[3.5] Mark of Death

[monty]

I'm working on a campaign idea, and I'm considering basing it at least partially on the Mark of Death dragonmark. Maybe there was another surviving member of the house, or maybe it just randomly showed up, or maybe something else; I haven't done many of the details yet. Plot hooks shouldn't be hard to come by, but as far as I can tell, the mark itself isn't detailed in any book. So, what would be some good abilities for it to grant at the various levels of power?

[Douglas]

Before anyone can answer that, we need to know how powerful you want the Mark of Death to be. Is it just another Mark on par with the rest that got wiped out solely due to its nature, or does it have some extra power behind it too? If it's more powerful than other dragonmarks, how big is the difference?

My personal opinion is that it should have more to distinguish it than just its nature as (presumably) a weapon for direct killing. If it's just the dragonmark that happens to be most directly and exclusively suited to war, I'd expect that to just lead to the house setting up as mercenaries, not the other houses spontaneously teaming up and completely annihilating them. If it grants substantially more power, however, that would easily explain a suitable level of jealousy and fear to cause such an alliance.

[monty]

It would definitely need to be substantially more powerful. Dangerous enough that whoever has it will be hunted by several different organizations at once.

[jcsw]

Well, you'd want the spells used to be level 1, on par with the other dragonmarks, but also improve the spell somehow.

For example:
Least Dragonmark:
Necromantic Spray 1/day: As color spray, except that
1. The maximum hit die affected is changed as such:
Stunned - Equal to HD+1
Blinded and Stunned - Equal to 2/3 HD, rounded up
Unconsious, Blinded, Stunned - Equal to half HD, rounded up
2. The spell's school is Necromancy instead, it is no longer [Mind Affecting]

[Vexxation]

I'd make Siberys far more powerful than any of the other marks. Grant Energy Drain, Weird, and, for wholesale slaughter of civilians, Symbol of Death.

It might seem a bit overpowered, but, meh. It's supposed to be feared.

Edit: Just read that stuff below that Baker said about undead...

Slap on Fell Animate Metamagic as you please.
Bwahahaha...

[Teron]

Before anyone can answer that, we need to know how powerful you want the Mark of Death to be. Is it just another Mark on par with the rest that got wiped out solely due to its nature, or does it have some extra power behind it too? If it's more powerful than other dragonmarks, how big is the difference?

My personal opinion is that it should have more to distinguish it than just its nature as (presumably) a weapon for direct killing. If it's just the dragonmark that happens to be most directly and exclusively suited to war, I'd expect that to just lead to the house setting up as mercenaries, not the other houses spontaneously teaming up and completely annihilating them. If it grants substantially more power, however, that would easily explain a suitable level of jealousy and fear to cause such an alliance.
I think you're confusing the annihilation of the Mark of Death with the latter War of the Mark waged between the Houses and the aberrant dragonmarked. The former, in short: Aereni culture was big on necromancy (what with the reverence for their ancestors, convenient manifest zones and what not), but there was a tense divide between those favouring negative energy and undead, led by the Vol family (there were no dragonmarked houses, or indeed significant contact between Aerenal and Khorvaire, at the time), and those who prefered deathless. Either philosophy could have come out on top eventually (and the Vols' position was certainly bolstered by the Mark of Death that opened the way to easy, powerful necromancy), but then the Vols got it into their heads to end the long-standing, on-and-off war with the dragons of Argonnessen by producing a half-dragon child. In a magnificent failure, the result was a truce reached for the sole purpose of destroying the half-breed "abomination" and the entire Vol bloodline that spawned it. Their followers were exiled, and brought traditions to Khorvaire that eventually became the Blood of Vol religion, and of course in the confusion one scaly, dragonmarked girl, turned into a lich by her mother, somehow got away... but no potential carrier of the Mark of Death escaped alive. Naturally, that was a significant "fringe benefit" of the whole affair for supporters of the nascent Undying Court.

As for its powers, Keith Baker has said -- not in any official capacity, but naturally many people respect his ideas about Eberron -- that the mark of death was indeed more powerful than the other marks, and that its powers probably pertained at least in part to the creation of undead, rather than just killing things. Also remember that, while the dragonmarks' intrinsic powers are nice, their real value, especially in the fluff, is in powering magic items and even eldritch machines which, by writer/DM fiat, can't be made to work otherwise. While such items don't currently exist for use with the Mark of Death, the prospect of something like a ghoul-producing counterpart to the warforged creation forges is the real threat posed by the Mark of Death -- well, that and I imagine the dragons would freak out about what its resurgence means for the Prophecy. In any case, anyone who manifests the Mark would have a big bloody bullseye on their back; Vol and members of the Chamber probably cast powerful divinations every week, at least, just to check whether it's popped up anywhere in the world on someone without the means or sense to hide themselves magically.

For mechanics, I'd probably go nuts and hand out stuff like animate dead as a least mark power.

[monty]

Yeah, I'm thinking some combination of "kill them all" and "turn them all into zombies."

[Olo Demonsbane]

Kill them all + Turn them into zombies = AoE spells with Fell Animate added on!

[Fizban]

I actually just read Dragonmarked, so I almost know what's going on. The problem I'd have with making the marks "more powerful" is that just arbitrarily granting better spells for the same prerequisites would put spells in the PC's hands that are more powerful than they should be.

I'd suggest keeping the same mark progression, but up the prerequisites a few levels so you can use higher level spells. That way the least mark can be animate dead (cleric 3) and go from there.

[The Gilded Duke]

The big advantage of dragonmarks is the lack of material components. It allows the dragonmarked houses to routinely cast spells and even sell their services cheaper then any other group can even cast the spells. This could be amazingly effective with necromancy even without having high caster level items.

You could go with:
Least: Hide from Undead or Death Watch with +2 Knowledge Religion
Lesser: Animate Dead or Speak with Dead
Greater: Magic Jar or Slay Living
Siberys: Create Greater Undead

With this setup you have a house who get cheap undead minions, completely avoiding the 25 or 50 gp cost per hit die who also is good at gathering information between Speak with Dead and Magic Jar. The ability to possess people or to kill them with a touch would help make the other houses wary of the house of death. And in the end they have the same level spell slots as the mark of handling.

[Uin]

The big advantage of dragonmarks is the lack of material components. It allows the dragonmarked houses to routinely cast spells and even sell their services cheaper then any other group can even cast the spells. This could be amazingly effective with necromancy even without having high caster level items.

You could go with:
Least: Hide from Undead or Death Watch with +2 Knowledge Religion
Lesser: Animate Dead or Speak with Dead
Greater: Magic Jar or Slay Living
Siberys: Create Greater Undead

With this setup you have a house who get cheap undead minions, completely avoiding the 25 or 50 gp cost per hit die who also is good at gathering information between Speak with Dead and Magic Jar. The ability to possess people or to kill them with a touch would help make the other houses wary of the house of death. And in the end they have the same level spell slots as the mark of handling.

This.

Plus it may be a good idea to create a couple of feats for the Mark of Death and a PrC, like those in the book Dragonmarked (which makes Dragonmarks way cool).

I went through a similar thing with Aberrant Dragonmarks to create "Aberrant Dragonmark Heir", "Heir of Khyber" plus "Aberrant Blade" and "Aberrant Caster" PrCs to give Aberrants an equal amount of shiggles.

[monty]

I actually just read Dragonmarked, so I almost know what's going on. The problem I'd have with making the marks "more powerful" is that just arbitrarily granting better spells for the same prerequisites would put spells in the PC's hands that are more powerful than they should be.

I'd suggest keeping the same mark progression, but up the prerequisites a few levels so you can use higher level spells. That way the least mark can be animate dead (cleric 3) and go from there.

The thing is, though, this isn't going to just be something anyone can take. The prerequisites don't matter, because the only people who will have it are the ones I want to have it anyway.

[JoshuaZ]

This.

Plus it may be a good idea to create a couple of feats for the Mark of Death and a PrC, like those in the book Dragonmarked (which makes Dragonmarks way cool).

I went through a similar thing with Aberrant Dragonmarks to create "Aberrant Dragonmark Heir", "Heir of Khyber" plus "Aberrant Blade" and "Aberrant Caster" PrCs to give Aberrants an equal amount of shiggles.

Ooh. Any chance you are going to post those here? I'd love to see those.

[Teron]

I actually just read Dragonmarked, so I almost know what's going on. The problem I'd have with making the marks "more powerful" is that just arbitrarily granting better spells for the same prerequisites would put spells in the PC's hands that are more powerful than they should be.

I'd suggest keeping the same mark progression, but up the prerequisites a few levels so you can use higher level spells. That way the least mark can be animate dead (cleric 3) and go from there.
A least mark power has a caster level of 1 without additional feats or class levels, and I don't think two human skeletons or one zombie would be too overpowering.


Ooh. Any chance you are going to post those here? I'd love to see those.
While it's only a fraction of what Uin has homebrewed, there's an official dragonmarked heir equivalent for aberrant 'marked here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20070416a).

[Uin]

While it's only a fraction of what Uin has homebrewed, there's an official dragonmarked heir equivalent for aberrant 'marked here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20070416a). Thanks Teron, I always try to use official stuff where possible.

On a minor note, this class is a wee bit worse than the standard Dragonmark Heir, mostly because you cannot gain new spell-like abilities. I run a lot of Star Wars Saga with its retroactive friendly force powers, so if someone gains a new spell-like with, say Improved Least at 2nd level, I let the Lesser Dragonmark Feat at 1st level increase the uses of both.

No favoured in house as a prereq tho, so you could probably take a nice high end dragonmarked feat at higher level and even it out. :smallsmile:

EDIT: I love how their example NPC is a monk, haha.
Rotting Bal CR 10
Male human monk 6/child of Khyber 4