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ninja_penguin
2009-04-13, 02:50 PM
So, for 4th edition, I"ve both played and DM'd things. I've found that overall I like to make bosses on a dungeon be a 'boss squad' instead of just one 'super boss', or some solo-level monster. It seems like a singular enemy just gets overwhelmed, what with the defender locking onto them and causing mayhem, and then if the rest of the team is unfettered to do their thing, they don't last very long. I'm also not a fan of making environmental effects/traps, because the later it gets at night, the probability of me forgetting about them approaches 1.

So, for having a higher level boss group as a boss encounter, what kind of things do people think would be effective or something to challenge the players? I'm looking for things roughly close to high heroic to mid-paragon level currently. If there's something you liked in the MM, let me know. If there's something you've made up, what style of monster was it, and what made it effective? I'm trying to avoid some effects (in thunderspire, there's a monster that can strip your non at-will powers until you save against it. The players as a whole found it to be more tedious then anything else.) that are just obnoxious, but I'm trying to not TPK the whole group by accident. (also, group is generally about 5 people, if that makes any difference).

Kol Korran
2009-04-13, 05:01 PM
well, i am planning 4 major climatic battles for my current adventure. as they are, they are not high heroci or paragon, but they could easely be altered to be effective. note: my group are 4 people, but it think my suggestions could easely be altered to be effective:

battle at the arena

the situation: the party is in conflict with a clan of shifters. (the reasons are non relevent) finally they find a safe place at a village the shifters respect as well. the leader of the tribe then suggest a solution: a battle against himself and his commanding unit, witnessed by all the other shifters.
battle setup: the complexity of the battle here comes from it's participants, not the territory. the commandin unit includes the lontooth shifter warlord chief (party level +2 elite), his druid advisor (party level +1 elite), a bodyguard (party level -1, bodyguard template elite), and the chief hunter (party level -1 ranger elite). the body guard and chief are the main combatants, while the ranger and druid try to affect the back rows. the powers chosen should mostly effect team work. the battle should be tough (about 3 levels above the party's level).
ways to enahance:
- if you can add music of drums around, or of tribal hymns, or so on.
- very importent: give each combatant a personality that can come through in the battle. for example- the chief a carefull tactician, who cares more for his people than him/herself, the druid a cowardly figure who shrieks from frontal confronatation, the bodyguard loyal to the point of fanaticism and so on.
why i think it would work well: my group are new players, and they mostly faced monsters with one or two abilities each. this is the first time they fight their "equels" (who have more hp, but less powers and magical item) besides- its the end of their confronation wit hthe shifters, and that has been long anticipated for. also- each character can find it's counterpart in the other side.
alterations:
- you could choose other base creature other than shifters. i'm thinking sauhagin for example, or perhaps giants or oni.
- change the leading guy/gal's proffesion and adjust the proffesions to fit the setting (part of the reason i chose bodyguard and not fighter was for it to fit the nature-dwelling-shifter style.
- you could give the group magical equipment ot make it more interesting. i gave each a healing potion and the ranger and druid some minor alchemical stuff.

the captured demon and the gate

the situation: the party is being tested this does infact takes place in a dungeon, in which a devil was being held prison. i chose a modified cambion hellsword. i was going for the "fire lord great sword wielding and summoning demond effect" the party gets enough warning about this devil, and comes to his room, in which there are several chain (from a mystical metal or whatnot), that all ring into a collar. at the back of the room there is what seems like a fiery portal, frozen but slightly moving. the devil emerges from the collar, wearing it around it's neck, and tries to convince the party to free him (in my adventure they have the mans to). if not, battle ensues.
the set up: the cambion has been upgraded in level, and has been added two powers- soulscorch (from the hellfire magus version. downgraded), and the ability to summon minor devils and demons through the portal (recharge 6). also, he was made a simple elit. (double hp, action point, +2 saves, and a boost to defenses) the idea is to make it enough of a threat- about 3/4 levels above the party. the chains limit this guys movement, so he can't reach the party if they hang back without his soulscorch, and of course- his summoned fiends. the fiends are about +1/2 party level, enough to occupy them and cause injury, but not a threat bny themselves. the party can maneuver to the gate, (if they can evade the cambion) and shut it out in a skill challange (4/2 succeses, arcana, thievery, religion, maybe even dungoneering), which cuts out interuptions.
ways to enahance:
- if you can add music of fire, or hellish themed music and so on.
- some atmospheric addition that could also have some game affects: as the battle starts the surrounding walls burst into flames (everyone pused against them suffers damage) or they might be pools of fire from which the cambion fights (perhaps he even gains regeneration in them?)
why i think it would work well: it's a classic sort of battle- good guys against the devil. the battle has enough opportunities for all to shine, and though is focused around one major opponenet, the summoned fiends cause enough distraction. closing the gate is a nice minor challange to revert that, but it involves facing the cambion. in short- just a fun, honest, yet simple concept of a battle.
alterations:
- another demon/ devil, perhaps a hells magus for paragon, or perhaps an advanced succubi and her mirror of possesed souls/slaves?
- an added twist- whomever gets defeated gets imprisoned in the collar, so if someone falls to 0, he exchanges places with the cambion! i think it overly confuses though.

Taking over the fort of traps:
note: this is a very complex "encounter", which is actually a set of "rolling encounters" without many short rests between them. if your group tends to just like throwing everything they got at the enemy at the first opprtunity, then this may not be the best encounter for them.

the situation: the party now works with the shifters, to strike against a group of pirates that arrived at the island, took an old ruined fort and have now started to hunt down the shifter population. the pirates are located in an old half ruined hill fort, which is heavily trapped. the party is asked to lead the attack on the fort, and take down the two elven leaders- a ranger and cleric.
battle setup: in contrast with the two previous battles, the complexity of this battle comes nearly entirely from it's terrain and battle layout. the party goes through a whole lot of strategic planning, information gatheirng, and so on that determine where they enter the fort, what resistence they face, and what forces they take with them. this is a fairly big battle, but could probably be scaled down if needed. suffice to say the party faces these elements:
- trained and equiped pirates squads, more resembling marines then normal pirates. they have quite a few alchemical weapons to use. these are used in conjoined of...
- traps: the ranger/ rogue trapped many of the places in the fort, mostly with bush traps, that are hard to see, but reasonably easy to avoid with carefull thought. they are meant to deter enemies and slow them down, and kill the stupid. the party can take the teim to try and dismantle a trap, but they can usually avoid it by smart thought, or athletics, or acrobatics.
- walls and pits and so on: ruins and rough terrain and such, however, these could be used to avoid the snipings of...
- the ranger and the cleric (yes, elites again- i like them, party level), who have a small squad of elven archers at their disposal to assist them. these guys snipe at the characters all through out the fight, from their platform at the top of the keep. the two leader elves are wearing robes of distortion to avoid retaliation.
to assist the characters:
- a shifter unit of some size (depending on preperation), who can work to draw fire, find traps, or engage enemies that are too many.
- the party is supplied with some minor alchemical items, and more importently- potions, mainly healing ones.
- some skills can be used in modified ways: diplomacy to bolster/ ehance the shifter, bluff to mislead the pirates, and history to gain insight into combat tactics.
ways to enahance:
- famous battle music, such as those from lord of the rings and so on,
- very importent: build up on the player's tactical preperations, but don't forget the enemy isn't static as well. it gather's intelligence too, and if the party waits to o long, they can make raids and even take prisoners, to find out what the party's plans are.
why i think it would work well: who didn't like the battle at helm's deep? sure this isn't on that scale, but it is still fun. it's just managable (barely). i think the party would love the chance to command a small "army", and have their planning and forethought come through. also- it's importent that every ambush, every trap, obstacle, and arrow from above be attributed to the two leaders. this way they can be hated with
alterations:
- you could change the race/s involved. yuan ti could offer a special variance.
- this could easely be an underground fortress. perhaps of dwarves or kobolds or whatever that came to reclaim their homes.
- you could add "pets" to the defending force (drakes, perhaps even a basilisk?) but i think it over complicates the entire thing. nearly all opponents here should be minions i think. the object of the battle is to flow, until it reaches culmination.

the old temple and the dragon

the situation: this is the last encounter of this story arch. i won't explain everything, just explain why i think it works well. the party traveles with some allies to a ruined temple. at the temple they are met by a tiefling starlock (a priest of a relevent faith) and a dragon. they are told the temple contains a prisoner, an ancienct angel that evil forces could not vanquish, just contained. (they were tested by the cambion to see how they would act just for this occasion).the dragon that is good, tells them that he was place to guard a devil imprisoned here, but that the angle spoke to it, and now it knows the truth, and wishes to free it. the prionser could be released by activating the 8 arcane signs that surround the stone in the middle of the temple. the party and their allies have the means to do so. when they go to the signs, each is visited by a vision, upon which they decide if the creature held is a devil or angel (it is a devil masquarading as an angel, only the warlock knows the truth). then they decide whether to activate the sign or not. this bears on the battle ahead. in any case at least one of their allies feels something is wrong, and dows not free it. then some small tense conversation ensues, where the people take side, some on the side of the tiefling and dragon, some on the side of the party (though the party itself can choose they go wit the tiefling and dragon, in which case the story goes a whole different way, but i won't touch on that). the allies are split, and so two groups are set, the stone lights up and sends radiant tendrils across the battle field...
oh, and to make things worse, the shifters are once again against the characters (won't go into that), and they are about to storm the temple to get the character and starlock. some of the pirates (yes, my players are expected to shift loyalties a lot)have erected a barricade near the temple peremiter, and are all that stands between those inside and the shifters.
battle setup: two things mark this encounter as unique: first, it's toughness (around 4 levels above the party level- the last encounter) but you could make it easier. second- it's complexity and options. the two are linked:
- each combatant is unique (though maybe some allies can have the same initiative) and most have many powers (the dragon and starlock sure do). this open the door to a whole range of possibilities. this is similar to the first encounter)
- "tendrils of the beautifull devil" (think the angel's wing from diablo2): depending on how many arcane signs were activated, there are going to be between 1-8 lines of power over the battlefield. when an ally of the devil stands in a square containg one, he gains some benefit (depending on the mark), when an enemy of the devil stands in these squares, the tendrils attacks it, causing light radiant damage, and some secondery effect (depending on the sign)
- "sealing the portal": again, a skill challange (8/4 succeses, religion/ arcana/ thievery. moderate difficulty. like in the second encounter mentioned) in order to close the stone, and the tendrils. success gains the party healing and temporary hit points. however, any try to deactivate the stone draws attention from the other side.
- "gaining allies": the party can try and convince the allies to join them. i haven't yet decided on the skill challange (depends on how they treat their allies on the way, and what they know of the devil beforehand) but it should involve diplomacy, bluff and intimidate. this could be the key to the battle.
- "convincing the dragon": this is by far an excellent way to end this, but should be gretly difficult (10/3 successes, religion/ diplomacy/ bluff, hard difficulty). this effectively nearly ends the encounter.
- "when shifters attack": after round 5-6 some shifters start breaking through the barricade (mostly minions) who once they see the characters are attacking their sacred dragon, of course go after them as well! the party may again try to ally/frighten the shifters by the mentioned skills. (like in the third encounter mentioned)
- did i mention the temple was partly flooded? well, not realy, but part of the floor have collapsed, and rain water sunk in. these pose quite a serious hindrance (which the dragon makes full use of). most of these could be traversed by a succesful jump check. of course people could be pushed into the pools, in which case they need a swim chekc to keep afloat, and a move action to climb out.
ways to enahance:
- still haven't decided on music, but it should be a long song track, as this will take long. also, it should sound epic.
- this sort of epic battle demands appropriate epic descriptions- prepare in advacne to how some things shoul be described. the battle is very complex so all preperation is greatly welcomed.
why i think it would work well: well, perhaps it would just work in my campaign ,since ocming to think of it, many elements are campaign specific. still, with some alteration i think it could fit many games, the main thing here is that everyone has something to do, a moment to shine, and there's something to catch everyone's imagination. for me it's the culmination of a story arch, which brings many elements together.
alterations:
- many things could be changed: the participating allies/ villains. you could change the dragon to some sort of guardian more befitting your cmapagin. the tendrils are very variable
- this could easely be done in a dungeon as well, with dwarves coming through the wall after some time. the captured creature can be turned to a mad construct, or something else that mustn't be let out. you could make the whole dungeon a prison, and this room it's center.

PHEW! that had been a long post, but the writing spirit set one me, so i wrote. i just hope it could actually help/ inspire someone. if it does, please do tell me. oh, and if you have any questions, or ideas for improvements, please suggest. i'm new to DMing in 4E...
Kol.

Oracle_Hunter
2009-04-14, 12:58 AM
Well, some general tips:
(1) - make sure the Dungeon Boss is a Leader, or has a Leader template put on him. It magnifies the power of his minions tremendously and can lead to a really tough battle.

(2) - figure out a strategy beforehand. Look at what your Boss Squad can do, and see how they'd go about doing it well. Naturally, adjust for the "intelligence" of a given Boss, but do look for terrain features that could be arranged by the Boss to give him the best advantage.

(3) - have a good mix of monster types. In general, Soldiers for the front lines and some Artillery to take out squishies - and maybe some Lurkers/Skirmishers to really put the hurt on the PC Defender if he gets cocky.

(4) - give the boss (and his elite bodyguards!) magic items to make them both more flavorful and more powerful. It's good treasure for the PCs, and they'll take their magic much more seriously after it's been used on them.

Also - if you have trouble remembering traps, use big static ones - like pits, or fire, or anything that becomes a piece of the battle map. It's pretty easy to remember to do fire damage to the PCs when they get pushed into fire after all - and these kinds of traps can be deadly in the hands of smart Boss Squads.

Lycan 01
2009-04-14, 01:27 AM
I'm running my college DnD group through their first actual dungeon. Its basically 4 Kobold & trap encounters, leading up to a climactic battle with a Young Black Dragon in a dark cavern.

Here's what I'm hoping for...

The party is:
-Lvl 1 Human Wizard (focused on area damage)
-Lvl 1 Halfling Warlock (focused on target damage)
-Lvl 1 Dragonborn Warlord (Focused on buffs and brute force)
-Lvl 2 Human Paladin (focused on healing and brute force)

The Kobold and trap encounters will provide (hopefully) enough XP to finish getting the Warlock up to lvl 2. So it'll be two lvl 1 and two lvl 2 characters by the time they get to the dragon. Also, they should have a nice supply of healing potions by then, and I'm hoping they'll be smart enough to rest before the descend into the dragon's den. Of course, they don't know the cavern has a dragon in it... so they may just walk on in. :smalleek:


The battle with the dragon should, knowing my party, go as follows...

-The party enters the cavern. They see several skeletons strewn about (dead adventurers - searching provides a few GP and/or a healing potion), a pile of bones over in own corner (Dragon's bed), and a dark crevice in the center of the ground on the opposite side of the cavern. The walls are tall and craggy, with more shadows than actual rock in view. The ceiling is much the same - rocky and shadow, with huge patches of black shadow in various corners. There is a large hole in the center of the cavern roof, and a shaft of light going to the center of the cavern floor provides the light they're using to see at the moment.
-The Young Black Dragon - a lvl 4 Solo Lurker - is hiding in one of the patches of shadow on the ceiling, watching the party and awaiting them to make the first move.
-The party, I assume, will slowly sneak over to the crevice and try and stare into the abyss. I wouldn't be suprised if one of the magic users used their daily on whatever is "hiding" in the crevice.
-The dragon will then drop from the ceiling, landing behind the party and catching them entirely by suprise.
-It will use its "Eye of Fear" ability, or whatever its called that stuns the party. I expect this will probably stun 1 or 2 of them... But with this party's luck, they'll all get stunned.
-The dragon will then use an Action Point to use its Breath Attack to spray acid on the surprised party, dealing a good bit of damage to the players, both physically and psychologically.
-The dragon will then use its second Action Point to leap into the air and fly up to the ceiling, dissappearing back into the shadows. It will then skip its next few turns, watching how the heroes react to the sudden carnage they were forced to endure. This will also give it a chance to recharge its breath attack...

By this point, the party should either be on their toes and prepared for battle, or half/mostly dead and fleeing for the door. :smallamused:

-If they stay and fight, once the dragon recharges its breath attack it will let go of the ceiling and allow itself to fall. As it descends, it will Breath Attack the party, using gravity to its advantage. The party will get doused again, and the Young Black Dragon will land and prepare for battle. The rest of the encounter will unfold from there... whatever happens, happens. :smallcool:
-If the party flees, the dragon will let them go. But if somebody is reeeeeally messed up, it may drop down and try to finish them off as the rest of the party escapes. Or it'll just mock them from the shadows in Draconic... I guess it depends on whatever mood I'm in! :smallbiggrin:


What do you guys think? Fair fight, or invitation to a TPK? Am I being too tactical and making the fight too hard, or am I doing it right by making the Young Black Dragon stealthy and clever? I'd hate to completely trash them, but if they survive they'll be getting plenty of rewards - the dragon has a stash of gold and magic items in a chest under his bone bed, plus the dragon's hide and scales and stuff are worth a good bit of GP.


Edit: This just popped into my mind... If the party actually does really good and starts to totally trounce the dragon, would it be unfair if it tried to grab one of the party members and throw him into the crevice? :smallwink:

If I were to try and do that, what rolls would be needed? STR vs. REF to grab, and STR vs. FORT to move/throw, right? I'd probably grant the player a Reflex save or something to grab onto a ledge...

Kol Korran
2009-04-14, 04:37 AM
Lycan01, though i'm fairly new to DMing in 4E, i think i might be able to offer some advice:
1- this is a solo monster. this usually get creamed by a suitable group of players (though yours is lacking one, mainly a serious striker, which are the main damage dealers for such encounters)). the paladin will challange it probably, and hamper it against the rest of the party, and if your warlord has "lead the attack", then the poor dragon will most probably become much easier to hit.

if you want to use a solo, i suggest o either use minoins coming to help and occupy all the party (kobolds coming to help), or terrain. the dragon has flight, so make use of small chasms, pools of acid and so on (also, it can then push characters to them with it's tail.

2- definetly play the character as crafty- it's a lurker. but don't forget to give it an actual personality and play it accordingly. it could be bold, reckless, taunting, cowardly, insane, or whatever. it will make the encoutner more memorable.

3-this is a boss encounter, so ending it with one or two stabilized characters on the floor, and the rest bleeding heavily is a desired outcome (to my opinion at least) try to play the battle before hand with miniatures and so on, and see if it's too hard or too easy. of course- players might surpise you.

4- two small notes:
a) i don't think your players will waste their dailys on the hole in the middle.
b) i may be mistaken, but i think the dragon can only use one action point per round.

5- if the party runs away, be sure to have a contingency plan for the dragon as well, some "back cave" he can fight in that has different terrain features, or perhaps a trap the kobolds built for this event (an acid spraying trap?), or perhaps the dragon calls our some allies (scorpions/ drakes that live in a case close by? black dragons are known for their abilities to talk ro critters) the point is: even if the players are informed of the threat ahead, they should still be surprised.

one last thing- i played in a 5 player's 1st level group who did the exact same thing (kobolds and trap dungeon, finished by a black dragoness). at first i was afraid, but we wiped the floor with the big glorified reptile. however, our DM played it fairly dumb, and there was no terrain or such like to use. the greatest strategy boiled down to when to use powers (as soon as you can), and flanking. (oh, and making sure the party is disperssed enough so not to be included in the breath weapon). it was amongst the most boring fights ever. don't do that, take heed of the suggestions above, and make it interesting.

Kol.

Lycan 01
2009-04-14, 11:07 AM
Lycan01, though i'm fairly new to DMing in 4E, i think i might be able to offer some advice:

Why thank you! :smallbiggrin:


1- this is a solo monster. this usually get creamed by a suitable group of players (though yours is lacking one, mainly a serious striker, which are the main damage dealers for such encounters)). the paladin will challange it probably, and hamper it against the rest of the party, and if your warlord has "lead the attack", then the poor dragon will most probably become much easier to hit.

The Warlock is the party's striker. He's pretty good at dealing out damage, plus the player is very skilled and crafty...

The Paladin will be the dragon's main target. He poses the biggest threat since he's lvl 2 and the player is skilled and actually thinks things through, and that way the dragon's health won't slowly tick down due to attacking other players while Marked. Once he goes down, the dragon will be able to concentrate on the other players...

The Warlord sucks. He never actually leads the party. Instead he just tries to intimidate minions, fight random unimportant enemies simply because they "piss him off", gets annoyed when another player steals his kill, and complains about the unfairness of the game when his character loses HP. He completely forgot he had Powers until the end of last night's session... *facepalm* Needless to say, I don't see him being much of a threat. And if he turns out to be a thorn in the dragon's side, I'd have no qualms with the dragon throwing him in the crevice. :smalltongue:

if you want to use a solo, i suggest o either use minoins coming to help and occupy all the party (kobolds coming to help), or terrain. the dragon has flight, so make use of small chasms, pools of acid and so on (also, it can then push characters to them with it's tail.

The party will have cleared the dungeon of all the Kobolds by then... Plus, it wouldn't be as dramatic if the party had to worry about little ankle-biting wastes of time. :smalltongue: But there will by the big hole in the ground, as well as puddles of acid left over by the dragon's breath attack.

2- definetly play the character as crafty- it's a lurker. but don't forget to give it an actual personality and play it accordingly. it could be bold, reckless, taunting, cowardly, insane, or whatever. it will make the encoutner more memorable.

The dragon is quite clever. He likes to stick to the shadows and use guerilla tactics. He's also a bit stuck up, and likes to brag and taunt the players if they give him the opportunity to speak. I think if does turn out to be a TPK, he'll spare the characters' lives just to hear them beg for life. He might even let them go if they bribe him with all the loot they've gotten... or the life of one of the players. *evil cackle*

3-this is a boss encounter, so ending it with one or two stabilized characters on the floor, and the rest bleeding heavily is a desired outcome (to my opinion at least) try to play the battle before hand with miniatures and so on, and see if it's too hard or too easy. of course- players might surpise you.

I want it to be a suprise... Its a realistic situation - a group of adventurers hack their way through a dungeon, only to stumble on a stronger enemy than expected. Will they triumph? Will they fail? I'd rather we all find out together. :smallbiggrin:

4- two small notes:
a) i don't think your players will waste their dailys on the hole in the middle. You'd be surpised...
b) i may be mistaken, but i think the dragon can only use one action point per round. Hm... I'll check that later. But the player's wouldn't realize the difference. :smalltongue:

5- if the party runs away, be sure to have a contingency plan for the dragon as well, some "back cave" he can fight in that has different terrain features, or perhaps a trap the kobolds built for this event (an acid spraying trap?), or perhaps the dragon calls our some allies (scorpions/ drakes that live in a case close by? black dragons are known for their abilities to talk ro critters) the point is: even if the players are informed of the threat ahead, they should still be surprised.

Hmmm... I'd rather not overkill them, should the dragon turn out to actually be too much of a challenge. Plus, the player's won't be informed of the threat ahead, so a double-shock might annoy them...

one last thing- i played in a 5 player's 1st level group who did the exact same thing (kobolds and trap dungeon, finished by a black dragoness). at first i was afraid, but we wiped the floor with the big glorified reptile. however, our DM played it fairly dumb, and there was no terrain or such like to use. the greatest strategy boiled down to when to use powers (as soon as you can), and flanking. (oh, and making sure the party is disperssed enough so not to be included in the breath weapon). it was amongst the most boring fights ever. don't do that, take heed of the suggestions above, and make it interesting.

The terrain will be varied, the dragon will use hit-and-run tactics, and I aim to keep the fight exciting and varied. :smallcool:

Kol.

Responses in bold. Thanks for the advice!

Yakk
2009-04-14, 12:11 PM
I'd be in favour of deriving the boss encounter from the dungeon theme, rather than the other way around.

And generally, a boss encounter is just a normal encounter with more effort put into the quirks and a higher difficulty. ;-)

You can also get them out of their comfort zone:

Splitting the party with a hard to cross barrier.

Really tough bad guys with great lock-down of party melee... followed by a wave of Lurkers who attack the back end of the party.

Minion (or just weak normal monster) factories. Having a constant supply of new meat flowing into the battle.

Going further, "spawning" fights where killing the enemy isn't the primary goal -- more bad guys are coming, the goal is to tweak the macguffin (open the door, pick up the idol, etc). This needs to be _clear_ in that defeating the bad guys isn't an option.

Another variant, bad guys which you cannot defeat directly. Some macguffin that 'brings them back' if you try to just pummel them (liches which reform immediately with full HP after being killed). The idea here is that phase 1 is actually learning why they are invulnerable, phase 2 is taking out the source of their invulnerability, then phase 3 is really defeating them.

Generally multi-phase battles. Battles where things change half way through in a fundamental way. The trick is making sure that the total offence budget doesn't overwhelm the parties, while each phase's offence budget seems threatening.

ninja_penguin
2009-04-14, 01:38 PM
Thanks for responses all. Looking over stuff:

-Music I really don't do; I just am not good at keeping good moods up, and as we're generally cooking dinner during gaming there's not a huge immersion going on anyway, so no huge loss. Dropping a surprise horde into the group gets their attention better then a strings flair.

-I'm thinking overall I might like a group of intelligent elite-level monsters better then a solo-level boss with minions. Although I'm thinking I might start keying in reinforcement groups that show up, with a mix of normal leveled monsters and minions, so the party doesn't just go 'oh, okay, more minions'

-When using minions, I'm also a big fan of skirmishers. It's probably a mental thing, as I'm getting some new lurker style things built as assassins to swoop in and flank or disrupt the party if they don't notice them in time.

-My current setup is a feywild based boss fight; the PCs are visiting a planar observatory, and an Eladrin noblewoman (Lady Metai) wants to keep it focuses on the Feywild, which allows her access to the mortal world, and to expand her influence in the area. Now, I came up with her name on my own, somebody pointed out that it sounded like 'Meta' how I was pronouncing it, and I was unable to not create the following Knight (http://s145.photobucket.com/albums/r238/shallorwain/?action=view&current=metaiknight.gif) as a boss character. I've modified a few other things around so that there's the potention for two more elite monsters to be with him; two mini-bosses that have been given an escape clause instead of standard 'fight to the death'-ness. One is a controller-esque fey, and the other one is going to be a soldier-type. If they die, I'm adding in a few eladrin to help out, and then a lot of minions that are summoned by the knight during battle to fill up the rest of the EXP budget. I like spawning things mid-fight just to mess with the players, I think, and it keeps a wizard/whatever from laying waste to a huge chunk of minions all at once.

(Note: some changes I've made but haven't uploaded yet for the Metaiknight; Raven's rush is now a recharge 5-6, and he gets a combat advantage only attack for somebody he teleports next to.)

I'm kind of designing this to mess with my player's standard setups; the fighter is good at locking people down, so the Cloak of ravens is designed to avoid being auto-locked down, but not be a 'haha, no melee for you' style thing. The controller type is going to be messing with the secondary defenders/warlord, and also with the rogue who likes to hide behind pillars. likewise, the minions being summoned will target the backline, although they get a 'second chance' if they're close to the Metaiknight, so they're not super free-ranging.

sailor_grenoble
2009-04-14, 02:54 PM
Here is what I made my players suffer through this week-end:


Context:
A few "Godfathers" share between them the underworld (read: the network of mazes, crypts, catacombs, sewers and caves) of one of the big cities of the world. One of them is a vampire, and another one is a succubus (there are many others, but they aren't very important here). One night, on neutral ground, the vampire and the succubus met for the first time (for whatever reason left as an exercise to the reader, they never met before). You can easily imagine what happens next: love at first sight, etc ... (yes, it is really cliché)
Taken by their feelings for each other, they decide to get married, and so start to organise the wedding.
One way or another, the word of the weeding reaches the surface, and a team of special ops (the PCs) is dispatched by the authorities of the city to "take care of the matter" (since this would upset the delicate balnce of powers in the underworld, with one group becoming much more powerful than the others)

So, the PCs had to go to the palace of the vampire (where he and his love resided) to disrupt the wedding (and if possible, kill either one of the two lovers).
To cut a long story short, a few undead and devils later, the PCs arrived in the shrine where the final battle took place.

Were present:
the vampire himself (based on a fighter, level 12 and promoted to Elite, with a Leader ability)
his personnal bodyguards: 4 vampire spawn bloodhunters (level 10 minions)
the succubus (upgraded to level 12 and promoted to Elite)
her personnal bodyguards: 4 legion devil hellguards (level 11 minions)

the priest: a level 11 controller
his assistant: level 9 artillery

the witnesses:
the older sister of the bride: a guardian angel (level 14 soldier)
a friend of the groom: a battle wight commander (level 12 soldier)



There were 5 PCs in the group, all level 12
Were present:
A cleric, parangon pathing as a radiant servant
A two-bladed ranger/fighter, parangon pathing as a kensei
A wizard, parangon pathing as a spellstorm mage
A battlerager fighter, parangon pathing as a dreadnought
A warden, parangon pathing as a bloodwrath guardian



The battle was hard (as it was intended to be), but my players managed to kill both the succubus and the vampire (they will come back later, that's one of the advantages of supernatural beings), ensuring that the other lords of the underworld would then fight over the now "leader-less" territories.
The vampire and the succubus will become recurring vilains of the saga (I'm still not sure whether they will be able to get married one day, though, what with the PCs and other things constantly getting in the way)

Lycan 01
2009-04-14, 03:34 PM
Awww... Why can't the bad guys have a shot at love? :smalltongue:

But seriously, ouch... That must have been a tough fight...

I dunno, if your players can survive that, I think mine can take a single dragon. By the way, what were the losses for the PCs? How many incaps/deaths were there? Any suvivors for the bad guys? Just to see how it all balanced out...

sailor_grenoble
2009-04-14, 04:11 PM
Awww... Why can't the bad guys have a shot at love? :smalltongue:the surface authorities didn't believe their love was of the genuine type, and thought that it was a political maneuver (I didn't intervene here: my players took on the roles of the bickering members of the Council for this part). Afterwards, I think it will become a sort of running gag, I guess.


But seriously, ouch... That must have been a tough fight...
I dunno, if your players can survive that, I think mine can take a single dragon. By the way, what were the losses for the PCs? How many incaps/deaths were there? Any suvivors for the bad guys? Just to see how it all balanced out...my players entered this fight with all their dailies, and enough healing surges for the healing capabilities of the team (they all had a healer's sash and 2 potions).
Nevertheless, the ranger's HP went below zero twice, and stayed there the second time. The warden died after a heroic duel with the wight (the wight only had to be pushed after this, it had only ~10HP left). The others were severely wounded, but still alive.
None of their opponents survived (but had the fight went on for 2 or 3 more rounds, I don't guarantee the result would have been similar)

Lycan 01
2009-04-14, 04:29 PM
Epic. :smallbiggrin:


And yes, have the love-lorn monsters become a running gag... It'd be funny when the Vampire starts to get pissed off. "Oh come ON!! This is the 5th time! Do you realize how much the caterer costs?!"

ninja_penguin
2009-04-14, 04:34 PM
bonus points: keep scaling the ceremony down each time, culminating in the PCs inadvertently walking in on a demonic version of a justice of the peace.

Kol Korran
2009-04-14, 04:45 PM
Were present:
the vampire himself (based on a fighter, level 12 and promoted to Elite, with a Leader ability)
his personnal bodyguards: 4 vampire spawn bloodhunters (level 10 minions)
the succubus (upgraded to level 12 and promoted to Elite)
her personnal bodyguards: 4 legion devil hellguards (level 11 minions)

the priest: a level 11 controller
his assistant: level 9 artillery

the witnesses:
the older sister of the bride: a guardian angel (level 14 soldier)
a friend of the groom: a battle wight commander (level 12 soldier)


i just loved the fact that besides having a role to play in the battle, each combatant also had a role to play in the wedding! loved this extra touch, must have added atmosphere to the fight. just nice to have more context than "monsters who need to be killed".

sailor_grenoble
2009-04-14, 05:08 PM
i just loved the fact that besides having a role to play in the battle, each combatant also had a role to play in the wedding! loved this extra touch, must have added atmosphere to the fight. just nice to have more context than "monsters who need to be killed".oh yes, we had lots of fun and roleplaying during this fight!

the best part being (IMO) when the wizard's player had her (female) character blush when the succubus kissed her, provocking the rage of the vampire, who initiated a charge toward the wizard, only to take 3 opportunity attacks (a twin-strike from the ranger, one from the warden, and finally one from the fighter, preventing him to continue his charge).
The vampire then spent a minor action expressing his jealousy.

This action also had the wizard's player decide that her character would start to question her own sexuality

Edit: oh, and before any of you asks: no, I won't sell you my players. I will egoistically keep them