Security tax as an independent businessman as well as state and local. So figure at least 40% of net is gone off the top. That leaves ~$300/week income. Frankly that's best case. Expect to lose money for months while you establish a reputation and a regular customer base.

Those are best case numbers off the top of my head though...not thought through in much detail. You need to look into all the costs and the demand (number of customers and what they're willing to pay) to come up with realistic numbers.

*It's 36 paid hours with customers, you're probably working double that for marketing, preparation, travel, and setup.
**Figure a 100% churn rate if you're running one off adventures. You may need to build campaigns to keep people interested in returning. Cliffhanger endings may help... :)
***A free location is extremely 'iffy' when you're asking players to pay. Coffee shops are noisy and libraries may think the players are too loud. :/
****There are legalities (some costly) you'll need to consider. Permits, tax number, insurance, etc.

oooh, wow. Raum right there had just given you the one critique that I think could tank the whole deal as a business.

Raum
2009-04-14, 07:35 AM
oooh, wow. Raum right there had just given you the one critique that I think could tank the whole deal as a business.That wasn't my intent. To put it in perspective, most entrepreneurs work very long hours. Most also lose money up front, it simply takes time to build a steady customer base. It takes a good plan based on real research (not numbers I handwaved) to help get through some of the initial roadblocks.

Person_Man
2009-04-14, 11:15 AM
It's been my personal experience that 99% of those who seek to make a living off of their artistic endeavors (acting, writing, painting, etc) fail. Those who succeed tend to get a day job that is somehow related to their passion (actors get jobs doing set construction or other tech work, writers get jobs as editors, etc). Or you can just get any day job, and essentially work a second job at nights and on the weekends doing what makes you happy.

I don't know anyone who would pay to play D&D. There is no way I would pay $8/hour, as an average game would cost me $40-50, and a campaign would cost me thousands. So my suggestion is that you look elsewhere for revenue, and/or find a different business model.

In particular, you might want to use the model that a friend of mine uses to sell armor. During the day, he works as a government bureaucrat. On the weekends, he volunteers at the local museum, giving tours of the medieval weapons and armor section and attends Ren Fairs and outdoor Shakespeare productions in full armor. He meets people who are impressed by his knowledge/workmanship, and sells them his wares. Get a day job, then write some unique modules and other small press publishing ideas, and just work the local gaming store/convention circuit. If what you do is worth while, people will buy it, but you won't be dependent on it for food.

CaptainCommando
2009-04-14, 11:54 AM
I like to remind that the bill can be split among a group and there are people who can easily afford this in a big city like NYC.

Chaot at RPGnet got my foot in the door with a temp agency. God bless whoever Chaot is.

It's not a 100% guarantee for a job so I'll keep checking job ads and setting up the game mastering business on the side.

I figured out some of the numbers so I'll share this with all the brainstorming contributors. If a temp job doesn't pay enough, having game mastering on the side might add up with the job to meet my requirements. My mother rented out a couple of rooms and my brother is helping a little so I just need to make the difference.

My target is a minimum of $900 a month.

With a somewhat generous estimate, this is the level the business would have to perform at to make ends meet if I didn't have other sources of income. This doesn't include printer ink and paper and other materials that I have in sufficient quantity for the time being.

30-day Metrocard = $81 (unlimited public transportation)
$40 budgeted for food expenses per week x 4 = $160
$40 budgeted for xerox copies and business cards.

20 hours a week x 4 weeks x $15 = $1200
monthly income with regular games only = $959
I'd have a $59 monthly surplus.

If I were to raise it to $20/hour and achieve less hours per week...

15 hours a week x 4 weeks x $20 = $1200
monthly income with regular games only = $959
I'd have a $59 monthly surplus.

Keeping in mind a manhattan movie ticket costs $12 for an average 2 hour film and a broadway ticket commonly sells at $200 for a 3 hour show...

****
IRS Publication 501 (2008)
IF your filing status is...single
AND at the end of 2008 you were...*under 65
THEN file a return if your gross income was at least...***$8,950
***

I won't likely have to file a tax return unless I get a really good advance for my novel. I'll keep records in case that happens. The current average advance for a novel is about $10,000. A particularly marketable novel will have a good chance of getting more.

EDIT: I fixed the 19s to 59s for the surplus.

elliott20
2009-04-14, 12:08 PM
Raum, I'm not saying your intent was malicious, I'm just saying the questions you've raised are serious issues that are fundamental to the business plan itself and that Commando needs to address those if he wishes to really make a good run for it.

the question here remains:

1. Who will pay for a GM when most of the time there a lot of good free GMs?
2. Of those who will, how many of them are there in NYC?
3. How does commando reach them effectively?
4. How can commando provide service to them to maintain these numbers?

CaptainCommando
2009-04-15, 11:14 AM
1. Who will pay for a GM when most of the time there a lot of good free GMs?
2. Of those who will, how many of them are there in NYC?
3. How does commando reach them effectively?
4. How can commando provide service to them to maintain these numbers?

1. First of all define good. At least with me there will be a guarantee of experience. My recorded sessions with the local meetup.com group are a point of reference. Also there are a lot of emerging new players because of 4e and many groups are either full or only allowing 1 or 2 new players in. My services include the use of a lot of expensive materials and not every GM will bring all that to the table. There are also gamers with schedules that conflict with game session times and can't play because of the conflict. I'd be offering guaranteed convenience, quality, and experience.
2. I'll find out soon. Once my site is ready and I've talked with all the people I need to on this, my marketing will officially begin.
3. Meetup.com - business networking, scifi fantasy, anime, DnD, board games and card games, old gamers.
4. I'll be offering more than one service. I'll be catering to different gaming needs. I can add more as things move along. The way I'm setting up this time around lets me do that.

Anyway, it was suggested to me to run LFR modules as a service as well. If there are any RPGA gamers in NYC with money to spend on luxuries (extremely likely considering the hobby and the city), they might pay to have LFR run at their leisure instead of going on the same day each week.

magellan
2009-04-16, 03:33 AM
Have you ever met a GM who wasn't the best there ever was in the history of ever? At least according to the players who stayed in his group? I really think that is more a "Your kids are always smarter and prettier than anyone elses" thing than a question of some real talent or ability.

Gorbash
2009-04-16, 03:49 AM
I like to remind that the bill can be split among a group and there are people who can easily afford this in a big city like NYC.

No doubt about that, but are you sure that there are that many groups of people that can't get a DM and be willing to hire you?

Most of people I know who are intrested in D&D but don't play it are those who can't get a group. Once you have a group, it's easy enough for one player to become the DM, it's not rocket science after all.

Ent
2009-04-16, 04:11 AM
No doubt about that, but are you sure that there are that many groups of people that can't get a DM and be willing to hire you?

I think quoting the price of a movie ticket might not be the right way of thinking about it, who can afford to go to a movie every week here?

But I've lived and gamed in NYC most of my life, and yes, people will pay for a GM. I wouldn't, and couldn't afford to at the moment, but in NYC there's a market for almost anything, and there are enough people with money to throw around for entertainment.

CaptainCommando
2009-04-16, 05:54 PM
No doubt about that, but are you sure that there are that many groups of people that can't get a DM and be willing to hire you?

Most of people I know who are intrested in D&D but don't play it are those who can't get a group. Once you have a group, it's easy enough for one player to become the DM, it's not rocket science after all.

It doesn't have to be many. I'm hoping 3 or 4 times a month at least to cover my food and transportation while job hunting.

DMing isn't rocket science, but it becomes an art form. Well done performance acting, story writing, and artistic rendering of fantasy environments can make a huge difference.

I suspect most of my business will be first timers or beginners with money and/or schedules that aren't conducive to prepping games or searching for games. If I can find a company to take me on as a team-building exercise coordinator, then that could potentially become a regular source of income, especially if that client refers other company owners to my services.

Having a game master available for hire for difficult time slots with guaranteed experience and quality of gaming materials is convenient. I'm selling a luxury, not a necessity, and groups with good, experienced DMs or no money to spare are not going to be my primary marketing target for obvious reasons.

CaptainCommando
2009-04-16, 08:41 PM
To the threads still being posted on:

I'm going to need a title for the business website and something to call myself. I'm open to suggestions.

I was thinking something along the lines of 'social game coordinator' instead of 'dungeon master for hire' or 'game master for hire'. I need something that sounds professional and doesn't limit me too much on the options of service I can provide.

On the business cards I'll need to make for business networking, a service/job title could make or break.

Yahzi
2009-04-17, 09:54 PM
I was thinking something along the lines of 'social game coordinator' instead of 'dungeon master for hire' or 'game master for hire'.
Dude... if you put out an ad in New York City that describes you as a "social game coordinator, specializing in role-playing," you are going to get a lot of creepy phone calls and a visit from the Vice squad.

:smallredface:

Stick with "Dungeonmaster for Hire". It's funny and it's honest. It will appeal to the market you are trying to reach. If you can't see yourself introducing yourself as DM for Hire, then you can't see yourself doing this job.

All of this assumes, of course, that you are immune to the rather sterling logic provided by Person Man. I personally know three professionally published authors, and all of them have at least a part-time job.

*Ahem*

Upon reading my comments above, I realized that if you put out business cards that describe you as a Dungeon Master, you are going to get even weirder phone calls.

:smallredface:

CaptainCommando
2009-04-18, 05:55 AM
Dude... if you put out an ad in New York City that describes you as a "social game coordinator, specializing in role-playing," you are going to get a lot of creepy phone calls and a visit from the Vice squad.



Assuming what you mean by ad is something that reaches the general public like a newspaper ad, that will not be the case, at least initially.

Actually, my advertisement will be more focused, posting on specific meetup group message boards and handing out business cards at networking parties. I'm going to where the money is instead of hoping the money comes to me. There's also much less of a chance of "creepy phone calls" this way.

UPDATE
I'm thinking about going with the name "Storyteller Solutions" for the business. I'm leaning towards "game coordinator" for my personal title on business cards.

The services will include:
1. Self-contained prewritten adventures (original, published, and custom order). An additional preparation/design fee will be required for custom orders depending on the scope of the request ($10 to $100+). Both hourly rates and set fees will be offered depending on the adventure used.
2. Special wargames with lots of miniatures and specially prepared "battlefields" (original pre-designed and custom order).
3. DM consultation and tutorials.
4. LFR modules (As soon as my RPGA membership comes through and I take the Herald test).
5. Design work for character backgrounds and homebrew settings. Some DMs might be too busy to flesh out their games as much as they would like to. Fee will vary depending on the scope of work requested. (minimum $20)

Selling adventure modules written for the business may provide an additional source of income.

Hourly rate will likely be $15-20 per hour. Set fees for running adventures will range from $60 to $120 (based on complexity of the adventure and amount of preparation required). Special gaming locations may be offered. Otherwise a list of standard locations in the city will be given.

Marketing will be done through multiple meetup.com groups including business networking groups. The services will be sold both as a social gaming experience and as a company team-building exercise. Fun, educational adventures may be offered as a family activity service.

Dungeons and Dragons 4th edition will be the system of service offered since it is the most "up to date" version, has the recognizable brand name, takes less time to prepare for, and it is beginner friendly. Most potential customers are likely to be beginners and time is limited so 4th edition is the logical choice. Adventures for other systems may be offered some time after the launch of the service.

CaptainCommando
2009-04-18, 05:44 PM
It was suggested on EN World that I include samples of my writing on the business site. A good call.

Also...

I'm fiddling with how I handle client fees. I want things to be fair for the client while protecting me from being taken advantage of. Tell me what you think.

Let's use the following price for example. $72 for a pre-made adventure session estimated to run 4 to 5 hours.

At the end of the first hour (not the beginning), a client must pay at least $15 of the fee. At the end of each half hour afterwards, an increasing fraction of the payment becomes mandatory in increments.

The client doesn't have to pay full price if the session is cut short or becomes unsatisfactory. The initial presentation is guaranteed to be satisfactory or no fee is demanded during the first hour.

I won't lose too much if the client ends the session prematurely.

The client doesn't have to worry about the session being rushed or prolonged. I can focus on making the experience fun and immersive instead of worrying about the time.

THAC0
2009-04-19, 01:15 AM
I like to remind that the bill can be split among a group and there are people who can easily afford this in a big city like NYC.

Chaot at RPGnet got my foot in the door with a temp agency. God bless whoever Chaot is.

It's not a 100% guarantee for a job so I'll keep checking job ads and setting up the game mastering business on the side.

I figured out some of the numbers so I'll share this with all the brainstorming contributors. If a temp job doesn't pay enough, having game mastering on the side might add up with the job to meet my requirements. My mother rented out a couple of rooms and my brother is helping a little so I just need to make the difference.

My target is a minimum of $900 a month.

With a somewhat generous estimate, this is the level the business would have to perform at to make ends meet if I didn't have other sources of income. This doesn't include printer ink and paper and other materials that I have in sufficient quantity for the time being.

30-day Metrocard = $81 (unlimited public transportation)
$40 budgeted for food expenses per week x 4 = $160
$40 budgeted for xerox copies and business cards.

20 hours a week x 4 weeks x $15 = $1200
monthly income with regular games only = $959
I'd have a $59 monthly surplus.

If I were to raise it to $20/hour and achieve less hours per week...

15 hours a week x 4 weeks x $20 = $1200
monthly income with regular games only = $959
I'd have a $59 monthly surplus.

Keeping in mind a manhattan movie ticket costs $12 for an average 2 hour film and a broadway ticket commonly sells at $200 for a 3 hour show...

****
IRS Publication 501 (2008)
IF your filing status is...single
AND at the end of 2008 you were...*under 65
THEN file a return if your gross income was at least...***$8,950
***

I won't likely have to file a tax return unless I get a really good advance for my novel. I'll keep records in case that happens. The current average advance for a novel is about $10,000. A particularly marketable novel will have a good chance of getting more.

EDIT: I fixed the 19s to 59s for the surplus.

I think that anticipating getting 20 hours/week is... ambitious. Most groups play 1x/week or less, in my experience. You'll also run into many groups meeting at the same time, which obviously cuts your pool.

In the same vein, making $900 a month also seems ambitious. I'm a musician, I gig to supplement my day job. Now, I've never gone hard-core into gigging, but even when I was literally the only one in a good sized town that played my instrument, I never got $900 a month, much less regularly.

Gorbash
2009-04-19, 02:23 AM
To the threads still being posted on:

I'm going to need a title for the business website and something to call myself. I'm open to suggestions.

I was thinking something along the lines of 'social game coordinator' instead of 'dungeon master for hire' or 'game master for hire'. I need something that sounds professional and doesn't limit me too much on the options of service I can provide.

On the business cards I'll need to make for business networking, a service/job title could make or break.

You're trying to sound professional... In a game where people are imaginig hitting other people on their heads with swords? :smallconfused:

It's a game. Just deal with it that you're a professional gamer, no shame in that. 'Storyteller Solutions' doesn't imply that you're a DM for hire, and I totally agree with this:


It will appeal to the market you are trying to reach.

Social Game Coordinator sounds a bit pretencious and honestly it's the same as calling fat people horizontally challenged...

Kurald Galain
2009-04-19, 02:32 AM
I'm thinking about going with the name "Storyteller Solutions" for the business.

Just FYI, "Storyteller" is the RPG system used by White Wolf. So you might get calls from people who expect you to run a Vampire: the Masquerade game.

endoperez
2009-04-19, 06:38 AM
You could advertice your games as "team building activities" for businesses, in addition to games for individuals. Even a small business can easily afford to pay you more than individuals, and there's an existing market and actual businesses that specialize in these "activities". Here's a link to one in New York.

http://www.phillyhops.com/

They don't seem to do roleplaying games, but group games, quizzes and such, but roleplaying games do the same things, except for smaller groups. Even if some businesses don't want a 4th ed game, they might need someone with the qualities of a GM to hold "an activity". You might have better luck running rules-light games where they don't have to create or choose a complicated character or play themselves. Zombie apocalypse could be fun way to start.

All the best to you, hope you can make the ends meet.

CaptainCommando
2009-04-19, 10:58 AM
You're trying to sound professional... In a game where people are imaginig hitting other people on their heads with swords? :smallconfused:

It's a game. Just deal with it that you're a professional gamer, no shame in that. 'Storyteller Solutions' doesn't imply that you're a DM for hire, and I totally agree with this:

Social Game Coordinator sounds a bit pretencious and honestly it's the same as calling fat people horizontally challenged...

It's a business. What can I say? :smalltongue:

I'm considering adding standard storytelling to the service. People do apparently get paid to tell stories to kids and whatnot. I do have a reference as a children's Sunday School teacher. Maybe a puppet show...

The fact that I DM for hire will obviously be included in my pitches and ads. Nobody just sells their business name without saying what they do.

The pretentious feel is why I'm dropping the word "social" and possibly titling myself on the cards as simply a game coordinator/storyteller. Straight to the point. Saying "Dungeon Master for hire" to people who've never played DnD could send the wrong signal...

The minimum demand for this is guessed to be sparse but enough for a few clients a month. The actual demand could swing higher considering the city I'm doing this in. It's a side business that will either fund my job hunting (partially at least) or take care of my financial needs. If I can sell my adventures, then that could cover me too. It all depends on how I execute this. Hmm...

I need a cookie. :smallannoyed:

CaptainCommando
2009-04-22, 02:49 PM
TODAY'S UPDATE

1. I'm officially a Herald level event organizer for the RPGA. Huzzah! :cool:

2. I'm trying to finalize my pricing today. :eek:

This is what I'm leaning on after some thought and getting feedback.

$105 total for a standard 5-6 hour original or published adventure - published adventures will be enhanced to provide a better quality experience.

$189 total for a special extended session lasting from 10 to 12 hours.

$63 total to run an LFR module (4 hour adventure) + an additional $21 to run a second module on the same day + an additional $21 to run a third module on the same day.

I've decided to replace the "special miniatures wargame" service with a continuous dungeon delving service with a flat fee based on how many dungeon levels are requested. $42 total for the first 3 dungeon levels + $10.50 for each additional dungeon level. Each dungeon level averaging 1 hour to complete and featuring exciting combat, problem-solving, and innovative use of terrain (some including moving terrain and/or 3d terrain).

Payment up front upon arrival. Satisfaction guaranteed or refund given.

Minimum $21 kept at the end of every standard and extended session if at least 1 hour has been played to prevent abuse of services.

Minimum $63 kept at end of extended session if at least 5 hours have been played.

For LFR modules - no refund per module upon distribution of official player character rewards from each module run. People won't necessarily play for the extra visuals and performance acting and gaming materials I bring to the session. They might pay for standard or extended regular games after trying an LFR module with me though.

For dungeon delving - minimum $21 kept at the end of session. Minimum $42 kept if additional levels are played after the first 3.

Actual storytelling for children - depends on story requested - I'll be figuring this one out later.

lisiecki
2009-04-22, 09:11 PM
TODAY'S UPDATE
$63 total to run an LFR module (4 hour adventure) + an additional $21 to run a second module on the same day + an additional $21 to run a third module on the same day.

Wasn't your selling point when you first posted this idea, how amazing and unique your storyline would be, as well as the wealth of original materiel you would be presenting with the game?

CaptainCommando
2009-04-22, 10:06 PM
Wasn't your selling point when you first posted this idea, how amazing and unique your storyline would be, as well as the wealth of original materiel you would be presenting with the game?

I'm offering more than one service, if you read my posts through.

LFR is one of several different services that will be offered, including original adventures.

Although I will indeed make my original adventures amazing and as unique as I can, originality is not my ONLY selling point nor is it my biggest selling point. Many other GMs can be original for free.

Also, perhaps you're reading from the original posts from the previous venture? This current planned business is a different animal.

The Glyphstone
2009-04-22, 10:07 PM
Wasn't your selling point when you first posted this idea, how amazing and unique your storyline would be, as well as the wealth of original materiel you would be presenting with the game?

His 'original idea' also consisted of, as someone bluntly put it, a D&D version of Choose Your Own Adventure, with very little freedom on the part of the players.

This time around, it's looking much better...and if you didn't notice, he's also offering custom made adventures - pregenned LFR modules are a cheaper alternative.

EDIT: And simu-ninjaed by the OP apparently.

CaptainCommando
2009-04-23, 09:19 PM
This time around, it's looking much better...and if you didn't notice, he's also offering custom made adventures - pregenned LFR modules are a cheaper alternative.


The LFR modules will probably be crucial to my initial success (if this goes off well). I'll be starting light with the other stuff.

TODAY'S UPDATE

I decided to browse further with free web sites and found a web host called Webs. It has a template for web sites that's perfect for my business (looks like a book opened up). I've started putting up basic things. I'll be starting with at least a 1st level adventure and a 5th level adventure, a 3-5 stage puzzle dungeon, and I've decided to do war games after all. For storytelling I'm going to start with biblical stories and see if I can get churches to hire me. I may do the first few stories for free to gain extra references and recommendations.

CaptainCommando
2009-04-27, 02:50 PM
It's getting close. Next week is the week that I expect to start getting inquiries for hiring if any. The website will be ready by tomorrow and the basic services will be ready by Sunday. People will be able to order LFR sessions starting this week though.

I'm also crossing my fingers on getting a regular job as well. Several local openings and a temp agency interview are what I'm gunning for. I don't expect much but I did get some help with my resumé so there's a bit more hope lately.

Anyway...

TODAY'S UPDATE

I've had some problems the past couple of days with my computer crashing a lot. I managed to get some work done on the site though.

I'm hoping to get a lot done today and tomorrow before tomorrow's business networking party, where I'll be pitching to possibly 100+ potential clients.

I'll be posting the business site address on marketing boards and local meetup message boards by tomorrow afternoon.

Josh the Aspie
2009-04-28, 07:12 PM
Hey there. This is the first time I've seen this thread. It seems that some of the advice and thoughts I came up with would have been more useful if given to you in a timely measure... but for what they're worth, here they are. Business based advice first, moving into D&D advice (crossover in the middle).

Business:

First of all, I think you may want to consider WHY your resume 'sucks'. If it is because you are bad at marketing yourself, this will also provide a sizable obstacle to putting together a good business plan. If you have friends and family that are successful in the business world, you may want to consider having them look it over, and spending some time working on it. Any conceptual breakthroughs or advice you get there may well help you in understanding how to make any other self-marketing materials better.

Secondly, while I haven't -been- a small business owner, I have worked for one, and he's explained several of his tactics to me so that I could help him implement them more proficiently. The following is one that might help not only you, but other small buisness owners as well.

First of all, any time you can, trade services. This can be advantageous on many levels. First of all, people who may not have much spare cash might have other resources that you could use, and be willing to trade them. For example, unless you are a top notch expert in website development, you might want to out-source some of your website development (or perhaps hosting) work to a 3rd party.

Another example would be outsourcing the color scheme design, or graphical art work to a graphic design student. You might be able to get one to come up with a really good logo for you, which could then be included on the website, and on business cards, and do the work of getting it trademarked, so long as you pay the fees for the process. This would help a lot with branding.

An additional benefit is that, especially while you are attempting to build a customer base, it would actually accomplish this, even if it does not increase your paying customer base. This can be advantageous to any businessmen man in the following ways. First of all, anyone you can get using your service, and talking about it to others in a positive way is a win for you, as this kind of marketing is the most effective at convincing others to try your product. Secondly, the more customers you have, paying or non, the more likely other people are to regard your skills as being worth your while. It will also give you practice in providing your service, and this kind of experience can help you hammer out the bugs.

Another very benefit for you that is specific to your business occurs if you are having trouble filling a table, having say... only 2 or 3 players... having this fellow business person at the table can actually make the experience more enjoyable for you, and for the others. (Less chance of lacking a role or skill set needed for a module). For your games to really be enjoyable enough for others to become repeat customers, you need a minimum gaming base... yet to get a minimum gaming base, you need... it can be a vicious circle you have to break to get started. This can help you break that loop.

And every hour of skilled work you get done on your behalf equals an hour you don't have to spend on it, thus freeing up your own time, essentially for free, or allowing you to spend another hour generating revenue.

In addition, the 'trading of services' allows you to expand your network, which may help with other business opportunities (such as, perhaps, seeking a more regular job) later on.

Even if you are going to game at locations others specify to you, at their time, with a group they specify, rather than your putting together your own time slot, if they are missing a few, being able to suggest the possibility of filling out the table with a good gamer you know may be viewed as an enhancement to the service.

Now, a warning about taxes: Be absolutely sure that when you look up the taxes you are expected to pay, you are using the tax guidance for small business owners, or the self-employed.

Also, if you are going to count on local game shops providing you with a place to game, check with them first to see if they sell food or not. If they don't check and see if they are okay with your bringing food into their stores. Many gaming stores that I am familiar with have a snack area behind the counter, maybe even a cooler, and sell their own refreshments to gamers. They are not likely to be happy with your impinging upon their existing revenue stream.

Another note on food: If you plan on making your own, be aware that there are several regulations involved that you will need to become familiar with to avoid the possibility of being hit with fines and sanctions. Further, unless you have access to a restaurant style kitchen designed to meet these regulations that most apartment and home kitchens do not need to meet (such as a 3 section sink for dish washing), you may want to avoid this completely, bring pre-packaged food, and sell it at a premium. If you buy from a discount club such as Sam's club, you might be able to under-cut nearby convenience stores and grocery stores slightly, offer convenience, and still make a profit. Most of these stores require a fee, but on the up side, if you already have this membership for your small business, this will help you cut your own grocery fees, and you can combine personal and business shopping.

Both/Crossover
As a specific marketing tip, if you can find a place to get it done inexpensively, or someone who is willing to do trade services to do so, it might be a good idea to get promotional materials made. This can include things like pens and pencils (everyone needs writing materials at a D&D table!), to dice bags, and dice boxes. Give these away for free to your gamers, and anyone else who might want a small durable bag, pencil, pen, or multi-segmented container.

If you have your name on these objects (and possibly business name), the services you provide, and your contact number, this will be a great form of marketing that will find it's way to places you may never have ever considered before. The pen/pencil trick is a common one among small businesses... because it works. People find / loose / give / trade / steal writing implements all the time, and thus your contact info and service list will find it's way all across your local market. This is far more effective than a business card, as people are far less likely to loose or toss a useful item that happens to have your info on it, than they are to toss something that has no value -other- than having your contact info on it.

If you grow your business enough, get a few larger items. Specialized items relating to the business will catch people's attention more often, and the materials will be viewed more favorably by them. Perhaps after each long game session (such as the weekends), the players get to vote on who the best player is, and that player wins the prize of the dice bag / dice box. This will cause it to be prised more highly. And if they don't want it, someone else at the table may ask for it, get it, and be extremely happy at their luck. A prized item is not only a conversation piece, but it generates good will, and is even more likely to get your word out, especially in the community the item is designed to be used in.

As to professional attire: While I agree that you do not want to be slovenly, beware of over-dressing for the occasion. For general gaming attire, there are three base outfits on the border of what I would personally appropriate (as always, your millage may vary).

Jeans and a Polo - The most casual. This is unlikely to make anyone uncomfortable, and brings a touch of class to a table that holds mostly t-shirts and jeans.
Polo and slacks (Khakies prefered). Same as the above, but just a touch dressier. May be the best if you are going to game away from a game store, and out of someone's home, such as a coffe house. Not intimidating, but clearly proffesional.
Dress Shirt and slacks - no tie. This is the upper end, and would be best for gaming following a fancy resturant trip if the game was commissioned for a special occasion. This would help you fit in with the party guests without making them feel they are over-dressed. Also good for any buisness based team-building games, if you branch out here. This style of dress is acceptable in most office, from casual ones where jeans and polos predominate, to places where most folks wear suits. In a casual one, it may help to establish you as the one in charge, as managers often dress up just a touch more than their subordinates. In a more formal office, it may help to set up a more casual atmosphere necessary for gaming.


When in doubt, ask how your primary/coordinating client (if there is one) would prefer you dress. Always feel free to suggest different styles of dress if you are debating between one or two. If you don't have a suit, don't give them the option to tell you to show up in a suit.

On a related note to the above, an accessory to consider for the collar and shirt look, if you want to stay more formal than either of the polo options, is a good vest. The vest is both a step above no accessory when it comes to how formal your look is, but it also is old fassioned, and anything old fassioned helps to set the mood for D&D. Consider a vest in velvetine or brocade if the module is going to have a mage, a cleric, or other rich / schollarly type as an NPC, or a sued vest for a barbarian / rogue / fighter / ranger / druid major NPC. This would be an unobtrusive way to accessorize towards the flavor of the game, while still bringing off a very roffessional look.

Gaming

Okay, first off, be VERY aware that the fewer games you can run, the fewer takers you will have. If I was having a REALLY hard time finding a good game, I might consider a one off pay for play game for a 3.5, 3.0, SW Saga, Rokugan, Exalted game, etc. This is more likely because everyone and their brother seems to be playing 4.0 these days. I have better things to do with my time than play 4.0 when it's FREE, and only do so as a favor to others. Obviously not everyone feels that way... but enough aren't interested in 4.0, that expanding your DMing options might be worth while. This is especially true if you already own at least the basic core books from these systems. Heck, Exalted and Legend of the Five Rings / Rokugan only need 1 core book each for the most basic version of the game.

Another consideration is characters and their sheets. For begining players, or people who see that you have a game going, and ask to join (willing to chip in), it is ALWAYS handy to have a character sheet of the appropraite level available.

I'd also suggest putting these sheets online, since if someone does not want to bother putting together a character for a one off, and is satisfied with a pre-gen, it may help to give them time to look over the character without having to give or send them a copy of the sheet. You could either do this with PDF versions of the sheet, or on a site like Myth-Weavers.com

By the same token, if someone is going to bring a pre-made character that they would like to play with you, you might ask them to post it online, so that you can review it ahead of time. This way you can resolve any character issues ahead of time.

Either way, this solves the issue of bogging the game down with character creation issues. While a 'first gaming session' for free that will be meeting regularly can survive this, at a one-time gaming session people have paid for, this may be down-right unacceptable.

Also, decide ahead of time how you are going to handle cheating in a variety of situations. If it's an RPGA sanctioned game, this is already handled for you... but if it's not... well, if every player at the table is fine with cheating (as in some places and some groups, I have been told they are), your bringing it up and squashing it may be viewed as unacceptable. On the other hand, allowing it to go on may cause you to loose other players.


I hope that the above will be helpful to you.

magellan
2009-04-29, 01:12 AM
Snipped the good stuff cause its long

Good advice up there, and i just wanted to add something to the suit & tie thing. In my experience people who wear suit and ties come in 3 groups. Those who have to, those who want to, and those who think it will earn them respect. (a subgroup of this is the "20 year old kid who likes to pretend he's 30")

The first two have a rather highly developed sense when it comes to detecting each other and the 3rd, who therefore invariably fai inl achieving their goal. They also can identify cheap suits better than the layman.

Bottom line: If you think wearing suit and tie helps you it propably won't.

AngelSword
2009-04-29, 01:47 AM
Assuming what you mean by ad is something that reaches the general public like a newspaper ad, that will not be the case, at least initially.

Actually, my advertisement will be more focused, posting on specific meetup group message boards and handing out business cards at networking parties. I'm going to where the money is instead of hoping the money comes to me. There's also much less of a chance of "creepy phone calls" this way.

UPDATE
I'm thinking about going with the name "Storyteller Solutions" for the business. I'm leaning towards "game coordinator" for my personal title on business cards.

The services will include:
1. Self-contained prewritten adventures (original, published, and custom order). An additional preparation/design fee will be required for custom orders depending on the scope of the request ($10 to $100+). Both hourly rates and set fees will be offered depending on the adventure used.
2. Special wargames with lots of miniatures and specially prepared "battlefields" (original pre-designed and custom order).
3. DM consultation and tutorials.
4. LFR modules (As soon as my RPGA membership comes through and I take the Herald test).
5. Design work for character backgrounds and homebrew settings. Some DMs might be too busy to flesh out their games as much as they would like to. Fee will vary depending on the scope of work requested. (minimum $20)

Selling adventure modules written for the business may provide an additional source of income.

Hourly rate will likely be $15-20 per hour. Set fees for running adventures will range from $60 to $120 (based on complexity of the adventure and amount of preparation required). Special gaming locations may be offered. Otherwise a list of standard locations in the city will be given.

Marketing will be done through multiple meetup.com groups including business networking groups. The services will be sold both as a social gaming experience and as a company team-building exercise. Fun, educational adventures may be offered as a family activity service.

Dungeons and Dragons 4th edition will be the system of service offered since it is the most "up to date" version, has the recognizable brand name, takes less time to prepare for, and it is beginner friendly. Most potential customers are likely to be beginners and time is limited so 4th edition is the logical choice. Adventures for other systems may be offered some time after the launch of the service.

Two points.
First, have you been authorized by the RPGa (and Wizards of the Coast, consequently) to not only run Living Forgotten Realms adventures, but to charge people for playing under you? The behemoth that is the WotC legal department is not something to be trifled with, and they may not take kindly to someone using their adventures (or product identity, really) to turn a profit, which may also detract from attendance to conventions they sponsor (namely, Gen Con).

Second, on the note of Meetup.com, I'd rethink that strategy. I take personal offense to someone who is only a member of my meetup group to promote their own endeavors. If someone were to post an advertisement* on the discussion section (particularly without ever coming to the meetup), their posts would be deleted, and if continued, the user would be removed from accessing. *again

CaptainCommando
2009-04-29, 01:52 AM
1. First of all, I think you may want to consider WHY your resume 'sucks'.

2. First of all, any time you can, trade services.

3. Another very benefit for you that is specific to your business occurs if you are having trouble filling a table, having say... only 2 or 3 players...

Even if you are going to game at locations others specify to you, at their time, with a group they specify, rather than your putting together your own time slot, if they are missing a few, being able to suggest the possibility of filling out the table with a good gamer you know may be viewed as an enhancement to the service.

4. Now, a warning about taxes: Be absolutely sure that when you look up the taxes you are expected to pay, you are using the tax guidance for small business owners, or the self-employed.

5. Also, if you are going to count on local game shops providing you with a place to game, check with them first to see if they sell food or not.

6. Another note on food: If you plan on making your own, be aware that there are several regulations involved that you will need to become familiar with to avoid the possibility of being hit with fines and sanctions.

7. As a specific marketing tip, if you can find a place to get it done inexpensively, or someone who is willing to do trade services to do so, it might be a good idea to get promotional materials made. This can include things like pens and pencils (everyone needs writing materials at a D&D table!), to dice bags, and dice boxes. Give these away for free to your gamers, and anyone else who might want a small durable bag, pencil, pen, or multi-segmented container.

8. If you grow your business enough, get a few larger items. Specialized items relating to the business will catch people's attention more often, and the materials will be viewed more favorably by them. Perhaps after each long game session (such as the weekends), the players get to vote on who the best player is, and that player wins the prize of the dice bag / dice box.

9. When in doubt, ask how your primary/coordinating client (if there is one) would prefer you dress. Always feel free to suggest different styles of dress if you are debating between one or two. If you don't have a suit, don't give them the option to tell you to show up in a suit.

10. Okay, first off, be VERY aware that the fewer games you can run, the fewer takers you will have. If I was having a REALLY hard time finding a good game, I might consider a one off pay for play game for a 3.5, 3.0, SW Saga, Rokugan, Exalted game, etc.

11. Another consideration is characters and their sheets. For begining players, or people who see that you have a game going, and ask to join (willing to chip in), it is ALWAYS handy to have a character sheet of the appropraite level available.

By the same token, if someone is going to bring a pre-made character that they would like to play with you, you might ask them to post it online, so that you can review it ahead of time. This way you can resolve any character issues ahead of time.

Either way, this solves the issue of bogging the game down with character creation issues. While a 'first gaming session' for free that will be meeting regularly can survive this, at a one-time gaming session people have paid for, this may be down-right unacceptable.

12. Also, decide ahead of time how you are going to handle cheating in a variety of situations. If it's an RPGA sanctioned game, this is already handled for you... but if it's not... well, if every player at the table is fine with cheating (as in some places and some groups, I have been told they are), your bringing it up and squashing it may be viewed as unacceptable. On the other hand, allowing it to go on may cause you to loose other players.


1. I've been getting help recently with my resumé. It looks much better than before. I'm a little bit more hopeful now.

2. That's a good idea. I met some people during the business networking party I went to earlier who might be open to some kind of deal. I met people who work in web design, promotional material, and filming/editing. Imagine of I could get a session filmed...would people pay to see that? Hmm...

3. The client is responsible for bringing the group since this isn't a pay for seat but rather pay for DM. I can work with any size up to 8. 9 would be pushing it to the extreme (I strongly recommend no more than 8 on the site).

4. There are other taxes as well. I did check this. I'll be keeping records but I get the feeling I might slide just under the poor person's tax waiving line (if you don't make a certain amount of income you are not actually required to file taxes).

5. The one game store with playing space left in Manhattan allows outside food to be brought in. Delis with cozy upstairs seating have become the new gaming meccas and the city is dotted with them. I've scouted over a dozen spots. I may be able to work out a deal with a certain comic store that opened up its basement for tcg tournaments. Hotel conference rooms are also another way to go.

6. I would partner with an actual chef or culinary student in that case. The city is littered with white hats.

7. I did get a card from a guy who does promotional materials.

8. My regular games are about the story, not who outdid the rest. That might work for the wargames though when get around to them.

9. Asking the client how casual/formal they'd prefer my wear is a great idea. I will definitely do that.

10. I'll be designing with 4th edition primarily but I'm leaving things open to other systems through the customized adventures service.

11. I'm designing a custom pre-gen sheet layout. I'm going to have a list on the site with brief descriptions.

12. It's the client bringing the group. I'll make my stance on cheating clear from the get go though, since it can ruin the fun. RPGA will be a lot easier since there are rules established for this.

TODAY'S UPDATE

Things are starting to look up. My computer was crashing a lot but it seems to be getting better after I loosened the hard drive by deleting a lot of useless junk files.

The website for the business is in working order, barely. The crashes delayed my efforts a bit so a lot of the stuff won't be ready until the weekend.

I went to my first business networking party. I handed out about 30 business cards. I'm going to start placing online ads.

I'm hitting a few bumps but things seem to be moving along.

What will come first? A job or a client for the business? Ladies and gentlemen place your bets. :smallsmile:

CaptainCommando
2009-04-29, 02:11 AM
Two points.
First, have you been authorized by the RPGa (and Wizards of the Coast, consequently) to not only run Living Forgotten Realms adventures, but to charge people for playing under you? The behemoth that is the WotC legal department is not something to be trifled with, and they may not take kindly to someone using their adventures (or product identity, really) to turn a profit, which may also detract from attendance to conventions they sponsor (namely, Gen Con).

Second, on the note of Meetup.com, I'd rethink that strategy. I take personal offense to someone who is only a member of my meetup group to promote their own endeavors. If someone were to post an advertisement* on the discussion section (particularly without ever coming to the meetup), their posts would be deleted, and if continued, the user would be removed from accessing. *again

I am indeed a certified judge/event organizer. I am being paid for my time running the games, not for selling/distribution of copyrighted materials. There are no rules against making a living off of running LFR games. Charging players for RPGA games is nothing new nor contested (to my knowledge at least).

EDIT: I can also point out that there are expenses that the client fees cover such as food, transportation, and gaming materials. Ultimately, I can say that most of what I charge for running LFR modules goes to WotC anyway through my purchases and future purchases of minis, tiles, books, etc.

There are lots of people or groups who have trouble gaming or getting to the meetups because of their schedules. Offering a service that potentially takes care of that problem is hardly an offense in a group that facilitates gaming. I'm going to be running lots of games for the DnD meetup group - many of which will be the first chance to try out adventures I may be paid to run later or get published. I don't and never will charge for the games I run for meetups. I think it's going to be more towards curiosity and raised expectations if I mention that I'm starting a side business running games for hire. I'm fine with that.

Also, most of the meetup groups I've joined are business networking groups that are all about promoting business. Everyone can see my meetup profile for themselves.

Kurald Galain
2009-04-29, 03:40 AM
I am indeed a certified judge/event organizer. I am being paid for my time running the games, not for selling/distribution of copyrighted materials. There are no rules against making a living off of running LFR games. Charging players for RPGA games is nothing new nor contested (to my knowledge at least).

Key phrase being "to your knowledge".

I think AngelSword has a very good point, and you should definitely verify this with somebody you know that is legally trained. Just because you feel it should be legal doesn't mean that WOTC agrees with that (and on this issue it is their opinion that matters, not yours). Cease-and-Desist orders are not uncommon in fan communities, so I would advice you to look into avoiding one.

Josh the Aspie
2009-04-29, 04:33 AM
Snip
I've followed your numbering system below for my replies to your replies. I've left out small simple response answers like 'cool' or 'good'.

2. I think it would be a better idea to have excerpts from this film that do not spoil plot points be used as promotional materials. You can have these clips in a 'samples' area of your website. Also, if you use a 'you in the box' self marketing technique, then you can include the video files on the CD or DVD that you provide as a part of it.

You might show yourself giving one of the more dramatic bits of boxed text, possibly (possibly a game opening). Another good clip would be calm conflict resolution. Another one might be anything non-plot spoiling that results in a player moment of joy. This way you don't ruin the plot for the client, while still allowing people to see your DMing style, which may help relieve any concerns of people not willing to pay for a DM, where they have no idea of the style. It may also help weed out potential customers who would be dis-satisfied very early on. (Some people's styles simply do not match)

3. Ah. I wasn't sure what models you were currently using here. This might be more advantageous if you try putting some low-seating tables together yourself, as having people you agreed to seat at these without additional cost might actually help you fill these tables out better. Still, I would advise you to keep this tactic in mind in case you have a client who has 2-4 players, but would like 1 or 2 more people at the table. If they express this fact, you might suggest bringing in a player you know from the past in order to fill the slot. They may (or may not) view this as additional service on your end. Also, as a general comment about some of your replies, you seem to be stating that a lot of things are the responsibility of your client. How you coordinate with those you are trading services with is up to you.

As a small business owner, your job is to please your client in any way that is reasonable. If someone is willing to hire you for himself, and only 3 other people... but would like to have a group with one member of each 4E role... it may be a good thing to have someone to bring in to play that 5th role.

6. Keep in mind I'm not personally familiar with what the regulations ARE, just that there ARE some, and that in some areas even church kitchens used for church events seem to be required to have the 3-section sink. But yes, partnering with another small business owner willing to provide you with good food customized to your business may be a good idea. You may even be able to get things that are in-theme for your games. Mutton and mead, maybe? Probably not, still, I'm sure you get the flavor of the idea.

7. Cards are only the beginning of promotional materials. See my original bit about how information stored on pends tends to get more viewing per item than that stored on little scraps of disposable paper.

8. It doesn't have to be about 'out-doing' the rest, so much as who contributed most to the session. The person who made it the most fun. MVP. And that was just one option. you might just give it to the primary client. If they want to keep it, cool. If not, they can give it to another gamer at the table, or someone else entirely. And if people in the group take turns paying for your services, then those who hold the primary payer dice box may serve as a reminder of just who has yet to pay.

9. There is already a large wealth of pre-published materials for many games OTHER than 4th edition. Expanding your inventory of services for the cost of a free online PDF (some adventures are put out this way), and printing costs would open up your flexibility, and give you a wider customer base. I'm not suggesting you write custom modules out of the blue just to expand your selection, but you might as well look into things like "Heroes of Rokugan II" (another living campaign), or other systems with pre-published adventures. For the cost of a little bit of convenient experience, and a single book, you can add a whole additional campaign to your library.

10. If you're going with pre-gens, allow me to re-state that if you give a player (especially a spell-caster) time to get to know their character and the abilities ahead of the game session, this can cut down on the time you need to spend at-table helping the players with the rules for said character. If you're not, having a form and letting people see it is hardly going to make it easier for you to go over rules-issues ahead of time, if someone comes to the session with a character that is simply not properly constructed. (A 5th level wizard with 20 feats, for example).

CaptainCommando
2009-04-30, 05:52 PM
2. I think it would be a better idea to have excerpts from this film that do not spoil plot points be used as promotional materials. You can have these clips in a 'samples' area of your website. Also, if you use a 'you in the box' self marketing technique, then you can include the video files on the CD or DVD that you provide as a part of it.

7. Cards are only the beginning of promotional materials. See my original bit about how information stored on pends tends to get more viewing per item than that stored on little scraps of disposable paper.

8. It doesn't have to be about 'out-doing' the rest, so much as who contributed most to the session. The person who made it the most fun. MVP. And that was just one option. you might just give it to the primary client. If they want to keep it, cool. If not, they can give it to another gamer at the table, or someone else entirely. And if people in the group take turns paying for your services, then those who hold the primary payer dice box may serve as a reminder of just who has yet to pay.

9. There is already a large wealth of pre-published materials for many games OTHER than 4th edition. Expanding your inventory of services for the cost of a free online PDF (some adventures are put out this way), and printing costs would open up your flexibility, and give you a wider customer base. I'm not suggesting you write custom modules out of the blue just to expand your selection, but you might as well look into things like "Heroes of Rokugan II" (another living campaign), or other systems with pre-published adventures. For the cost of a little bit of convenient experience, and a single book, you can add a whole additional campaign to your library.

10. If you're going with pre-gens, allow me to re-state that if you give a player (especially a spell-caster) time to get to know their character and the abilities ahead of the game session, this can cut down on the time you need to spend at-table helping the players with the rules for said character.

2 and 7. Well let's if I can raise the capital for such things first. My budget is already strained as it is. If I didn't already have most of the necessary materials before I started this, it would be financially impossible.

8. I feel it's best to keep things as simple as possible.

9. For now, I think it's best to focus primarily on the most popular and recognized system on the market. Other systems can be still be requested through the Customized Adventures service. It's not worth the time and resources at the moment to design or professionally enhance adventures with less popular systems in mind.

10. I recently discovered that one can make wiki pages as part of Webs.com service. If that's what I think it is then I can use that for the pre-gens.

CaptainCommando
2009-05-01, 11:38 PM
I wonder if I can break a record racking up RPGA Rewards points in a month...

BIG UPDATE

I've made some price changes that may be reasonable (lowered it for standard and extended original/published adventures, raised it for the second LFR module run on the same day).

I've decided to give a grand opening special for the month of May, conducting all sessions and performances at half price. This should help me get the experience, work history, and recommendations I'll need to make the business successful.

LFR nuts in or visiting NYC now have 1 month where they can very easily afford power leveling their characters.

MartinHarper
2009-05-02, 07:14 AM
I think AngelSword has a very good point, and you should definitely verify this with somebody you know that is legally trained.

I'd suggest just talking to WotC customer services anonymously to ask what their policy is on the matter. It's free, and it answers the important question, which is not "is this legal?", but rather "will I get a cease-and-desist?". He'd be asking for the policy, not for permission, because asking for permission would imply that he thinks he needs permission, and in any case customer services probably can't provide permission.
I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice

CaptainCommando
2009-05-04, 02:08 PM
I'm not selling/distributing a ripoff of their product. I'm selling a service that showcases and demos their product. I expect most of the game sessions to be played by new players or novices looking for an easy way to get into the game that fits with their schedules. I don't hurt their bottom line. I help it. There's no point to shutting me down since I'm not stealing their business but rather bringing them more customers.

TODAY'S UPDATE

I'm going to try and create business relationships with other companies and businesses to make this work.

I'm going to be offering promotion and advertisement to game companies in exchange for incentives such as product samples or discount coupons that I can put together as a "gift basket" for clientele.

I'm still waiting for the battlegraphs from Longtooth Studios to arrive but I'll start promoting their product today on the site.

Mongoose Publishing has expressed interest as well.

Local businesses such as chocolate/candy stores/companies and restaurants might bite at this as well.

This could increase the value of my services beyond quality of service and convenience of scheduling.

Following some advice, I've fixed my blog on the site to come off as more professional. I'll try to update my photo tonight.

KeresM
2009-05-04, 06:41 PM
You should probably start talking to folks who run DnD based sites and webcomics to discuss putting up banner ads. Quite a few will do it just for reciprocation.

AngelSword
2009-05-04, 09:17 PM
I'm selling a service that showcases and demos their product.

Well, this is exactly my point. They have (or have had in the past) paid positions within their company for that express purpose.