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DUSUCK
2009-04-17, 12:55 PM
Hello my fellow playgrounders I was just thinking about an epic level 30 forgotten realms game we are playing, I was thinking about making a dwarven female. I was thinking about a palidan and I seem to remember my brother telling me about a variant paladin called a shield paladin though I cannot for the life of me find it.

Does this variant exist?

Where can I find it?

herrhauptmann
2009-04-17, 12:59 PM
Maybe he meant a Shield Dwarf Paladin. Shield dwarves are one of the varieties of dwarves in the FR, and either they, or the 'Gold Dwarf' are the PHB standard. One receives a -2 to Dex instead of Cha, which definitely can help out a paladin with his abilities.
Two other variants, ones which I haven't actually seen used are a non-spellcasting paladin. And a paladin which is used as a prestige class.

DUSUCK
2009-04-17, 01:02 PM
Maybe he meant a Shield Dwarf Paladin. Shield dwarves are one of the varieties of dwarves in the FR, and either they, or the 'Gold Dwarf' are the PHB standard. One receives a -2 to Dex instead of Cha, which definitely can help out a paladin with his abilities.
Two other variants, ones which I haven't actually seen used are a non-spellcasting paladin. And a paladin which is used as a prestige class.

Hmmmm possibly but I don't think so.

AmberVael
2009-04-17, 01:26 PM
Here is a very large list of all paladin variants and substitution levels.
Linky. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12590298&postcount=4)

As far as I can tell there is no such thing as a shield paladin.
It may be a specific build or homebrew paladin, but if that is the case it will probably be so obscure that you are not likely to find it.

DUSUCK
2009-04-17, 01:31 PM
Here is a very large list of all paladin variants and substitution levels.
Linky. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12590298&postcount=4)

As far as I can tell there is no such thing as a shield paladin.
It may be a specific build or homebrew paladin, but if that is the case it will probably be so obscure that you are not likely to find it.

hmmmmm ok well thanks then.


Are there any good shield based classes?

Person_Man
2009-04-17, 01:48 PM
Are there any good shield based classes?

Not really.

You need any source of Turn or Rebuke Undead and high Cha, as there are 2-3 useful shield feats which are fueled by them. The Knight gets a +3 bonus to your shield AC. There are a few other useful shield feats out there. But there's really no class or prestige class that's built around using a shield. So Paladin is probably your best bet overall.

Also be mindful that at Epic levels full casters are bending reality to their whim, and you're hitting stuff with a hunk of metal. So you might want to ask your DM for some ridiculous Special Mount or templates or whatnot to balance out the playing field.

DUSUCK
2009-04-17, 01:54 PM
Yeah I guess also is there any kind of fighter paladin ascetic feat?

DUSUCK
2009-04-17, 02:05 PM
double post

erikun
2009-04-17, 10:23 PM
Shield Dwarves are the "basic" dwarf from 3e Forgotten Realms. The Gold Dwarf is the -2 Dex, +2 Con variant that makes a bit better Paladins (and Clerics). There are a few other differences, but the penality to Dex rather than Cha is the big one.

Thunder Twin is a feat from the same book that gives you a bonus to all Cha-related bonuses and checks. That could be what you're referring to.

As for Shield-based classes, nope. Clerics can make okay shieldfighters, with their high AC and healing. There are a number of shield-based feats, making a Fighter a decent option. Plus, I'm a fan of the Dwarven Defender for shieldfighters, for much the same reason as Clerics: good defenses (AC bonus, DR, Uncanny Dodge) that all works with heavy armor.

The Runecaster PrC also comes to mind - if I recall, they can apply spells to objects to go off later. Shocking Grasp Shield Bash! Speaking of which, I'm sure other gish classes (ie. Spellsword) can apply their abilities to a shield without a problem.

Hida Reju
2009-04-17, 10:57 PM
Sheilds only retain their usefulness for so long without some serious optimization. Some take it a two weapon fighting route with the combat feats but still it remains a bit on the weak side.

Some tricks are to enchant shield spikes with Defending to improve the AC even more then use greater magic weapon to boost its "Enhancement" bonus to then shift to more AC.

Another problem is the paladin's lack of an ability to force the enemy to deal with them instead of another party member. Knights at least have their challenge ability to attempt to force someone to attack. To focus on defense is often at the expense of meaningful offence and must be balanced carefully.

erikun
2009-04-17, 11:04 PM
Actually, I'm pretty sure you can put Defending on the attacking side, then Bashing on the shield side - basically allowing you to swing between a +10 weapon to a +10 shield. It costs a lot, but last I checked, the spikes are enchanted seperately from the shield itself, so you can have a +5 Bashing +5 Defending Spiked Shield, as odd as it sounds.

<edit> I guess I misremembered what Bashing does - it just increases the base damage; it doesn't allow you to transfer +1's from defense to offense. Aww...
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicArmor.htm#bashing

Races of Stone had a few other shields, now that I think about it - a Bladed Shield with axeblades on the sides, and a Tortoise Shield that had a punching dagger build into it. Other things to consider, if you have the book.

VirOath
2009-04-18, 03:24 AM
That's also in Complete Warrior. Dwarven Buckler Axe and Gnomish Shell Spike(Or something). Normally exotic weapons to be used properly, but you can exchange a racial weapon for them (Like giving up the Dwarven Waraxe for the Buckler Axe as a martial weapon)


Edit: I can remember the Buckler Axe. Same as buckler, but you can also use it to attack as though a Hand Axe, counts as a light weapon, you lose the AC bonus for the round you attack with it. I had a character get them enchanted with Throwing and Returning once. Razor Discs of Doom!