PDA

View Full Version : Alpha Centauri Homebrew Thread



ArlEammon
2009-04-21, 10:16 AM
The purpose of the thread is to create a Faction in Alpha Centauri based on any non-hyper powered Science Fiction Race. List their leader psych profile, advantages and disadvantages, and goals/agendas.

For instance, this is what I think the Former Federation of Planets would look like.

Faction: The Former Federation Of Planets
Leader Profile: Jean Luc Picard
Psych Profile: Subject has a very high thresh-hold for pain, but he is specifically psychologically durable. Subject has passed some tests reserved for normally more intelligent test subjects. He is suspected to be more intelligent than he is allowing us to know. He has one of the highest competence test scores in the area of leadership and charisma.

Advantages: Industrialization should be highly convenient due to replicators.(+3 Industry without a penalty to Planet.) The player can toggle the three free points between +1/3 Wealth and +1/3 Industry.

Disadvantages: Highly restricted in actions that are important for survival on Planet.(cannot commit actrocities.)

Goals/Agendas: The Former Federation of Planets seek to end the squabbling on Chiron in order to save the races and humans of Chiron and to look for their home on Earth.

Notes: In order to return to their Earth, they would need to get the Ascension ending.

Winterwind
2009-04-21, 10:37 AM
+3 Wealth or Industry? And no meaningful disadvantages? :smalleek:

I'm going to assume balance is not something you care for within the context of this thread? Because this is stronger than the default factions by ridiculous amounts.

ArlEammon
2009-04-21, 11:01 AM
They don't have advantages worth points. I got the impression that survival was so hard on Chiron that they had to commit atrocities to survive their. The rediculous advantages are there for a reason.

Winterwind
2009-04-21, 11:35 AM
I pretty much never commit any atrocities when playing the game - for me, it wouldn't even be a disadvantage, as I wouldn't ever notice its effects. There are little reasons to commit any, if one has decent enough economy and terraforming - one doesn't need nervestapling when one can simply devote part of the energy to psi, or improve the base fields enough to be able to live with a few workers turned to medics/empaths/transcendents, planet bombs waste bases one could just as well conquer intact and nerve gas is but one optional ability, I find other ones better. And starting a plague in an enemy base is not constructive, either, if one wants to conquer it.

So, no, that thing with the atrocities is no meaningful advantage at all.

Now, Morgan has Economy +1. This +1 means they get the important Economy +2 breakpoint as soon as they have either Free Market economy or Wealth, giving them one more energy per field. They pay for this fairly extreme advantage with requiring a moderately high tech building to ever grow beyond base size 4 and have Support -1 additionally, and they still come out as one of the better standard factions. Just because of this Economy +1. The Federation you designed here would have more than that right from the start (most importantly: Would be beyond the Economy +2 threshold right from the start!), without even needing to research anything - their start would be so ridiculously much faster, they would devastate everything in their path simply on account of outresearching them by centuries and being able to buy anything they ever wanted. And they have no severe disadvantage like the Morganites' stunted growth.

Now, if you want to properly represent the immense advantage the much, much more advanced and powerful Federation would have in-game in comparison to the primitive and struggling colonist factions, I'd say this is a fairly good approximation. If it is, however, meant to be actually played, then I have to say they are stronger than the default factions - and not just by a little. Not by a large amount, either. They are better by an incredibly massive, immense, huge, gargantuan, enormous, monstrously large amount. :smallwink:

ArlEammon
2009-04-21, 12:26 PM
How about this?
Advantages: Industrialization should be highly convenient due to replicators.(+3 Industry without a penalty to Planet.) The player can toggle the three free points between +1/3 Wealth and +1/3 Industry. Each advantage cannot be beyond 2 points.

Disadvantages: -1 growth

Goals/Agendas: The Former Federation of Planets seek to end the squabbling on Chiron in order to save the races and humans of Chiron and to look for their home on Earth.

Surrealistik
2009-04-21, 12:34 PM
Still incredibly overpowered. Keep in mind that all factions generally start at the same tech level; the bonuses should be more about the Federation's ideology, and less about their tech. I see it being somewhat similar to Pravin Lal's faction from that vantage.

ArlEammon
2009-04-21, 12:49 PM
Goals/Agendas: The Former Federation of Planets seek to end the squabbling on Chiron in order to save the races and humans of Chiron and to look for their home on Earth.

Now, here's how I feel what the Federation will look like on Chiron overpowered or not... (I'm still trying to make it balanced though.)

How about +1 growth, +1 research....?
Disadvantage -25% Psi attack/defense
Starting Buildings - Recycling Tanks

This would make them strong against factions except the Cult and Gaians.

Winterwind
2009-04-21, 12:54 PM
Imagine you were the leader of one of the other factions. Say, University. And now I come to you with this race and tell you "Hey, pal, nice to meet you! Good for you that you have that research bonus, it means we research only twice as fast as you (as opposed to something between twice and thrice, as is the case with the other factions)! Of course, we also have about twice or thrice as much energy income every round as you... but that's fine, because we need 11 rounds to get a new population unit, rather than 10!"
Tell me... how would you feel? :smallwink:

Shortly, Economy +2 alone is practically impossible to balance. If I had to balance a faction with Economy +2, I think I'd start with something like "Industry-2, Morale-2, Growth-2, bonus drone every 4 pop", and pray it was enough.

Of course, Industry +3 is pretty game-breaking, too. The Hive lives off a fast super expansive strategy that works largely due to its industry bonus - of one. With three, they could be all over the place and build up an incredible army. Though the Economy-setting would be preferable most of the time.

There is a very good reason why most of the factions have mere +1/-1 modifiers - those things have a massive impact, just observe how diverse the default factions in Alpha Centauri are and how differently they play, in spite of such (seemingly) small numerical differences. And note that positive modifiers usually seem to have a larger impact than negative ones.

EDIT: Yeah, this new one looks pretty good. In fact, I think they could even use some additional bonus, maybe a free building or so - reduced psi-defence will hurt against the Planet itself. :smallsmile:

Mando Knight
2009-04-21, 02:05 PM
I am proposing a more sensible name to the thread, which describes the thread's purpose. See the reply's title.

Another faction:

Holy Britannian Empire
+1 Police: Strict control of subjugated areas
+1 Morale: Experienced, effective combatants
-1 Planet: Little regard for Chiron beyond what can be taken from it
Extra drone for every 4 population: Areas likely to chafe and revolt under strict Britannian rule.

Prefers the Power social goal, cannot use Democratic government.

Triaxx
2009-04-21, 02:26 PM
Want that large of an Economy boost? +3 Econ, -6 Morale. You might be able to buy anything, but you have to spend a LOT of money to keep down riots.

Faction: UCS
Leader Profile: Lord Admiral Johnathon Darson
Psych Profile: A career admiral and devoted follower of Peace through superior firepower, Admiral Darson is occasionally aggressive, but always keeps a kind eye on his people.

Advantages: +1 Growth, +1 Research, Free Tech: Doctrine: Mobility

Disadvantages: -1 Economy, -1 Support, May not build Children's Creche, May not achieve Ascension Victory.

Goals/Agendas: UCS seeks to crush all opposing military might, and bring all factions under it's own umbrella.

Mando Knight
2009-04-21, 04:12 PM
Want that large of an Economy boost? +3 Econ, -6 Morale. You might be able to buy anything, but you have to spend a LOT of money to keep down riots.

Morale doesn't affect riots, just the starting skill of your units. To incite riots, kill the POLICE rating.

Winterwind
2009-04-22, 08:27 AM
Morale doesn't affect riots, just the starting skill of your units. To incite riots, kill the POLICE rating.And even that doesn't suffice - it merely makes them somewhat more unhappy if you go to war. Free Market economy has -5 POLICE, -3 PLANET (and all of that for +1 ECONOMY - that tells you just how important ECONOMY is in comparison to the rest!). No, if you really want to balance +3 ECONOMY with more riots, do it via "An additional drone every X population units". Where X should be a fairly low number. I'd suggest about 3.

Surrealistik
2009-04-22, 10:19 AM
And even that doesn't suffice - it merely makes them somewhat more unhappy if you go to war. Free Market economy has -5 POLICE, -3 PLANET (and all of that for +1 ECONOMY - that tells you just how important ECONOMY is in comparison to the rest!). No, if you really want to balance +3 ECONOMY with more riots, do it via "An additional drone every X population units". Where X should be a fairly low number. I'd suggest about 3.

+2 Economy actually. Honestly, I've got to say that they overcompensated for it; when your empire begins to sprawl the +2 Efficiency bonus from Green economics becomes even more important to your economy than +2 Econ. Free Market should have enjoyed an Efficiency bonus itself (+1 or 2) even at the cost of additional penalties (Morale/Planet). Not only does it make sense, but it would maintain its intended superiority as the best energy generator of all the economic models.

Mando Knight
2009-04-22, 10:30 AM
+2 Economy actually. Honestly, I've got to say that they overcompensated for it; when your empire begins to sprawl the +2 Efficiency bonus from Green economics becomes even more important to your economy than +2 Econ. Free Market should have enjoyed an Efficiency bonus itself (+1 or 2) even at the cost of additional penalties (Morale/Planet). Not only does it make sense, but it would maintain its intended superiority as the best energy generator of all the economic models.

True. I almost never use Free Market in AC, simply because of its Police/Planet penalties combined with the Efficiency bonus of Green. Even though IRL I would take Free Market over Green. And would never join the Gaians. But then again, Earth doesn't try to kill me with swarms of 10 cm Eldritch Abominations (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EldritchAbomination) when I don't treat it like a goddess.

Winterwind
2009-04-22, 10:54 AM
+2 Economy actually. Honestly, I've got to say that they overcompensated for it; when your empire begins to sprawl the +2 Efficiency bonus from Green economics becomes even more important to your economy than +2 Econ. Free Market should have enjoyed an Efficiency bonus itself (+1 or 2) even at the cost of additional penalties (Morale/Planet). Not only does it make sense, but it would maintain its intended superiority as the best energy generator of all the economic models.+2 Economy? Well, damn, I thought my memory was better than that. :smallredface:

I wouldn't say they exactly overcompensated though - early on, Free Market is indeed a much better energy generator than Green. Only once your empire really spreads it starts to get less effective - which sort of makes sense, fluff-wise, considering mankind slowly comes to understand the real importance of living together with the Planet and starts to reform its society according to that. It's not like it's not possible to change the economic model whenever one wants to, after all. :smallwink:

Selrahc
2009-04-22, 11:18 AM
+2 Economy actually. Honestly, I've got to say that they overcompensated for it; when your empire begins to sprawl the +2 Efficiency bonus from Green economics becomes even more important to your economy than +2 Econ.

Who needs sprawl?

http://www.dos486.com/misc/morgan.jpg

I got that from a thread where the guy explained that not only do you not need to expand to cover a lot of area, but insanely intense city production is actually preferable.

http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3285&page=1

KIDS
2009-04-22, 11:37 AM
I'll tackle some of the Hyperion/Endymion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperion_(novel)) (Hyperion Cantos by Dan Simmons, I recommend it for a great read) factions (assume that a shuttle, pod or biosphere of theirs crashed on Chiron).

Pax Government
A galactic theocracy devoted to Christianity and ruled by His Holiness, Pope Julius XVI.
Goals/Agendas: Convert the inhabitants of the planet to one true faith and establish law and order that follows His Holiness's decrees.

Advantages:
+2 Morale: A well organized society with 'immortal' citizens willing to wage war in the name of faith.
+2 Research: Due to its pact with the TechnoCore, the Pax Government boasts superior technology.

-2 Drones at each base, +2 Drones at each newly conquered base: One dominant faith lessens odds of discontent, but increases them in conquered nations.
Rioting enemy bases that choose to desert their own faction have increased chance to choose to join Pax Government than usual: power of conversion, propaganda and the allure of cruciform.
Taking over a Pax base with Mind Control Probe costs double the usual cost: faithful citizens are hard to convert, but their networks are as vulnerable as any other faction's.

Disadvantages:
-2 Planet: No respect for other sentient or non-sentient lifeforms, provoking backlash from the planet.
-2 Growth: The existence of Cruciform which provides the Gift of Resurrection to the faithful also imposes heavy population limits.

Starting techs: Applied Physics, Social Psych
Favored politics: Thought Control Future Society
Allergic to: Green Economy

This is a Christian faction with less of a fanatic bent than Sister Miriam, and vastly different gameplay. I'd imagine it plays more like Zakharov, being great in peaceful times and defense, while going to war only when it has the upper hand.
The penalty to planet is not as severe as the benefits of bonuses are, which I think is fair since -2 Growth is a massive penalty and prevents any hope of population booms. However, an early start with a scout patrol with powerful morale can provide it with an offensive option, much like the Spartans.

Ousters
A faction of outcasts from humanity who used genetic engineering to adapt their forms to space and unhospitable planets. They are seen as abominations and enemies by the "civilized" universe.
Goals/Agendas: Make real the dream of a green planet and green universe filled with life and spread the idea of peaceful adaptation to all other beings.

Advantages:
+1 Growth: Once adapted to their enviroments, Ousters are capable of rapid expansion, helped by their birthing chambers and social structure.
+2 Planet: Ecological harmony.
+2 Probe: Ousters have no networks to hack into or convetional social structure to infiltrate, but existence of sympathetic "green" factions in almost every other society allows them to avoid those limits.

Has a 100% chance to capture the first Mind Worm encountered by the faction.
Can build solar collectors, farms, forests and tidal harnesses in half the time (stacks with Weather Paradigm): Organic technology

Disadvantages:
-1 Support: Pacifists. Expansion depends on the will of the planet instead of logistics.
-2 Economy: Litle faith placed on material values.
Factions that do not have green economy as favored start one step more hostile with the Ousters.

Starting techs: Centaury Ecology, Biogenetics
Favored politics: Green Economy
Allergic to: Fundamentalist Politics

Playing in a different way from Gaians and the Cult of Planet, this faction is likely to be bullied by others at a start. Its offensive capabilities are limited due to weak economy and support, but once it expands it is capable of overwhelming an enemy with sheer numbers. Its terraforming boost represents the ability of Ousters to thrive in almost any enviroment.

Mando Knight
2009-04-22, 12:01 PM
"I must play this game by my rules
I will conquer the world with my tools
All my machines are made for destruction
I will build my empire
I will succeed, and you will see
With my machines... there is no retreat!"

-Dr. Eggman, E.G.G.M.A.N.

EggmanLand!
Leader: Dr. Eggman
Tech: Industrial Base
Cannot use Green economics
-3 Planet: Uses resources solely for his power gain
+1 Growth: Mechanical beings are easy to reproduce
+1 Police: Regular maintenance and memory wipes prevent most rebellions
+1 Industry: Advanced manufacturing systems
Immunity to Efficiency loss: Machines already depend on Eggman's full control.

Agenda: Reform Planet into his own EggmanLand. This time, he doesn't have that pesky hedgehog to worry about.

chiasaur11
2009-04-22, 12:09 PM
True. I almost never use Free Market in AC, simply because of its Police/Planet penalties combined with the Efficiency bonus of Green. Even though IRL I would take Free Market over Green. And would never join the Gaians. But then again, Earth doesn't try to kill me with swarms of 10 cm Eldritch Abominations (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EldritchAbomination) when I don't treat it like a goddess.

You know, that only makes me want a non green economy more. The planet wants a war, fine. I'm more than happy to put it back in its place.

Surrealistik
2009-04-22, 02:33 PM
Who needs sprawl?

http://www.dos486.com/misc/morgan.jpg

I got that from a thread where the guy explained that not only do you not need to expand to cover a lot of area, but insanely intense city production is actually preferable.

http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3285&page=1

My definition of sprawl mainly relates to # of colonies, not the territorial size of your empire. That strategy is called urban sprawl, and yes, it is highly effective, and one of the major reasons Free Market penalties may be considered overcompensation.



I wouldn't say they exactly overcompensated though - early on, Free Market is indeed a much better energy generator than Green. Only once your empire really spreads it starts to get less effective - which sort of makes sense, fluff-wise, considering mankind slowly comes to understand the real importance of living together with the Planet and starts to reform its society according to that. It's not like it's not possible to change the economic model whenever one wants to, after all.

Sprawl inefficiency is proportionate to colony quantity rather than territorial boundaries. It is rather easy to quickly reach a point where the Free Market is eclipsed by Green due to the highly effective urban sprawl strategy mentioned above. Further, an Efficiency bonus to Free Market makes sense; it is easily one of the most efficient if not the most efficient economic model we currently know of. The Free Market can be thought of as Machiavellian in its pursuit of wealth; it will inevitably select the most efficient and productive methods within government prescribed boundaries regardless of most other considerations. Personally, I feel the Free Market paradigm should enjoy an additional +2 to its Efficiency at the cost of 2 Morale or Support.

I will say though that Planned economics may prove superior (in reality if not in SMAC) as computing becomes sufficiently advanced, and thus eliminates the inefficiency traditionally involved with centralized economic management.

KIDS
2009-04-22, 06:20 PM
I'm all for organized base formations and such, but this sprawl is maddening. I can't imagine that actually working in any game with any amount of agressive neighbors. Putting out hundreds of colony pods would slow you down so much that you would actually hurt your growth (as base with creche + support so it can build formers from start + ... etc.) produces more growth than the one that just spams colony pods.

Yes, it's Morgan and his population limits which encourages more bases, that's good. But most of these bases can't even allocate all 4 or 7 of their workers. 2 or 3 spaces between would have been perfectly sufficient for tightly packed bases. This way, the whole field is sharply limited without satellites, and they don't come until mid-game when any nearby enemy would have interrupted this fast. Maybe as a theorethical exercise or if you have your own island and you know no one will interrupt you for next 100 years...

Mando Knight
2009-04-22, 06:41 PM
Idea...

How about the most totally broken faction we can imagine? :smalltongue:

The Playground
Starting Techs: Biogenetics, Social Psych. (i.e. Secrets of the Human Brain as its first research tech)
+5 Economy
+5 Industry ('cause bonuses to these are really hard to come by)
Bonus Talent every 2 population. (Drones never get in high enough numbers to riot? Yes, please!)

Winterwind
2009-04-22, 06:43 PM
Sprawl inefficiency is proportionate to colony quantity rather than territorial boundaries. It is rather easy to quickly reach a point where the Free Market is eclipsed by Green due to the highly effective urban sprawl strategy mentioned above. Further, an Efficiency bonus to Free Market makes sense; it is easily one of the most efficient if not the most efficient economic model we currently know of. The Free Market can be thought of as Machiavellian in its pursuit of wealth; it will inevitably select the most efficient and productive methods within government prescribed boundaries regardless of most other considerations. Personally, I feel the Free Market paradigm should enjoy an additional +2 to its Efficiency at the cost of 2 Morale or Support.Huh, I didn't know urban sprawl worked in SMAC, too, I thought it was a Civ-only thing (rather, I'd heard only Hive tended to play this way).
This said, in my games I always had the impression Free Market economy stayed superior to Green with regards to income and research for quite long actually. Though you seem to be a good deal more experienced with this game than I am, so I guess I'll have to take your word for that. Plus, I usually play with random science, and I would assume this would make it take much longer to get the technologies needed for Green economy to surpass Free Market.

ArlEammon
2009-04-22, 06:48 PM
SpaceBattles Faction
Automatically start with mining stations
+2 growth
+1 Morale
+1 Police
-2 Research
-1 1 Planet

May not take Eudamaia.

Goals: Planetary mind control

Surrealistik
2009-04-22, 07:06 PM
I'm all for organized base formations and such, but this sprawl is maddening. I can't imagine that actually working in any game with any amount of agressive neighbors. Putting out hundreds of colony pods would slow you down so much that you would actually hurt your growth (as base with creche + support so it can build formers from start + ... etc.) produces more growth than the one that just spams colony pods.

Yes, it's Morgan and his population limits which encourages more bases, that's good. But most of these bases can't even allocate all 4 or 7 of their workers. 2 or 3 spaces between would have been perfectly sufficient for tightly packed bases. This way, the whole field is sharply limited without satellites, and they don't come until mid-game when any nearby enemy would have interrupted this fast. Maybe as a theorethical exercise or if you have your own island and you know no one will interrupt you for next 100 years...

Obviously if you've got an imminent threat, you adapt your production and economy to account for war. When Urban Sprawl is well managed, rarely will you be caught with your pants down such that you can't reorient your industry to deal with it. Further, innate colony bonuses, Supply Crawlers (early game), satellites (mid-late) and specialists (early-mid) all cement its viability despite a relative lack of workable squares.



Huh, I didn't know urban sprawl worked in SMAC, too, I thought it was a Civ-only thing (rather, I'd heard only Hive tended to play this way).
This said, in my games I always had the impression Free Market economy stayed superior to Green with regards to income and research for quite long actually. Though you seem to be a good deal more experienced with this game than I am, so I guess I'll have to take your word for that. Plus, I usually play with random science, and I would assume this would make it take much longer to get the technologies needed for Green economy to surpass Free Market.

To be sure, Free Market has utility, but it is fairly short lived. Either way, it has a definite expiry date, and I feel the model should have the same longevity as the others.


The Playground
Starting Techs: Biogenetics, Social Psych. (i.e. Secrets of the Human Brain as its first research tech)
+5 Economy
+5 Industry ('cause bonuses to these are really hard to come by)
Bonus Talent every 2 population. (Drones never get in high enough numbers to riot? Yes, please!)

Lol, you forgot to give it some comically irrelevant penalty like the Cybernetic Consciousness 'suffers' from. -1 Morale?

ArlEammon
2009-04-22, 07:11 PM
Eagle Land
+100 Psi Offense/Defense
+1 Psych

No disadvantages.

(Its Eagleland from Earthbound)

Ethdred
2009-04-23, 09:01 AM
Who needs sprawl?

[SIlly Picture]



I like that idea a lot, and can see how it works, but don't understand why he's got all those supply crawlers working sqaures within base radius.

Surrealistik
2009-04-23, 11:14 AM
I like that idea a lot, and can see how it works, but don't understand why he's got all those supply crawlers working sqaures within base radius.

The answer is specialists.

chiasaur11
2009-04-23, 01:27 PM
Eagle Land
+100 Psi Offense/Defense
+1 Psych

No disadvantages.

(Its Eagleland from Earthbound)

No disadvantages?

What do you call the dirty hippy menace then?

Surrealistik
2009-04-23, 01:58 PM
Two revisions I've made to what I find to be societal paradigms of limited use:

Power (New): +2 Morale, +2 Support, +1 Industry, -2 Economy

Power (Old): +2 Morale, +2 Support, -2 Industry

Rationale (Fluff): The old power model makes little sense from this vantage. War orientated societies tend to favour industrial efficiency and output at the cost of the civilian economics and wealth generation.

Rationale (Gameplay): The old Power model makes even less sense from a gameplay perspective. A decent Industry is required to mount a viable military threat, which makes this often a counterproductive choice when recalibrating your faction for war. As is, even Wealth can be viably argued a superior value choice for conflict given the 3 Industry spread between the two models.

Free Market (New): +2 Economy, +2 Efficiency, -2 Morale, -3 Planet, -5 Police

Free Market (Old): +2 Economy, -3 Planet, -5 Police

Rationale (Fluff): Free Market economics are primarily concerned with optimal, efficient creation of wealth, and like the Wealth value system, engender a society disdainful of costly and wasteful warfare.

Rationale (Gameplay): As mentioned in earlier posts of mine, Free Market economics are overcompensated for and insensibly superseded given the marked efficiency driven superiority of Green economics in the mid to late game.

Mando Knight
2009-04-23, 03:12 PM
What do you call the dirty hippy menace then?

Gaia's Stepdaughters.

Ganurath
2009-04-23, 03:57 PM
Imperium of Man

+2 Growth
+2 Support
-2 Research
+25% bonus to psionic defense

Chaos Cults

+2 Morale
-1 Efficiency
-2 Planet
+50% bonus to psionic attack

Ethdred
2009-04-26, 04:58 AM
The answer is specialists.

Oh geez! I've just realised the full horror of the implications of that strategy. I am obviously not twisted enough to play this game...

Philistine
2009-04-26, 10:03 AM
Rationale (Gameplay): As mentioned in earlier posts of mine, Free Market economics are overcompensated for and insensibly superseded given the marked efficiency driven superiority of Green economics in the mid to late game.

I have come to suspect that the obsoleting of Free Market economics after the early game was a deliberate choice on the part of the game's designers, reflecting a belief on their part that a Green economic model really is that much more efficient than any other. See also the efficiency boost given to the Gaians.

Surrealistik
2009-04-26, 10:20 AM
I have come to suspect that the obsoleting of Free Market economics after the early game was a deliberate choice on the part of the game's designers, reflecting a belief on their part that a Green economic model really is that much more efficient than any other. See also the efficiency boost given to the Gaians.

Oh definitely. I disagree with their assessment though; Free Market economics are indisputably efficient as a consequence of focus on optimal wealth creation, whereas Green economics are efficient as a consequence of environmentally conscious recycling. True Free Markets may be grossly inegalitarian and unsustainable, but I feel that's sufficiently reflected in the environmental and police penalties.

I do not understand at all the rationalization for the weakness of the Power values system; history has shown militarized societies consistently favour and emphasize industry at the expense of general economic development.

Selrahc
2009-04-26, 10:32 AM
Oh definitely. I disagree with their assessment though; Free Market economics are efficient as a consequence of optimal wealth creation, whereas Green economics are efficient as a consequence of environmentally conscious recycling.

I think it's true to say that Free Market economies eventually become highly efficient in wealth creation... but they take a bit of time to do so.

If it was possible I'd say that the best way to model it would be to have a steadily increasing efficiency rating, as the market works on easing out the kinks. Changing every 5 turns, starting with a -1 penalty and eventually working up to a +3 bonus after 25 turns.

That makes switching out of it a very bad thing though. And odds are you're going to be forced out of it if circumstances go awry, as free market is pretty rubbish in war. It would be of most value to those who are dedicated to long term peaceful gameplay.

Surrealistik
2009-04-26, 10:45 AM
I think it's true to say that Free Market economies eventually become highly efficient in wealth creation... but they take a bit of time to do so.

If it was possible I'd say that the best way to model it would be to have a steadily increasing efficiency rating, as the market works on easing out the kinks. Changing every 5 turns, starting with a -1 penalty and eventually working up to a +3 bonus after 25 turns.

That makes switching out of it a very bad thing though. And odds are you're going to be forced out of it if circumstances go awry, as free market is pretty rubbish in war. It would be of most value to those who are dedicated to long term peaceful gameplay.

I think it might be better to give it the Efficiency bonus and Morale penalty I suggested, but perhaps require a greater initial investment of energy to make the transition to a Free Market economy. Turns are too valuable to squander, and flexibility is extremely important; mechanical practicality must be considered.