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Roythebattousai
2009-04-18, 10:20 AM
So, last night we were starting on our 600 page dungeon that our DM made. Awesome, right? Well, kinda. We sucked so badly on the first floor of it, that we couldn't even kill 3 Barghests. We have 3 level 7's and 2 level 8's.

My monk was all spec'd out to do some pretty sweet damage, but then I realized something... Hitting things with decently high AC's is kinda hard.

So, I was wondering, are there any ways I can increase my attack roll on my Unarmed attacks? I've taken the Vow of Poverty, so magic items are out of the question.

Help?

Yuki Akuma
2009-04-18, 10:32 AM
There are a few soulmerlds (Magic of Incarnum) that increase attack rolls. You could take the Shape Soulmeld feat in order to access them.

There are a few vestiges (Tome of Magic) that increase attack rolls as well, although I'm not sure if the Bind Vestige feat is enough to get them - might consider multiclassing.

Ask the local spellslinger to cast Bull's Strength/Cat's Grace on you.

Alternatively, consider not playing the weakest class/feat combination in the entire game.

Gorbash
2009-04-18, 10:45 AM
My monk was all spec'd out to do some pretty sweet damage

An oxymoron if I ever saw one.

Roythebattousai
2009-04-18, 10:47 AM
We're 7th level first and second timers. Chill, guys. We're trying to have fun, not be powergaming munchkins.

Flickerdart
2009-04-18, 10:53 AM
See if you can swap out a few levels for the Psionic Fist (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/psionicFist.htm) PrC. You only need +4 BAB, Wild Talent feat and 9 ranks Concentration, and in return you get a 10 level progression leading to 5th level psionics, and unarmed strike damage and AC scaling as if those were Monk levels. You also manifest off Wisdom, which should be a high stat already. It doesn't progress Flurry so you might consider leaving at 8th level instead when you get that 3rd attack.
You can enter at 7th level, so you can get one or two levels in this, depending on what level you are. Choose Offensive Precognition and Metaphysical Claw as your powers. Each lasts 1 minute per manifester level, or 20 rounds if you got to 2nd. Together they give you +1 Enhancement to attack and damage on your fists (does VoP stack with that? Not sure) and +1 insight to attack. You might also want Expansion if Metaphysical Claw doesn't stack. It only lasts 1 round/level, but for 2PP augmentation, you get 10 minutes per level, or 200 rounds. Neat, huh?
When you reach 2nd level powers, you will want Hustle. It gives you a Move action instead of an Immediate, which means you can run up to a guy and Flurry in the same turn. Strength of My Enemy and Psionic Lion's Charge are also good choices, especially considering you have the extra Flurry attack to get more hits in.

wadledo
2009-04-18, 11:02 AM
We're 7th level first and second timers. Chill, guys. We're trying to have fun, not be powergaming munchkins.

Yet you're asking optimization advice?:smallconfused:

Kroy
2009-04-18, 11:03 AM
We're 7th level first and second timers. Chill, guys. We're trying to have fun, not be powergaming munchkins.

Then what are you doing in the Playground?:smallwink:

Chronos
2009-04-18, 11:39 AM
I presume, given that you're a VoP monk, that you've already taken Intuitive Attack as one of your bonus exalted feats?

theMycon
2009-04-18, 11:41 AM
An oxymoron if I ever saw one.

Well, he's asking exactly the right question, here at least. If you can find a way to make all the attacks hit, and the enemy has no DR, a monk can do pretty respectable damage at mid-levels. It's not hard to pile on the extra attacks a monk gets at the first Attack Bonus, giving him a half-dozen kicks/qstaffs at 7, for tolerable damage apiece. It's just hard to make sure he hasn't got less than the fighter's iterative bonus after he gets 'em all.

Bluebeard
2009-04-18, 12:09 PM
Try to Flank, charge and get the higher ground as much as you can. If you have Improved Trip and manage to pull it off, it's essentially a +4 to melee attacks on top of its other benefits.

Use combat maneuvers that don't require ordinary attack rolls: this means Trips, Disarms, Sunders, that sort of thing.

If you keep having trouble, look at the Fist of Zuoken/Psionic Fist (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/psionicFist.htm) class Flickerdart mentioned from the EPH. It solves maybe 80% of the Monk's problems.
Also consider the Kensai class from Complete Warrior. It will make your life as a Monk much easier with its +8 Strength Boost and Fist-enhancement thing.
Multiclassing to Ardent, Cleric, Druid, Incarnate or Psychic Warrior can also help.

Also see if you can scrounge Polymorph from somewhere (item, teammate, your own spells). The spell can be abused [hard], but it can do wonders for bridging party balance if you can get it on weak meleers.

Lycanthromancer
2009-04-18, 12:14 PM
My advice is similar to taking psionic fist/fist of Zuoken, as noted above.

However, ask your DM if you can trade 5 monk levels in for 5 levels in psychic warrior, and take the Talashtora feat, which allows your psywar levels to count as monk levels for unarmed strike damage, flurry of blows, and AC bonuses.

It'll make VoP not suck beach balls, and if you conserve your pp for when you really need them, you'll be a VoPowerhouse.

(Also, research metamorphosis when you are about to get 4th level powers, for both excellent damage capabilities and general utility.)

Flickerdart
2009-04-18, 12:15 PM
If you keep having trouble, look at the Fist of Zuoken/Psionic Fist class Chronos mentioned from the EPH. It solves maybe 80% of the Monk's problems.
That was me. Chronos just suggested Intuitive Attack.

Bluebeard
2009-04-18, 12:19 PM
That was me. Chronos just suggested Intuitive Attack.

That's... um... what I said.
>.>
<.<

Signmaker
2009-04-18, 12:32 PM
Hm. I recall seeing a while back on the forums that someone tried to stat up a poison-punching monk. Basically, attempted to tack on as many Save-or-Suck status effects in to their unarmed attack routine. I also recall quite a few of those effects being feat-based, which wouldn't be in the way of VoP.

While this isn't increasing attack rolls, let's face it: you picked monk, which is 3/4ths, and VoP, which is really limiting any attack bonus options to PrCs, feats, and party support. Intuitive attack and flanking tactics have already been mentioned.

Perhaps there are a few monk class variants you may want to look at? Again, this has nothing to do with attack bonuses, but Dungeonscape has a nice variant that replaces monk slow fall with what essentially amounts to wall-running.

If your DM doesn't care about alignment restrictions (some don't), then dip 1 level in Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian for Pounce. You're a monk, and it's nice to both move and attack repeatedly, and in an odd sense, maxing out the number of attack rolls also helps increase your hit chance.

Lastly, would Kensai help this fellow out any? It is, from what I understand of it, a way to bypass the entire no magic item angle, while still getting him increased attack bonuses due to the whole magic fists thing.

Alleine
2009-04-18, 12:35 PM
I'll toss my chips in for Psionic Fist as well. Psionics provides a (mostly) VoP friendly boost to everything. There's at least one power for boosting your AB, and several more for boosting damage. And remember, your unarmed strikes count as natural attacks and manufactured weapons. That ought to make some of those powers a tad more useful to you.

Chronos
2009-04-18, 02:05 PM
Basically, attempted to tack on as many Save-or-Suck status effects in to their unarmed attack routine. I also recall quite a few of those effects being feat-based, which wouldn't be in the way of VoP.Especially since one of the feats in question is probably Touch of Golden Ice, and you've got exalted feats out the wazoo.

sonofzeal
2009-04-18, 02:19 PM
Touch attacks. Seriously, boosting attack rolls is hard, but gaining touch attacks isn't. Plus, then you can Power Attack out the wazoo and still hit


Here are some ways to gain touch attacks. Some may not apply to your character (unless you have an Artificer in the party who can Infuse your fists, which shouldn't break your vow).

- Impaling Weapons get 3/day Touch Attacks for a +1 enchantment.

- PsiWar2 dip, use the bonus feats for Psionic Weapon + Deep Impact.

- Get the wizard to cast Wraithstrike on you.

- Become Incorporeal with a Ghost Touch weapon (not a true Touch Attack, but close)

- Swordsage dip, take Emerald Razor.

Gorbash
2009-04-19, 02:14 AM
- Get the wizard to cast Wraithstrike on you.

Personal buff.


We're trying to have fun, not be powergaming munchkins.

Do you even know what a munchkin is?

Zincorium
2009-04-19, 02:25 AM
My monk was all spec'd out to do some pretty sweet damage
+

We're trying to have fun, not be powergaming munchkins.
=

FAILure to communicate.


Obviously, weapon focus. It's really rather terrible, except when it's the only thing that will help fix your problem. The situational modifiers mentioned (charging, flanking, etc.) are good things to use when available, but if you focus too much on them, the DM will probably start using them to help the monsters, and this is not good for you.

Alternately, multiclass into something with full BAB. It won't hurt. Much.

VirOath
2009-04-19, 02:40 AM
[snip] It doesn't progress Flurry so you might consider leaving at 8th level instead when you get that 3rd attack.[snip]

I'd like to point out that a common mistake is assuming that Monk Flurry of Blows is tied to the class. Rather, it is a class given power that is derived from BAB. What ties it into the monk class is that the penalty lowers and you get more attacks as you gain more levels in monk, to a point.

That means that even a single level dip into monk will give a Flurry of Blows progression of BAB-2/BAB-2/BAB-5-2/BAB-10-2/BAB-15-2, otherwise known as a -2 penalty on all attacks and an extra attack at your highest value.

Not correcting Flicker on this, as I'm sure he knew, it's just something that should be explained for newer people as it can get confusing at times. Wouldn't want to gimp yourself against RAW by not applying your BAB from other classes and PrCs to your flurry of blows.

Edit:

Lastly, would Kensai help this fellow out any? It is, from what I understand of it, a way to bypass the entire no magic item angle, while still getting him increased attack bonuses due to the whole magic fists thing.

Yes, it has already been mentioned but it should be again. Kensai Weapons do not have a wealth value, can never be sold by the Kensai, never require wealth to be expended and are a class feature. Only requires a payment of EXP, and is about one of the only ways of getting around VoP in terms of magic items.

And it can be done to fists and natural weapons. So go to town, as you already fit most of the bill for it, are already likely following to an extreme ideal, and will give you full BAB boost as well, giving you the Hail Mary attack (BAB-15). And with a bit of thinking and planning, you might be able to get them enchanted with something close to touch attacks, just be careful as some of those don't have good effects against certain creatures.

Edit 2: Wait, IIRC the Kensai requires a Masterworked weapon if it is put on a weapon. You could get away with your fists, but if you decide to use a weapon for this for some reason, you'd have to get the DM to rule that it is a special case that was given the nod by a certain deity. Considering that you have a buttload of Exalted feats in the first place, that would fit quite closely. And even Lawful Gods bend the rules or use loopholes.

Edit Thrice: It's been pointed out to me that the Kensai out of Complete Warrior isn't full BAB. It's average progression from +0 to +7. I'm going on their word on this, since I don't have the book infront of me.

Talic
2009-04-19, 02:47 AM
1) Trip. When an opponent is tripped, your melee gets a +4. Moreover, HIS melee gets a -4.

2) Grapple. Grapple checks replace an attack roll with an opposed check. More bonus? Your allies benefit as well, as you make the enemy flat-footed to them.

3) Flank. Easy +2 to hit.

Some of these abilities are dependent on your enemy not being big or stable.

All of them are better done by a wolf totem barbarian with a Guisarme.

This doesn't mean they can't help you as well. They're down and dirty, right out the gate moves you can use immediately. If you don't have the respective feats, get cover relative to your foe, so that he can't make attacks of opportunity when you grapple or trip. Yeah, he gets a +2 AC... But you're still rollin' a touch attack on him.

Tehnar
2009-04-19, 04:54 AM
I would suggest you look to the party for that attack bonus buff. A clerics bless or a wizards haste help a bit, heroism and greater heroism help more. Curse of impending blades lowers monster AC. It all depends on who you are playing with. There might be more spells, but I cant think of any off the top of my head.

Harperfan7
2009-04-19, 05:10 AM
If you don't want powergaming replies to your queries, don't come to internet forums. Save yourself the time and go look up your answers for yourself. Or shout CORE ONLY!!! from a mountaintop every few posts.

My advice is to buddy up with your local casters and buy them several low level scrolls or wands (or pay them to make them) of spells that buff, then have them cast them on you before any predictable battle. That is, if Vow of Poverty lets you have money at all, I don't know much about it.

EDIT: Actually, if the feat does keep you from owning wealth, just say that your share should be spent on things that benefit you. It's the least they could do for so called weak monks.

Talic
2009-04-19, 06:37 AM
Actually, VoP is pretty restrictive. You can't even let someone else have something with the intent that it be used for you. They covered the standard bases on loopholes.

Chronos
2009-04-19, 11:59 AM
Yeah, treasure still has to be divided fairly, and a fair share still has to be allotted to you, but the share that's allotted to you has to be entirely donated to charity. The only benefit the party gains is that your "share" can be made up of the things that nobody has a use for and which were going to get sold anyway. Your party members can, of course, buy things which help you indirectly, but that counts against their shares, not yours.

Zhalath
2009-04-19, 09:15 PM
Edit 2: Wait, IIRC the Kensai requires a Masterworked weapon if it is put on a weapon. You could get away with your fists, but if you decide to use a weapon for this for some reason, you'd have to get the DM to rule that it is a special case that was given the nod by a certain deity. Considering that you have a buttload of Exalted feats in the first place, that would fit quite closely. And even Lawful Gods bend the rules or use loopholes.


Not true. From Complete Warrior itself:
"the process for imbuing the kensai's natural weapons is the same as for the manufactured weapon, except all of the kensai's natural weapons of one type (applies to all monk attacks, due to how Improved Unarmed Strike works for monks) are imbued at 100% of the cost+10% per natural weapon[(I]no effect on you, because all monk attacks are considered from one natural weapon. Monks make no distinction between a fist and a foot. Everything hurts.)[/I]"
In short, a monk kensai can make his unarmed strike a Signature Weapon, and no change in cost. Kensai may have average BAB, but the Signature Weapon power, as well as Power Surge, make it certainly worth consideration. Swear an oath to kicking butt, and never break it :belkar:

To whomever scoffs at the idea of:

My monk was all spec'd out to do some pretty sweet damage , I must remind you that a 12th level monk's unarmed strike deals 2d6 damage. Like a greatsword. And flurry of blows is 4 attacks at that point.

If your Dexterity is anywhere higher than your Strength (which it should be), take Weapon Finesse. Weapon Focus is also good, just for the little bump.
To he who said "Psionic Fist", let it be known that the feat boosts damage, not attack. Try this, if you have a lot of free feats:
Wild Talent -> Psionic Fist -> Unavoidable Strike
You'll need good Concentration to pull this off, as you need psionic focus, but if you expend that psionic focus, you can resolve an attack as a touch attack, meaning the enemy gets no armor bonus. (Hint: big creatures have bad touch AC. Go kill a dragon.)

I don't know what to do after that. My monk builds tend to be huge Dex+Weapon Finesse. Multiclassing to something like Fighter or something similar may be a good idea.

Flickerdart
2009-04-19, 09:20 PM
@ Zhalath.

a) Psionic Fist is a Prestige Class, named fist of Zuoken in the XPH. It is not a feat.
b) Damage isn't gained from dice, it's gained from crazy two-handed Power Attack shenanigans that the Monk doesn't have the ability to do, because of the lack of feats and two-handed weapons, as well as a likely lower STR than that of a focused melee character.

tyckspoon
2009-04-19, 09:23 PM
To whomever scoffs at the idea of:
, I must remind you that a 12th level monk's unarmed strike deals 2d6 damage. Like a greatsword. And flurry of blows is 4 attacks at that point.

If your Dexterity is anywhere higher than your Strength (which it should be), take Weapon Finesse. Weapon Focus is also good, just for the little bump.
To he who said "Psionic Fist", let it be known that the feat boosts damage, not attack. Try this, if you have a lot of free feats:
Wild Talent -> Psionic Fist -> Unavoidable Strik


And people who use weapons do 2d6 like a greatsword from level 1. Congratulations, you spent 12 levels matching the base damage everybody else can do for 50 gp. Now find a way to make your fists match up to the extra enchants and improved Strength bonus the other level 12 meleers are packing.

I'm pretty sure they meant the Psionic Fist prestige class, which advances monk speed, AC bonus, and unarmed damage while also granting limited Psychic Warrior manifesting.

Xenogears
2009-04-19, 09:24 PM
Yeah, treasure still has to be divided fairly, and a fair share still has to be allotted to you, but the share that's allotted to you has to be entirely donated to charity. The only benefit the party gains is that your "share" can be made up of the things that nobody has a use for and which were going to get sold anyway. Your party members can, of course, buy things which help you indirectly, but that counts against their shares, not yours.

Why does it still have to be divided fairly? I mean i've never read the rules on VoP but is there a specefic reason why the character with VoP can't just say he doesn't want a share?

Zhalath
2009-04-19, 09:28 PM
@ Zhalath.

a) Psionic Fist is a Prestige Class, named fist of Zuoken in the XPH. It is not a feat.
b) Damage isn't gained from dice, it's gained from crazy two-handed Power Attack shenanigans that the Monk doesn't have the ability to do, because of the lack of feats and two-handed weapons, as well as a likely lower STR than that of a focused melee character.

@Flickerdart

Psionic Fist is indeed a feat, from EPH.

@he and tyckspoon

Yeah, but I don't need to pay for my fists. I cannot be disarmed of my fists, unless they are cut off, in which case, I have bigger concerns. A nightwalker can't come and smash my fists. Put a good score in Strength. Take Power Attack. Plus, the fists get better. I don't see your greatsword permanently growing, with you being still as capable as using it.

tyckspoon
2009-04-19, 09:28 PM
Why does it still have to be divided fairly? I mean i've never read the rules on VoP but is there a specefic reason why the character with VoP can't just say he doesn't want a share?

Because the rules of VoP say you have to claim your normal share. There's no particularly good in-character reason for this, unless part of your character concept involves dedication to charity, in which case you take your proper share because you want to make sure your causes receive the correct benefit of your actions. More ascetically-inclined characters who just have no use for worldly goods at all just take the loot because the book says they have to.

Bluebeard
2009-04-19, 10:22 PM
a) Psionic Fist is a Prestige Class, named fist of Zuoken in the XPH. It is not a feat.


Psionic Fist is indeed a feat, from EPH.


The SRD is really (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#psionicFist) terrible (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/psionicFist.htm) when it comes to generic names.

And when I typed it, I meant the class, but Unavoidable Attack might solve some trouble too if it's used to land a Stun.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-04-19, 11:22 PM
@Flickerdart

Psionic Fist is indeed a feat, from EPH.

@he and tyckspoon

Yeah, but I don't need to pay for my fists. I cannot be disarmed of my fists, unless they are cut off, in which case, I have bigger concerns. A nightwalker can't come and smash my fists. Put a good score in Strength. Take Power Attack. Plus, the fists get better. I don't see your greatsword permanently growing, with you being still as capable as using it.Power Attack is considered a good investment because of the 2-for-1 scaling of THF. Str investment gives similar benefits(1.5x when 2-handed) under the same conditions. The problem quickly becomes that the Monk cannot THF with his fists. And while going level 20 monk US at 11th and then stacking size increases can help with base damage, you can't TWF for more attacks, which is the normal way of benefitting from bonus damage that isn't THF-specific. And most of the means of increasing fist size to lvl 20 Collasal++ involve cash(Monk's Belt, level 20 Greater Mighty Wallop item), which the OP banned himself from using.

And if you can be disarmed(Locked Gauntlets) or if your enemies can smash your weapon(look at the sunder rules, then look at the rules for magic Greatsword HP), or if 50 GP is an issue, then there is probably a problem larger than just your weapon choice.

Talic
2009-04-21, 02:55 AM
A dedicated sunderer can generally pound through most weapons.

An adamantine 2 hander in a charger build can often do it really quickly, actually.

Not usually a good option, but its there.

BlueWizard
2009-04-21, 06:03 AM
Steroids for strength. Talk to Canseco.

VirOath
2009-04-21, 08:45 PM
Not true. From Complete Warrior itself:
In short, a monk kensai can make his unarmed strike a Signature Weapon, and no change in cost. Kensai may have average BAB, but the Signature Weapon power, as well as Power Surge, make it certainly worth consideration. Swear an oath to kicking butt, and never break it :belkar:




Edit 2: Wait, IIRC the Kensai requires a Masterworked weapon if it is put on a weapon. You could get away with your fists, but if you decide to use a weapon for this for some reason, you'd have to get the DM to rule that it is a special case that was given the nod by a certain deity. Considering that you have a buttload of Exalted feats in the first place, that would fit quite closely. And even Lawful Gods bend the rules or use loopholes.

Emphasis given. Was referring to the list of Monk weapons, that if for some reason he wanted to make that his chosen weapon, it would have to be masterworked. Natural weapons, including unarmed strikes, are always exempted from those rules by common sense.

The body may be a weapon to the monk, but isn't considered a weapon without feats (Which the monk gets naturally). And fist is just an easy way of saying Monk Improved Unarmed Strikes, since a body block tackle counts as a punch by RAW for them.

But still, thanks for clearing that up :smallbiggrin:

ericgrau
2009-04-21, 10:21 PM
Ah yes, the flurry of misses on the mid BAB monk. Monks do less damage cuz they get less hits even with more attacks and their fists do less damage than weapons; even at higher levels they do less than magic weapons. If you look at the flurry column, your AB is -3 behind a full BAB character for most levels.

Here's how to get more hits with a monk:
1. Tripping is a touch attack, followed by an opposed strength check (not BAB+X check). There's also a monk weapon you can trip and flurry with.
2. Grapplers who fight with light weapons get a -4 penalty to hit. You can do grapple damage instead to get pretty decent unarmed damage without taking the -4 for using a light weapon. Even initiating the grapple deals unarmed damage.
3. Nunchakus give a +2 to disarm, while sais give a +4. On the wizards.com board one author talks about making a monk who's a disarming master and saying how it worked out really well in certain situations (i.e., when baddy has a nasty weapon). And he plays with the friggin' creators of D&D.
4. Stunning fist doesn't take an action, so if you have it you might as well use it each round with an unarmed strike to help make up for your lower damage. Pick targets with a low fort save.
5. Speed + tumble = you can pick the guy in the back line with a low AC. Or a low fort save. Or a bow or a light weapon or a wand which gives him a -4 to his disarm roll. Etc.
6. Be it greater magic fang or greater magic weapon, mage armor or magic vestment (on clothing), heroism or hero's feast, every caster has a buff for you. Ask for them.
7. This is all on top of your extra attack, which also helps make up for the -3 penalty. So flurry when you can.

Only when you cannot do any of those things should you resort to plain damage. At the very least you should try to combine grappling or stunning fist with your damage. Either will also make the target vulnerable to sneak attack or power attack or even just a lower AC for regular attacks from your allies, on top of your unarmed damage. All of the above are attack actions, which means you usually can make multiple attempts are part of a full attack.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-04-21, 10:30 PM
2. Grapplers who fight with light weapons get a -4 penalty to hit. You can do grapple damage instead to get pretty decent unarmed damage without taking the -4 for using a light weapon. Even initiating the grapple deals unarmed damage.The issue with Monk grapples is the same for every PC, but moreso. You've got low BAB and MAD, meaning less Str. You're not going to succeed against melee monsters, and vulnerable opponents can avoid you.
3. Nunchakus give a +2 to disarm, while sais give a +4. On the wizards.com board one author talks about making a monk who's a disarming master and saying how it worked out really well in certain situations (i.e., when baddy has a nasty weapon). And he plays with the friggin' creators of D&D.But those weapons take -4 for being light, while a Greatsword gets +4 just for being a big weapon(not mentioning things like the Spiked chain which get 6). And the creators of D&D play with Blaster Casters and Healbots. That's why 3.5 is the mess it is, and 4.x is so focused on 'party roles'.
4. Stunning fist doesn't take an action, so if you have it you might as well use it each round with an unarmed strike to help make up for your lower damage. Pick targets with a low fort save.Doesn't help with his initial problem(missing), which burns a SF attempt
5. Speed + tumble = you can pick the guy in the back line with a low AC.And high miss chance. Plus, you're the one always saying AC is far more optimizable than people think.

ericgrau
2009-04-21, 10:33 PM
The issue with Monk grapples is the same for every PC, but moreso. You've got low BAB and MAD, meaning less Str.
As I said, the monk's AB is 3 lower than a full BAB class. Other classes get a -4 penalty and a small weapon b/c their unarmed damage is sucktastic. The monk uses strength for practically every single attack listed. Any monk that doesn't make strength his very first stat is a lousy monk (unless he has weapon finesse or a similar means of substitution).

Similar answers for the rest of the points. You'll see that they work great with just a minute's examination from what I already said, and I don't want to spend forever explaining every little simple thing in the tiniest of detail.

Bluebeard
2009-04-21, 10:33 PM
3. Nunchakus give a +2 to disarm, while sais give a +4.
Meaning that unless you two-hand the nunchaku (which would be silly), a quarterstaff is going to be your best bet in a disarm. And if attack rolls are causing you trouble, attacks based on opposed attack rolls might not be the soundest of plans.

And you might try grappling but unless you get some Psychic Warrior powers going, don't expect much.

But yeah. Buffs, trips, stuns and targeting the Rogue-types will probably do you well.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-04-21, 10:40 PM
The monk's AB is 3 lower than a full BAB class. Other classes get a -4 penalty and a small weapon b/c their unarmed damage is suctastic. Every single one of my points is a way that gives the monk equal or higher AB than a full BAB class. Please read more carefully next time, to at least get the main point.I'm not talking about damaging during a Grapple. You admit that the Monk has 3 lower AB than a Barb or Fighter of the same level. The Barb gets 4 or more aditional Str from Rage and both can safely dump Dex and Wis to levels far lower than the Monk. That means they essentially have 5+(difference in Dex/Wis) Grapple more and most of them still can't Grapple well. Size mods+Massive Str add up. There's a reason the only ones who are recommended to Grapple are Druids(massive Str+Size compensating for lower AB, good natural weapons) and PsyWars(Massive Size/self-only buffs to weapons/Str).