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Asbestos
2009-04-17, 10:23 PM
My FLGS put out the books early so... I have my copy of Arcane Power.

Haven't been able to read it all the way through, but what I can say...

The new bardic virtue is interesting in that it seems almost more defender than leader to me. Basically it allows a 1/encounter immediate interrupt bonus to the defense of an ally under attack and most of the attacks that go with it are also focused on immediate interrupts.

Familiars... I like.

Swordmages get a big boost, and the Sword of Assault PP really helps out with the relatively low damage the class puts out.


Any questions?

erikun
2009-04-17, 10:29 PM
Yes, what is the most awesome thing in it. :smallbiggrin:

The 1/enc interrupt bonus doesn't seem to defendery to me - no more than the Wizard's Shield, anyways. Heck, I think that handing out bonuses to others to be the Leader's job, after all. :smalltongue: Beyond that, I'll probably leaf through it tomorrow to get a better idea of what to ask about.

How did the Warlock Cosmos Pact turn out?

tcrudisi
2009-04-17, 10:35 PM
Just one question: Do you live anywhere near Greensboro, NC? If so, I want to know the address to that store so I can drive down there first thing in the morning.

RTGoodman
2009-04-17, 10:36 PM
I'll bite. Do we get to see any fun old spells making their return for Wizards or Sorcerers?


Just one question: Do you live anywhere near Greensboro, NC? If so, I want to know the address to that store so I can drive down there first thing in the morning.

Dude, there's a Playgrounder from near me? I'm down in the Thomasville/High Point/Wallburg area.

Asbestos
2009-04-17, 10:43 PM
Well, yes, but shield is personal. Also, a number of the virtue of prescience attack powers are immediate interrupts against attacking enemies.

The Vestige Pact is interesting, of the two primary vestiges one seems more leadery (pact boon is a bonus to defense for allies, the augment on the at-will allows an ally a saving throw when they attack the target) and the other is all about boosting the Warlock's Prime Shot feature. The at-will is nice without the augments in that it allows an extra curse to be placed in a round (which is useful if you don't have a rod of corruption) Also, a few of the powers have different effects depending on what pact you have. As in, a power will have rider effect X if you're Fey Pact and rider effect Y is you're Dark Pact (Fey and Dark are the most often doubled up in powers, I think Infernal/Vestige shows up once)

tcrudisi
2009-04-17, 10:47 PM
I'll bite. Do we get to see any fun old spells making their return for Wizards or Sorcerers?



Dude, there's a Playgrounder from near me? I'm down in the Thomasville/High Point/Wallburg area.

/Thread hijack:
I'd love to say I know where Thomasville and Wallburg are, but I don't. I'm a UNC-G student that hasn't explored the area around here, though I do go to High Point to do my 4e gaming on Saturdays.
/end Thread hijack

Asbestos
2009-04-17, 10:55 PM
I'll bite. Do we get to see any fun old spells making their return for Wizards or Sorcerers?


Wizards have...

Prismatic Wall (level 29 Daily)
Wall of Force (level 22 Utility)
Globe of Invulnerability (level 22 Utility)
True Seeing (level 10 Utility)
Glitterdust (level 5 Daily)
Grease (level 1 Daily)

Also, the Illusion spells from the Dragon article... reprinted and updated.

Not seeing anything in the Sorc list that screams classic to me.


@tcrudisi: Sorry, live up in NY

tcrudisi
2009-04-17, 10:59 PM
GLITTERDUST and Grease?!!! I'm in love!

Feel free to stat them out.

When is the official release date for Arcane Power, anyway? I thought it was supposed to be the 20th and then got pushed back to the 27th. Or am I mistaken?

ocato
2009-04-17, 11:03 PM
Does the off-hand implement damage feat from the Preview have any weird caveats? I'm kind of worried that it will let your add your off-hand implement's enhancement bonus to your damage 'up to your dexterity mod' or something.

Jokes
2009-04-18, 09:11 AM
Familiars- I think I have figured out most of the mechanics except for HP, is it the same as a Shaman's Spirit Companion?

Asbestos
2009-04-18, 11:17 AM
Does the off-hand implement damage feat from the Preview have any weird caveats? I'm kind of worried that it will let your add your off-hand implement's enhancement bonus to your damage 'up to your dexterity mod' or something.

Nope, add the off-hand implement's enhancement bonus to damage rolls. Both implements must be usable with the power and you must be capable of wielding both implements.


@Jokes: Familiars have minion HP when in active mode. They have 1 hp and a missed attack never damages them. If it is destroyed you can get it back with a short or extended rest.

Jokes
2009-04-18, 11:45 AM
@Jokes: Familiars have minion HP when in active mode. They have 1 hp and a missed attack never damages them. If it is destroyed you can get it back with a short or extended rest.

*facepalm* damn, I actually did know that...

Then I have nothing more that can't wait a couple more days :smallwink:

Oh, wait, multiclass feats. Anything new?

Aron Times
2009-04-18, 12:03 PM
Lelouch vi Britannia commands you! Tell us about the wizard and sorcerer paragon paths!

Asbestos
2009-04-19, 10:11 PM
Well, none of them are really jumping out at me, except for the Sorcerer PP that let's you shift 1 square when immobilized.

But, something I forgot to mention was that a number of Wizard powers have rider effects depending on what implement mastery you have. As well, there are 3 new forms of implement mastery. Orb of Deception (Cha-based, helps with illusion spells), Tome of Binding (Con-based, helps with Conjurations and Summons), and the Tome of Readiness (doesn't effect any spells or secondary stats, but it effectively allows you to know another encounter spell that you can cast at the expense of an encounter spell of an equal or higher level)

Colmarr
2009-04-19, 10:21 PM
Would you say that the Wizard powers help shift the Wizard more into the controller realm (ie. more status effects)?


Orb of Deception (Cha-based, helps with illusion spells), Tome of Binding (Con-based, helps with Conjurations and Summons

Interesting. 3.5e-specialists-via-implement?

Asbestos
2009-04-21, 06:22 PM
Would you say that the Wizard powers help shift the Wizard more into the controller realm (ie. more status effects)?


The Illusion spells seem the most controllery to me and while the Summons and Conjurations do 'control' in a fashion, they do it in a way similar to a fighter, at least in my opinion.



Something I didn't mention, I love the little fluff boxes, especially in the Warlock chapter. I like how they describe shadow walk and the warlock curse and differentiate the Warlock's Prime Shot from the Ranger's. They also fluffily describe WHY you can normally only curse the nearest enemy or only use Prime Shot against an enemy closer to you than anyone else, which is something that was lacking originally.

For Shadow Walk, a Warlock moving in combat (or out of combat if you like) is surrounded and obscured by some form of manifestation of their power. Examples include billowing sulfurous clouds around an Infernal Pact Warlock and sparks and light effects around a Fey Pact Warlock.

Colmarr
2009-04-21, 11:15 PM
Something I didn't mention, I love the little fluff boxes, especially in the Warlock chapter.

I must admit that my favourite parts of Martial Power were the insets detailing what sort of fighters each race favoured. It was good to see that someone at WotC was pondering the same things I do. :smallamused:

Reinboom
2009-04-22, 01:13 AM
Picked up mine, and first reactions:
Bard: Ok. Skimmed.
Sorcerer: This is not interesting to me. Just, meh.
Swordmage: A much needed boost... and hey! Good paragons! :D
Warlock: no opinion, skimmed.
Wizard: no opinion, skimmed.

(I got this mainly for the sorcerer and swordmage, as well as possible epic destinies and rituals, so, I will get back to these classes when I get time).

Familiars: I was quite unimpressed by these at first. However, after extended consideration, I've come to rather enjoy the redo of this concept - much more, at least, than previous familiar iterations.
There are two things I would like to change immediately with them, however.
1. Change familiar feat requirements to trained in Arcana rather be an Arcane class.
2. Require a healing surge to 'respawn' a familiar after the short rest instead of no loss.

Next, epic classes.
Most are 'neat'. Arcane Sword is very nifty, and seems decently good. (Keep attacking after you're dead! Then come back!)
Others, such as Sage of Ages, is very meh. "Yay, loremaster! But without the power of 3.x to back it up!"
However, one, I immediately see as horrid. The Lord of Fate.
First, I can't stand alignment restrictions. In this case, unaligned. For the most part, I thought they stopped marrying these things to mechanics, and seeing this again as a requirement bothers me - especially to a class of such power. Paladins at least made sense to me, you choose the benefits at the begin - this epic however, goes back in to 'plan for it'.

Next... the 21st level ability. Turnabout allows you to choose a creature you see when you roll init. For the encounter, any condition they impose with an attack, they automatically impose on themselves. There is no attack for this. There are no exceptions.
Stunners lock themselves, beholders petrify themselves...

Asbestos
2009-04-22, 01:32 AM
However, one, I immediately see as horrid. The Lord of Fate.
First, I can't stand alignment restrictions. In this case, unaligned. For the most part, I thought they stopped marrying these things to mechanics, and seeing this again as a requirement bothers me - especially to a class of such power. Paladins at least made sense to me, you choose the benefits at the begin - this epic however, goes back in to 'plan for it'.

Its nothing new. There is at least one PP I can think of off the top of my head that has an alignment requirement. Secondly, 'Unaligned' is hardly a restriction and doesn't really require planning since, beyond the RP (which based off the fluff for Lord of Fate you're going to be Unaligned there anyway) alignment doesn't do jack-squattery. No more are there spells that only affect the bad guys or good guys or unlawful guys, no more can people look at you and know where you're going when you die.

I agree with the meh on the sorc stuff, I like the PPs, but the new features... whatev. I think this is mainly because the ones in the PHB2 are so awesome. I mean, Wild magic and Dragon magic? Awesome. Storm magic and Cosmic magic? Less impressive.

Colmarr
2009-04-22, 01:38 AM
Turnabout allows you to choose a creature you see when you roll init. For the encounter, any condition they impose with an attack, they automatically impose on themselves. There is no attack for this. There are no exceptions. Stunners lock themselves, beholders petrify themselves...

*blink*

*blink*

Really?

How did that ever get published?

Unless there's more to it than that, it would appear that The Lords of Fate could be the new Orcus-killers.

Oracle_Hunter
2009-04-22, 01:40 AM
*blink*

*blink*

Really?

How did that every get published?

Unless there's more to it than that, it would appear that The Lords of Fate could be the new Orcus-killers.
WotC still has a habit of publishing stupidly overpowered stuff for no good reason. I mean, Righteous Rage of Tempus? It's nigh-identical to the 11th level Divine Oracle power - and it's available at Level 1.

And let's not even get into the various orbs :smallsigh:

Colmarr
2009-04-22, 01:43 AM
I mean, Righteous Rage of Tempus? It's nigh-identical to the 11th level Divine Oracle power - and it's available at Level 1.

I seem to recall debating that assertion with you in the past, but let's not get into that here and now :smallsmile:

Let's simply say that we both see major problems with the Lord of Fate ability.

Asbestos
2009-04-22, 01:58 AM
*blink*

*blink*

Really?

How did that ever get published?

Unless there's more to it than that, it would appear that The Lords of Fate could be the new Orcus-killers.

Nope, until the end of the encounter. Now... is death a condition?

It is ludicrous... I guess Orcus needs to sneak up on the PCs now?

Burley
2009-04-22, 08:19 AM
I'm actually kind of impressed with the book. In places.

I like a lot of the Sorcerer powers. I thought I might try to convince my DM to let me switch from Chaos to Storm... until I saw the new Chaos PP. That's sick, and I want it.

Swordmages do get about 8 times more BA, in my opinion. I skimmed through them, though.

Wizards... Man... wizards... What happened? Tomes? Really? Man... They're not cool, at all. I hate that the inventory section is dedicated to tomes, too. What a waste of potential.

Familiars are amazing, though. A feat for a great roleplaying with some pretty solid bonuses? Yeah, thanks. The active forms are a little lack-luster, but it's a dangerous game to play, anyways, so, you don't even have to send it into active.

Some of the feats are really cool. I can't check my book now for any specifics (I'm at work), but I'll maybe edit during my lunch break.

Reverent-One
2009-04-22, 12:24 PM
Wizards... Man... wizards... What happened? Tomes? Really? Man... They're not cool, at all. I hate that the inventory section is dedicated to tomes, too. What a waste of potential.

Wait, what? You don't like that wizard's use books....?

Burley
2009-04-22, 03:00 PM
Hm... My edit didn't go through.

Anyways, Wizards: The Tomes, at second glance, seem okay. I don't like the style of conjuration... Not for me, really. Illusion, ironically, seems quite lack-luster (pun). They look extremely similar to warlock attacks, in my opinion.
What I still dislike is that they magic items section is 100% tomes. The PHB2 was extremely focused, as well, to my chagrin. I know they're saving it for the AV2, but... c'mon. Throw me a proverbial frickin' bone.

Expanding on Familiars: Awesome to the max! I love the rat, and I'll be taking that feat at next level. (19 dex, plus Thievery Training, plus Rat familiar=+11 thievery from 20squares away, +13 if it involves thieves tools, which they can use. All that, plus a flat +2 on Stealth checks.) The flat bonuses are very similar to 3.5, but there is a bit of extra flair to each one that makes them more than just a liability for a skill boost.

Sorerers: I'm playing a Chaos Sorcerer focusing on thunder spells. I saw the Storm Magic source and thought "Awesome." Then, I saw the Chaos Sorc's new PP. I have never been so happy with a blind choice in my life. I'm extremely excited for paragon levels now.

That's about it.

Reinboom
2009-04-22, 03:06 PM
Nope, until the end of the encounter. Now... is death a condition?

It is ludicrous... I guess Orcus needs to sneak up on the PCs now?

No, conditions are labeled out on page 277 of the phb:
Blinded, Dazed, Deafened, Dominated, Dying, Helpless, Immobilized, Marked, Petrified, Prone, Restrained, Slowed, Stunned, Surprised, Unconscious, Weakened.

It's also whatever the attack power imposes, not the tree of effects thereafter. Usually - unless it's a very... interesting power - effects that happen secondary (such as dying, surprised, and unconscious) are not included in this.

However, that still leads a crap load of effects that are rather silly.
Dominate each other!

Asbestos
2009-04-22, 07:45 PM
No, conditions are labeled out on page 277 of the phb:
Blinded, Dazed, Deafened, Dominated, Dying, Helpless, Immobilized, Marked, Petrified, Prone, Restrained, Slowed, Stunned, Surprised, Unconscious, Weakened.

It's also whatever the attack power imposes, not the tree of effects thereafter. Usually - unless it's a very... interesting power - effects that happen secondary (such as dying, surprised, and unconscious) are not included in this.

However, that still leads a crap load of effects that are rather silly.
Dominate each other!

So.. when Orcus hits someone with his immediate interrupt... he stuns himself.

Reverent-One
2009-04-22, 08:29 PM
Anyways, Wizards: The Tomes, at second glance, seem okay. I don't like the style of conjuration... Not for me, really. Illusion, ironically, seems quite lack-luster (pun). They look extremely similar to warlock attacks, in my opinion.
What I still dislike is that they magic items section is 100% tomes. The PHB2 was extremely focused, as well, to my chagrin. I know they're saving it for the AV2, but... c'mon. Throw me a proverbial frickin' bone.


Oh, I agree there, the magic item selection has been a problem since PHB 1. So many implements in any given book are specific to whichever class that uses them in the same book and are generally not helpful to any other class that uses said implements. Ran into that with my playtest artificer, wanted to use a rod, but I looked in the PHB 1 and pretty much every rod had effects that involved warlock powers, mostly curses, and that didn't improve really with the PHB II, in which most rods only work with divine classes. On the one hand, I kinda see the logic of this, a player doesn't have to look through 3 or 4 different books, even a year or two down the line to find a good implement for their class, but still, it's annoying.

Asbestos
2009-04-22, 10:01 PM
Although, maybe some Illusion focused Orbs or Storm/Cosmic Sorc implements or Vestige-type rods would be kind of sweet.

TheEmerged
2009-04-22, 10:26 PM
My opinions after a first pass through are as follows. Keep in mind, 3 of the 5 characters in our party are arcane (swordmage, wizard, and bard -- with a rogue and laser cleric).

LIKES: Of comparable quality level to Martial Power -- pretty much a must-buy if you're serious about 4th Ed. I see several feats that pretty much become must-have for the swordmage & wizard in our party.

DISLIKES: A few of those "must have" feats are just that -- must have. And I, for one, do not like "must have" feats; I'm a firm believer in FSBNNR (Feats Should Be Nice, Not Required). Also, I'm seeing too much recycled art (including one recycled as recently as the FRPG, I believe).

FAIL: I still see most wizard builds taking dual-classing just to get a 2nd level utility power that's worth taking. What's with all these wizard powers that require them to be next to opponents?

erikun
2009-04-22, 10:31 PM
Well, I did like what I saw for the Tomes - different spell options with the Implement ability, then even more spell options with the ones scribed in the magic Tomes! Or perhaps I'm reading it wrong; I just glanced over it, so it's possible.

On the other hand, the one-page for magical equipment (that is, just Tomes) was very disappointing. Apparently, WotC forgot that when you expect a caster to use a weapon, you should allow them to use it as an implement, too. I guess it wouldn't be too hard to convince your DM to give the Bard a Songbow, though.

Oracle_Hunter
2009-04-22, 10:32 PM
FAIL: I still see most wizard builds taking dual-classing just to get a 2nd level utility power that's worth taking. What's with all these wizard powers that require them to be next to opponents?
What's wrong with Shield or Expeditious Retreat? :smallconfused:

EDIT:

So.. when Orcus hits someone with his immediate interrupt... he stuns himself.
Maybe not. Is Turnabout an Immediate action?

Once per Round: You can take only one immediate action per round, either an immediate interrupt or an immediate reaction. If you havenít taken an immediate action since the end of your last turn, you can take one when a trigger allows you to. You canít take an immediate action on your own turn.

Asbestos
2009-04-22, 10:42 PM
What's wrong with Shield or Expeditious Retreat? :smallconfused:

Or Jump! Seriously, I've found jump far more useful than Shield. Oh noes! A monster is shooting at me! I could put up Shield and solve the problem for a single round... or I can Jump the fighter up in his face and solve the problem forever. Basically I've been using it to turn the fighter into the Six Million Dollar Bugbear. Also, Featherfall has saved lives more than a few times.



Edit:

Oracle Hunter: Turnabout is automatic once you smack it on a monster when you roll init. Every single time the monster imposes an effect on someone with an attack it also imposes that effect on itself, always ever, no save, no roll.

TheEmerged
2009-04-22, 10:54 PM
What's wrong with Shield or Expeditious Retreat? :smallconfused:

IMO, YMMV, and all relevant disclaimers.

Shield: triggered by being hit, and lasts only until the end of the wizard's next turn. Really only useful if the attack it interrupts (which targets AC or Ref) only hit by 1-4 points on the dice, or if the wizard expects to be hit repeatedly in a single round.

Expeditious Retreat: this is actually the Wizard Utility 2 power I see most builds taking -- and I don't see anything in Arcane Power changing that. It actually is marginally useful (unless you're an Eladrin; in practice teleporting 5 squares will usually be just as effective); the problem is that it's a Daily, and at least with my players they're so loathe to "risk wasting" Dailies that they tend not to use them unless I hang an obvious "only encounter today" or "this is Da Boss!" sign on the encounter :smallredface:

Again, YMMV. I was hoping for a better selection of utilities for wizards after some of the things I saw in Martial Power, it may be more a matter of my expectations.

Oracle_Hunter
2009-04-22, 11:04 PM
Shield: triggered by being hit, and lasts only until the end of the wizard's next turn. Really only useful if the attack it interrupts (which targets AC or Ref) only hit by 1-4 points on the dice, or if the wizard expects to be hit repeatedly in a single round.
Well now, I think you're underestimating how much +4 to two Defenses is worth. If your party is running correctly, the Wizard shouldn't be taking many hits anyhow - being able to avoid one or more of them every Encounter can be huge. And, of course, if you're also a Staff Wizard, you get to have this effect twice per Encounter.

Of course this is a YMMV question, but I have never heard anyone call Shield a bad power - why, most Guides rate it Sky Blue! Now, if you want to listen to someone in desperate need of multiclassing it's the Paladin. Look at their LV 2 Utilities - they are an embarrassment!

Kurald Galain
2009-04-23, 02:42 AM
DISLIKES: A few of those "must have" feats are just that -- must have. And I, for one, do not like "must have" feats; I'm a firm believer in FSBNNR (Feats Should Be Nice, Not Required). Also, I'm seeing too much recycled art (including one recycled as recently as the FRPG, I believe).
I agree to both.



FAIL: I still see most wizard builds taking dual-classing just to get a 2nd level utility power that's worth taking. What's with all these wizard powers that require them to be next to opponents?
I disagree to both.

Jump is awesome because it lets you give your move action to another character, just like a warlord (yes, they get to move on your turn; the spell does not merely give a bonus on their own next move). Shield is, imho, rather boring but nevertheless very effective. Exp Retreat is excellent near-teleportation except if you're playing an Eladrin or Shadar-kai. Feather Fall is something I'd only prepare on high levels given its situationalness, but can be a real life saver. Overall I'd say wizards probably have the best set of level-2 utility powers.

And, well, frequently as a wizard you will be next to opponents. So it's good to be able to hurt them, then. Also, the concept of "touch spells" is at least twenty years old.


On the other hand, the one-page for magical equipment (that is, just Tomes) was very disappointing.
Predictable, as they want you to buy AV2. The equipment in PHB2 was likewise disappointing.

Kurald Galain
2009-04-23, 02:45 AM
Shield: triggered by being hit, and lasts only until the end of the wizard's next turn. Really only useful if the attack it interrupts (which targets AC or Ref) only hit by 1-4 points on the dice
Yes, and that's a 20% chance on any attack. I hope you do have a DM that announces "the orc gets AC 21, is that a hit?"


my players they're so loathe to "risk wasting" Dailies that they tend not to use them unless I hang an obvious "only encounter today" or "this is Da Boss!" sign on the encounter
Yeah, but that's your players using sub-par strategy; you can't blame the books for that.

sleepy
2009-04-23, 05:05 AM
What are the benefits of the new multiclass feats?

Does Dual Impliment Mastery or whatever it's called make anyone else think of Grimm Shado (http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/1/16/) and burst out laughing?

Alteran
2009-04-23, 10:59 PM
Does Dual Impliment Mastery or whatever it's called make anyone else think of Grimm Shado (http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/1/16/) and burst out laughing?

I was a bit resistant to put in a self-recommendation, but here it is (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105792).

I am personally very excited for Arcane Power, I hope that it will arrive tomorrow. I was a bit disappointed by the Cosmic Sorcerer preview, but I expect that Storm Sorcerers will be awesome - maybe even more awesome than Wild Sorcerers. I'm also looking forward to seeing how Prismatic Wall turned out, but I'm just a sucker for the chromatic/prismatic powers.

Burley
2009-04-24, 06:56 AM
I was a bit resistant to put in a self-recommendation, but here it is (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105792).

I am personally very excited for Arcane Power, I hope that it will arrive tomorrow. I was a bit disappointed by the Cosmic Sorcerer preview, but I expect that Storm Sorcerers will be awesome - maybe even more awesome than Wild Sorcerers. I'm also looking forward to seeing how Prismatic Wall turned out, but I'm just a sucker for the chromatic/prismatic powers.

Storm Sorcerers are awesome in the way that Feylocks are awesome. You've got solid features that are easy to keep track of, but they won't come into effect too much, and when they do nobody is gonna cheer. Their resistance is Thunder and Lightning, two of the least used keywords in the spectrum by enemies (for their powers and their resistances.) But, there are a lot of nice powers that use thunder and lightning, as well as a feat that improves the damage of thunder and lightning spells by +1 per tier. (Mix with the feats from PH2 that focus on the bard's thunder spells, and you'll have really good combos.

I'm geeking over the familiars. I want more people to geek over the familiars. I want to get in a long, meaningful conversation about how awesome the familiars are for a 4e character. (They're a valuable resource, open to anyone who wants to take a multiclass feat in arcane.)

Speaking of multiclass feats! You can get the swordmage's Sword Bond thingy! That's really cool. My fighter might look into that, if it doesn't require light/heavy blades. (Halberd user.)

Asbestos
2009-04-24, 01:46 PM
Storm Sorcerers are awesome in the way that Feylocks are awesome. You've got solid features that are easy to keep track of, but they won't come into effect too much, and when they do nobody is gonna cheer. Their resistance is Thunder and Lightning, two of the least used keywords in the spectrum by enemies (for their powers and their resistances.) But, there are a lot of nice powers that use thunder and lightning, as well as a feat that improves the damage of thunder and lightning spells by +1 per tier. (Mix with the feats from PH2 that focus on the bard's thunder spells, and you'll have really good combos.


Actually, the feat's from the PHB2 (that I think you are talking about) are not bard specific. Here they are for reference.


Echoes of Thunder
Benefit: When you hit with any thunder attack
power, you gain a +1 bonus to damage rolls until the
end of your next turn. The bonus increases to +2 at
11th level and +3 at 21st level

Oncoming Storm
Benefit: When you hit with any lightning attack
power, you gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls with thunder
powers until the end of your next turn.

If your whole repertoire is thunder and lightning powers I see no reason not to grab these two feats and just combo back and forth between lightning and thunder powers. Definitely good for a storm sorcerer.


Also, I too agree that familiars are pretty neat. Did you check out the Dragon article about them? It basically doubles the amount of available familiars and adds in a 'Familiar Master' PP.

Edit: Has anyone else noticed the Polymorph spell that Sorc's can get as a level 29 Daily? It lets them turn into a huge chromatic dragon.

TheEmerged
2009-04-24, 09:56 PM
Okay, some further review.

1> Yep, the wizard kept Expeditious Retreat. Said wizard has switched to Tome of Readiness, we'll see how it works in practice. The wizard has changed about half the powers on the long-term plan, as well as the paragon & epic destiny planned. The bard toyed with the new feature but decided against it. Said bard also hasn't resubmitted their updated long-term plan.

2> Both the wizard & bard were quite happy with the new feats on the heroic tier. I was somewhat disappointed with the number of available wizard feats at paragon & epic tiers, but what we got was immediately put onto the long-term plan for the wizard.

3> The party swordmage is out of communication, we'll see what he thinks in two Sundays :smallsmile:

Reverent-One
2009-04-29, 12:36 AM
Well, now that Arcane power is up on the character builder, I would like to comment on the tomes. As they kinda suck. To begin with, 4 of the 6 have daily powers which say "You have two more options for your daily power, as long as it is of a specific element" (or in one case, summoning spell), and of the other two, the Tome of Forty Steps is pretty good, a summoner/conjurer could use the extra action it's daily power gives, and the Tome of Arrest's daily power is nice, but it's property doesn't really mesh with the type of wizard that would most likely be using it (or you could reverse that and say the Daily power isn't too useful to a build that really takes advantage of the property). Now, I will say that several of the properties on the spell-holding tomes are nice, but I like to get some real use out of the daily powers on an item.

Kurald Galain
2009-04-29, 03:24 AM
Well, now that Arcane power is up on the character builder, I would like to comment on the tomes. As they kinda suck.
Well, of course they do. WOTC wants you to buy the Adventurers Vault 2, which will undoubtedly contain tomes (as well as Totems, which are also rather sucky so far).

DM_Raven
2009-04-29, 04:30 PM
More new tomes will show up in the future, I think this first list is pretty solid.