Rawhide purchasing question

[zeratul]

Hey playground. So I've been planning to make a shield for a while now and want to do it by using wood reinforced by rawhide in a way sort of similar to the Germanic barbarian form of sheild-making. My question is where exactly can I buy rawhide? I'd be looking for a decent sized /sheet or round or an entire hide. Also how expensive is it? If anyone knows where I can purchase it at a reasonable price that'd be fantastic. I have no preference as to what type it is but if anyone knows which type of animal rawhide would work best, please recommend it to me :smallsmile:.

[InaVegt]

I'd suggest PMing him and asking what he wants, if he's for sale at all.

[Destro_Yersul]

I don't know about actual Rawhide, but it's possible to get relatively inexpensive leather in full hides. Generally only one side is smoothed as well, so if you wanted the rough look for it all you'd have to do is turn the leather over.

[Rawhide]

I'm sorry, but, I'm not for sale. You're welcome to hire me to plan, design, implement and support your technology infrastructure, but you cannot buy me.

[reorith]

as a vegan, i'm horrified that you'd use skin to make an obsolete implement.

as a dude that hit a deer at 75mph, you're more than welcome to it. it is on my neighbor's lawn. they won't be back until wednesday.

[zeratul]

as a vegan, i'm horrified that you'd use skin to make an obsolete implement.

as a dude that hit a deer at 75mph, you're more than welcome to it. it is on my neighbor's lawn. they won't be back until wednesday.

that would be awesome for venison purposes alone, howver due to the size of a dear, distance, and shipping reasons I think I'll pass.:smalltongue:

[reorith]

that would be awesome for venison purposes alone, howver due to the size of a dear, distance, and shipping reasons I think I'll pass.:smalltongue:

how close are you to central md? and if you want to eat week old roadkill, be my guest.

[Mauve Shirt]

Psh. In Central MD he could just run over his own deer. They're everywhere!

[zeratul]

how close are you to central md? and if you want to eat week old roadkill, be my guest.

Not close at all haha. Also I'd only be interested in the meat if it where relatively new and/or well stored.

[DrizztFan24]

As a dabbler in the arts leather I can tell you that regualr leather and rawhide are two totally different things. Rawhide is a translucent brittle substance. Leather is a stiff fibrous sheet. If you wanted to make the shield the rawhide would be to protect from slashes and some puncturing. You need to soak the rawhide before you apply it to the shield. Otherwise I can direct you to a leatherworker's forum that will be able to help you, with armoring experts available, and also I would encourage you to google "Tandy leather" and order some online.

[zeratul]

As a dabbler in the arts leather I can tell you that regualr leather and rawhide are two totally different things. Rawhide is a translucent brittle substance. Leather is a stiff fibrous sheet. If you wanted to make the shield the rawhide would be to protect from slashes and some puncturing. You need to soak the rawhide before you apply it to the shield. Otherwise I can direct you to a leatherworker's forum that will be able to help you, with armoring experts available, and also I would encourage you to google "Tandy leather" and order some online.

If you could direct me to the leather working forum that would be fantastic. Do you know how long I should soak the rawhide for by any chance? And do you know what I should use to attach it to the wood?

[Felixaar]

Not sure if this is what you're after, but I reccomend checking our Brettun's Village Leather (http://www.brettunsvillage.com/leather/). I've not yet bought anything from there, but they have a funny newsletter.

[Lorn]

Dark Ages historical re-enactor here.

Rawhide, to be honest, is most easily found in dog chews. Really. Generally a sort of stick of the stuff tied off at both ends, maybe a foot long. You probably want two or so of these.

To use it, soak it in warm water until it is nice and pliable. You then want to stretch it TIGHTLY over the area you want it and nail it down. Do one side, then fold it over the edge and do the other (I take it you're edging the shield with the stuff?)

It will take a long time to soak enough; we normally have it going for several hours. Best to keep adding more warm water every so often. You can tell when it's done because you can unpick the knots at the end and unwrap the chew as a whole.

The water will be absolutely horrible when this is finished. For fun, get someone to drink it...

Also easiest to do the nailing with two people so you have someone to hold it.

Could you grab a picture of the style of shield you're looking at making? I think i have a good idea of it, but would appreciate clarification.

If you have more questions then please feel free to PM me. My local group has pretty much finished making shields for our six or so newbies, and I am fairly well-versed in their creation - and how to make other items, like spears and (to some extent) chainmail in the event you are interested in this.

[zeratul]

Well I had intended to do it using a 26 inch round of rawhide and a 24 or 25 inch wide circular shield. Shape wise I'm just going for a basic round shape and I already know the type of wood I'm using. for attaching the rawhide to the shield, should I have any type of glue or adhesive in use or just the rawhide itself and then nails? Also as I'm making the shield out of multiple planks attached to each other then carved into a circle, is there any specific method of attaching the planks you'd recommend? I've been intending to use synthetic wood glue or animal glue depending.

[UncleWolf]

*munches on a rawhide dog chew*

They honestly are not that bad.

[Lorn]

Well I had intended to do it using a 26 inch round of rawhide and a 24 or 25 inch wide circular shield.
If you use the dog chew method then you'll find that you don't get a simple round edge.

We normally end up with three or four lengths. These go on as normal, and then shorter bits go over the connections to strengthen it and make it a bit safer.


Shape wise I'm just going for a basic round shape and I already know the type of wood I'm using.
Easy enough. Which wood?


for attaching the rawhide to the shield, should I have any type of glue or adhesive in use or just the rawhide itself and then nails?
Just nail it. Carpet tacks are what we use, I think. Never actually been the one to go and get them... you'll find that it will take far too long to glue, to be honest.


Also as I'm making the shield out of multiple planks attached to each other then carved into a circle, is there any specific method of attaching the planks you'd recommend? I've been intending to use synthetic wood glue or animal glue depending.
Not sure about this one - I'll be honest, we tend to use plywood because the shields break and it is both easier and cheaper not to use planks. Depends how important authenticity is, the two DO look very similar. Also depends on how thick these planks are...

Also, just checking. Have you got a shield boss? How were you planning on making the basic wooden bit of the shield? Paint?

Also, the really important bit: what are you going to use it for? Display, or...?

[zeratul]

If you use the dog chew method then you'll find that you don't get a simple round edge.

We normally end up with three or four lengths. These go on as normal, and then shorter bits go over the connections to strengthen it and make it a bit safer.

If using the round of rawhide you would get a simple round edge that way basically right?

Easy enough. Which wood?

Alder planks

Just nail it. Carpet tacks are what we use, I think. Never actually been the one to go and get them... you'll find that it will take far too long to glue, to be honest.

Yeah I know nailing would be quicker but I don;t really mind lettingthe glue dry for a few days. It just sounds like it would make the sheild break less easily than it would with nails


Not sure about this one - I'll be honest, we tend to use plywood because the shields break and it is both easier and cheaper not to use planks. Depends how important authenticity is, the two DO look very similar. Also depends on how thick these planks are...
Yeah, well given the design I'm using and that I like the authenticity aspect. The planks probably wouldn't be particularly thick, probably an inch thick at the most but most likely a bit less


Also, just checking. Have you got a shield boss? How were you planning on making the basic wooden bit of the shield? Paint?
I was planning on not using the boss just because it seems like extra work and such. My plan for the wooden part is to take multiple alder planks, glue or in some other way connect them together, get a 24-25 inch circular sheet of paper or something,attach it temporarily to the planks, carve around it to get a 24-25 inch wide circular wooden basic shield, then the rawhide, then paint it, attach the grip to it, etc. How important is it to have a boss on it?


Also, the really important bit: what are you going to use it for? Display, or...?

I'm making it partially for the hell of it, partially for use when be and my friends fight with boffer weapons, and stuff like that. Trying to make it authentically and well though so that it;s a good quality shield.

[Lorn]

If using the round of rawhide you would get a simple round edge that way basically right?
Well, the thing is, first you have to get a piece of rawhide to the right dimensions and then you have to fit it, and you have to do it all at once. Breaking it up with the four strips bit means that you can do it in stages - rawhiding really isn't fun. Plus, in the event one bit breaks it is easily replaced.


Yeah I know nailing would be quicker but I don;t really mind lettingthe glue dry for a few days. It just sounds like it would make the sheild break less easily than it would with nails

I'm a reenactor. My society use real metal weapons. Blunt, but real metal weapons nonetheless. Yes, shields do break. However, this tends to take some time, and you really aren't focusing on the rawhide unless you use an axe - at which point you're hooking around the shield to open it up.
Using boffer weapons it really should not break.

For example, my first shield was used for a period of four years. Two of these were proper battlefield use, the other two were pre-battlefield training (too young to go on properly.) So say three years normal use. I could have kept using it for longer, but wanted the boss to make a smaller shield and had a brand new shield anyway - we use black shields until we're 18 so people know we likely are not as good.

In this four year period it took full swing daneaxe hits. When a daneaxe is swung properly the head can reach speeds of maybe 90MPH. It took axes. It took spears. It took swords, langseaxes, scramseaxes. It was abused for three solid years. It even took a sharp spear at one point... and it survived.

Use nails about a centimetre and a half apart and it should be OK.


Yeah, well given the design I'm using and that I like the authenticity aspect. The planks probably wouldn't be particularly thick, probably an inch thick at the most but most likely a bit less
This thing is going to be heavy if the wood is that thick - our shields end up being under an inch thick, boss and handle not included. A heavy shield is horrible to use in one hand, trust me.


I was planning on not using the boss just because it seems like extra work and such. My plan for the wooden part is to take multiple alder planks, glue or in some other way connect them together, get a 24-25 inch circular sheet of paper or something,attach it temporarily to the planks, carve around it to get a 24-25 inch wide circular wooden basic shield, then the rawhide, then paint it, attach the grip to it, etc. How important is it to have a boss on it?
Let me put it this way.

The boss is where the handle normally goes in a typical Saxon/Viking shield. Your hand ends up inside the boss. If the shield is a kiteshield, then it's a different matter.

Having a handle on the same sort of level as the body allows you to block more easily and means the shield will move around in your grip less. It also means that it is easier to store.

In the event you decide to use a boss, I can give you links to various sites that will sell you metal ones. And metal other things, for that matter...


I'm making it partially for the hell of it, partially for use when be and my friends fight with boffer weapons, and stuff like that. Trying to make it authentically and well though so that it;s a good quality shield.
Right, cool. Strength is likely a lesser issue than it is for us.

Here's the process we use.

Get wood to be used. Use a jigsaw to cut it into appropriate shapes after sizing to the person/what the person wants - due to how we use them this is a large concern. Details on that shortly. At this stage we also cut out the handle area - sometimes we leave some of the original wood to serve as a handle, sometimes we do not.

Use PVA glue to attach three sheets of canvas to the front and two to the back (give or take a couple depending on what the shield is to be used for/in the event it is a destructoshield and meant to be annihilated in a showfight.)

Allow to dry until really dry.

Attach handle and boss using rivets.

Paint as desired - we use wall paint, in authentic colours.

Leave to dry.

Rawhiding process begins - soak rawhide, when pliable attach using nails. Nail one edge to the front, then fold it back over and nail it to the back.

Attach strap to shield after making strap (this is easy - leather and a buckle, attached with rivets.)


As far as use goes... everyone in the society starts off with the shield slung using a two handed spear. Safety issues, really - you can't break someone too badly like this compared to, say, an axe. As such it is important that you have an appropriately sized shield.

Singlehanded weapons mean that you hold the shield in one hand and realistically you don't want it slung. You want it a distance from your body and preferably laid across your forearm. At this point a handle does not need to be practically flush with the shield, as it will not inconvenience you when using a slung shield - though you will likely have one flush with shield until you are able to use a singlehanded spear, as a spear is the best weapon on the battlefield. I kid you not, a spear is better in a linefight than a sword...

[DrizztFan24]

The Leather Worker's Forum (http://www.leatherworker.net/forum/) has people loaded with knowledge on anything leather and rawhide. It has tutorials and other goodies.

P.S. Lorn, what sort of a blasted re-enactment organization is that?! Hitting each other with battle-ready stage weapons? That would hurt so much to get nailed in the forearm with a mace! Where do I sign up, exactly? :smallamused:

And is flourintine fighting style any good on the battle field?

</derail>

[Lorn]

DrizztFan - PM'd you to avoid a trainwreck of a thread.

[Xyk]

Be a man and go find yourself a Rhinoceros and battle it hand-to-hand. You can use a knife, I guess, but I'll think less of you. I'm pretty sure rhino hide would be plenty tough enough for shields.

PS: I'm pretty sure they live in Africa but I'm not 100% on where in Africa; that much is up to you to find out.