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Skaroq
2009-04-17, 03:13 PM
I've been planning a great campaign for a few months now, and I've just got all the players together. Our first session starts tomorrow. The problem is this:
One of the players is a half-elf paladin. He is completely new to the game, just finished reading the Player's Handbook a couple days ago. Another player has no experience either, but he's done extensive D&D research and can roleplay very well. That player's PC is a Chaotic Neutral high elf wizard that absolutely loathes paladins, since his brother was a paladin and wounded him once for commiting an Evil act. The high elf PC's reason for traveling with the party is to track down his brother and collect some magic item his brother has for the Mage's Guild. So I have a PC that despises paladins, but there's going to be a paladin in the party. Not only that, but the player himself dislikes paladins. What should I do? I'm very worried, since the first session starts tomorrow. Please give me advice!

Tsotha-lanti
2009-04-17, 03:30 PM
It sounds unlikely that the players will be capable of handling this intra-party conflict in a way that is enjoyable, so you forbid it. The other player has no business using his game preferences as in-character motivations/traits, generally, and needs to create a character that will work with the party (or conflict in ways that are enjoyable for everyone). In most RPGs - D&D among them - you're supposed to create a bunch of PCs who work together well. Conflict between PCs is acceptable only if it is enjoyed by everyone, including the GM and the players who aren't directly involved; so it must not eat up too much time and must not detract from the meat of the game.

TheCountAlucard
2009-04-17, 03:38 PM
First, let me say that you do seem to be in a pickle. I certainly hope that you can successfully divert this potential crisis.

Just remember, "Paladin" is no more an in-game term than "Dread Necromancer." Just because the player has levels in the Paladin class doesn't mean he has to call himself one. Likewise, a character could have levels in the Samurai class, and still call himself a Paladin. It would seem nonsensical for the CN PC to dislike a character class, since character classes don't actually exist in-game. He might hate a certain group of Paladins, like the Order of Pelor's Hand or somesuch; that much would make sense.

As for the player not liking paladins, talk to him about it. Ask him what his beef is with the class; perhaps ask him to tone it down a bit, if possible. Maybe ask him to have his character focus more on the brother aspect of his hatred, instead of the paladin part.

Count Chumleigh
2009-04-17, 03:44 PM
Situations like this are why I always have my players create their characters together--or at least email each other with what they'd like to play if we can't all meet for character creation. But since character creation is over with, I heartily recommend informing both players of this conflict, informing them that you'll brook no PCs-killing-PCs, and trust them to act like civilized human beings and work out a compromise between themselves.

Now that that's out of the way, here's some observations regarding your player's wizard character:

First, no offense to your player, but based on what you've written about him he did not do the research and cannot roleplay well. Unless every paladin in your game self-identifies as "Paladin" and is clearly labeled as such, there's no way your player's wizard would be able to hate paladins. "Paladin" is a class, a game mechanic used to represent a certain, well, class of characters who have the same in-game mechanical abilities (or class features).

Instead of hating "paladins," your player's wizard might hate "those steel-clad, holier-than-thou thugs who put on airs and go around 'Smiting The Wicked' just because you summon one lousy imp." Or he might hate the church his brother belongs to. Or he might just hate his brother.

Second, for you and your player's sake, I hope "his brother was a paladin and wounded him once for committing an Evil act" is just your summary of his backstory, and not what he told you verbatim. Because if it is, it raises a lot more concerns.

I mean, his brother "wounded" him?! Maybe you and I read "wounded" differently, but when I see "wound," I think serious bodily harm. That's not something you just comment on as happening "once," that's something you talk about for the rest of your life! Also, the character was wounded "for committing an Evil act?" What kind of Evil act? I made some assumptions earlier, about summoning "one lousy imp," but there's plenty of "Evil act[s]" a character can get up to in D&D. Without more information, I'd say summoning one lousy imp is just as likely as devouring a newborn baby.

Finally, I'm not too sure his brother is likely to remain a paladin for very long, assuming the wizard only committed the one evil act and it wasn't well-poisoning or live-baby-eating.

Cheers,
--Count Chumleigh

Tengu_temp
2009-04-17, 03:47 PM
Talking together seems to be the best idea. Also, on a sidenote, I've yet to meet a mature paladin-hater.

snoopy13a
2009-04-17, 03:47 PM
I've been planning a great campaign for a few months now, and I've just got all the players together. Our first session starts tomorrow. The problem is this:
One of the players is a half-elf paladin. He is completely new to the game, just finished reading the Player's Handbook a couple days ago. Another player has no experience either, but he's done extensive D&D research and can roleplay very well. That player's PC is a Chaotic Neutral high elf wizard that absolutely loathes paladins, since his brother was a paladin and wounded him once for commiting an Evil act. The high elf PC's reason for traveling with the party is to track down his brother and collect some magic item his brother has for the Mage's Guild. So I have a PC that despises paladins, but there's going to be a paladin in the party. Not only that, but the player himself dislikes paladins. What should I do? I'm very worried, since the first session starts tomorrow. Please give me advice!

One of them should change characters, especially since you'll have inter-party conflict when the wizard tries to take the item from the NPC paladin.

Simply say that the party needs to get along IC and one of them needs to reroll. If neither wants to, make both of them reroll.

Learnedguy
2009-04-17, 04:02 PM
Well, this is DnD, so even the pettiest conflict will either A; Lead to one of them killing the other or B; Endless mindgames that don't lead anywhere until they reach the point where they just go A on the other guy.

So yeah, make it clear that they are to play nice, or you'll play mean.

Xuincherguixe
2009-04-17, 04:12 PM
Sounds to me like he had one bad experience. Which is probably all the more reason why it would be good if he could work with a Paladin that does it right.

My thought is, that the two should try and compromise. Such as, the Thief won't perform any atrocities, but the Paladin won't go postal if the Thief steals from a beggar.

This is not to say they don't argue, but everyone agrees to fight in a civil, reasonable fashion. Which is to say a lot of vicious sounding words but no stab to the kidneys or righteous smoting.

Godskook
2009-04-17, 04:57 PM
Here's a thought:

How about making it a story feature. Talk to the group's paladin ahead of time, and arrange for his entire order to be hunting down rogue elven paladins, with the wizard's brother being one of them. Arrange for the PC paladin to side with the wizard in important places, much akin to how V and Roy would side with Belkar against Miko. Do it right, and you give the wizard a chance to like at least one paladin, and as a bonus, you get a character made boss battle, all set up for you.

Admittedly, I don't know if that's possible with your players, but it is definitely worth considering. If your wizard PC can't live with something like that, he needs to re-roll.

Skaroq
2009-04-17, 05:45 PM
Thanks for the advice, guys. I'll talk to him and have him revise his backstory. I didn't really get it too well either. @snoopy: Actually, I was just agreeing on the "powerful magic item" story as a lure. There's going to be a big story twist when they meet up with the NPC paladin. I was planning on having the players find the charred remains of the paladin, because he sacrificed himself to keep the item from falling into the wrong hands. The item in particular explodes in a gigantic blaze of destruction rivaling that of a nuclear bomb when you break it, and the paladin had been surrounded by a fiendish blackguard and his minions. So the paladin broke the magic item and killed himself, the blackguard's minions, and the blackguard in the blast. But I'm having some doubts about this outcome, because obviously the players will be disappointed. I think maybe I'll change the wizard's paladin brother to a demon summoner or something like that. He's probably seeking revenge against his brother because the, um.....infernomancer(that sounds right) subjected him to a fiendish experiment, causing hellish pain on the wizard's part. The wizard wants to kill his brother in the most painful way possible, because he's trigger-happy and easily provoked. Think that's okay?

monty
2009-04-17, 06:06 PM
If it exploded as a nuclear bomb, there won't be too many remains for them to find. Unless you were exaggerating, of course :smalltongue:

Stormageddon
2009-04-17, 06:57 PM
Talking together seems to be the best idea. Also, on a sidenote, I've yet to meet a mature paladin-hater.

I think in most cases I've come across "paladin-haters." Really hate the people they've played with that have been paladins. I know it gets a bad rap because most people I've seen play paladins like Miko, but done right paladins can be fun. I've played a paladin didn't fall, and people in my group didn't hate me afterwards for it.

Choco
2009-04-17, 07:20 PM
Just have the paladin's player play a crusader instead :smallwink:

Renegade Paladin
2009-04-17, 07:25 PM
Smite the paladin-hater with extreme prejudice.

What? :smalltongue:

Skaroq
2009-04-17, 09:37 PM
If it exploded as a nuclear bomb, there won't be too many remains for them to find. Unless you were exaggerating, of course :smalltongue:

Yup, that's me. I was exaggerating. It was pretty much the equivalent of the Death Throes of a Balor or Pit Fiend.

Blackguard: Bwahahaha! Nothing can stop me from killing you now!
Paladin: *snaps item in half*
Blackguard: Sonova-
Item: ZAPPLE DAPPLE DOOM!!!

Olo Demonsbane
2009-04-17, 10:19 PM
Zapple Dapple Doom? :smalltongue:

Skaroq
2009-04-17, 10:30 PM
Zapple Dapple Doom? :smalltongue:

From this (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/442704).

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-04-17, 11:07 PM
I think in most cases I've come across "paladin-haters." Really hate the people they've played with that have been paladins. I know it gets a bad rap because most people I've seen play paladins like Miko, but done right paladins can be fun. I've played a paladin didn't fall, and people in my group didn't hate me afterwards for it.This. I've had good Paladins in my groups before, ones who look at being good as a burden rather than a benefit, but the number who use their stick to hit other players can grate. I'll never hate pally's because of the fact that my first encounter with one was closer to Hinjo than Miko, but for those who ran into a SMITE THE PICKPOCKET one, it's understandable that they would be soured on the class.