[3.5] 16 BAB for a 4th attack worth it?

[JeenLeen]

This is a question for using melee-fighters with a cleric's BAB growth.

I am wondering if getting the fourth attack is worth it. I imagine that, no matter how high I get my strength or buffs, my attacks rolls with it will only hit on a natural 20. Rather than take class dips to reach 16 BAB, I'm wondering if staying in cleric-type BAB and getting more useful abilities would be better. What are your opinions: is it worth getting the 4th attack?

Context: I am creating a Totemist-based natural weapons fighter. My DM advised me to take a second base class so that I get 16 BAB by level 20 so that I qualify for a 4th attack. I currently have a build prepared so that I hit BAB 16 at level 20 (12 Totemist/4 warshaper/4 levels between fighter and barbarian). By houserules, I can only have 3 base classes and cannot start a new PrC until I finish an old one; almost all books but ToB allowed.

[Sinfire Titan]

This is a question for using melee-fighters with a cleric's BAB growth.

I am wondering if getting the fourth attack is worth it. I imagine that, no matter how high I get my strength or buffs, my attacks rolls with it will only hit on a natural 20. Rather than take class dips to reach 16 BAB, I'm wondering if staying in cleric-type BAB and getting more useful abilities would be better. What are your opinions: is it worth getting the 4th attack?

Context: I am creating a Totemist-based natural weapons fighter. My DM advised me to take a second base class so that I get 16 BAB by level 20 so that I qualify for a 4th attack. I currently have a build prepared so that I hit BAB 16 at level 20 (12 Totemist/4 warshaper/4 levels between fighter and barbarian). By houserules, I can only have 3 base classes and cannot start a new PrC until I finish an old one; almost all books but ToB allowed.

Totemists don't need a +16 BAB to get 4 attacks/round. They get 4 attacks/round from one chakra bind at 2nd level (Girallon Arms or Landshark Boots). They get 16 attacks/round for up to 7 minutes/day at 20th level (Manticore Belt+Totem Embodiment).

[JackMage666]

I'd say yes, just because there's that extra chance for a natural 20. Besides, no matter what your last attack will be hard hit with - It's either 16/11/6/1 or 15/10/5 - the extra attack only increases the chances.

as for you build, I wouldn't worry about it. You don't get iterative attacks with natural weapons anyway, that's just for weapon attacks.

[ericgrau]

It gives you 0.05 extra hits per round, on average. Most people can manage at least 2 hits on a full attack at level 20, if not more. That extra attack is okay to have, but I wouldn't worry about it at all if you want something else.

[KillianHawkeye]

as for you build, I wouldn't worry about it. You don't get iterative attacks with natural weapons anyway, that's just for weapon attacks.

Seconded.

If your main attacks are going to be with natural weapons, you don't have to worry about your iterative BAB at all. The only difference you'll see between a 16 and a 15 BAB is a +1 bonus on all your attacks.

[Keld Denar]

Another thing to remember is that you aren't just getting your 4th iterative, you are getting a +1 (or more) to hit with all of your other attacks that stacks with ALL other sources of +hit.

Otherwise, not, unless you plan on spending a lot of time at 20+, its not terrably important. If you plan on going epic, though, that last attack won't matter much. If you are going epic, it becomes much more important, since epic attack bonus doesn't contribute to advancing your BAB which determines your iterative attacks.

And it does matter about iteratives while making natural attacks. You can always make natural attacks as secondary attacks after you make your normal iteratives as long as your the weapon you use to make your iteratives doesn't interfere with your natural attacks. If you had a weapon like a weighted cloak or braid blades that left your hands and feet free, you could make all of your iterative attacks, and then ALL of your natrual attacks (at -5) as secondary attacks in the same full attack sequence.

[Frosty]

Depends on your party build. There are a bazillion ways to increase to-hit, especialyl if you have a Bard in your team. Extra attacks are always nice, but if you're a gish, then don't give up 9th level casting for 1 extra attack.

[VirOath]

I was going to say that getting the 4th attack from BAB only really matters if you have some form of making iterative touch attacks.

But with natural attacks, you are better using your natural full attacks, maybe even picking up multiattack feats, if they are allowed.

[Chronos]

If you had a weapon like a weighted cloak or braid blades that left your hands and feet free, you could make all of your iterative attacks, and then ALL of your natrual attacks (at -5) as secondary attacks in the same full attack sequence.With the caveat that many totemist soulmelds add extra restrictions on how they can be used with other attacks. If you use the tentacles from a Displacer Mantle, for instance, you can't make any other attacks.

[JeenLeen]

I think we will be around level 25 when we finish, so I'm not sure how important it will be for this game to get that attack in.


I'm going a bit off-topic of my original question, but I thank you for the general and specific advice.

So, when using natural attacks, I only get 1 attack per natural attack. I am currently using one claw as a primary weapon (with iterative attacks, currently 3), 3 secondary claws, a possible rend, 2 secondary tentacles, and a secondary horn gore. Secondaries at -2 with the Multiattack feat.

This does not work because of how natural weapons function? Would being Hasted give an extra attack?

[Chronos]

By the RAW, you would get one attack and one attack alone from your primary claw at full BAB, plus one secondary attack with each of your other natural weapons (including other claws) at full-2 (would be -5 without Multiattack). Alternately, you could use one of your four arms to hold a weapon, in which case you would get iterative attacks with that weapon at full, full-5, full-10, etc., plus one secondary attack with each other natural weapon at full-2. This would give you more attacks per round, but your weapon wouldn't benefit from anything you're taking to improve your natural attacks. Haste would give you one single extra attack, with your primary weapon (a manufactured weapon if you're wielding one, otherwise one of your claws).

I presume you're getting your four claws from Girallon Arms, but where are the other attacks (the gore and tentacles) coming from?

[JeenLeen]

I presume you're getting your four claws from Girallon Arms, but where are the other attacks (the gore and tentacles) coming from?

I took the Deepspawn feat from Lords of Madness for two tentacles and I am wearing a Horned Helm (Magic Item Compedium) to get a gore attack.

I'm not sure if, by RAW, the Horned Helm counts as giving me another secondary natural weapon, but I got DM approval after he read over it.

[Person_Man]

For a melee build, BAB isn't a goal. It's just a means to an end. Your goal is to deal a CR appropriate amount of damage every round, starting at about 15 hit points per round at ECL 1, and topping out at about 858 hp per round at ECL 20 (enough to kill the Tarrasque). You can accomplish this many ways. With natural attacks, you don't really need to worry about BAB, as long as your To-Hit (BAB + Str + feats + magic + magic items + etc) is high enough.