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Zergrusheddie
2009-04-21, 06:17 AM
I just read about a Create Food/Water Trap and even frantically searching using the Mighty Google has failed me. I have never heard of anything this silly in a while; how does it work?

arguskos
2009-04-21, 06:23 AM
Use the trap creation rules to make an automatic reset, pressure trigger trap of Create Food and Water.

It's... really simple, actually. The main idea is that you have people walk over it, triggering it, to get food. It then automatically resets, letting someone else do the same thing. It's a silly thing, but it's the first brick in the road to the Tippyverse.

Riffington
2009-04-21, 06:34 AM
Not to be confused with the "barbecue sauce" trap, which sprays PCs with a tasty and tangy sauce before they enter the red dragon's lair...

Tempest Fennac
2009-04-21, 06:41 AM
I never got how these traps never became standard issue in D&D worlds considering how many people it would free up for other things due to the lack of need for farming. Incidentally, would a level 5 Cleric be able to make traps which did this? (I know that's when they can first cast Create Food and Water).

Jack_Simth
2009-04-21, 06:46 AM
I just read about a Create Food/Water Trap and even frantically searching using the Mighty Google has failed me. I have never heard of anything this silly in a while; how does it work?
As arguskos hinted at, the intent of the trap isn't to hurt anyone - it's to feed a nation.

See, the rules (such as they are) for traps don't care what spell you use in a magic trap, they don't have per-day limits, any spell you put in there technically takes effect instantly on triggering the trap, and there's no required delay for an automatic reset trap - which means that if you put a beneficial spell into one (Create Food and Water, Endure Elements, Cure X Wounds, Fabricate, Heal, True Resurrection, whatever) and put it in a publicly accessible space, you can significantly improve society by freeing up the labor currently used to support the population to do other tasks. For instance, if nobody needs to farm, you can have everyone trained in a Craft, and thus everyone has more and better goods (as they don't have to spend either time or money on little things like food and disease control, they get to spend their time and money on getting nice things, instead). Down side: It tends towards monopolistic tendancies in whoever's running things. With Emperor Tippy, it was a fairly extreme case (I debated him once - his idea of dealing with a government that wanted to tax his business was to mind-control the leaders).


I never got how these traps never became standard issue in D&D worlds considering how many people it would free up for other things due to the lack of need for farming. Incidentally, would a level 5 Cleric be able to make traps which did this? (I know that's when they can first cast Create Food and Water).

The only requirements are: you be able to cast the spell; you have the cash, time, and XP for crafting; and you've got Craft Wondrous Item. So yes, if the Cleric takes the feat at 3rd level, no problem.

What stops it? Well... put it this way: What will it cost the Cleric to create it, and assuming peasantry that's currently running around earning 1 sp/day for untrained labor, how long will it take the cleric to break even selling tasteless food?

Fizban
2009-04-21, 06:46 AM
Only if he had another character at a really high level to help, because you can't spend enough xp voluntarily to decrease a level, at least from casting and crafting.

Edit: Ninja'd, but not on the same question.

Double Edit: Nothing to see here, carry on.

Jack_Simth
2009-04-21, 06:51 AM
Only if he had another character at a really high level to help, because you can't spend enough xp voluntarily to decrease a level, at least from casting and crafting.

Umm... for a trap with no expensive components (such as Create Food and Water, under question), the cost is +500 gp × caster level × spell level, +40 XP × caster level × spell level; in the case of Create Food and Water (spell level 3, caster level 5), that's 7,500 gp and 600 xp - within normal range for a 5th level character (although it does eat up a lot of wealth by level at that point).

hewhosaysfish
2009-04-21, 06:53 AM
The "rules" for creating a trap" (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/traps.htm#designingATrap) allow you to create a trap which which casts a given spell every time someone walks over it.
If you make a trap with create food and water as the triggered spell then you get a thing which can create food (and water) out of thin air every 6 seconds as someone sets it off. It's stationary (because it's a trap) but it cost significantly less than a use-activated Wondrous Item of the same spell. (half, in fact: 7,500 gp and 600xp vs. 15,000 gp and 1,200 xp).

Basically: using magic to solve the worlds problems (which is a fair enough idea) and abusing the differences between the magic item creation rules and the trap creation rules (and a lax definition of "trap") to do it on the cheap.

Zergrusheddie
2009-04-21, 06:54 AM
Tippyverse is another term I've read thrown around these forums. I know it refers to Emperor Tippy, but does anyone have the original link?

Fizban
2009-04-21, 07:03 AM
Umm... for a trap with no expensive components (such as Create Food and Water, under question), the cost is +500 gp × caster level × spell level, +40 XP × caster level × spell level; in the case of Create Food and Water (spell level 3, caster level 5), that's 7,500 gp and 600 xp - within normal range for a 5th level character (although it does eat up a lot of wealth by level at that point).

My bad, as they say. I forgot just how much cheaper traps are, and didn't do the math.

Tempest Fennac
2009-04-21, 07:10 AM
I was thinking more about the idea of a Cleric making the trap to help people, or the idea of an evil aristocrat commisioning it so that people have more time to train so he could take over the world. Also, a Prestigitation Trap could take care of the lack of flavour, while cleaning people who used it. Endure Elements and Remove X condition would make clothing and doctors obsolete as well, but I'm guiessing Clerics couldn't die out due to how the traps would need maintaining (assuming you ignore RAW, which says they don't need maintaining for some reason).

Cheesegear
2009-04-21, 07:22 AM
Tippyverse is another term I've read thrown around these forums. I know it refers to Emperor Tippy, but does anyone have the original link?

There is no such 'place' as the Tippyverse. The 'Tippyverse' is a place where Players can actually do whatever they like and 'RAW is Law' and GMs apparently don't exist. Magic seems to work a different way when Tippy describes it.


His idea of dealing with a government that wanted to tax his business was to mind-control the leaders.

It's almost like you expected something other than that? :smallamused:

Mewtarthio
2009-04-21, 07:40 AM
There is no such 'place' as the Tippyverse. The 'Tippyverse' is a place where Players can actually do whatever they like and 'RAW is Law' and GMs apparently don't exist. Magic seems to work a different way when Tippy describes it.

More specifically: There is not, as far as I know, an "official" Tippyverse, like there is an official Logic Ninja wizard. The term "Tippyverse" refers to a world ruled by wizards, akin to what is described in nearly all of Tippy's posts.

Another_Poet
2009-04-21, 09:33 AM
Okay, I see where you guys are going - a rules exploit for unlimited food.

But it gives me an idea for a very evil trap.

1. Take a small dried apricot or date and turn it into a trap of Create Food & Water. Pressure-trigger, onset delay 5 rds, auto reset.

2. Bake it inside a small fruit-bread.

3. Give it to the person you hate.

4. Put on your rain coat and stand back. Might want to wear goggles too.

mwahahahahaha....

lilhowie624
2009-04-21, 10:39 AM
LOL i love it

gonna have to try it in my next campaign

Kris Strife
2009-04-21, 11:14 AM
Not to be confused with the "barbecue sauce" trap, which sprays PCs with a tasty and tangy sauce before they enter the red dragon's lair...

I am not allowed to baste the elf before fighting the dragon.

kjones
2009-04-21, 11:48 AM
Dungeonscape recognizes this silliness for what it is, and contains actual rules for crafting traps with beneficial effects (in the context of having monsters use them to their advantage during encounters, with the recognition that PCs might try to use them to their own advantage during or after the encounter). For example, consider a battle with some monsters with a trap that casts haste on them.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-04-21, 11:54 AM
Dungeonscape recognizes this silliness for what it is, and contains actual rules for crafting traps with beneficial effects (in the context of having monsters use them to their advantage during encounters, with the recognition that PCs might try to use them to their own advantage during or after the encounter). For example, consider a battle with some monsters with a trap that casts haste on them.I think those rules were intended for things like Undead with an Uttercold Cone of Cold trap, not primarily buff spells, though they're probably better for buffs than the core rules.

Darth Stabber
2009-04-21, 01:09 PM
Had a group of Psions, Wizards, and Clerics of Baccob create a Plane once (for a game that I was GMing) that was based on Tippy's postings. Only instead of create food traps it was a sustenance trap, but it was the same net effect, Oh and there were construction golems, table traps that cast heroes feast in the main Banquet hall (for special occasions), prestidigitation traps for cleaning up, summon monster traps for training the young up and comers in arenas (cheap source of XP, also various craftsmen got some xp their before building stuff), Healing Traps, Resurrection traps, Planeshift/Teleport Traps, and the big one, the Wish trap in the meeting chamber. The players had a base of operations, and could go about their business, and there was the added benefit, that if I wanted them to be a higher level before an adventure, they had a convenient place to grind.

chiasaur11
2009-04-21, 02:44 PM
Okay, I see where you guys are going - a rules exploit for unlimited food.

But it gives me an idea for a very evil trap.

1. Take a small dried apricot or date and turn it into a trap of Create Food & Water. Pressure-trigger, onset delay 5 rds, auto reset.

2. Bake it inside a small fruit-bread.

3. Give it to the person you hate.

4. Put on your rain coat and stand back. Might want to wear goggles too.

mwahahahahaha....

Aren't traps immobile?

I'd always assumed there were rules about that.

kopout
2009-04-21, 03:35 PM
Had a group of Psions, Wizards, and Clerics of Baccob create a Plane once (for a game that I was GMing) that was based on Tippy's postings. Only instead of create food traps it was a sustenance trap, but it was the same net effect, Oh and there were construction golems, table traps that cast heroes feast in the main Banquet hall (for special occasions), prestidigitation traps for cleaning up, summon monster traps for training the young up and comers in arenas (cheap source of XP, also various craftsmen got some xp their before building stuff), Healing Traps, Resurrection traps, Planeshift/Teleport Traps, and the big one, the Wish trap in the meeting chamber. The players had a base of operations, and could go about their business, and there was the added benefit, that if I wanted them to be a higher level before an adventure, they had a convenient place to grind.

So... you made the Tippyverse in game. Have a cookie, on me.

Jack_Simth
2009-04-21, 05:20 PM
There is no such 'place' as the Tippyverse. The 'Tippyverse' is a place where Players can actually do whatever they like and 'RAW is Law' and GMs apparently don't exist. Magic seems to work a different way when Tippy describes it.

Pretty much. It also requires some conceptual changes from medievalist thought that aren't likely to occur to anyone other than players.

It's almost like you expected something other than that? :smallamused:Well, it mostly came up when he kept trying to insist that he wasn't building an evil empire in building and maintaining a Tippy community.

It's not an evil empire ... but he deals with simple business competition (someone else offering similiar services, who doesn't want to buy in to Tippy's control) by destroying his opponents infrastructure and mindraping his competitors into working for him if they don't deal with him willingly.

It's not an evil empire ... but if the local government decides to impose tarriffs on goods going through a Teleportation Circle he put up in the area is dealt with by either killing and replacing the government officials, or mind-controlling them all.

It's not an evil empire ... but his plans are to offer most services for free, initially, gain a monopolistic stranglehold on the community, and then start charging after there is no competition anymore.

It was mostly the "not evil" bit he kept insisting on that I didn't agree with. Mind you, if you do it right, you CAN get a non-evil version of the Tippyverse (you permit competition to exist, and charge a small amount for all services from the get-go, then hire everyone who needs hiring for make-work that doesn't appear to be make-work)... but that wasn't in Emperor Tippy's version of it.

TheCountAlucard
2009-04-21, 05:47 PM
Didn't another aspect of the Tippyverse involve systematically murdering all rogues, so as to prevent them from disarming said traps?

Tyrmatt
2009-04-21, 06:08 PM
When I saw the title of this thread, I automatically assumed it was a room that started to fill up with bread and water after players tripped it, slowly suffocating them...
I'm sensing a Candyland style campaign here.

MeklorIlavator
2009-04-21, 06:26 PM
Pretty much. It also requires some conceptual changes from medievalist thought that aren't likely to occur to anyone other than players.

Well, that ignores the question of how a "medievalist" thought process came to be in a world so unsuited for said thought process.

Plus, I'm not quite sure if that even works, as the idea should apeal to any aggressive noble: no need for farmers means that you're army can swell to a ridiculous size(for the time) quite easily, which would give you an advantage over other armies.

oxybe
2009-04-21, 06:26 PM
The evil breadbox trap:

this is a large yet simple chest containing 3 shelves with 5 compartments each (5 long ones side by side, each with a removable wooden cup on the end).

when opened, a "DING!" noise (like that of a small bell) will be heard and it will instantly create 15 400g loaves of bread and fill the 15 cups with water. the bread is highly nutritious and will taste sweet and freshly baked upon removal, though after an hour it will start becoming bland, and after a day it will become stale and decay. the cups contain rainwater, cold and fresh.

cost:
CLERIC
500x5x3 (7500) GP (Create food and water -> 15 loaves & drinking water on open)
40x5x3 (600) XP

WIZARD
0.5x1x2000 (1000) GP ("continuously" casts prestidigitation -> all food inside tastes like fresh bread on open)
1000/25 (40) XP

so for 8500 GP you can have an unlimited amount of delicious bread (for the first hour) and water.

The Glyphstone
2009-04-21, 06:32 PM
Tangentially related to the topic, but amusing enough to be worth it, was a homebrew Assassin base class written by Tippy that I once saw...its level 20 capstone ability was the ability to ignore/be immune to Mindrape or any similar effect while fooling the caster into believing the effect worked fine. i wasn't surprised in the least. :smallcool:

Asbestos
2009-04-21, 06:38 PM
Had a group of Psions, Wizards, and Clerics of Baccob create a Plane once (for a game that I was GMing) that was based on Tippy's postings. Only instead of create food traps it was a sustenance trap, but it was the same net effect, Oh and there were construction golems, table traps that cast heroes feast in the main Banquet hall (for special occasions), prestidigitation traps for cleaning up, summon monster traps for training the young up and comers in arenas (cheap source of XP, also various craftsmen got some xp their before building stuff), Healing Traps, Resurrection traps, Planeshift/Teleport Traps, and the big one, the Wish trap in the meeting chamber. The players had a base of operations, and could go about their business, and there was the added benefit, that if I wanted them to be a higher level before an adventure, they had a convenient place to grind.

I would be interested in knowing how much GP that cost... and how much gold that physically is... and if there is even that much gold in the world.

Do people ever consider this problem in D&D? That gold is a finite resource and only worth anything because of its rarity? I think estimates put all the gold ever mined ever to be at 158,000 tonnes. Since 3.x has weight for GP we can, assuming that GP is 24k gold (or we can drop it down to 18k if we want, but that needs more math), calculate what percentage of the total earth's supply of gold the party would need access to in order to produce such a ludicrous situation.


I figure that no one in the Tippyverse is concerned about the cat girls.


Edit: Found a useful measurement. 1 pound of gold dust = 50 gp in D&D therefor 50 gp = 1lb of 25k gold. Therefor the above example of the fresh bread and water trap requires 170 lbs of pure gold. This works out to 2720 english system ounces of gold... but gold is commonly done in troy ounces which are about 14 and 7/12 to the lb. Gold bars are most commonly 400 troy ounces so... its 6 bars of pure 24k gold and change to make that single above trap. Or if you use the 3.x exchange system it is: 8,500 lbs of cinnamon, 8,500 goats, 1,700 pounds of salt, 850 cows, or 2,833 and third pigs.

Also... how exactly is wealth spent in item creation? Are you literally buying stuff? Does a Tippyverse creation cause the crash of the local economy before it is even up and running?

SurlySeraph
2009-04-21, 06:53 PM
Didn't another aspect of the Tippyverse involve systematically murdering all rogues, so as to prevent them from disarming said traps?

I believe so, yes. I also remember an Assassin homebrew base class that Tippy made, as a thought experiment to see what kind of individual you would need to threaten the control of the wizards. Among other things, it had explicit immunity to mindrape.

EDIT: And I got multi-simu'd. No surprise, really.

On another note, has anyone considered actually homebrewing the Tippyverse as a campaign setting? It'd be very interesting to play in, especially if you played as non-full-casters trying to overthrow the wizards.

MeklorIlavator
2009-04-21, 07:19 PM
On another note, has anyone considered actually homebrewing the Tippyverse as a campaign setting? It'd be very interesting to play in, especially if you played as non-full-casters trying to overthrow the wizards.

Well, Kinda. I believe Tippy did make his world in some manner(he ran a champaign in one such place), but really, the world is simple: there are X number of Cities(where all the really amazing stuff happens, ruled by high level full casters). Then there is the zone a few miles around the cities, that is essentially clear land. No big threats, though there are small settlements. This is essentially the perfect area for low level characters. Finally, there are the wilds, far enough from any one city that there are substantial threats(to mid-level parties, not to actual Cities). That's essentially it.

Note that in a "True" Tippy verse non-casters can't win unless the casters let them/give them large amount of assistance.

I actually have been using this for my homebrewed world(it was Tippyverse, but due to events has fallen).

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-04-21, 07:28 PM
Even better...

Do this with Cure Light Wounds instead of Create Food/Water and you have unlimited, infinite healing for 500gp and 40 xp. Have a nice day. Lesser Vigor does the same thing as well, but affects the whole party one point per round instead. Same low price.

Berserk Monk
2009-04-21, 07:31 PM
This thread reminds me of this one idea for trapping the tarrasque. Take a 12,000 cubic foot box, attach a rope to a 500 ft pole, set up a trail of peasants leading inside, and play the waiting game.:smallbiggrin:

Roderick_BR
2009-04-21, 07:54 PM
(...) 'RAW is Law' and GMs apparently don't exist. Magic seems to work a different way when Tippy describes it.

Actually, it's the opposite. Magic works EXACTLY as it says in the books, due to the lack of a reasoned GM.

Jack_Simth
2009-04-21, 07:56 PM
Also... how exactly is wealth spent in item creation? Are you literally buying stuff? Does a Tippyverse creation cause the crash of the local economy before it is even up and running?
Not particularly spelled out in RAW. Under Magic Items Creation Costs, it's called the "Magic supplies" - so you could be spending the money on the breath of a fish, the shadow of a flame, hen's teeth, and so on. Or you could be burning platinum to make magical circutry. Check with your DM.


On another note, has anyone considered actually homebrewing the Tippyverse as a campaign setting? It'd be very interesting to play in, especially if you played as non-full-casters trying to overthrow the wizards.
Partially. If you throw in a civilization ending "event" that always seems to happen by the time people start playing around with 9th level spells, it even gets you something very similar to "standard" D&D. Basic cycle:

Town gets to the point where it's feasible to start building public works "traps" - Endure Elements, create Water, and Cure X wounds. The resources these free up let the population expand a bit more, and with the D&D level distribution tables, higher-level characters come into play, raising the spell level available for public works traps, so more public works "traps" come into being - Create food and Water, Cure Poison, Cure Disease, Regenerate, and so on, as the population the city can support expands, and as the highest-level available caster goes up. Somewhere along the line, a (homebrewed) "snap" occurs for individual cities - something (accumulated magical "waste", a researched spell gone horribly wrong on casting, a Wizard mad with power, a deity upset that his worshipers no longer need him, whatever) causes a chain reaction that disrupts most magical devices, most active spells, and mutates, kills, or reanimates most living things in the area in horrible ways; the very ground responds to the wound by burying the place. The maze of sewers connecting the buildings remains, giving the place a tunnel structure between basements. Monsters that can deal with the light wander out of the area, in search of food ... but don't go too far, being tied to the place of their "birth", subsisting at least partially on the magical wastes from the place.

While a city yet lives, though, it's got some fallout - every city produces undesirables, who end up outside the city's walls, for one reason or another. Many of these band together for self-defense against the monsters wandering from fallen cities, and form villages, which can eventually grow into more cities - so the humanoids don't die out when the cities implode. Likewise, a still-healthy city ends up with a lot of mages, who of course produce magical items, and also a lot of craftsmen, who produce regular items.

What's the net result?
At any given moment, you have different "levels" of dungeons (what was the highest-level spell available to the city when it died?), you get magical items buried in strange places (some of them survived), lots of monsters (twisted or animated inhabitants, or their descendants) in dungeons (old sewers, protected spaces from the burying, basements that were added in to the sewer network), wandering monsters, and inhabitations varying from outlaw bands to simple villages (a "settled" band of outlaws...) to full-fledged Metropolises (which don't have much longer for the world).

The best part? There's not necessarily any way for those inside at any given moment to realize what, exactly, they're living in.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-04-21, 08:16 PM
I would be interested in knowing how much GP that cost... and how much gold that physically is... and if there is even that much gold in the world.

Do people ever consider this problem in D&D? That gold is a finite resource and only worth anything because of its rarity? I think estimates put all the gold ever mined ever to be at 158,000 tonnes. Since 3.x has weight for GP we can, assuming that GP is 24k gold (or we can drop it down to 18k if we want, but that needs more math), calculate what percentage of the total earth's supply of gold the party would need access to in order to produce such a ludicrous situation.


I figure that no one in the Tippyverse is concerned about the cat girls.

Edit: Found a useful measurement. 1 pound of gold dust = 50 gp in D&D therefor 50 gp = 1lb of 25k gold. Therefor the above example of the fresh bread and water trap requires 170 lbs of pure gold. This works out to 2720 english system ounces of gold... but gold is commonly done in troy ounces which are about 14 and 7/12 to the lb. Gold bars are most commonly 400 troy ounces so... its 6 bars of pure 24k gold and change to make that single above trap. Or if you use the 3.x exchange system it is: 8,500 lbs of cinnamon, 8,500 goats, 1,700 pounds of salt, 850 cows, or 2,833 and third pigs.

Also... how exactly is wealth spent in item creation? Are you literally buying stuff? Does a Tippyverse creation cause the crash of the local economy before it is even up and running?Wish/Miracle can create 25,000 GP(less if you're getting it by beating up someone with it as an SLA).

Jack_Simth
2009-04-21, 08:40 PM
Wish/Miracle can create 25,000 GP(less if you're getting it by beating up someone with it as an SLA).
Miracle doesn't have the same Safe-List as does Wish. Miracle doesn't do the money-making bit, but then, it also doesn't have the inherent XP cost, either.

Waspinator
2009-04-22, 12:29 AM
To rephrase a quote I once heard, the Tippyverse is like the horizon: more of a concept than a corporeal being. Very few people would actually run a campaign inside such a society since it does not match the standards of fantasy universes that most people like.

The ruins of one can be fun to play in, though. It's my personal pet theory that Eberron's Mournland was caused by some artificer saying "Hey, do you know what would be neat? A raise dead trap!" Some magical wires got crossed and *BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!*

Talic
2009-04-22, 12:45 AM
I believe Waspinator reads Dilbert. LOL.

horseboy
2009-04-22, 04:41 PM
There is no such 'place' as the Tippyverse. The 'Tippyverse' is a place where Players can actually do whatever they like and 'RAW is Law' and GMs apparently don't exist. Magic seems to work a different way when Tippy describes it.It's more like RAW, taken to it's logical conclusion. The DM has to find reasons to not allow Tippyverse to occur. Last I heard, he was working on a setting based on his philosophy, but I don't know if he got it done or not.


Endure Elements and Remove X condition would make clothing and doctors obsolete as well, but I'm guiessing Clerics couldn't die out due to how the traps would need maintaining (assuming you ignore RAW, which says they don't need maintaining for some reason).
Well, technically Endure Elements doesn't make clothing obsolete, as you also wear clothes because of modesty, self expression and utility purposes. If you're running around naked, where are you going to keep your keys? Let alone trying to ride (ouch).

It was mostly the "not evil" bit he kept insisting on that I didn't agree with. Mind you, if you do it right, you CAN get a non-evil version of the Tippyverse (you permit competition to exist, and charge a small amount for all services from the get-go, then hire everyone who needs hiring for make-work that doesn't appear to be make-work)... but that wasn't in Emperor Tippy's version of it.
{Scrubbed}. Somehow he considered making an unstoppable shadowsteel golem army to be "not threatening anyone." Since he "wasn't threatening anyone" there would be no reason to spy on his kingdom (since he wasn't Evil). And since all of his research areas were protected from Legend Lore he was automatically immune from being spied on so nobody should be allowed to have created countermeasures. It just shows how the BBEG always has that one glaring flaw that's obvious to everyone else.

Chronos
2009-04-22, 08:31 PM
It should also be noted that the Tippyverse isn't ruled by wizards, it's ruled by a wizard, singular. If you take the idea to its logical conclusion, there can be only one wizard in the entire world, because he's going to view any other wizards as potential competition/usurpers, use divination spells to find out who and where they are long before they can become threats, and teleport in and Mindrape them all into apprentice bakers. In fact, the first wizard to ever reach the Tippy level of power is going to do that as his first priority, before implementing the shadesteel armies or the Create Food traps or any of the rest of it.

Jack_Simth
2009-04-23, 07:02 AM
It should also be noted that the Tippyverse isn't ruled by wizards, it's ruled by a wizard, singular. If you take the idea to its logical conclusion, there can be only one wizard in the entire world, because he's going to view any other wizards as potential competition/usurpers, use divination spells to find out who and where they are long before they can become threats, and teleport in and Mindrape them all into apprentice bakers. In fact, the first wizard to ever reach the Tippy level of power is going to do that as his first priority, before implementing the shadesteel armies or the Create Food traps or any of the rest of it.
Catch: There's multiple planes. Quite a lot of them, in fact...

Another_Poet
2009-04-23, 12:25 PM
Aren't traps immobile?

I'd always assumed there were rules about that.

No, the RAW does not say that.

Besides, it's fairly common to put traps on movable objects. Trapped chests and boxes are common. You can carry them around with you safely, but when you try to open them they go off. In some campaigns I've seen trapped suits of armour.

IM@work
2009-05-27, 01:02 AM
The evil breadbox trap:

this is a large yet simple chest containing 3 shelves with 5 compartments each (5 long ones side by side, each with a removable wooden cup on the end).

when opened, a "DING!" noise (like that of a small bell) will be heard and it will instantly create 15 400g loaves of bread and fill the 15 cups with water. the bread is highly nutritious and will taste sweet and freshly baked upon removal, though after an hour it will start becoming bland, and after a day it will become stale and decay. the cups contain rainwater, cold and fresh.

cost:
CLERIC
500x5x3 (7500) GP (Create food and water -> 15 loaves & drinking water on open)
40x5x3 (600) XP

WIZARD
0.5x1x2000 (1000) GP ("continuously" casts prestidigitation -> all food inside tastes like fresh bread on open)
1000/25 (40) XP

so for 8500 GP you can have an unlimited amount of delicious bread (for the first hour) and water.

Sounds like something evil Jesus would do. "I turn this loaves into BREAD DEATH TRAP!!!!"

Eloel
2009-05-27, 01:42 AM
In some campaigns I've seen trapped suits of armour.
Auto-resetting trap(s) of Cure Serious Wounds (multiple of them, like 5-6) inside the armor, along with an auto-resetting trap of True Resurrection?
Sure it would cost quite some dough, but it full-heals you even from dead condition every single round.

Yum.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-05-27, 01:49 AM
Auto-resetting trap(s) of Cure Serious Wounds (multiple of them, like 5-6) inside the armor, along with an auto-resetting trap of True Resurrection?
Sure it would cost quite some dough, but it full-heals you even from dead condition every single round.

Yum.You don't want that. First I cast Mindrape(that much cash, you're 17th level minimum, but death removed your Mindblank) that leaves you exactly as you are, but incapable of ignoring a Rez call, and convinced you are incapable of movement.

Then I dump you in lava.

TSED
2009-07-16, 03:55 AM
You don't want that. First I cast Mindrape(that much cash, you're 17th level minimum, but death removed your Mindblank) that leaves you exactly as you are, but incapable of ignoring a Rez call, and convinced you are incapable of movement.

Then I dump you in lava.

True Res, Heal, Greater Restoration, mindblank, True Seeing, Freedom of Movement, and Overland Flight.


Sure, a super powerful caster can still break you by breaking the action economy and dispells, but you're definitely not easy to take down.

Also, you can actually find the caster.

Also, twelve million casters will form a superparty just to take you down because you might actually be able to beat a wizard to death, and that insult just CANNOT be tolerated.


Also you're epic level to afford that. And still wielding a non-masterwork sword for the rest of the level.

hewhosaysfish
2009-07-16, 08:02 AM
It should also be noted that the Tippyverse isn't ruled by wizards, it's ruled by a wizard, singular. If you take the idea to its logical conclusion, there can be only one wizard in the entire world, because he's going to view any other wizards as potential competition/usurpers, use divination spells to find out who and where they are long before they can become threats, and teleport in and Mindrape them all into apprentice bakers. In fact, the first wizard to ever reach the Tippy level of power is going to do that as his first priority, before implementing the shadesteel armies or the Create Food traps or any of the rest of it.

Actually, I believe he didn't Mind-Rape them into apprentice bakers: he Mind-Raped them into apprentice wizards who were completely and unquestioningly loyal to him. They were the ones invisibily teleporting around his entirely non-threatening legions of shadesteel golems.

shadow_archmagi
2009-07-16, 08:51 AM
So, the Tippyverse is sort of like Reverse Shadowrun (with magical beings developing technology/paranoid secret militaries etc)

oxybe
2009-07-16, 09:08 AM
Sounds like something evil Jesus would do. "I turn this loaves into BREAD DEATH TRAP!!!!"

heh. this reminds me of one "monsterous" game we played a while back

while the exact composition of the party isn't important, it should be noted that our party had a wight. now we were doing a job for an important patron and we secretly entered a house and found... the pantry. the food inside seemed to be possessed & alive, as the bread, preserves, ect... all seemed to glare at us with inhuman eyes.

the wight decides to try this bread and tell us how it tastes, since he's undead he wouldn't be affected by poison. tasting the bread reminded him he's undead and has no taste buds so it was point moot.

but the idea was placed and laughs were had by all since the GM ruled that the wight's bite gave the "living" bread negative levels and it became... "wight bread". :smallamused:

the story doesn't end there though. what kind of story would it be otherwise?

now, the "wight bread" was quite undead, so basically pretty moldy. what we did was use cleric to purify it and feed it unsuspecting people... chaos ensued as random peasants started dying due to trying to ingest the bread and a sudden wight epidemic arose.

Random832
2009-07-16, 09:10 AM
it became... "wight bread". :smallamused:

:smallconfused: :smallyuk: :smallsigh:

Roland St. Jude
2009-07-16, 09:10 AM
Sheriff of Moddingham: Holy external baggage batman! Please don't drag baggage from thread to thread, particularly when the subject of your scorn isn't even present. The question of the OPs been pretty much answered though, so thread locked.