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zagan
2009-04-21, 05:08 AM
Hello all !

I'm currently trying to create a backup character for a campaigne I'm currently in, just in case.

Here are the restriction I'm working under :



Eberron Campaign Setting, Continent of Sarlona.

Race allowed : Kalashtars and Humans (Adarans), Human (Riedran), Half-Giant, Dwarf, Shifter, Changeling, Dromite, Duergar (EPH 9), Eneko (SoS 109), Xeph, Tiefling.

32 point buy

No evil characters

Standard multiclassing rules apply.

Book allowed : Core books, Expanded Psionic Handbook, Complete Arcane, Complete Divine, Complete Adventurer, Complete Warrior, Complete Psionic, Eberron Campaign Setting, Secrets of Sarlona, any other Eberron source, most things from Mind's Eye (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/psi) (ask first)

We are currently level 5 but I want a 20 level built

The actual party is compose of a Kalashtar Barbarian/Soulknife/Soulbow, Human Psychic Warrior, Human Telepath, Divine Mind/Spirit Shaman and my current character Human Rogue/Shaper going in Shadowmind next level.

As you can see we are far from optimized but it shouldn't be a problem.



I want to play a Shifter that concentrate on taking as many Shifter feat as possible and that fight mostly using natural weapon.

So far I got that:

Eerod Ergit (A cookie for the one who find what the name mean)
Shifter with the Razorclaw trait

Ranger Shifter substitution level 1 Razorclaw elite
Ranger 2
Ranger 3 Healing factor
Ranger Shifter substitution level 4
Ranger 5
Ranger 6 Great Rend
Weretouch master (Tiger) 1
Weretouch master 2 *Improve natural attack ( Claw)
Weretouch master 3 *Shifter multiattack (gain pounce)
Weretouch master 4 *Extra shifter trait Longtooth
Weretouch master 5
Ranger 7 Improve natural attack (Bite)

Afterward I don't know were to go.

My main problem being that I don't know how two weapon fighting and natural attack interact.

Secondly I believe there is a mean to gain a third Shifter trait because I like to have a gore attack. That way on a charge I can do Gore, Claw, Claw, Bite, Rend.
But I don't remember from where it is.

Thirdly what become my attack routine (with or wothout gore) when I shapshift into a tiger or hybrid form ?

And finally do you know a mean for me to give up my spellcasting progression for full druid level when calculating animal companion bonus ?

Any help would be greatly appreciate, In advance thank you.

Zincorium
2009-04-21, 07:22 AM
I would like to quickly point out that the errata for weretouched master drastically drops the stat boosts that you get- make sure whether or not your DM is going for the errata'd version or the book one.


Also, Warshaper. If you qualify and spend a lot of time shifted, it can't really be beat. The immunity to sneak attack you get at 2nd level could be a capstone for a 10 level class and no one would bat an eye. And then it just keeps giving you more cool stuff.

zagan
2009-04-21, 07:41 AM
Thank you !! Warshapper look awesome, and I will definitely take it.

Do you know were I can found the errata for weretouch master ? In case my Dm Want to see it.

Nate the Snake
2009-04-21, 05:03 PM
You can download the Eberron errata here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a

As for a third shifter trait, you have:
- druid 18, benefit of racial substitution 1
- moonspeaker 9 (requires 2nd level divine spells)
- bloodclaw master, racial variant gives razorclaw trait

Shifter druid and moonspeaker are in Races of Eberron, bloodclaw master is in Tome of Battle.

I'd start with gorebrute or longtooth, get the other one with Extra Shifter Trait, then take bloodclaw master (dip warblade to qualify) for razorclaw.

Chronos
2009-04-21, 08:10 PM
Tome of Battle isn't one of his allowed sources.

And the benefits of Warshaper only apply when you're in a form other than your natural one, and it might be debatable whether shifting qualifies for that. You still have basically the same form, you've just got claws or big teeth in that form. The Alternate Form from Weretouched Master should work, though, so get that before you take Warshaper.

zagan
2009-04-22, 04:51 AM
Yeah, sadly I don't have acces to TOB for this campaigne otherwise it would have been perfect but I take a note of it just in case I get to use the character in another campaign.

My current build look like that:

1 Ranger 1 Razorclaw elite
2 Ranger 2
3 Ranger 3 Healing factor
4 Ranger 4
5 Ranger 5
6 Weretouch master 1 Great Rend
7 Weretouch master 2 *Improve natural attack ( Claw)
8 Weretouch master 3
9 Weretouch master 4 *Shifter multiattack, (Improve multiattack)
10 Weretouch master 5
11 Warshaper 1
12 Warshaper 2 Weapon focus (claw)
13 Warshaper 3
14 Warshaper 4
15 Warshaper 5 Combat expertise
16 Kensai 1
17 Kensai 2
18 Kensai 3
19 Kensai 4
20 Kensai 5

I add 5 Kensai level to be able to enchant my claw, not sure on the order perhaps change it to take kensai sooner.

I decide to forget completly my animal companion to focus on natural weapon.

That leave me with only two question: two weapon fighting and natural attack how they interact ?

And what equipement I should buy ? An amulet of natural weapon +5 seems a good idea that way I use my kensai enchantment to take special propertie.
Other idea ?

Zincorium
2009-04-22, 09:21 AM
I add 5 Kensai level to be able to enchant my claw, not sure on the order perhaps change it to take kensai sooner.

I decide to forget completly my animal companion to focus on natural weapon.

That leave me with only two question: two weapon fighting and natural attack how they interact ?

And what equipement I should buy ? An amulet of natural weapon +5 seems a good idea that way I use my kensai enchantment to take special propertie.
Other idea ?

Two weapon fighting and natural attacks don't interact at all. Really, they don't. You can be fighting with two weapons and use any non-claw natural attacks as secondary (-5, 1/2 str to damage) in addition, but they still don't affect each other in terms of iteratives and penalties.

I personally would drop warshaper 5 for another level of kensai, as kensai is pretty much the best way to add enchantments to natural attacks unless your DM allows special amulets.

And ranger animal companions are pretty much mooks, pick something small and sneaky rather than attempting to get a combat pet.

Darrin
2009-04-22, 09:41 AM
I decide to forget completly my animal companion to focus on natural weapon.


Consider trading your animal companion for an Alternate Class Feature (ACF). In PHBII, there's Distracting Attack: hit an enemy with a melee or ranged attack, and they are considered flanked until one of your allies hits them.

In Dragon #347, there's another ACF called Solitary Hunter. Give up your animal companion, and you can apply your favored enemy bonus to attack as well as damage.

There are some other ranger variants that might be worth looking at. Mystic Ranger (Dragon #336) trades your animal companion, martial melee weapon proficiency, shield proficiency, and delays your combat style by a level in exchange for earlier and expanded spellcasting (0th level and 5th level spells). The simple (aka Wildshape) ranger from Unearthed Arcana drops your combat style for Wildshape at Ranger 5. The Wild Defender variant (Dragon #324) trades favored enemy, track, combat style, and most other ranger abilities for early spellcasting and some Paladinish abilities such as smile evil and rebuke nature.



That leave me with only two question: two weapon fighting and natural attack how they interact ?


One thing you have to be careful about with natural weapons is they can only be used once per round, so you can't get multiple iterative attacks with them for having a high BAB. If a creature has natural weapons, then it's stat block will give you the attack progression, which does not change due to it's BAB or HD. Usually there is a primary natural attack, and any other natural attacks after that are secondary attacks with a -5 penalty (or -2 with multiattack). If you gain any natural attacks through a spell, class ability, etc., it should tell you what you can attack with as a standard action and what you can attack with as a full-round action.

Although this can be restrictive, there is an upside: any natural attack that you don't use as your primary attack can be added after your full-round iterative attack as a secondary attack with a -5 penalty, so long as you're not using that limb/appendage for something else.

What this means for your Weretouched Master... well, it looks like you've got two claw attacks. As per your shifter racial ability, you can attack with one claw as a standard attack or two claws as a full attack.

If you put a manufactured weapon in one hand (or claw, as it were), then it's a little different. You can attack with a sword, for example, and get your full iterative attacks. Your other claw can be added as a secondary attack with a -5 penalty. If you also have a bite attack, then you can add that as a secondary attack as well.

Something else you might want to consider... you might be able to slip in a level of Fist of the Forest (Complete Champion) after Ranger 4. This would give you an unarmed strike ability similar to that of a monk, which counts as both a manufactured and natural weapon. This allows you to make your full iterative attack with your unarmed strike (which can be an elbow or a foot or whatever), and then add both your claw attacks as secondary attacks with a -5 penalty.



And what equipement I should buy ? An amulet of natural weapon +5 seems a good idea that way I use my kensai enchantment to take special propertie.
Other idea ?

No no no, you want a Necklace of Natural Weapons (Savage Species p. 58). You can enchant the necklace with any enhancements or weapon abilities and they apply to all your natural attacks.

If you don't pick up an unarmed strike via Fist of the Forest, then get a Monk's Belt and/or Fanged Ring (Dragon Magic p. 101, 10000 GP). This will give you an unarmed strike you can use with your iterative attacks, allowing you to add both claw attacks at a -5 penalty after your unarmed strikes. Your Necklace of Natural Weapons should apply to these attacks as well.

Keep a Golembane Scarab and a Ring of Adamantine Touch (MIC p. 121, 6000 GP) handy to get past pesky DRs. Wyrmfang Amulet (MIC p. 148, 1350 GP) might also do a pinch of the Necklace of Natural Weapons or Amulet of Natural Attacks isn't available.

Once you get pounce, pick up an Anklet of Translocation (MIC p. 71, a steal for only 1400 GP). This lets you teleport 10' as a swift action 2/day. This allows you to back up 10' from an opponent and then charge again for a full attack. Chronocharm of the Horizon Walker (MIC p. 87, 500 GP) has a similar ability 1/day. Rhino hide armor (+2d6 damage on charge attacks) might also be a good investment.

Some other great bargains:

Amber Amulet of Vermin, Giant Wasp (MIC p. 68, 800 GP): 1/day, summon a flying mount for 15 rounds. Mostly to wipe that smugness off the face of those annoying flying spellcasters.

Scout's Headband (MIC p. 132, 3400 GP): True seeing 1/day for 1 minute.

Talisman of the Disk (MIC p. 188, 500 GP): Tenser's floating disk at will. Hundreds of uses, including a "sidecar" when combined with a fly spell/effect, or a fancy way to transport 2 gallons of beer.

zagan
2009-04-22, 11:03 AM
Thank you very much thats exactly what I want. Sadly I can't use Dragon magazine but Wilshap ranger with Distracting attack look perfect.

Can't use Fist of the forrest complete champion isn't in my liste of allowed book and event then I need 3 feat to qualify.

Thank you for the list of magical item it's great.

So my build will be something like that:

1 Wildshap Ranger 1 Razorclaw elite
2 Ranger 2
3 Ranger 3 Healing factor or improved unarmed strike
4 Ranger 4 (Distracting attack) in place of animal companion
5 Ranger 5
6 Weretouch master 1 Great Rend
7 Weretouch master 2 *Improve natural attack ( Claw)
8 Weretouch master 3
9 Weretouch master 4 *Shifter multiattack, Combat expertise
10 Weretouch master 5
11 Warshaper 1
12 Warshaper 2 Weapon focus (claw)
13 Warshaper 3
14 Warshaper 4
15 Kensai 1 (Improve multiattack)
16 Kensai 2
17 Kensai 3
18 Kensai 4 (Extra shifter trait Longtooth)
19 Kensai 5
20 Kensai 6

Appart from perhaps changing a little the order in wich I take Kensai and Warshaper I think I'm all set.

Again thank you all for you help.