(3.5) Deathbots

[Deth Muncher]

Okay, so I've been thinking lately about what sort of crazy nonsense to do should I ever be presented with the opportunity to DM again, and after seeing a picture presented by Waspinator in one of those other threads that I can't find, and and unable to reproduce because I don't know how to do images on this forum, I will instead tell you what it was: Warforged Necromancer. This, combined with my love of Warhammer 40k, led me to start trying to devise a Necron-esque dealio for D&D. Which, then, is kinda why I turn to you guys, to help me brainstorm this. (And, y'know, if Waspinator should see this topic and would care to repost that picture, that'd be cool. :D)

Due to the massive Wall of Text Attack, I'm spoilering my ramblings.

RAMBLINS

Now, the main issue here is how does one go about making undead constructs? Technically, constructs are undead. And many of the immunities gained from being constructs and undead are the same. So how to go about that? Warforged are healed by Repair spells, as well as getting half healing from positive energy spells. Conceivably, then, you could just change that to being half-heals from negative energy and be fine.

But then there's the issue of Animating a Construct. Or rather, Re-Animating. Does that even work? It probably doesn't, although presumably DM ruling would say it could.

But what types of Warforged Undead could exist? My thought would be sort of an alternative version of the Warforged when trying to make them like certain existing undead. For example (and I'll post a picture once I learn how), the current set of M:tG has the plane of Esper, in which people get these metallic grafts (I'm away from cards, so I don't remember what it's called), which are sort of wirey and skeleton-like. So, perhaps, should a Warforged be "re-animated" as a Skeleton type (aka Necron-type), they should appear as such? And perhaps benefit from some of the undead creation feats automatically, like Iron Bones. I don't, however, see how most of the other undead types would apply. Incorporeal types obviously wouldn't work, unless they functioned like an Unbodied from the XPH. Zombies don't really make much sense, because Warforged don't have flesh. Mechanically, Golems would be the closest to that, except Golems have all sorts of immunities/special features that Zombies don't. Disease-carrying undead such as mummies and Ghouls kinda make sense, since the Warforged could have tainted materials or whatnot. Vampires...vampires don't quite make sense, although that'd certainly be interesting: The adventurers spot a Robobat, which, a la Transformers, shifts into a Warforged with a bite attack, which drains health...

Some mechanics need to be introduced into the game, if they don't already exist: Like the We'll Be Back roll from 40k for Necrons. For those unfamiliar, if you kill a Necron within range of one of their leaders with a Resurrection Orb, they have a chance to come back at the beginning of the next turn. I'd think that this would be something like a Fort Save if they reach 0 HP (since Constructs die at 0 HP, unless that changes for Warforged, which I think it does. Or for Undead, which I think it is too), and if they pass, they get up next turn with a minimal amount of health: maybe 1/4 total.

Then we come to the important question: How did all of this come about? I've got a few ideas, but I'd like your input too.
-An Epic Blighter set about blighting an area, which unbeknownst to him was actually above the site of one of those Warforged production sites as mentioned in the Eberron Campaign Setting
-Someone figured out how to bind Negative Energy elementals instead of Earth elementals to power Warforged.

And who is controlling all of these things? Perhaps a retooled Dread Necromancer Warforged? Aforementioned Blighter? Who knows.


So, this is kinda where I need you folks who are really great with the rules specifics to help me out: Chronos, I'm calling you out (if you randomly discover this thread and want to help, that is).

[Talic]

Well, you could start by limiting it to constructs with the "living" descriptor.

From there, apply the "Undead" descriptor, and it becomes "Undead (Augmented Construct).

From there, you seem to be on the right track.

[Deth Muncher]

Well, you could start by limiting it to constructs with the "living" descriptor.

From there, apply the "Undead" descriptor, and it becomes "Undead (Augmented Construct).

From there, you seem to be on the right track.

Oh, well there we go.

Lets see. Other than Warforged, are there any other Living Constructs?

[lord_khaine]

there are different kinds of warforget, but i belive thats it.

[Deth Muncher]

there are different kinds of warforget, but i belive thats it.

I think you're right. I know there's your basic Warforged, as well as the Warforged Titan and the Warforged Scout. As well, certain PrCs for Warforged change their type as well, like the Juggernaut and Reforged kinds of Warforged.

Something else I realized would be necessary is Artificers, since Artificers kinda, y'know, build constructs and do nifty things with them. But perhaps that can play into how these guys are made too? Like, perhaps some sort of crazy mix of Necromancy and Artifice? I dunno. It's a bit late for me, so my brain functions aren't quite there.

[Sinfire Titan]

Oh, well there we go.

Lets see. Other than Warforged, are there any other Living Constructs?

One. It's in the MM5, some type of living alchemical silver.

[Deth Muncher]

One. It's in the MM5, some type of living alchemical silver.

Curses, the one MM I DON'T have. I don't think...I'll go check.

[Zincorium]

All of them*.




*When the soulfused construct (sp?) template from Magic of Incarnum is applied to them.

[Deth Muncher]

One. It's in the MM5, some type of living alchemical silver.

Curses, the one MM I DON'T have. I don't think...I'll go check.

Nope. I've got 1-4. Crap.

Oh well. I'm sure the Alchemical Silver monster is in the WotC site somewhere or something.

But this actually brings up a decent question: are there any pre-existing constructs that would make sense to give un-life to?

Edit: @ Zincorium: Aha! Good point! I forgot about Incarnum. But on that note, getting Soulfused loses a lot of the Construct traits. Although, by then making it Undead, they gain a lot of those back...

[Sinfire Titan]

Edit: @ Zincorium: Aha! Good point! I forgot about Incarnum.

Would it be wrong of me to say I did too? I didn't take into account templated creatures, I just went with the one I knew was a pure Living Construct off the bat.

[Deth Muncher]

Would it be wrong of me to say I did too? I didn't take into account templated creatures, I just went with the one I knew was a pure Living Construct off the bat.

Hm, good point. I'd PREFER not to template things out, but Soulfused DOES make a certain degree of sense. It gives it a soul and lets it be Rezzable, which would thus mean its Reanimateable...

[Talic]

Indeed.

Also, don't be confused. Constructs are not undead. They're "never living".

Undead can only be applied to living creatures.

So how's this?
In an alternate incarnum-infused campaign world...

Artificers built warforged creations, true masters of their craft...

Mages saw, and were not pleased. These constructs could learn, and grow, unlike their golems. So they delved into research, and devised a method to imbue their more powerful constructs with a soul, giving a semblance of life to them.

However, a necromancer named <XXX> saw that they lost many of the traits that made them powerful. So, he raised one as an apprentice, teaching it the arts of magic. At the appropriate time, he transformed his golem into a lich, in an effort to retain its intellect, and still keep its body strong.

But things went awry... The meld between the negative energies, the elemental binding the golem, and free will, was too much. It killed its master, and died in the process. Ever since, the study has been a forbidden art, though less intelligent undead may very well be possible to be controlled through this practice.

[SurlySeraph]

http://media.photobucket.com/image/Warforged%20Necromancer/Ravingdork/WarforgedDarkPactWarlock.jpg

@Deth Muncher: you can post an image by putting (img)linktothewebaddressoftheimagegoeshere(/img). Replace the round brackets () with square brackets [] and you're done.

[Ascension]

Something else I realized would be necessary is Artificers, since Artificers kinda, y'know, build constructs and do nifty things with them. But perhaps that can play into how these guys are made too? Like, perhaps some sort of crazy mix of Necromancy and Artifice? I dunno. It's a bit late for me, so my brain functions aren't quite there.

If someone could homebrew a Dread Necro/Artificer dual progression prestige class without making it suck, that'd be pretty cool. You could give it some extra bonus features to help it create and control undead constructs.

[Deth Muncher]

If someone could homebrew a Dread Necro/Artificer dual progression prestige class without making it suck, that'd be pretty cool. You could give it some extra bonus features to help it create and control undead constructs.

That...actually WOULD be pretty badass. And I'd be a lot easier then having to do the entire campaign as Gestalt, although that WOULD simplify things a bit, at least for the BBEG, who could just be Art20//DN20.



EDIT: @ Talic - That's actually really good. Much better than my sleep deprived ramblings. But how to deal with the PCs and Incarnum? Should I let them take Incarnum levels for free? Or should I tell them there's a huge stigma against Incarnum users, since that's what's used to create the Soulfused constructs?

Also, I feel like this is pertinent information to the topic.
Construct vs Undead Type


* No Constitution score.
* Low-light vision.
* Darkvision out to 60 feet.
* Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
* Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, and necromancy effects.
* Cannot heal damage on their own, but often can be repaired by exposing them to a certain kind of effect (see the creature’s description for details) or through the use of the Craft Construct feat. A construct with the fast healing special quality still benefits from that quality.
* Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability damage, ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, or energy drain.
* Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects, or is harmless).
* Not at risk of death from massive damage. Immediately destroyed when reduced to 0 hit points or less.
* Since it was never alive, a construct cannot be raised or resurrected.
* Because its body is a mass of unliving matter, a construct is hard to destroy. It gains bonus hit points based on size, as shown on the table.
* Proficient with its natural weapons only, unless generally humanoid in form, in which case proficient with any weapon mentioned in its entry.
* Proficient with no armor.
* Constructs do not eat, sleep, or breathe.

Also,

* No Constitution score.
* Darkvision out to 60 feet.
* Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
* Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, and death effects.
* Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), as well as to fatigue and exhaustion effects.
* Cannot heal damage on its own if it has no Intelligence score, although it can be healed. Negative energy (such as an inflict spell) can heal undead creatures. The fast healing special quality works regardless of the creature’s Intelligence score.
* Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).
* Uses its Charisma modifier for Concentration checks.
* Not at risk of death from massive damage, but when reduced to 0 hit points or less, it is immediately destroyed.
* Not affected by raise dead and reincarnate spells or abilities. Resurrection and true resurrection can affect undead creatures. These spells turn undead creatures back into the living creatures they were before becoming undead.
* Proficient with its natural weapons, all simple weapons, and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
* Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Undead not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Undead are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
* Undead do not breathe, eat, or sleep.


As such, the overlapping qualities are:
* Darkvision out to 60 feet.
* Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
* Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, and death effects.
* Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), as well as to fatigue and exhaustion effects.
* Cannot heal normally without some sort of effect.
* Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability damage, ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, or energy drain.
* Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects, or is harmless).
* Neither eat, breathe or sleep.


tld;dr version: Constructs and Undead share almost ever special quality, with the exception of how to heal them, what they're proficient with, and then minor construct only things, like the extra HP, dying at 0HP, and un-rezzable, thus making Soulfused + Animate Dead almost make sense, since the only real thing you'd be losing would be Construct-Only traits.

Super Double EDIT: Actually, just realized they both die at 0HP.

[Waspinator]

Since it was requested:
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/2779/warforgednecromancerbyd.jpg

On a side note, I believe that Dragon 341 has stats for a bunch of construct familiars. Sadly, I don't think there is a toad. Let me check... Nope. There's these:
Copper Asp
Crystal Cat
Erudite Owl
Glass Dragonfly
Mercurial Spider
Razor Hawk
Salvage Rat

[Frosty]

Since it was requested:
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/2779/warforgednecromancerbyd.jpg

On a side note, I believe that Dragon 341 has stats for a bunch of construct familiars. Sadly, I don't think there is a toad. Let me check... Nope. There's these:
Copper Asp
Crystal Cat
Erudite Owl
Glass Dragonfly
Mercurial Spider
Razor Hawk
Salvage Rat

I bow down to your artistic talent. May I use that picture to depict my furture Warfroged characters should they be wizards or Dread Necromancers? :smallsmile:

Speaking of which, can Warforged take the Necropolitan feat?

[Deth Muncher]

I bow down to your artistic talent. May I use that picture to depict my furture Warfroged characters should they be wizards or Dread Necromancers? :smallsmile:

Speaking of which, can Warforged take the Necropolitan feat?

Actually, that picture is lurking around Deviant Art, so I believe it's free to use.

And thank you Waspinator!

As to the Necropolitan template...Dear God. That's a good question. That almost seems perfect...

[Waspinator]

No, I did not make that. I posted it before on this forum, though, and it was mentioned earlier in this thread. Here is the source:
http://d-mac.deviantart.com/art/Warforged-Necromancer-67143865

[Deth Muncher]

By the way, I think I want to start this campaign at around level 10. Most of my friends are way too impatient to go through low levels, and level 10 is, in my opinion, where the real fun of the game begins. What kind of critters can a level 10, semi-optimized group tangle with?

[InaVegt]

A key thing about 'forged: Any template that can be applied to living creatures can be applied to them, there are at least a couple of undead templates that apply to living creatures.

[Talic]

EDIT: @ Talic - That's actually really good. Much better than my sleep deprived ramblings. But how to deal with the PCs and Incarnum? Should I let them take Incarnum levels for free? Or should I tell them there's a huge stigma against Incarnum users, since that's what's used to create the Soulfused constructs?


Well, you could replace the core races with Incarnum races, meaning everyone starts with essentia.

You could offer everyone a bonus incarnum feat at level 1.

You could gestalt, and force the gestalt side to be an incarnum class..

Listed in scaling power level.

In any case, with the 1st 2, you could make Incarnum highly taboo. Think of it as the life force of the universe. People that delve past what everyone has, into the mysteries, well, they're tampering with the shared life bond between all beings. That has parallels to necromancy.

And if you want a BBEG concept? Someone trying to artificially bind that shared life energy to a specially designed construct, to corrupt it by making it undead, and to use the special qualities of the construct (which should be enterable, and the size of a tower) to channel negative energy into everything, corrupting the entire world at once.

Not sure if necrocarnum fits in there anywhere, I'm dusty on the mechanic, so I left it out. If the flavor and feel of it works, then by all means. Otherwise, treat it as a corruption.

[Deth Muncher]

Well, you could replace the core races with Incarnum races, meaning everyone starts with essentia.

You could offer everyone a bonus incarnum feat at level 1.

You could gestalt, and force the gestalt side to be an incarnum class..

Listed in scaling power level.

In any case, with the 1st 2, you could make Incarnum highly taboo. Think of it as the life force of the universe. People that delve past what everyone has, into the mysteries, well, they're tampering with the shared life bond between all beings. That has parallels to necromancy.

And if you want a BBEG concept? Someone trying to artificially bind that shared life energy to a specially designed construct, to corrupt it by making it undead, and to use the special qualities of the construct (which should be enterable, and the size of a tower) to channel negative energy into everything, corrupting the entire world at once.

Not sure if necrocarnum fits in there anywhere, I'm dusty on the mechanic, so I left it out. If the flavor and feel of it works, then by all means. Otherwise, treat it as a corruption.

I was actually just thinking of Necrocarnum as I was reading this. I like the idea of harvesting souls to power your abilities, especially when it eventually has the ability to drain one soul per round. Since the main bad guy I'm thinking of making would be some combo of Artificer, Dread Necro and possibly Necrocarnate, I would have it so that any souls he harvested could be used to power infusions as well. Actually, isn't there a mechanic about that in like BoVD, using souls for cutting down on XP cost?

I like the idea of having the giant corrupting construct. In my mind, I have this vision of an Enlarged Warforged Titan, spouting all sorts of crazy evil energies. In fact, it almost reminds me of a 40k Titan, which would totally fit with the theme of all of this anyway.

For the campaign world, I think I'll have it set in Eberron, although that would require me to go back and reread the history. One of the guys who would probably play in this campaign had actually mentioned wanting to be a Warforged. His one thing was that he wanted to be a Large Warforged. After hunting around, I came across the Warforged Charger, which...well, it's just beastly. Depending on how I rule what the total level adjustment is for him, he'll have between 2-5 class levels, which...wow. Yeah. It would destroy EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE.

[JellyPooga]

Necropolitan requires the Humanoid type, so no 'forged Necropolitan for you I'm afraid!

[Talic]

I was actually just thinking of Necrocarnum as I was reading this. I like the idea of harvesting souls to power your abilities, especially when it eventually has the ability to drain one soul per round. Since the main bad guy I'm thinking of making would be some combo of Artificer, Dread Necro and possibly Necrocarnate, I would have it so that any souls he harvested could be used to power infusions as well. Actually, isn't there a mechanic about that in like BoVD, using souls for cutting down on XP cost?

I'm not talking soul harvesting to power abilities. You're thinking the wrong way... Or at least, exactly opposite my line of thinking.

I'm talking a golem, infused with negative energy. Drawing as its power, the power of the negative energy plane...

And channeling it directly into the incarnum... Corrupting it. Tainting it.

After all, what happens when the soul energy of everything everywhere becomes infused primarily with negative energy?

Answer: Animate world. Anything with a soul becomes undead.

Once the party gets strong, they notice things... it takes longer to heal wounds... Everything seems bleak, cold. Herbivores begin feeding off the carcasses of their stablemates. Signs of the early stages of the corruption. From here, it's a race against time to piece together the clues, to find the construct, and destroy it, before the tainting becomes permanent.

[Deth Muncher]

I'm not talking soul harvesting to power abilities. You're thinking the wrong way... Or at least, exactly opposite my line of thinking.

I'm talking a golem, infused with negative energy. Drawing as its power, the power of the negative energy plane...

And channeling it directly into the incarnum... Corrupting it. Tainting it.

After all, what happens when the soul energy of everything everywhere becomes infused primarily with negative energy?

Answer: Animate world. Anything with a soul becomes undead.

Once the party gets strong, they notice things... it takes longer to heal wounds... Everything seems bleak, cold. Herbivores begin feeding off the carcasses of their stablemates. Signs of the early stages of the corruption. From here, it's a race against time to piece together the clues, to find the construct, and destroy it, before the tainting becomes permanent.

Again, this sounds like a really awesome idea!

Mechanically though, how should that healing thing work? Or should it? I mean, should I it be:
PC: Okay, I cast CLW. I rolled an 8. Heal 13 dam-
Me: No, heal 5 damage.

Or perhaps it takes longer to get the full effect?

PC: Okay, I cast CLW. I rolled an 8. Heal 13 dam-
Me: No. Heal 7 damage this round, 6 next round.

Or should the PCs even know what the rolls are? I could just roll the heals, and eventually they might pick up on their heal rolls rolling consistently lower and lower.

And, on a COMPLETELY unrelated note, if this campaign starts getting WAY too 40k, I'm throwing in Kythons.

[Deth Muncher]

So, I have the basic plot of the world set up right now, which I'm going to spoiler in the unlikely event that someone who would be in my campaign might stumble across this thread.



First Encounter

The PCs (who will start play at level 10) are already established adventurers by this point, having effectively helped eliminate all foreign threats to the Kingdom of X. At the time the story starts, the PC's will all be enjoying a nice dinner at their keep in the city of Y, when they'll be summoned by the king. As they enter, they'll see two messengers from the southern town of Z. The messengers will have JUST enough time to tell the PCs that their town has been laid waste to by some horrible thing when they'll both "die". And slowly, they will rise, their disguises wearing off and revealing: Two Warforged Chargers. The King's guard will obviously come and help out the PCs, but the PCs shouldn't have too hard a time dealing with them. From there, if they examine the bodies, they could see that the 'forged are different than normal, but without magical analysis, they won't know much. From there, the King can order the royal Artificer to come and take the bodies, to be dismantled for study.


From there, I'm a bit fuzzy on details. I know I want the PC's going to Xen'drik and possibly finding some Docent Components for Warforged and plugging them back into the Chargers they fought to figure out what they do. All the while, they'll be passing through areas and hearing stories of "The Dark Menace" and about odd goings on about the dead coming back to life, constructs going haywire, how there's less joy in the world, etc etc.

The final battle, however, I have somewhat planned in my mind already, but this is subject to change.


The PC's finally enter the domain of their foe, The Dark Menace. He at first appears to be a mere Warforged. He confronts them and obviously starts going through his evil speech of doom. He'll then summon a horde of decently sized minions, perhaps a few Reanimated Soulfused Iron Golems or somesuch. After the PCs dispatch them, he will charge at them, growing to Titan size - Warforged Titan, that is. The PC's will beat him down, eventually killing him. He'll explode in a nova of Negative energy, which will reanimate the Golems the PCs previously dispatched. Whilst the PC's are dispatching them again, TDM will, Dr. Manhattan-style, reform himself completely out of negative energy, and draw his former husk into himself, re-plating and becoming more badass than ever (possibly with one angel wing sprouting from his back, in true JRPG style). He will be accompanied by X Shadesteel Golems, depending on the party's level. After dispatching all of these once again, TDM will reform into the game's titular monster: a dragon. Probably some sort of horrible negative energy dragon of some sort. The PCs will again dispatch him, this time for good.

Or something like that.

[Chronos]

Wow, sorry I noticed this thread too late. All I was going to contribute is the observation that living constructs are living, and most undead templates can be applied to "any living creature", but InaVegt beat me to it.

Quoth Talic:
You could gestalt, and force the gestalt side to be an incarnum class..That's actually not much of a restriction, since the incarnum classes work really well on one side of a gestalt. A skillmonkey, for instance, could have high skill points from the first side and high insight bonuses from Incarnate, and a warrior-type could get full BAB with Totemist natural weapons.

On looking over that soulfused template, I wonder... The template says that it adds +1 LA, but it can only be applied to Int -- constructs, and everything with Int -- is LA --. Is there any way around this, to make a soulfused construct playable?

[Deth Muncher]

So, I've got 3-4 people lined up that want to play in this campaign so far. The first guy keeps making new character concepts, but he's pretty pinned on a rogue. A Halfling Rogue, at that. The second guy is going to play a Half-Giant Barbarian. To tell you the kind of person this guy is, he asked me if he could have a pet, which I agreed to. I looked in the Arms and Equipment listing on pets, and no sooner had I said "Fire Elemental" then he jumped on it. So his guy has a tiny Fire Elemental pet. As to third and fourth guys, they're still tenative, although one guy had mentioned wanting to play a Cleric, and the other guy, who knows.

[Doresain]

the lord of blades and "the dark menace" should either team up or duke it out for control of the warforged population

i just got this sweet image of a necron lord fighting tLoB in the middle of some desolate location :smallsmile:

[Waspinator]

I feel I should mention Dragonmech's concept of the "Smoking Dead". Let's just say they're the logical end result of a setting where steampunk technology and zombie-creating necromancy both exist.

[Deth Muncher]

@Dor - Actually, after having read up a bit on the Lord of Blades, I'm tempted to just have the Dark Menace be the Lord of Blades. Although I doubt it would make sense for him to be a caster...I dunno.

@Waspinator: I'm assuming they're tecnhozombies? Like, zombies that are animated mostly by motors as opposed to negative energy?

[Ascension]

@Waspinator: I'm assuming they're tecnhozombies? Like, zombies that are animated mostly by motors as opposed to negative energy?

Pretty much. I can't believe I forgot to mention them earlier in the thread.

[Waspinator]

That's basically right. If I remember right, it basically lets you create more of them per spell casting than normal zombies since you don't need to use as much necromantic energy per zombie.

[Deth Muncher]

That's basically right. If I remember right, it basically lets you create more of them per spell casting than normal zombies since you don't need to use as much necromantic energy per zombie.
My God. I'll have to go find rules for them.

[Waspinator]

They're from Dragonmech:
http://www.goodman-games.com/WW17600preview.html
It's new game mechanics for mechs and whatnot are a little clunky at times, but the fluff is awesome. Basically, you start with a pretty standard d20, LOTR-y world. Then the moon's orbit begins to decay. Tidal effects on both the earth and the moon increase, causing the ocean movements on the earth to become bizarre. But the real problem is that the tidal effect on the moon causes it to begin to tear apart. Whole chunks of lunar rock and soil rain on the earth, killing much of the plantlife and driving civilizations underground. That's about the moment when some dwarves discover steam power, start an industrial revolution, and within a couple of decades are using giant steam-powered robots to retake the surface. The robots serve two purposes: shielding from lunar debris still coming down, and to fight things like lunar dragons. Unfortunately for Highpoint (the name of this setting's earth), the moon was populated by things like lunar dragons that aren't too happy about their home disintegrating and want Highpoint for themselves. Therefore, every major civilization left on the planet starts building mechs to fight these dragons. The elves even create what are basically giant, piloted wood golems! There's even a spell called "Animate Gears" that functions almost the same as Animate Dead except you turn scrap metal into crude golems rather than corpses into undead. Oh, and let's not forget the Steamborgs! And the Iron Man style powered armor that comes in three varieties: steam powered, clockwork powered, and as a magical construct that you wear like a miniature mech.
Misc pics:

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/9252/dragonmechstuff.jpg

[Zincorium]

Yeah, DragonMech was probably my favorite 3rd party purchase for D&D.

[Talic]

Again, this sounds like a really awesome idea!

Mechanically though, how should that healing thing work?
. . .
Or should the PCs even know what the rolls are? I could just roll the heals, and eventually they might pick up on their heal rolls rolling consistently lower and lower.

I'd go with no, the PC's don't get the knowledge of the rolls without a spellcraft check to see something's wrong (DC=Spellcraft DC to identify the spell +5).

The penalty? My line of thinking? It's progressive.
Week 1? -1 hp healed per die of the spell (Cure light wounds = -1... Cure Moderate = -2... etc)

Week 2? -2 Hp per die.

Week 3? -3 Hp per die.

Week 4? Apply Tomb-Tainted Soul to everyone in the campaign., and apply the -4 penalty to inflict spells.

Week 5? -3 penalty per die to inflict spells.

Week 6? -2 penalty per die to inflict spells.

Week 7? -1 penalty per die to inflict spells.

Week 8? No penalty to inflict spells.

Week 9? +1 Bonus to all healing from inflict spells.

Week 10? Everything's undead.

Once the problem is stopped, the penalties go away at half the speed that they were gained.

[Deth Muncher]

@Everyone who mentioned Dragonmech: Wow. I...really need those books. Like a lot.

@Talic: I'm kinda nervous about imposing secret penalties on the players. ESPECIALLY if they end up going to the Mournland, where healing doesn't work anyway.

EDIT: Also, I was looking up Lord of Blades in...Five Nations I think? And he's only a CR13 encounter. That...fails. A lot. Why is he such a weak encounter?

[Chronos]

EDIT: Also, I was looking up Lord of Blades in...Five Nations I think? And he's only a CR13 encounter. That...fails. A lot. Why is he such a weak encounter?All of the established NPCs in Eberron are low-mid levels. They wanted a different sort of world than Forgotten Realms, where the bartenders are epic.

[Waspinator]

Yeah, compare him to other humanoid leaders and whatnot. In terms of challenges that aren't demons or some other monster, he's one of the tougher humanoids in Eberron.

[Talic]

@Everyone who mentioned Dragonmech: Wow. I...really need those books. Like a lot.

@Talic: I'm kinda nervous about imposing secret penalties on the players. ESPECIALLY if they end up going to the Mournland, where healing doesn't work anyway.

EDIT: Also, I was looking up Lord of Blades in...Five Nations I think? And he's only a CR13 encounter. That...fails. A lot. Why is he such a weak encounter?

Secret? Information control is part of the game. The party hears a throaty growling from the back of a cave... What is it? The fun is in the not knowing, and the discovery.

If you trust your players, announce the penalty. When they ask why (and they will), then tell them that their characters need to find out... If they even know something's amiss. Call for a spellcraft on every casting. After week 4? Allow knowledge (religion) to pick up the undead aspects becoming prevalent in the world.

Give them clues... But make them WORK for them. Make them discover what's going on.

For example, a successful check may reveal, "your character is convinced there's nothing amiss with the spell. There's no curse or spell directly affecting it.. however, its effect is being weakened... When it hits the target.

Beating it by 10 or more would reveal... "A small amount of the positive energy seems to actually be damaging the target, and the remainder of the spell is weakened as it counteracts that."

Beating by 20? "Some of the bruises left after the healing look very similar to the damage caused to a living body by an inflict wounds spell... Or a dead one by a cure spell."

[Deth Muncher]

@ Chronos and Waspinator - Okay, well that certainly makes sense then. And actually, as I went back and reread his passage, the Lord of Blades always has three of his high ranking minions with him anyway, so I'm going to bet that even if he and his homonculi are only a CR13 encounter, them plus three melee-specific Warforged would be considerably higher.

@ Talic: Once again, that's not such a bad idea. I might not announce it to them, but once the spell starts being weakened, I'll call for a Spellcraft check each time it's cast. And it should probably apply to abilities like a Pally's Lay on Hands as well, or any sort of burst healing.

Also, something else I came across when reading these books at 3AM: something which if I remember correctly is called a Wondrous Machine. It's a machine that bends reality. So concievably, that'd be a great plot device (no pun intended), so that while the PCs are busy trying to destroy it to reverse the effects and become fully alive again, they could get sneak-ganked by The Dark Menace. Or something.

[Deth Muncher]

So, I've got an updated character list. We're going to try to finalize everything later today (as it's currently around 1AM on the US East Coast), but the party should be something like as follows:

Halfling Rogue: Basically, sneaks, disables traps, hides REALLY well, and has lots of random utility items. This player isn't what I'd call a powergamer, but he definitely understands the ins and outs of the game. He may not know EVERY rule for everything, but he knows how things ought to work.

Half-Giant Barbarian: The beatstick. He beats things up. A lot. Fairly straightforward, as many barbarians are. He's got a Tiny Fire Elemental pet, which to avoid suspicion he's got in a bullseye lantern.

?? Cleric: This guy is still iffy on whether or not he's going to be in this game or not, but he'll most likely end up playing Healbot. Which actually works great, considering the high amount of undead in the game, which means he gets to go Inflictbot on them. Er...yeah, you know what I mean.

?? Paladin: This guy had such a great character concept, I just had to let him in - basically, he wants to be a reformed BBEG minion. He's going to be LG, and he won't do anything to hurt the party or anything, but he occasionally has to be reminded by his (extraordinarily forgiving) god that he can't do things sometimes. And has to refrain from such indulgences like yelling "Good for the Good God!" as he rushes into battle.

?? Caster: Another iffy guy, because he's never actually played a caster before, but he said he'd be willing to go for whatever. If it ends up that our cleric player doesn't want to play, this guy will probably go for that.

And that's about it for now. Thankfully, they've got two divine people, so taking on hordes and hordes of Zeds won't be quite as tough as if they only had, say, fighters.

As to how the plot will advance (warning: Wall of Text Attack!)...

Basically, after the first encounter, the PCs will have to search around for information. Eventually, they'll find out that they have to travel to Xen'drik, since the ancient Giants seem to be the ones who invented the Warforged technology. In either Five Nations or PG to Eberron, it mentions the possible existence of "Dark Warforged," which is what I believe I'll have the Dark Menace end up being. In any event, they'll go to Stormreach, (either by air or by sea. If by air, they may be fine, but if by sea, they'll have to deal with...er, those things. Sahaugains, or however you spell it) and find out that there's lots of ancient ruins lying about. They'll end up going to a ziggurat in the jungle, which unbeknownst to them will be inhabited by drow. They'll crawl through the dungeon, and come upon a docent component. Unless anyone plays an Artificer or a Warforged, they'll have to go back to Home Base (I'm still not sure where I'm going to put that), to talk to the king's artificer, who will have by that point been able to reverse engineer the two Chargers they fought in the beginning, and will apply the docent to one of them, thus gaining all sorts of spiffy knowledge an such. By this point, some of Talic's suggested negatives will start applying to curative magic, which if the PCs are keen they might pick up on, and they'll have to talk to people about that. Probably a combination of the High Priest of some church and the King's Artificer. At that point, the PCs will be hearing more and more of the Dark Menace, and will probably want to try to find him. Any research they get will point towards the Mournland. I haven't got all the ideas mapped for that, but eventually the PCs will come upon the Lord of Blades. Presumably, they will defeat him. At that point, the Dark Menace will show up, projecting a force bubble (once I figure out how to do that), and resuscitate LoB using crazy Necrocarnum powers, which will introduce the PCs to Incarnum. From THERE, the PCs will head back home, and talk to the Artificer. He'll tell them to head to Zilargo to investigate the huge library there about it. They'll go there, do said investigation, and find out that Incarnum is primarily used in places away from normal magical traditions. Remote places. Eventually, enough clues will point to the deserts of Xen'drik, where they'll encounter the kindly Sand Giants. They'll have stories about crazy, not quite undead, not quite machine things coming from somewhere in the desert. The party will eventually stumble upon a pyramid: Dark Menace's hideout! (Well, one of.) They'll have all sorts of fun fighting mechanical versions of all your favorite stereotypical Egyptian foes: Mummies, statues, etc. I may even have them fight a mechanical Crawling Apocalypse outside, using a kitbash of those stats and the mechanisquid in Five Nations. They'll fight their way down, until they get to the Dark Menace himself! He, of course, will 'port away, but not before leaving more Zedforged, and a Shadesteel Golem (assuming it's CR appropriate). Once they dispatch them, they'll find a second docent component. Back home they go, and they'll give it to the Artificer, who will use it on Warforged 2. Also, by this point, major penalties will be in effect on cure spells, thus probably scaring the PCs more. With both Chargers now being controlled by their docent components, the PCs will now have two sources of knowledge not otherwise attainable. From there, the PCs will be sent to Argonassen to try and enlist the help of the dragons, or at least get some idea of what the hell is going on. The dragons will inform the PCs (probably after proving themselves worthy of gaining the knowledge) that the Dark Menace has actually been spotted in the area, and has not only been corrupting the dragons with his crazy evil magickz, but has been learning from dragons he's killed and rezzed how to apply draconic traits to his minions. Cue: Half Dragon Warforged. The PCs will hunt him down, having to deal with another major threat: Dracoliches. Well, probably just one. Having defeated the Dracolich and scared away the Dark Menace again, the PCs will discover one of those Wondrous Machines. Specifically, one that's been draining life from everyone. They will, of course, try to destroy it, and will end up doing so with the aid of the dragons. But with the knowledge of this machine, they'll come to the (correct) assumption that there are more. When they get back, however, they'll be coming home to mass chaos, as the machine has caused a good portion of the populace to have become undead. With the machine destroyed, there will be no more citizens turning undead, but that doesn't revert the people yet, even with the machine destroyed. They will have to quell the insanity, either by slaughtering the undead citizens (who are, by the way, not exceptionally evil. Their life is just powered by negative energy instead of positive) or successfully convince everyone to stop fighting and let the populace revert to their natural selves. The King's Artificer, with the bits of the machine, can reverse engineer it so as to accelerate process to get everyone back to normal. It is at this point that the Lord of Blades will resurface, now as a Zedforged. The bubble projected around the city will keep all of the Zedforged out of the PC's home kingdom, but not others. From there, it's a race against time to try and learn as much about them, and just how Incarnum really works. The PCs will most likely end back up in Zilargo's Library, which will of course be the Dark Menace's next place to attack, since it contains the secrets of how to destroy him, although they're heavily encoded and in an ancient language that no one would understand...except someone (or thing) that has been around for that long. Like, say, the docent components in the Chargers? The PCs will head back to their home with as much of the ancient data as possible, which they'll get to the Chargers.

tl;dr version: That's most of how I'd like the plot to go. Mind you, that's always bound to change with how the PCs work, but it's a rough estimate. And all of that was entirely off the top of my head, so I'll probably have to go back and refine it.

[Talic]

Sounds good. Just remember. In Eberron, they're Dark Elves. Not Drow. ;)

[Deth Muncher]

Sounds good. Just remember. In Eberron, they're Dark Elves. Not Drow. ;)

So wait, they should be riding dinosaurs and commanding hydras?

Wait, no, in Eberron, the halflings ride dinosaurs.

Which reminds me actually, my rogue player wants to have a dinosaur mount. How do I handle this? There's a racial feat that, assuming he meets the pre-reqs, gives him bonuses to riding a preferred dinosaur. But, I mean, how does he get one? How much does it cost? The only mention I saw of this was when I saw that crazy t-rex in armor type thing in one of the Eberron books, which said that since it's so rare it'd cost quite a lot of money.

EDIT: K'duh, Mounts and Special Gear, p.121 of Eberron Campaign Setting.

[Talic]

Ad Hoc it. If he's a halfling, use the Fleshraker from the MM3. I'd say 1000g would be good for a battle trained Fleshraker dinosaur.

As for the other, I may be getting my sources mixed up. I might be thinking Scarred Lands.

[Seffbasilisk]

Only way I know of stacking undead and construct is to go Warforged Dread Necromancer 20 to gain Lichdom.

[Deth Muncher]

Only way I know of stacking undead and construct is to go Warforged Dread Necromancer 20 to gain Lichdom.

Speaking of that, I was looking at all the Necrocarnate stuff as well as the Dread Necro stuff, and noticed that a few things have very similar effects, such as one of the soulmelds that lets you fire enervating lazorz/the DN's charnel touch ability after a while. Conceivably, I should be able to kitbash the two classes together. I mean, there are certain parts of the Dread Necromancer class that are redundant to Warforged, like Fortification, or Mental Bastion, since it already has them. I think that if I drop certain features of each class, it'll be good enough. I'll eventually post him up in the Homebrew section, although I've got no way of calculating his CR.

EDIT: Actually, I'll probably just post him here, since, well, I'm not really creating anything new, I'm just combining stuff.

[Deth Muncher]

Hey, so here's another random question which is pertinent to my campaign idea. The Artificer entry mentions that they can learn infusions that they come in contact with with a DC20+Spell Level check. It also mentions that some infusions could be hidden in Xen'drik. My question is, what infusions COULD be hidden there? I mean, which make sense? Or should they be ones which aren't normally infusions? I get the feeling they ought to be of a fairly high power level, so as to warrant being quest-centered things. Because even if the party ends up not having an Artificer - although there's a heavy chance that it will - there's always the Royal Artificer, who could require certain infusions for whatever.

[Talic]

Temporary Vorpal.

Nuff said.

[Deth Muncher]

Temporary Vorpal.

Nuff said.

That sounds game-breakingly delicious.

[Deth Muncher]

Hey, so, update time. The party is nearly complete, so I figure I should tell you all what it's going to be:

-Halfling Rogue- This character is played by the guy who's house we'll be using for gaming. His character idea is very much the "sneaky sneaky stab" kind of rogue, but true to the Eberron Halflings of the Talenta Plains, he's got a dinosaur mount.

-Half-Giant Barbarian- We've discussed this one before, but for completeion's sake: He's the big, hulking bruiser of the party. And being a half-giant will give him sway in Xen'drik, at least presumably. Has a Tiny Fire Elemental pet.

-Kalashtar Paladin of Freedom- This player is known around my area for playing odd characters that always end up good at what they do (he played a Vanaraa Shaman in my Oriental Adventures campaign a while back). I expect good things from this character.

-Human Artificer- The guy playing this character is new to the game, which is okay in my opinion because I'm not a seasoned vet yet either. His character concept made me laugh (LOL IRL, if you will): In fact, I can't even summarize this character. Here's what the player sent me as his concept:
Name:
Age: Late 20s/Early 30s
Birthplace: Sharn, Breland
Race: Human

Background: [Name] was born to the Dragonmarked House Cannith in the [late
960s/early 970s] in Sharn, Breland. Born to a wealthier branch of the
(rather extended) family and born with the greater Mark of Making, he
excelled at fabricating new items.

Tied in closely with this ability was his understanding of business. Rather
than being able to just make items, [Name] can also sell them quite
effectively when necessary, not to mention being able to put deals together
to get the parts he needs to fabricate them.

The combination of fabrication abilities and business acumen proved to be
quite a combination; [Name] made quite a name for himself working out deals
at a young age, and advanced quickly within his family as a result...even if
the methods used to achieve those deals weren't always the most scrupulous.
It should be noted in line with this that, if one will pardon the pun, he
made a killing during the closing years of the Last War with little regard
to nationality.

Personality: [Name] is something of a wheeler-dealer. Given a client and a
product, he can usually put the two together. [Name] is an aggressive
negotiator; he can be a bit confrontational at times, and is very stubborn
in his views...or at least, he gives off that impression, working to convert
others to his views.

His business practices have always pushed the envelope; in public, of
course, he is totally respectable, but in private he's more than willing to
twist arms and apply a lot of pressure on targets.

It is worth noting that [Name] is not exactly religious; rather, he has
tended towards Arcane rather than Divine magic in his work, at times
bordering on the total exclusion of the latter in his interests.

Ultimately, the driving force behind [Name] is a drive for money and power.
He's not actively evil, mind you, and there are many lines he will not cross
that are well-defined in his mind; however, when it comes down to it, with
the exception of these lines his driving motivations are profit and power.

Description: Standing about 6' tall, [Name] has short black hair. He is
thin, not excessively muscular, and usually fairly well-dressed.

---------------------------

Some notes: Yes, this character would make a good Villain With Good
Publicity...except for the fact that while he'll twist arms, I think he
would refuse to kick the proverbial dog due to the fact that he -does- try
to keep a very good public image.

The best justification for his inclusion in a party is this: He's willing to
bend a lot of rules to achieve his objectives...just not -his- rules (which
he has), and he's also a good negotiator. It makes for an interesting
combination...but his motivation for being in the party is going to likely
be profit after some form or another (though this has broad definitions;
information is power of a sort, too, after all).

-??? ???- Our last player has yet to come up with his character yet, since he's currently taking exams for his master's degree from college. However, I told him that he could pretty much make whatever character he wanted, although I told him certain characters I might like to see in the party that aren't yet.

As well, I made up a primer for them, which I will include below.
Hail adventurer! You are one of Breland’s mightiest adventurers, being part of an elite task force to King Boranel’s special military organization, The King’s Citadel. The Last War ended a little over two years ago, and the world is still at unrest. Although life continues on, strange occurrences have become the norm. However, some things are stranger than others, and there are machinations going on which could unravel the entire world of Eberron as you know it. King Boranel has asked that you be present at his castle in Wroat, as an emergency meeting has been called by foreign dignitaries that have recently come to the area. He did not say which country these dignitaries were from, only that you should not appear to be “combat ready:” he wants to pass you off as his counselors, so as not to make the dignitaries think he’s being hostile to them.

[imp_fireball]

If warforged can be healed with positive energy then chances are they are some sort of good aligned (innocent at birth at least) or perhaps imbued with positive/arcane energy early on (though however arcane can be positive, I haven't a clue). Really, you could easily create an evil warforged and just say that positive energy damages it while negative heals.

Because constructs aren't alive, it could go hand in hand with 'good/evil'. That's really all there is.