Dr. Who's Weeping Angels [PEACH]

[Debihuman]

Weeping Angel
Medium Outsider (Extraplanar, Psionic†)
Hit Dice: 15d8+150 (217 hp)
Initiative: +6
Speed: 100 ft. (20 squares); Fly 200 ft. (good)
Armor Class: 12 (+2 Dex), Touch 12, Flat-footed 10
BAB/Grapple: +15/+17
Attack: Claw +17 melee (1d6+2) or wing buffet +12 melee (1d4+2)
Full Attack: 2 Claws + 17 melee (1d6+2) and 2 wing buffets +12 melee (1d4+2)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Light Source Drain, Projection, Spell-like Abilities, Temporal Death Touch
Special Qualities: Consciousness of the Dead, Curse of Stone Form, Darkvision 60 ft.
Saves: Fort +23, Ref + 11, Will +10
Abilities: Str 15, Dex 14, Con 30, Int 10 Wis 12, Cha 15
Skills: Concentrate +14, Gather Information +21, Heal +3, Knowledge (The Planes) + 18 , Listen +21, Move Silently +20, Search +22, Spellcraft +18, Spot +21, Survival +19
Feats: Alertness, Astral Tracking*, Improved Initiative, Investigator, Self-Sufficient, Track
Environment: Any Land
Organization: Usually solitary, occasionally gang (2-4), rarely army (100 or more)
Challenge Rating: 14
Treasure: Usually none
Alignment: Always Neutral Evil
Advancement: 16-30 (Large)
Adjustment: —

*Astral Tracking is a Feat found in Dragon Magazine 313. If you don't have access to that feat, substitute another feat.

"Don't blink. Don't even blink. Blink and you're dead. They are fast, faster than you can believe. Don't turn your back. Don't look away. And don't blink. Good Luck."

Weeping Angels originate from Gehenna and were defeated by the yugoloths there. In their defeat, they were cursed to be unable to move while being observed. However, when they are not, they move at tremendous speed. They use this ability to approach and attack unwary prey. Only if their temporal touch fails, and the victim is unable to see them, do weeping angels resort to physical methods. If attacking a single victim who can see them, they wait until the victim blinks, generally every other round unless the victim is concentrating on not blinking. They can attack in the blink of an eye due to their immense speed but can take no other action, including covering their own eyes. DC to the Concentration check to avoid blinking is 12 and becomes more difficult over time--increase the check by 1. A weeping angel can move 5 feet in the blink of an eye. Anyone concentrating on not blinking while facing a weeping angel is limited to 1/4 speed.

Weeping angels only speak through their Consciousness of the Dead ability.

Combat

Weeping Angels stalk their prey preferring the taste of intelligent creatures to all others. Since they can only act when not being observed, they prefer to stake out solitary creatures and use both cover and their speed to gain access. They extinguish light sources to keep their victims in the dark. Their temporal death touch sends victims back far enough in time that they die moments before or after they were originally sent back.

Consciousness of the Dead (Psi)†:Weeping angels are able to take the consciousness of someone who has died and speak through it in order to communicate. The voice and tone is that of the deceased.

Curse of Stone (Ex): The exact source of the weeping angels' curse is unknown. They turn to stone when observed, acting as a defense mechanism. While in their locked state they appear as normal stone statues, often covering their eyes so that they will not see each other and lock themselves forever in stone form. This defense mechanism is what gave them the name "Weeping Angels". Any items they had with them before their curse turn to stone along with them. However, other items do not suffer this fate. They eschew any weapons because they must cover their eyes if observed or risk being permanently locked in stone form. A stone to flesh spell can release a permanently locked weeping angel. A locked weeping angel has a hardness of 8 but retains its own hit points.

Light Source Drain (Psi)†: Even when locked into stone form, the weeping angel is able to extinguish a light source in 1d4 rounds.

Projection (Psi)†: The angels possess the ability to create projections of themselves through images. Whenever an image of a weeping angel is created, that too can become an angel whenever the viewer takes his or her eye away from it. It is warned that one should never look into an angel's eyes, as they are the "doors to the soul". This ability allows the angels to create illusions of the mind, making it easier for them to capture their disoriented prey. This also adds a +2 circumstance bonus to their spell-like abilities.

Spell-like Abilities: At will—arcane lock, open/close, silent image (DC 14 to disbelieve). Caster Level 15, charisma based (includes projection bonus). Any door locked by a weeping angel acts as if it were deadlocked and gains immunity to the knock spell.

Temporal Death Touch (Su): A weeping angel must first succeed on a melee touch attack. Its touch sends its victim back in time so that the victim dies moments just before or just after it originally was sent back. The victim must succeed on a Fortitude save (DC 19) to survive the encounter, but success traps the victim in the past. The save is charisma based. Anyone killed in this manner dies in the past leaving no body to raise although reincarnation works normally. Spells from the Time Domain, such as haste and freedom of movement grant the victim a +4 insight bonus to his or her save.

Skills: Weeping angels have a +4 racial bonus to Concentrate.

Design Notes: Normally you'd see only see claw and bite attacks but these angels have over-sized feathery wings and I thought I'd put them to good use. Despite the fact they have over-sized and rather pointy teeth, I didn't particularly like the idea of them using them to bite their opponents. The wings also give 2 attacks where a bite would be only 1.

Also, as has been discussed, do not use these as wandering monsters. The time travel involved will prove more than a headache for the DM who isn't fully prepared for consequences. As a further note, I left how far back in the past a victim is sent purposefully vague. It is up to the DM to decide. Also, time doesn't even have to be linear. A victim could find himself randomly time jumping or caught in a loop like Groundhog's Day. The possibilities are endless.

For anyone not familiar with Weeping Angels here's more information: http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Weeping_Angel

Edit: decided to give them advancement after all. Sure why not?

2nd Edit: DC to Concentration check added and determined just how fast a weeping angel can move in the blink of an eye...

3rd Edit: Added penalty to moving while concentrating on not blinking.

4th and penultimate Edit: added CR 13.

5th final edit: added subtype, fixed AC.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions, even the ones I chose not to use because this creature is better for the additions that I did make.

[NEW EDIT] With the new Dr. Who episode, the weeping angel has been updated to reflect the new abilities from the episode The Time of Angels. New abilities are noted with a †. Also added new picture. They now have the Psionic Subtype. And YES, I have permission to cast thread necromancy on this per Roland St. Jude.

Update: added spell-like abilities to the weeping angel and gave them a +4 racial bonus to Concentrate.

Update: With all the manipulative abilities of the angels, I decided that they need a commensurate Charisma adjustment. I'm giving them Cha 15 rather than 8. Changing projection a bit and fixing skills to account for higher charisma. Also corrected DC for Temporal Death Touch (it's quite brutal at 27 so perhaps that should be based off strength rather than constitution) Added arcane lock and silent image as a spell-like abilities, deleted major image for now. All the new abilities and changes result in a change to Challenge Rating as well. I'm thinking they should have a CR of 14 rather than 13.

FINAL UPDATE: Temporal Death touch is based of Cha now.

Debby

[shadow_archmagi]

I'm not really feeling that this is a good monster for D&D.

Its save-or-die isn't really a save or die. You can't just say "you went back to 100 years ago lived 100 years and now you're 120 and you're dead of old age." Players will want to PLAY that 100 years. In a fantasy world, 100 years forward or back will have relatively little effect, except to give the player a terrific chance to screw with the space-time continuum, ala "I kill baby hitler" or "I'm going to conquer the world!"

[Debihuman]

Yeah, it's the old "Monster as a Plot Device."

This was more of an attempt to see if I could translate some of the more abstract concepts from the series into something actually playable. There's nothing wrong with going back in time--you could make an entire adventure out of it. However, this is definitely not the sort of creature that should show up on random encounter charts.

How fast time flows in the past is relevant too. Time may be faster, with entire months passing in a few days. This is one of the dangers of planar travel and certainly could be with time travel too. Or worse, time doesn't have to be linear so events that you lived happen out of order.

Encyclopaedia Arcane: Chronomancy by Mongoose is the only book that I know in 3rd edition that tackles time travel. In 2nd Ed. TSR published Chronomancer but that's my limited knowledge on the topic.

Debby

[Ascension]

I can't seem to find it now, but I know I've seen D&D stats for these things before. I remember because the last thread had a video link or two in it, meaning that bits of that episode are some of the very little Who I've seen.

[DracoDei]

You need rules for the Fortitude (Will???) Saves to avoid blinking with increasing DCs each round.

[Debihuman]

DC should probably be a Concentration check not a Fortitude save to avoid blinking. It's not like the blinking causes the damage, it allows the weeping angel to move.

The bigger question is, how far can a weeping angel move "in the blink of an eye?" I'm guessing 5 feet. I'll add this.

Debby

[DracoDei]

The need to keep the eyes moist is a biological imperative for their health. Thus Fortitude (eyes healthier to begin with and less in need of moisture) or Will (Mind over Body).

[Debihuman]

To Blink Or Not To Blink...Aye, There's the Rub... Not quite Shakespeare but it fits.

Draco, I get where you are coming from but if you want to make a Fort Save to avoid getting a mote in the eye, I'm gonna ask how much damage does the mote do? Saves are usually made against damage.

That's why I wanted to make it a Concentration check. The concentration check isn't a save [no damage is involved]. Failure means that the weeping angel can move 5 feet closer. Hence, it's a concentration check not a will or fortitude save. Nothing happens to you if you fail the save and you are 10 feet away. If you fail your concentration check, the angel gets to move. Now, that may put you in harm's way eventually but failing the save won't cause you any damage.

If you want to add the complexity of a dusty room [Fort save vs. choking and blinding] that would make sense. As a DM you can first make them save against being blinded by the dust and then make them concentration on not blinking.

I'm gonna be stubborn here.

Debby

[Icewalker]

First off, very awesome. I just want to say that usually creations such as this are made more for their own sake than actual use, so the fact that it has some problems in terms of use in a game isn't really that much of a concern, most of the time.

God...so scary. Anyways, I'd say they can move a bit more than 5 ft. in a blink. When whatshisface turns away for a fraction of a second, probably only a little longer than a blink, it crosses the entire room, probably 20-30 ft. Maybe 10 or 15 for blinking?

[Debihuman]

Thanks Icewalker. I'm trying to make these as awesome as possibly within the rules and still keep the flavor of the creature from the series.

I'd call that turning of his head definitely more time than a blink. The reason that I went with 5 feet is that concentrating on blinking should be tense and scary; anyone facing one of these is likely to be in range too soon (for aestheic mood purposes), if the weeping angels can move 10 ft. in the blink of an eye. Also, a PC backing up while concentrating on not blinking shouldn't be able to move very far at all. In fact, I would probably limit it to 1/4 speed. Of course, this could all change in a real playtest situation.

Honestly, if I had a gaming group of sufficient level, I'd love to try this out to see how well it works. Sadly, that's not the case.

Any idea what the Challenge Rating should be?

Debby

[Icewalker]

I think you need to rephrase the death touch. If I understand what you meant, it is just save or be sent back in time. It is phrased though to somewhat imply 'save or die, on success, sent back in time'

As to the CR, quite high with a save or removal, especially DC 20 on every hit with a full attack with 4 pieces.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

These creatures do not convert well to D&D because they cannot truly be 'killed', only locked into stone by having them face each other.

Also ridiculously easy for the spell Prying Eyes to neuter effectively. Now you don't need to worry about blinking, the prying eyes take care of it for you.

This is a horror monster, which generally fails abysmally in D&D because the players have the answers. The worst part about the weeping angels in Dr. Who is that they were largely an unknown, and were, in effect, Plot Monsters. Statting them is largely arbitrary and pointless.

[Debihuman]

Time travel is so darn complicated. If it is save or die in the past and you make the players roleplay that: it's complicated. If you don't allow them to roleplay but make them pick a random time to die, it's less complicated but likely to frustrate some roleplayer out there.

Basically I made it possible to do either one. If a DM really wanted to play out the intervening years, that is possible. Or a body dies in the past and leaves no body in the present. On a successful save, the person is still in the past but doesn't die. Then it is a matter of how time works. I'm not sure I'm up to detailing all the possibilities.

And don't even get me started on paradox... Honestly, you can build an entire campaign out of this but at the core it should'nt be that complicated.

Debby

[Icewalker]

When you get time travel involved, it is that complicated, and then it goes back in time and makes itself more complicated just to spite you.

it really just doesn't work cleanly inside of a functional system like dnd or reality.

[BlueWizard]

Good episode.

[Debihuman]

These creatures do not convert well to D&D because they cannot truly be 'killed', only locked into stone by having them face each other.

Also ridiculously easy for the spell Prying Eyes to neuter effectively. Now you don't need to worry about blinking, the prying eyes take care of it for you.

This is a horror monster, which generally fails abysmally in D&D because the players have the answers. The worst part about the weeping angels in Dr. Who is that they were largely an unknown, and were, in effect, Plot Monsters. Statting them is largely arbitrary and pointless.

Piffle, no more arbitary and pointless than statting a vampire or demon. Granted this works better in a horror campaign where the DM is setting up the PCs for a lot of horror and fear checks, but even in a fantasy campaign you could find a use for these.

Sure you can use prying eyes but for how long? Weeping angels have all the patience in the world and can certainly wait for the spell to end or for the eyes to leave, which they have to do in order to report their findings. Furthermore, if the eyes encounter darkness, the eyes are useless against the angels. Fog, dust, darkness, shadows...all of these can affect prying eyes . It only takes a blink of an eye for a weeping angel to attack. The eyes only have one hit point so they are quite fragile. Finally, the weeping angel can fly at 200 ft. so if it does get a chance to move, odds are it will get away.

The idea behind them is that they are predatory in nature and to them, you are food. I agree, weeping angels aren't good monsters for the typical hack'n'slasher, but there are other kinds of roleplaying and it's good to occassionally shake things up a bit with encounters like this.

As for actually killing them: smash the statue. It has 217 hit points and then it's permanently dead. Nothing short of limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection will fix that. Death for PCs is hardly permanenent either, nor should it be.

Debby

[DanielLC]

Adventures tend to travel in groups. So long as they don't all blink at the same time, the players can just smash the statues without having any risk.

[Icewalker]

Well, death for adventurers isn't permanent...unless it's due to old age. If their touch of temporal screwyou succeeds, it's pretty much -1 party member, epic and post-teleport roleplayed or not.

Now, I can see how this could be some crazy epic thing if you are losing a player, where they go back and set up a plot point for mid-campaign, and it would be really awesome, but these would be really really hard to use safely and fairly.

[Debihuman]

If their touch of temporal screwyou succeeds, it's pretty much -1 party member, epic and post-teleport roleplayed or not.

Yeah, and that's why I gave bonuses if the party had spells from the Time Domain. It's a little less of that. On the other hand, a party of adventurers will more likely defeat a weeping angel since the more eyes on it, the less likely it is to move.

Here's some ideas I had for these (in no particular order):

Mirrors behind you can cause the weeping angel to see itself and thereby lock itself into place. A distinct lack of mirrors could be a red herring with PCs believing a vampire is behind the missing persons. Weeping angels would tend to avoid places with mirrors, but a PC with a polished shield could certainly use that to his or her advantage. Alternatively, you could set one of these up in a former medusa's lair. With all the statues around, nobody would think of these. Espcially if the medusa had been posing her victims before stoning them. I know it's an old bait and switch tactic but it sometimes works.

Another thing, how do you rescue someone in the past before they die of old age? That's the stuff that makes for great campaigns. Maybe you need to find a fairy godmother. [okay that was indeed a shameless plug for my fairy godmother prestige class but why not?] to set everyone on a quest for the magical widget to set everything right. In this case, the entire party is supposed to go back in time. It will probably lead to a lot of headaches, but it also gives the DM a chance to revive some favorite dead NPCs even it is just temporary. Also, there's nothing that says the PCs have to be the target of the weeping angel. One could be targeting someone else and the PCs have to save the day and the NPC, cohort or minion in question.

Then it's a matter of going forward in time again and avoiding the consequences--should be darn tough but not impossible. Of course you could have them fail--over and over--until they finally get it right. Sort of a "Groundhog's Day."

It's one thing to make a monster, it's another thing to run one. I really think these could be used in a fantasy game, but they require work.

One last thing: I'm setting the Challenge Rating at 13.

Debby

[Icewalker]

Basically, here's how I see it: there are lots of good ways to use it, and if executed well, they would be really fantastic. However, these can only be used in the context of setting up at least a small adventure, if not more of one, and even then the DM must likely slightly twist the battle to make sure that it ends correctly to follow at least roughly whatever adventure is planned.

These are a large scale event, and must be used very carefully, but if done right, it would be really awesome.

[TSED]

Man, that episode had a GIANT plot-hole.


What is so hard about closing one eye and leaving the other open, and then repeating it as such?


Do not even try to tell me that players won't think of that.


Now, as for the monster:
1) I would make them from the Far Realms, not banished from Gehenna. More Dr. Who 'from another Universe and another time' type feel.
2) It could be a very very good plot device. Send the whole party back in time, and voila. Whole new campaign setting. And suddenly EVERY ONE REGRETS NOT LISTENING TO YOUR HISTORY LECTURES, BWAHAHA. Bonus points if you mentioned some of their exploits in the past... Really screw with their heads.

[Icewalker]

I dunno, when you try to open and close one eye at a time it's very easy to accidentally blink. I mean, if you're slow and careful you can avoid it, but when you are panicked? Not sure it'd help that much.

[JackMage666]

Oh man, but if one of these things nabbed some Sorcerer or Wizard levels, and Silent Still cast Blindness, or Invisibility, or anything like that, you're screwed.

[TSED]

Oh man, but if one of these things nabbed some Sorcerer or Wizard levels, and Silent Still cast Blindness, or Invisibility, or anything like that, you're screwed.

Or several and got Greater Invisibility. Hello "TPK forever."

[Debihuman]

Man, that episode had a GIANT plot-hole. What is so hard about closing one eye and leaving the other open, and then repeating it as such? Do not even try to tell me that players won't think of that.


Winkin, Blinkin, and Nod....just had to say that.

Yes, I'm sure some player will decide to stand and wink each eye. You try concentrating on winking and moving. All it takes is something to trip you up and bam! There goes that concentration check.

The problem with making these from the Far Realms is that they don't really fit the cosmology there either. They aren't Lovecraftian enough if you ask me, not enough weirdness and tentacles. They strike me as having more in common with fallen celestials than with creatures from the Far Realms. Especially with that curse surrounding them. I liked that part a lot.

I think Icewalker nailed it here:

However, these can only be used in the context of setting up at least a small adventure, if not more of one, and even then the DM must likely slightly twist the battle to make sure that it ends correctly to follow at least roughly whatever adventure is planned.

Monster as plot device not as fodder.

Debby

[TSED]

Winkin, Blinkin, and Nod....just had to say that.

Yes, I'm sure some player will decide to stand and wink each eye. You try concentrating on winking and moving. All it takes is something to trip you up and bam! There goes that concentration check.

Actually, it's really easy. Just start blinking really fast each eye after the other. Not hard to do whilst doing something else. For example, I typed this rebuttal doing that.


The problem with making these from the Far Realms is that they don't really fit the cosmology there either. They aren't Lovecraftian enough if you ask me, not enough weirdness and tentacles. They strike me as having more in common with fallen celestials than with creatures from the Far Realms. Especially with that curse surrounding them. I liked that part a lot.

Ah, but there's the beauty of it. It's my opinion that anything breaking the rules of our universe are more far realmsian than not. And what do they do to kill you? Why, letting you live to death. To quote the doctor, "nicest way of killing you I've ever seen." What if they're Far Realms celestials?


I think Icewalker nailed it here:


Monster as plot device not as fodder.

Debby

This is kind of majorly important.

[Diagoras]

I personally think this is fantastic. Sure, if you're running a kick-down-the-door exponential-super-ninja-caster campaign, they're not going to be much use. But for a DM trying to craft a horror campaign, or using a low-magic world, or in a d20 modern or even future setting this is absolutely fantastic.

Thanks a bunch, I fully intend to use these beasts.

[Debihuman]

Since there has been a recent Dr. Who episode on the Weeping Angels, I've gone ahead and added new abilities. I have permission from Roland St. Jude to resurrect this thread to get feedback on the new angel abilities.

It strikes me that the new abilities are Psionic in nature so I've added that subtype and then added the new features.

Please PEACH again and let me know what you think.

Debby

[enigmatime]

This is pretty awesome. I'm going to use this in my game combined with this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79135&page=4). :belkar: So many things that are suited for me on this forum... :nale:

[Tibbaerrohwen]

I love the show. I love the creature. I love the homebrew.
I agree that it can't be used as a mob monster, but would you want to when it works so well as a plot device.
I agree with TSED. I don't see why the creature can't be from the Far Realm. It could be a celestial banished to the Far Realm by the Gods. A celestial banished in the Far Realm from Far Realmian Gods. Even a celestial from the Far Realm with twisted sense of mercy and justice, prompting it to seal people away in the past.
To address the movement question asked earlier. Why not use Dimension Hop (PHB2 p. 110) at will? It keeps the flavour and mystique of quantum movement, which is how their high-speed travel is described cannonicallly. We have seen them move physically, but only very slowly, in the episode Flesh and Stone, so you can still give them slow or even average physical movement.
Lastly, I was wondering why it was fortitude inatead of reflex for Temporal Death Touch.
My only other question is how, and if, you plan to incorporate the ability of the Weeping Angel to enter and manipulate ones mind (like what happened to Amy Pond).
Overall, excellent homebrew

[Jack of Spades]

Finally, my habit of skipping the first post and reading the comments pays off! I'll go watch that episode now, so I can comment on the angels in their entirety.

So... <Reserved for an hour-ish>

...

Alright then. I'd say that projection could use some more specifics, but then again that particular feature isn't fully fleshed out yet. Hopefully it'll be more stat-able come next Saturday.

[Debihuman]

I love the show. I love the creature. I love the homebrew.

Thanks. There's a lot of stuff for me to go through so bear with me.

First, TSED mentioned winking one eye and then the other. If you watch the later episode, Amy Pond does that successfully for a little while, but she still blinks. Trying not to blink under stress isn't easy. .


I agree that it can't be used as a mob monster, but would you want to when it works so well as a plot device.

The weeping angels can be used as mob monsters, but I haven't statted these up as a mob.


I agree with TSED. I don't see why the creature can't be from the Far Realm. It could be a celestial banished to the Far Realm by the Gods. A celestial banished in the Far Realm from Far Realmian Gods. Even a celestial from the Far Realm with twisted sense of mercy and justice, prompting it to seal people away in the past.

Except, that's not the history of these in the Dr. Who Universe. They are from [I]this universe, only from an earlier time. I merely substituted Gehenna, but I suppose you have them originate from the Far Realm if that suits your needs.

These didn't seem weird enough to be from the Far Realm in my mind. The Far Realm suits the creatures from Call of Cthulhu -- weird tentacled creatures and such. The weeping angels look too benign, even though they aren't. Feel free to change their history in your campaign. It's open content, so you can do what you'd like with it.


To address the movement question asked earlier. Why not use Dimension Hop (PHB2 p. 110) at will? It keeps the flavour and mystique of quantum movement, which is how their high-speed travel is described cannonicallly. We have seen them move physically, but only very slowly, in the episode Flesh and Stone, so you can still give them slow or even average physical movement.

Dimension hop only allows you to move 5 ft per 2 caster levels. More importantly, I didn't give them any spell-like abilities. I think their ability to move should be extraordinary and not spell-like.


Lastly, I was wondering why it was Fortitude instead of Reflex for Temporal Death Touch. Quick and dirty answer is, because I felt it was more appropriate. See phantasmal killer as that also has a save or die Fortitude save. I didn't want the the PCs to make two saves, as that seems even more unfair.


My only other question is how, and if, you plan to incorporate the ability of the Weeping Angel to enter and manipulate one's mind (like what happened to Amy Pond). I mention it under one of the new psionic abilities--Projection. It needs some refining obviously. And there may be more to add once I watch the next Dr. Who episode.


Overall, excellent homebrew

Thanks a bunch. If you have any other ideas, I'm open to suggestions but no guarantees that I'll incorporate them.


Its save-or-die isn't really a save or die. You can't just say "you went back to 100 years ago lived 100 years and now you're 120 and you're dead of old age." Players will want to PLAY that 100 years.

Sure I can. You may find it unfulfilling as a player, but it really isn't any worse than being eaten by a grue.* Before you start complaining to me about how your DM handles this, remember I'm recreating a monster that does this in a TV series. If your DM lets you role-play the 100 years, good for you, but if not, it's not my fault.

However, if I were your DM, I'd probably make it the most boring session of your life: "You wake up in a charming English countryside in 1952 where magic doesn't exist and you have a job at the post office and are married with 2 children and have a dog and a house with a white picket fence. Everyone knows who you are. What do you do?" Or maybe I'd incorporate 50 First Dates... I can be quite callous.**

New Edit: There is now a mechanic for Projection for you to disbelieve the illusion. Whew. I think that's enough for one night.

Debby

*Blame Vance and Zork for this one and the fact that I have free time to think about this silly stuff.

**It could be a lot worse. Pick a bad Lifetime channel movie (a complete tearjerker) and try to roleplay that!

[D Knight]

why did you post a pic of the weeping angle. did you not know that any image becomes an angle. i had to watch the image and close the browser before it came to life and flung me through time. well any way it looks as close to the show as it can be good job.

[banthesun]

The only thing I can object to is their destructability. The Time of Angels showed them being able to make objects impenatrable and form some sort of unalterable seal around themselves. This would be an interesting ability for them, and making them pretty much impossible to destroy would add a very Dr Who vibe, as the players will only be able to win by out thinking them.

[Debihuman]

I didn't notice that they had any sort of seal around them at all. That the weapons weren't terribly effective is one thing. Bullets aren't effective against statues all that much--Napoleon's army only managed to shoot the nose of the Sphinx after all. You need a weapon that can overcome the hardness. Then again, nobody tried to shatter one of the angels.

Debby

[banthesun]

I was thinking of when Amy was sealed in the command center. The door couldn't be opened or cut through, nor the power turned off or severed. I'm not sure if they can apply that power to themselves, but it would seem likely.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

I was thinking of when Amy was sealed in the command center. The door couldn't be opened or cut through, nor the power turned off or severed. I'm not sure if they can apply that power to themselves, but it would seem likely.

That's more a matter of sealing off an area to trap a victim than protecting themselves; making them indestructible gets away from them being actual stone and turns them into something that just looks and feels like stone.

You could simulate their ability by taking an enclosed space (up to 30'x30'x30', say) and doing the following: treat all the walls/barriers as if they're walls of force, arcane lock all the doors, and coat the inside and outside surfaces with a globe of invulnerability. You can't cut through the walls, doors are "deadlocked" (i.e. immune to knock), and you can't open the door normally. Make it last as long as the Angel is in the area and concentrates on it, and it should match that episode fairly well.

[Tibbaerrohwen]

If you plan on creating a seal-type ability, like the one proposed by PairO'Dice, you will have to raise the CR of the Angel. It could fit the psionic characteristics you've given the creature.
The Projection ability does need some work. If you could specifiy the type of illusion, making reference to pre-existing spells or psionic abilities may fill it out better.
Both of the aforementioned require the inclusion of spell-like abilities or pre-existing psionic abilities.
I mentioned Dimension Hop earlier because the Angels seem to travel in short bursts between blinks. In that case, the limited range of Dimension Hop isn't really an issue; it allows for 35ft of movement (assuming CL equal to HD) in the blink of one's eye (casting time swift action). It just seeed to work, though I can understand your reluctance to make their extremely swift quantum movement supernatural in nature, but it does feel that way.
I don't doubt they could be used as mob creatures, but the final nature of Temporal Death Touch would keep me from implementing them as such.

[Debihuman]

I was thinking of when Amy was sealed in the command center. The door couldn't be opened or cut through, nor the power turned off or severed. I'm not sure if they can apply that power to themselves, but it would seem likely.


While the angel did appear to close the door, it seemed to me that Amy was just too weak to unlock the door. Furthermore those doors weren't meant to be opened from the outside once closed and are supposed to be that difficult to cut through. You don't want doors on a ship like that that could be cut through easily. How much of it was sheer coincidence, I'm not sure. But I'm not going to attribute all of it to the angels.

Debby

[PairO'Dice Lost]

While the angel did appear to close the door, it seemed to me that Amy was just too weak to unlock the door. Furthermore those doors weren't meant to be opened from the outside once closed and are supposed to be that difficult to cut through. You don't want doors on a ship like that that could be cut through easily. How much of it was sheer coincidence, I'm not sure. But I'm not going to attribute all of it to the angels.

Debby

Do note that the door was deadlocked and locked normally while the angel was there but fine afterwards, regardless of its resistance to cutting, so at least that much was the angel's work.

[Jack of Spades]

While the angel did appear to close the door, it seemed to me that Amy was just too weak to unlock the door. Furthermore those doors weren't meant to be opened from the outside once closed and are supposed to be that difficult to cut through. You don't want doors on a ship like that that could be cut through easily. How much of it was sheer coincidence, I'm not sure. But I'm not going to attribute all of it to the angels.

Debby

Well we know that at the very least the Doctor couldn't get through them with his screwdriver, and that he should have been able to do that (Hence the "The door's deadlocked" "There's no deadlock on the door!" exchange). So we know that they can make the doors impossible to unlock. Amy's strength is an unknown at this point, so it would be easier to just assume that there was no way for her to get out.

Also, it seems very unlikely that the blast door on the module would be closed by any force other than the angel, considering the inertia of the door and the fact that it didn't appear to be very windy that day.

[Debihuman]

The whole deadlocking of the door seems more like a Deus Ex Machina to me but I'm going to attribute it to an open/close spell and add it as a spell-like ability (at will seems to make sense) and major image as well.

See my update on the first post.

I didn't give the weeping angels any racial skills. I'm giving them a +4 racial bonus to Concentrate. It makes sense because they'll need that for their major image spell-like ability.

Debby

[KAGOME05W]

You forgot to add a 2 things
1) any thing that takes the image of an angel becomes an angel
2) If you look an angel in the eye it can possess you.

[Debihuman]

Both of those are mentioned in the Projection Special Ability.

Debby

[Jack of Spades]

In Debi's defense, the 'possession' ability isn't fully described in the show, and won't be until Saturday's episode rolls out :smalltongue:

Hm. I wonder if an illusion of an Angel can become an Angel? That could be interesting, considering that Silent Image is only a first-level spell. Other fun could come from warding yourself with a False Vision of an Angel.

Or if you don't feel like letting your characters escape the encounter, put a single Angel in a labyrinth of mirrors and watch as it fractal-izes into infinity.

[Debihuman]

I added Major Image as a spell-like ability. In light of all this, I realize that I have set the Angel's charisma far too low. With all these new abilities to manipulate people, they probably have a Charisma of 15 or higher.

[Deathdarken]

I think she nailed it for the most part, though my knowledge of 3.5 D and D is not much it sounds right, hope you work more with doctor who aliens

[Debihuman]

I've updated the angels quite a bit. I'm not sure I am completely happy with all of the changes. In particular the DC of the Temporal Death Touch seems awfully high at DC 27 (10 +1/2 creature's HD + ability modifier). Perhaps it should not be constitution based. If it is Strength based the DC would be 19.

All suggestions are welcome.

I added arcane lock to the angel's spell-like repertoire. It should be noted that a knock spell can't open barred doors so perhaps the way the angel closed the door, it self-barred. Still, the sonic screwdriver usually works on stuff like that -- although it has been known to fail. I'm not sure that there is a satisfactory answer to how to mimic that scene using D&D rules. I'm cheating a bit by saying that any door locked by an angel gains immunity to the knock spell for now.

Debby

[A Weeping Angel]

Nice class, interestingly enough I didn't see this before creating my account and user name. I have no experience in homebrewing so won't say anything there except to ask: why have them be cursed into being 'quantum-locked' rather then a natural part of their biology? Just curious because that is one of the things that I find most interesting about them.

[Debihuman]

I got that information from the Wikipedia article (reference in my post).

Debby

[A Weeping Angel]

I got that information from the Wikipedia article (reference in my post).

Debby

Thanks, must have missed it. :smallredface:

[enigmatime]

Thanks, must have missed it. :smallredface:

Why, oh, why?!?!? Why did you make that your avatar?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? :smallfurious:

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Why, oh, why?!?!? Why did you make that your avatar?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? :smallfurious:

Yeah! Don't you realize how dangerous it is to make an image of an Angel!?

[enigmatime]

Yeah! Don't you realize how dangerous it is to make an image of an Angel!?

My eyes hurt from lack of blinking!!!!! :smalleek: I can't close them!

[PairO'Dice Lost]

My eyes hurt from lack of blinking!!!!! :smalleek: I can't close them!

Don't worry, with all the people reading these forums, I'm sure someone is watching his avatar at all times. Though if you're worried, we can take turns watching it.

[enigmatime]

Don't worry, with all the people reading these forums, I'm sure someone is watching his avatar at all times. Though if you're worried, we can take turns watching it.

I got them closed! :smallsmile: So now I'm just alternating the eyes.

[Deathdarken]

I got them closed! :smallsmile: So now I'm just alternating the eyes.

quick just scroll down if its not on the screen there is no image, just being on the internet does not make an image, so that new episode was sorta a let down in some ways or that is what I though, never truly gave a weakness, the Doctor simply used them to close off the time distortion or what ever that light was, either way I'm intrigued by the episode (my biggest question is why can't she remember the Daleks, can't wait to see them again

one more thing
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa33/Deathdarken/daleksmulticolourvictory.jpg

[Debihuman]

I called them CrayolaTM Daleks when I first saw them.

It would have been nice to see more weeping angel powers in the last episode. I suspect they may return at a later time. Meanwhile, I think I've pretty much done all that I can with the weeping angels. Thanks for all the help and suggestions.

Debby

[Deathdarken]

I called them CrayolaTM Daleks when I first saw them.

It would have been nice to see more weeping angel powers in the last episode. I suspect they may return at a later time. Meanwhile, I think I've pretty much done all that I can with the weeping angels. Thanks for all the help and suggestions.

Debby

yeah I think you have done all you can on to the next alien race