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Myrmex
2009-04-14, 02:56 PM
I'm in a 3 person group with a druid, a warblade, and me, a beguiler. We're level 5, about to go level 6, and I was wondering what sort of efficient heals we have available to us. I would rather spend my time spamming glitterdust than fumbling with wands in combat.

The basic problem is our melee doesn't have great AC (especially the druid in leopard morph), so get hit with about 50% of attacks/round. Which means I can spend my action each round negating the cumulative damage one of them took, move to other, and back and forth, keeping them hovering between the negatives and 30 HP.

Solutions? The warblade has 14 dex (12 base, +2 gloves), with mithral fullplate and uses a spiked chain. Druid turns into a leopard, and I put mage armor on her.

Books available:
Core, ToB, PHBII.
We are getting the chance to start cracking open splatbooks at level6, so suggestions from any of the completes would be fine.

I'm looking for specific suggestions; not "get some miss chance" or generic advice like that.

RagnaroksChosen
2009-04-14, 03:26 PM
Wouldn't it be more efficent for you to just disable the oponite with like color spray or some other disable so that the melee don't take any damage.

Healing it self is too ineffective to be used in combat for the reason your finding out now.


Better to disable the oppoosition and heal up afterwards.

Person_Man
2009-04-14, 03:33 PM
This should help:
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=900334

overduegalaxy
2009-04-14, 03:41 PM
Since the druid actually gets healing spells on their list, why aren't they at least helping with healing?

As far as keeping people up, I suggest investing in stuff that allows you to heal yourself as a free action. I think alchemical tooths (CAdv) can store potions, but I'm not 100% on that. There's also a potion bracer somewhere (I think it's in an Eberron book) that allows you to quaff potions as a free action, but there's a chance they break every time you take damage.

Starbuck_II
2009-04-14, 04:17 PM
Druid can casts Lesser Vigor, Summon Nature's Ally to summon a Unicorn, etc.

Everyone could buy a Healing belt so they can help deal with healing of themselves/others.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-04-14, 05:05 PM
Your group should definitely change its tactics, because in-combat healing should only happen when someone would otherwise die, and it should not happen every encounter. Everyone should have a Healing Belt (MIC) so you're not relying on one person to do it. Wands of Cure Light Wounds, Faith Healing, and Lesser Vigor should be used out of combat between encounters, as their effectiveness during combat will be negligible. Expendable items with higher level spells will still be both too inefficient and too expensive to be spamming during a fight. Talk to the other players and figure out what everyone's going to be doing during combat, especially the druid. Maybe even have some people retrain some feats (via PHB2 rules or Psychic Reformation) to make everyone more effective.

The Druid should not be using Wild Shape to fight until he has Natural Spell, and even then his best form is a Fleshraker dinosaur (MM3). He should have taken Natural Bond from Complete Adventurer at level 3, and gotten a Fleshraker animal companion at level 4. The -3 to his druid level for its extra HD and abilities will be negated by the +3 from Natural Bond, so he should have a 6 HD companion with Ability Focus: Poison for a DC of 17. At 8 HD it can get +1 Con, and at 9 HD it should get Virulent Poison from Savage Species. With a few buffs it can probably solo most encounters. The Druid should get a Lesser Rod of Extend to put Greater Magic Fang (+1 all) on his companion and use the other two charges on Creeping Cold. His other spells prepared should include Entangle, Enrage Animal, Barkskin, (Mass) Snake's Swiftness, Venomous Volley (http://crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Spells-Druid.pdf), and Icelance. He can also use Summon Nature's Ally to make some wolverines or lions, which the opponents will likely waste attacks on. A Lion can charge/pounce/grapple an opponent, and his Fleshraker can leap/trip/pin another, severely reducing their ability to attack. Most high HP opponents can be reduced to 0 Dex from just a few doses of its poison, especially if he casts Venomous Volley the first round.

The Warblade should probably be in the best armor he can afford, which would probably be the heaviest armor that gives him his full Dex bonus. He's probably using a two-handed weapon, so he should get a reach weapon and take Combat Reflexes, and use armor spikes so he still threatens adjacent squares. He can focus his attacks on grappled/pinned opponents so he hits more often, and position himself so other opponents will provoke AoOs by moving up on him or someone else. If his Cha is 15+ he should take the feat Frightful Presence from the Draconomicon at level 6, a -2 to your opponents' attacks, saves, checks, and rolls vs trip/grapple is totally worth it.

As for you, try to use any spells you can to disable or hinder your opponents every round until all of them are affected by at least one such spell. Mage Armor the druid and his companion every day, use Color Spray, Glitterdust, and Slow on most opponents, Silence on a point in space near enemy spellcasters (as a readied action to ruin their spell if you can). If you're going to UMD wands, use offensive spells like Web that practically end a fight in one casting, rather than wasting your turn on healing spells.

Again, everyone needs a Healing Belt (MIC), focus on disabling/hindering the opponents and then killing them, use strategic positioning, and only heal when someone's life depends on it.

Myrmex
2009-04-14, 05:31 PM
Wouldn't it be more efficent for you to just disable the oponite with like color spray or some other disable so that the melee don't take any damage.

Healing it self is too ineffective to be used in combat for the reason your finding out now.


Better to disable the oppoosition and heal up afterwards.

It sure would, if they didn't go charging into melee and getting hurt before realizing "hey, maybe some buffs before combat would have been a good idea". Or if the opposition has good saves/immunity/too many HD.


Since the druid actually gets healing spells on their list, why aren't they at least helping with healing?

As far as keeping people up, I suggest investing in stuff that allows you to heal yourself as a free action. I think alchemical tooths (CAdv) can store potions, but I'm not 100% on that. There's also a potion bracer somewhere (I think it's in an Eberron book) that allows you to quaff potions as a free action, but there's a chance they break every time you take damage.

She does the between combat healing with a wand of CLW. Good advice with the alchemical tooth. We basically need potions that can be used to keep someone from dying without costing actions/drawing AoO.


Druid can casts Lesser Vigor, Summon Nature's Ally to summon a Unicorn, etc.

Everyone could buy a Healing belt so they can help deal with healing of themselves/others.

Lesser Vigor is hardly an in combat way to heal. A healing belt sounds like a good idea; where can one of those be found?


Your group should definitely change its tactics, because in-combat healing should only happen when someone would otherwise die, and it should not happen every encounter.

It's hard to have perfect tactics. Most of our encounters tend to be on the hard side of difficult, so we often end with someone seriously injured. What I really need to do is get the druid to buff pre-combat, as well as he AC, especially when she gets the chance.


Everyone should have a Healing Belt (MIC) so you're not relying on one person to do it. Wands of Cure Light Wounds, Faith Healing, and Lesser Vigor should be used out of combat between encounters, as their effectiveness during combat will be negligible. Expendable items with higher level spells will still be both too inefficient and too expensive to be spamming during a fight. Talk to the other players and figure out what everyone's going to be doing during combat, especially the druid. Maybe even have some people retrain some feats (via PHB2 rules or Psychic Reformation) to make everyone more effective.

The druid is both the strongest and weakest link, ironically. We have been using wands of CLW outside of battle, and found a wand of CSW with 48 charges on it that I've been using in combat (since I can run around invisible, tumble, etc). However, I find myself spending more time healing, since as long as they know I will heal their ass, they continue doing stupid stuff. The warblade died last session, so hopefully he'll reconsider his approach. Their feats are all solid. The warblade is a trip monster. The druid might be able to do better with retraining, but better in a broken sense (that feat that makes your animal companion as good as the tank), as opposed to more focused. I think she'll be taking rapid summoning next level, since she has augment summoning already, and likes summoning. And summoning lions is pretty damn efficient way to spend your turn.


The Druid should not be using Wild Shape to fight until he has Natural Spell, and even then his best form is a Fleshraker dinosaur (MM3). He should have taken Natural Bond from Complete Adventurer at level 3, and gotten a Fleshraker animal companion at level 4. The -3 to his druid level for its extra HD and abilities will be negated by the +3 from Natural Bond, so he should have a 6 HD companion with Ability Focus: Poison for a DC of 17. At 8 HD it can get +1 Con, and at 9 HD it should get Virulent Poison from Savage Species.

I doubt we'll get any of that past our DM. Before the fighter retrained warblade, the druids full plate bison was as good as he was. She goes with bison as her pet, which has 5HD. We may be able to get her to get Natural Bond, and get the DM to interpret the rules like that. Oh, and also let her get a dinosaur. We happen to be in the far, icy north, though.


With a few buffs it can probably solo most encounters. The Druid should get a Lesser Rod of Extend to put Greater Magic Fang (+1 all) on his companion and use the other two charges on Creeping Cold. His other spells prepared should include Entangle, Enrage Animal, Barkskin, (Mass) Snake's Swiftness, Venomous Volley (http://crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Spells-Druid.pdf), and Icelance. He can also use Summon Nature's Ally to make some wolverines or lions, which the opponents will likely waste attacks on. A Lion can charge/pounce/grapple an opponent, and his Fleshraker can leap/trip/pin another, severely reducing their ability to attack. Most high HP opponents can be reduced to 0 Dex from just a few doses of its poison, especially if he casts Venomous Volley the first round.

She's mostly focused on summoning animals (spell focus conjuration & augment summoning). I've got to get her to think more about using spell slots for buffs, so she functions better. So far, summoning a pounce/grapple/rake monster with her 3rd level slots has been amazing. We've also got some good versatility out of it, for getting flying enemies, swimming enemies, etc.


The Warblade should probably be in the best armor he can afford, which would probably be the heaviest armor that gives him his full Dex bonus. He's probably using a two-handed weapon, so he should get a reach weapon and take Combat Reflexes, and use armor spikes so he still threatens adjacent squares. He can focus his attacks on grappled/pinned opponents so he hits more often, and position himself so other opponents will provoke AoOs by moving up on him or someone else. If his Cha is 15+ he should take the feat Frightful Presence from the Draconomicon at level 6, a -2 to your opponents' attacks, saves, checks, and rolls vs trip/grapple is totally worth it.

He uses Iron Hear/Diamond Mind mostly, with a spiked chain. He's in mithral full plate. He rarely rolls above 10s, though. He has really awful luck.


As for you, try to use any spells you can to disable or hinder your opponents every round until all of them are affected by at least one such spell. Mage Armor the druid and his companion every day, use Color Spray, Glitterdust, and Slow on most opponents, Silence on a point in space near enemy spellcasters (as a readied action to ruin their spell if you can). If you're going to UMD wands, use offensive spells like Web that practically end a fight in one casting, rather than wasting your turn on healing spells.

The bison is in full plate, so I just mage armor the druid. Of course, that only encourages her to go charging in more.

I try to use spells that win fights, but I can only win fights with disabling spells if my allies stay up. They're the ones that do actual damage. In fights were HP damage is done, and a lot of it, they WILL go down if they don't get healed. So; how to heal them?


Again, everyone needs a Healing Belt (MIC), focus on disabling/hindering the opponents and then killing them, use strategic positioning, and only heal when someone's life depends on it.

The problem is, I only heal when someone's life depends on it, which is at least once per encounter, and that heal is only enough to prolong death for a round, and since I didn't disable an opponent that round, we're exactly where we were the round prior. I want a way to have it such that when healing needs to be done because someone's life depends on it, it's not me that is responsible. My character is more likely to let his allies die turn invisible and runaway than run around like a cleric of Pelor. Which would hurt my friends' feelings, and be a less fun game.


[edit]
I should also add, if the druid totally cheeses out, as you are suggesting, encounters will only get harder, not easier.

Keld Denar
2009-04-14, 05:47 PM
[edit]
I should also add, if the druid totally cheeses out, as you are suggesting, encounters will only get harder, not easier.

Ah ha. So your DM is familiar with the Law of Inverse Optimization! The bigger they are, the bigger crap you throw at them!

Maybe talk to your DM and ask if he can pull it back just a smidgen?

Eldariel
2009-04-14, 05:50 PM
Healing Belt is in Magic Item Compendium and costs 750gp a piece - never leave home without them. They have 3 charges per day, heal 2d8 for 1 charge, 3d8 for 2 or 4d8 for 3.

One approach you might want to consider is pulling the near-dead guy the hell out of there. Benign Transposition (although I don't see Spell Compendium/Complete Arcane on your list of books...), Invisibility or similar - failing that, knock 'em with Displacement instead, or Glitterdust the opponent and hope they fail their save. Keep a scroll of Revivify handy.

This is because there's no such thing as an "efficient heal" on those levels. There's no such thing as an efficient heal until you acquire the spell "Heal" and later "Mass Heal". Once the Druid learns Summon Nature's Ally IV (on level 7), she can summon an Unicorn if you need a healbot - that's quite efficient since the unicorn lasts for a while and doubles as a proficient combatant. Before then, just get 'em outta there and try to use summons to take some hits if possible.

Also, hit fast and hard - try not to let opponent hit back if possible. There's always that one weak save (unless talking about Dragons, but I trust you don't face Dragons constantly), so try to figure it out with your Knowledges and hit it (Glitterdust if Will, Web is Ref, Stinking Cloud if Fort). And yeah, if you have the chance, prepare for a bit before initiating combat. I don't see how this would happen very often, but if it does, take advantage.

Myrmex
2009-04-14, 06:11 PM
Maybe talk to your DM and ask if he can pull it back just a smidgen?

I'm fine with the current difficulty level; my hide, bluff, and gtfo spells are all fine. He's been decent enough to let me run around invisible without having enemies with see invis or glitterdust hitting me. The tanks, though, lack those abilities. I'm taking my sixth level as mindbender, so I have an IC reason to direct them for perfect party combat harmony, as opposed to us metagaming constantly.


Healing Belt is in Magic Item Compendium and costs 750gp a piece - never leave home without them. They have 3 charges per day, heal 2d8 for 1 charge, 3d8 for 2 or 4d8 for 3.

I think this will be what we go with.


One approach you might want to consider is pulling the near-dead guy the hell out of there. Benign Transposition (although I don't see Spell Compendium/Complete Arcane on your list of books...), Invisibility or similar - failing that, knock 'em with Displacement instead, or Glitterdust the opponent and hope they fail their save. Keep a scroll of Revivify handy.

Good calls. I'll start putting blur on the warblade, too. I'll see if the DM will let me buy a scroll of two of benign transposition. We'll see.


This is because there's no such thing as an "efficient heal" on those levels. There's no such thing as an efficient heal until you acquire the spell "Heal" and later "Mass Heal". Once the Druid learns Summon Nature's Ally IV (on level 7), she can summon an Unicorn if you need a healbot - that's quite efficient since the unicorn lasts for a while and doubles as a proficient combatant. Before then, just get 'em outta there and try to use summons to take some hits if possible.

Yeah... other than heal or some sort of reach-chain-cure wounds, I didn't know of any efficient ways to spend an action and heal a bunch of HP to a bunch of people. I'll be getting 3rd level spells, though, which means better battlefield control. Legion of Sentinals + warblade with trip should liquify most opponents. Having to fight arcane casters with 3rd level spells, but lacking them yourself, has been really rough.


Also, hit fast and hard - try not to let opponent hit back if possible. There's always that one weak save (unless talking about Dragons, but I trust you don't face Dragons constantly), so try to figure it out with your Knowledges and hit it (Glitterdust if Will, Web is Ref, Stinking Cloud if Fort). And yeah, if you have the chance, prepare for a bit before initiating combat. I don't see how this would happen very often, but if it does, take advantage.

Web and Stinking Cloud aren't on my spell list, and their saves from wand or scroll aren't worth writing home about. Also, they're expensive to be using all the time.

Chronos
2009-04-14, 06:30 PM
Yet another option is for the Warblade to take Martial Study for one of the Devoted Spirit healing strikes. They heal a little less damage than the equivalent spells, but they're efficient in the sense that you still get to make an attack when you use them.

Eldariel
2009-04-14, 06:34 PM
Web and Stinking Cloud aren't on my spell list, and their saves from wand or scroll aren't worth writing home about. Also, they're expensive to be using all the time.

Meh, missed that you're a Beguiler, not a Wizard. Web is possibly worth Wandifying - it's just that good (it's efficient even on a successful save). But as you said, it also costs a lot.

Frosty
2009-04-14, 08:48 PM
Don't go for healing. Go for prevention and also go for killing the other dudes. Displacement will be the best thing that has ever happened for your melee types. It's effectively DR 50% vs anything with an attack roll.

Saph
2009-04-14, 09:55 PM
In-combat healing can work in 3.5, but it only works if the enemy is NOT beating on your ally at the same time that you're trying to heal him.

In-combat healing is most useful in long, running battles, e.g. a sniper duel from building to building where both sides are staying out of LoS. If you're standing toe to toe and trading full attacks, healing is . . . less good. In this situation I would suggest the related cousin of healing, namely the "GTFO" action. When a PC is down to 20% HP or less, they should be backpedalling out of the fight and other members should be rotating in.

Displacement and all the other nice buffs beguilers have are good too, but note that you do need to cast then before the tanks get the stuffing beaten out of them, not after (which is actually quite difficult and requires teamwork).

Other good options are Blinding Colour Surge (blind the monster a round and give yourself invisibility to move in with), Silent/Minor/Major Image (distract the bad guy from hitting your friend) and casting Mirror Image and standing between your buddy and the monster (note: prolonged standing-in-front-of-monsters may be hazardous to health). Haste/Slow are good too.

- Saph

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-04-14, 10:13 PM
As a Beguiler, you have one of the best caster-nullifiers in your inventory... Silence. Unless the opponents have Silent Spell, and are either spontaneous or specifically prepared Silent spells, he is pretty much stuck as a commonoid.

Island of Blades + Spiked Chain = everyone fall down now. Even if you take a 5' step, you STILL fall down. Combine with Power Attack/Shock Trooper for maximum effectiveness (since a spiked chain is a two-handed weapon).

Flickerdart
2009-04-14, 10:28 PM
Next level, take Leadership, and bag a Contemplative Cleric cohort twinked out for healing. Since he'll be completely useless in combat (make sure of it) other than the healing, your DM should let him slide. If he doesn't, make the case that you want to do something in combat other than shoot CLWs, and you'll stop healing them until he lets you have one or they smarten up.

Frosty
2009-04-14, 10:43 PM
In-combat healing can work in 3.5, but it only works if the enemy is NOT beating on your ally at the same time that you're trying to heal him.

In-combat healing is most useful in long, running battles, e.g. a sniper duel from building to building where both sides are staying out of LoS. If you're standing toe to toe and trading full attacks, healing is . . . less good. In this situation I would suggest the related cousin of healing, namely the "GTFO" action. When a PC is down to 20% HP or less, they should be backpedalling out of the fight and other members should be rotating in.

Displacement and all the other nice buffs beguilers have are good too, but note that you do need to cast then before the tanks get the stuffing beaten out of them, not after (which is actually quite difficult and requires teamwork).

Other good options are Blinding Colour Surge (blind the monster a round and give yourself invisibility to move in with), Silent/Minor/Major Image (distract the bad guy from hitting your friend) and casting Mirror Image and standing between your buddy and the monster (note: prolonged standing-in-front-of-monsters may be hazardous to health). Haste/Slow are good too.

- Saph

All good advice. Also, use Advanced Learning to learn Ray of Dizziness. It limits the opponent to one Move OR Standard action a turn...and offers no save! Combine it with a Lesser Rod of Chain, and you've got a no-save Slow effectively. Your melee types will thank you that the enemy can only attack once.

Glyphic
2009-04-14, 11:04 PM
Island of Blades + Spiked Chain = everyone fall down now. Even if you take a 5' step, you STILL fall down. Combine with Power Attack/Shock Trooper for maximum effectiveness (since a spiked chain is a two-handed weapon).

That's Thicket of blades, by the by.

ericgrau
2009-04-17, 03:30 PM
I'll agree that getting enough healing done is difficult. If the severely wounded can rotate out and chug a potion or eat a major heal from you that'll help more. Just so he doesn't die; expect the whole party to get hurt regardless. Disabling baddies with debuffs or barriers, killing them, etc. will do more the rest of the time.

mostlyharmful
2009-04-18, 07:47 AM
Lets get this straight.... you're party members expect you to be the party bitch/bandaid dispite you not having anything in class to help you with it because they're too gung-ho about combat to think about their own effectiveness/AC? how is this your problem, your job as the beguiler is trapfinder/skillmonkey/BattlefieldControl. do that.

If the druid doesn't cast buffs on themselves, doesn't use their AC properly and doesn't work as part of a team with your abilitie being demanded to keep them alive then what they need is to be sat down (in character) and told that you aren't going to bail them out just because they're being suicidal. They're a Druid not a monk for friks-sake, at level 5 they should already be a damn strong character that doens't need constant hand holding.

For the Warblade it's a slightly less bitter pill to swallow but not much of one, yes decent armour is crucial (any tank that hasn't got a decent AC or way to control the battlefield into not being hit by this point ought to have been slapped by his teammates), as are items, feats or manuvers they can use themselves to stay alive in combat..... It's their job to make themselves durable in combat with a minimal expectation of healing beyound sudden and completely unexpected DM shinaniganns.

Long post short, it's their problem not yours and you should tell them so. This isn't your job, it's not what you're good at, it isn't what you signned up for and it's not fun. tell them so.

Also, bear in mind that every time it's you not the druid that does the healing you're eating through money the party could be using on something more efficient and longterm. UMD is a cool skill and it's great to stretch beyound what you're core built around but it's not a longterm thinking plan so much as a desperate bailout.

Who_Da_Halfling
2009-04-18, 12:11 PM
Lets get this straight.... you're party members expect you to be the party bitch/bandaid dispite you not having anything in class to help you with it because they're too gung-ho about combat to think about their own effectiveness/AC? how is this your problem, your job as the beguiler is trapfinder/skillmonkey/BattlefieldControl. do that.

If the druid doesn't cast buffs on themselves, doesn't use their AC properly and doesn't work as part of a team with your abilitie being demanded to keep them alive then what they need is to be sat down (in character) and told that you aren't going to bail them out just because they're being suicidal. They're a Druid not a monk for friks-sake, at level 5 they should already be a damn strong character that doens't need constant hand holding.

For the Warblade it's a slightly less bitter pill to swallow but not much of one, yes decent armour is crucial (any tank that hasn't got a decent AC or way to control the battlefield into not being hit by this point ought to have been slapped by his teammates), as are items, feats or manuvers they can use themselves to stay alive in combat..... It's their job to make themselves durable in combat with a minimal expectation of healing beyound sudden and completely unexpected DM shinaniganns.

Long post short, it's their problem not yours and you should tell them so. This isn't your job, it's not what you're good at, it isn't what you signned up for and it's not fun. tell them so.

Also, bear in mind that every time it's you not the druid that does the healing you're eating through money the party could be using on something more efficient and longterm. UMD is a cool skill and it's great to stretch beyound what you're core built around but it's not a longterm thinking plan so much as a desperate bailout.

Ditto. Even my party's cleric got tired of people's poor tactics and announced loudly that if they didn't explicitly ask her for healing, she was going to assume they were fine and would do something more fun and interesting, like Summoning something.

Of course, she's single-handedly ended the last two encounters with Slay Living, so she's basically the best character in the group.

I'd advise that you take a tack similar to my cleric's. Your job is not to heal people. Your job is to make combat easier by incapping people.

You could avoid making it look like you're a jerk by waiting until AFTER they get dropped (but not killed) before healing them. That way you have a chance to use your incapacitating spells but still keep your friends on their feet.

...unless your DM is the type to have your enemies coup you once you're down. Then that's probably a bad idea.

-JM

Myrmex
2009-04-18, 09:37 PM
Who_Da_Halfling & mostlyharmful-
You've really just reiterated my problem and my sentiments, and your suggestions aren't really all that useful. Letting 2/3 of the party die isn't fun, for anyone.

Also, using wands of CLW is the most efficient way (out of battle), outside of wands of lesser vigor, to heal. The wand of CSW I'm using was loot, so wouldn't vendor for enough to make up for the utility of emergency in combat heals. The druid's spell slots, in our party's opinion, are far more valuable than a few HPs of healing.

Anyway, we've hit level 6, and the Warblade took leadership. He has a cloistered cleric cohort of Cuthbert. Would have gone with Pelor, but couldn't find any of those. He's sort of the party scribe, besides filling the roll of bandaid. He's got augment healing, which is a spectacular feat.

I took versatile spellcaster as my 6th level feat, which gives me a lot more high level spell slots (and 4th level spells!!). In one battle, I used Legion of Sentinels to great effect- I did as much damage as the rest of the party combined! 3rd level control spells and buffs are awesome. Solid Fog pretty much let's me pause an encounter, point to the druid and say "please cast, this, this, and this, in this order, since you didn't think to cast any of those before we kicked down this door."

A level of Mindbender gives me telepathy of 100ft, which allows for much better coordination of party members. The haste speed bonus lets us get around much faster, and turning two level 1 spells into a level 2 lets me invis the whole party, so we can move around and rearrange, mostly silently (leopards are pretty quiet). Lets me get warblades out of danger. Invisibility sphere, before we go into a known hostile place, or retreating, also is of awesome utility.

Basically, 3rd level spells are totally sweet and in combat healing isn't such a problem anymore because I am totally awesome.

arguskos
2009-04-19, 02:10 AM
Sorry for being SOOOO late to the party, but I'm super curious, where is Versatile Spellcaster from?

Also, as for healing, if you still need some, I'd like to toss out the suggestion for the Belts being cheap and awesome. Further, and I KNOW this isn't a popular suggestion, but really, talk with the cleric cohort about making potions in big batches, since with his Augmented Healing feat he can make cheapo potions of Cure X Wounds. It's just a thought, since giving everyone a few decent Cure Medium potions w/ Augmented Healing is great for in-combat healing if you HAVE to have it.

Fizban
2009-04-19, 03:33 AM
Don't forget that you can wear multiple belts at once, and the last one put on takes precedence automatically. So buy three belts and wear them all at once; when you use one up just rip it off with a move action and keep going!

Kind of off topic, but could you link me to the errata that has the rest of the Legion of Sentinals spell? I have no idea where it is.

mostlyharmful
2009-04-19, 03:56 AM
You've really just reiterated my problem and my sentiments, and your suggestions aren't really all that useful. Letting 2/3 of the party die isn't fun, for anyone.

You seem to have missed the point which was that this is a tactical problem not a logistical one, the solution is to talk to your friends about how to stay alive not in finding an uberbroken spell or item which will just shove the problem downstream a level or two.

Talking to your friends about how the role they have forced you into isn't much fun isn't the same as letting them die, just pick your time to do it in such a way as the problem is obvious while they aren't going to get ganked in the next sixty seconds.

If this doesn't seem like what you are asking for then I'm sorry but I don't think the solution to your problem is in just finding a way to be a more efficient in combat healer. Since you've now picked up a cohort and you're having fun again this isn't a problem but this is probably going to come back within a few level ups if you don't get your team mates to change their playstyle, only then it'll be constant raise deads rather than in combat healing as the level ups will make it even more of a stretch to keep them running on cure wounds in a fight.

Myrmex
2009-04-19, 11:40 PM
We're getting better at working as a team and using our abilities. The druid's player is new to the game, has a lot of options each round, and doesn't always choose the best one. So, until we can all figure out the right strategy (as well as properly assess the risk of opponents and prioritization of actions), there is the logistical problem of not dying. People tend to get hurt in combat, and without the ability to end combat quickly, a hurt player ends up a dead player. Melee opponents that will kill the warblade with a full attack, when blinded, only require two full attacks to kill him. The warblade has difficulty returning that sort of damage.

But 6th level's really changed a lot. Our new feats and my beguiler's new spells means we can brute force it a lot better- AoE control spells.