PDA

View Full Version : fighter/wiz/arcane archer ideas.....



sambo.
2009-04-21, 11:13 PM
PLEASE BEAR IN MIND: MY GROUP CAN ONLY USE THE SRD OR ADnD INFORMATION THAT IS FREELY AVAILABLE ON THE INTERNET. IF YOU SUGGEST SOMETHING FROM ANY NON-CORE BOOKS, PLEASE PROVIDE A LINK TO WHERE THE INFO CAN BE ACCESSED!!11!!
- - - -

yo. i've played a LOT of 1st ed ADnD, a fair bit of 2nd and just a mere smattering of 3/3.5ed. and, i;m after some insights/ideas on how to progress the character.

I'm the Drow fighter/wizard mentioned in DragoonWraith's Sorcerer thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108468).

Currently level one fighter: here is the character sheet. (http://thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=21428)

i'm aiming for Arcane Archer PrC. my DM has modified the class a little to make it (hopefully) less sucky (only need +4 BAB and i get partial caster level progression, one extra CL every odd numbered AA level).

here's the current plan:

lvl2: take a level of Wizard
lvl3, 4, 5: fighter
lvl6: buy off one level of my +2 Level Adjustment for being a Drow, then go Arcane Archer all the way.

feats: already have wep-focus (shortbow) and wep finesse. will get Point Blank and Precise Shot feats @ CL3 then take Rapidshot @ CL5 (fighter lvl 4)

my DM has allowed me to use the Craft: Alchemy skill to brew up Drow Knockout poison with the craft DC equal to the DC of the finished poison (just cooked up some DC20 sleepyjuice)

one thing i'd really like to know is: is it possible to increase the damage die of a weapon? i'm going with Shortbow (d4/d6 damage) is it possible to increase the damage to, say, d6/d8 or even better?

so, now you know the basics, and bearing in mind i get no Constitution bonus for hitpoints (eg: me very squishy), anyone got any ideas/tips/tricks they'd like to share?

Bluebeard
2009-04-21, 11:35 PM
HP scale way faster in 3.5 than they did in older editions. Don't sweat increasing dice sizes (for which you could just use Enlarge person or switch to a Longbow in place of a Shortbow). Look for other bonuses you can tack on.

Weapon and arrow enhancements are usually the damage source for archers. Don't boost the numeric enhancement on either past +1 (your class abilities and the Greater Magic Weapon spell will do that), but tack on as many Wounding/Thundering/whatever-sorts of enhancements as you can. Different enhancements from bows and arrows stack.

You're probably going to want to boost your area spell effects. Spell Focus and Greater Spell focus aren't bad choices. Conjuration is the school most focused in area effects. Think about specializing in it. Necromancy and Enchantment hurt the least to drop with a class focused on area effects. (Evocation also has a good number of area spells but most do direct damage, which isn't as hot in 3rd edition as it was back when a d6/CL was a significant amount of HP.)

Somebody probably already ninja-ed me to tell you how crummy Arcane Archer is.
I'll trust your group and your DM to play reasonably. Game imbalance can be exagerrated endlessly on the internet.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-04-21, 11:38 PM
AA is terribad. A Fighter 1(or Otherworldly Wizard)/Wizard 5/Eldrich Knight 10 does a whole lot better. The one thing AA gets that's worthwhile is Imbue Arrow on level 2. The enhancement bonus for arrows is no better than GMW, and the rest of the abilities are too situational to be useful.

Also, I'd snag a Lesser Drow from one of the Web enhancements so you don't have to deal with LA at all, and just use that.

DragoonWraith
2009-04-21, 11:52 PM
The comment about GMW is a very good point - I'd already planned on getting it (though if you are I probably won't). I'd very much consider asking Ernir to waive the "enhancement" name of the bonus from Enhance Arrow, so you can stack GMW and Enhance Arrow. That, I think, very quickly turns a crappy ability into a good one. Or at least a much better one.

Other than that, Arrow of Death's DC seems perhaps low-ish. Considering how much you have to put into the arrow, the very real risk of failure is a problem. Of course, guaranteed death is never good either. I'd suggest that you ask Ernir to diminish the crafting time and/or increase the number you can have at once.

Harperfan7
2009-04-22, 12:02 AM
You could easily make drow knockout poison with craft (poison)...

Is there any reason you aren't using a longbow? Being underground in small tunnels or something?

Squishy-ness: Get used to it. Prepare illusion, transmutation, and abjuration spells for defense and avoidance, keep your distance - you don't have any precision damage effects so you don't need to stay close, use those transmutation spells to keep that distance, ...that's all I have.

Chronos
2009-04-22, 12:35 AM
Ranger is a better entry than Fighter for Arcane Archer, or possibly a mix of two levels of each. Pick the archery combat style, of course, and you get a feat you'd probably want anyway: A fighter 2/ranger 2 has the same number of useful feats as a fighter 4. You also get a lot more skill points, and great skills like Hide, Move Silently, Listen, and Spot to spend them on. Plus if you go at least 4 levels of ranger, you get some spells, which you can also put into your Imbued Arrows (Entangle, for instance). And even if you don't actually take enough ranger levels to cast ranger spells, even a single level still qualifies you to use wands of those spells, like Cure Light Wounds.

Eldariel
2009-04-22, 08:57 AM
First, you may be interested in Guide to Free D&D (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1109.0). It's a compendium of all D&D 3.X material released by Wizards legally, for free, online. Not too much use for you unless you're interested in Swiftblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327), but your group will probably appreciate it.

Anyways, as an Arcane Archer, you'll need to maximize your Wizard-casting. That much is obvious - Imbue Arrow is the best ability of the class. This means you should take maximum amount of Wizard-levels to enter (Fighter 1/Wizard 6 is solid, for example). If you're into fixing Arcane Archer (as opposed to using one of the many fixed Arcane Archers online), you may as fix the rest of their class features. Quick list:

-Enhance Arrow: Like suggested, this either needs to stack with your weapon enhancements, or grant enhancements other than +X.

-Imbue Arrow: This is fine, although expanding this to cover single-target spells (á la Smiting Spell) could be reasonable.

-Seeker Arrow: An interesting ability, but this should not be a Standard Action. Also, you need more than 1 use per day. ½ class level or 3+Casting Stat or whatever. Just...more than 1/day.

-Phasing Arrow: Same applies here as with Seeker Arrow. It's a separate Standard Action cutting much of the utility, and it needs more than 1 use per day.

-Hail of Arrows: Otherwise fine, but more than once per day!

-Arrow of Death: This desperately needs some stat added to the DC. Like your casting stat. DC should be 10+Arcane Archer level+Casting Stat, not 10+Arcane Archer level. Practically nothing on level 15 ever fails DC 20 Fort-save except on natural 1. Wizard can throw around a dozen DC 26-27 Fortitude save or dies. You get one DC 20 that needs an attack roll...

sambo.
2009-04-28, 08:07 AM
Ranger is a better entry than Fighter for Arcane Archer, or possibly a mix of two levels of each. Pick the archery combat style, of course, and you get a feat you'd probably want anyway: A fighter 2/ranger 2 has the same number of useful feats as a fighteer 4.
hmm....

i might talk to my DM about this....

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-04-28, 09:15 AM
Crystalkeep (http://crystalkeep.com/d20/) is a great source for races, class variants, feats, spells, magic items, and maybe prestige classes.

Starting out Fighter 4/ Wizard 1 isn't a bad choice at all, take Weapon Focus and Specialization, then pick up Ranged Weapon Mastery at level 9. Improved Rapid Shot is another good choice, and Woodland Archer is amazing. Practiced Spellcaster is also good, though with a build like this you would be better off taking five levels of Abjurant Champion, though I don't know if you can find the full version online anywhere. You should also take a look at the Armored Mage (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20061010a&page=1) variant for Fighter. If you're not going to specialize in a school, you should take the Elf Wizard 1 racial substitution level, found at Crystalkeep.

See if your DM will let AA's Enhance Arrow stack with a bow's Enhancement bonus, it worked in 3.0 and the class was at least usable, but in 3.5 anyone with Greater Magic Weapon is better off not taking AA past the 2nd level. If not, just get a +1 Defending bow, get GMW cast on it, then convert its enhancement bonus to AC and you'll still get the bonus from Enhance Arrow to your attacks. Making AA grant spellcasting on half the levels definitely makes it playable for a core-only game, especially in an inexperienced group.

One of the best low-level uses of Imbue Arrow is a 2nd level spell called Fireburst, which deals 1d8 damage per caster level in a 10 ft. radius, normally centered on yourself. It can't do more than 5d8 damage, but it's a lower level spell than Fireball that will be doing at least as much damage for quite a few levels. Greater Fireburst is a 5th level version with a 15 ft. radius, it deals 1d10 per caster level up to 15d10, which will definitely be a strong choice later on. Note that the Crystalkeep versions of those spells are a bit off on their range, it hasn't been updated since the spells were reprinted. Another good trick is to use Imbue Arrow with an Antimagic Field to fire at an enemy spellcaster. They won't be able to use any magic until it goes away, which will be long after the battle is over.

DragoonWraith
2009-04-28, 01:47 PM
-Seeker Arrow: An interesting ability, but this should not be a Standard Action. Also, you need more than 1 use per day. ½ class level or 3+Casting Stat or whatever. Just...more than 1/day.

-Phasing Arrow: Same applies here as with Seeker Arrow. It's a separate Standard Action cutting much of the utility, and it needs more than 1 use per day.
Am I missing something here? Both of these take a standard action, but firing the arrow is part of that action. It's not "standard action to prepare, another standard action to shoot", at least if I'm reading the SRD right. Or is there some other problem here?

BRC
2009-04-28, 01:56 PM
You're reading is right. Not only does the description say "Launch an Arrow", but it specifically says that shooting the arrow is part of the standard action. Neither of these are the reason Arcane Archer sucks. The Reason it sucks is that it's a class the requires Caster levels to enter, but relies on both good BAB and Casting to be effective, without giving any caster advancement. You get abunch of somewhat-decent once per day abilities that don't really add up to anything. Really, the main thing it has going for it is the cool flavor.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-04-28, 02:12 PM
The problem is that the class still sucks, even with the modifications you have given it. Enhance Arrow does not stack with other enhancement bonuses, so the primary class feature is obviated by a SINGLE SPELL.

Here's what I would do, completely Core:

Fighter1/Wiz6/Arcane Archer2/Eldritch Knight10/Archmage 1

Basically, the only thing you are really wanting from AA is Imbue Arrow. Everything else is NOT WORTH IT. Go with EK which also has full BAB and 9/10 caster progression.

With my proposed build, you get:

+18 BAB
9th level spells (with your variant, you get 1 caster level from AA)
Imbue Arrow ability
Flavor of being an arcane archer, without being crippled mechanically

Strategies to use:

1) Greater Magic Weapon on your bow every day. If you can ask a Cleric with a Karmic Bead to do it, you get it faster, but you can still do it yourself. This replicates the enchant arrow class feature. Get a Pearl of Power for your 3rd level spell slot, if necessary.

2) Mirror Image is your friend. Miss chance generally is better than straight AC

How are you getting such low damage numbers on your bow? You should be doing d8 with a Longbow, or d6 with a Shortbow.

Eldariel
2009-04-28, 02:14 PM
Am I missing something here? Both of these take a standard action, but firing the arrow is part of that action. It's not "standard action to prepare, another standard action to shoot", at least if I'm reading the SRD right. Or is there some other problem here?

What? Yes, shooting the arrow is a part of the standard action. But that's what it's limited to! That means you cannot do a full attack with one of the arrows being a Phase Arrow/Seeking Arrow and you can't shoot an Imbued Phase Arrow. This makes the abilities almost useless (basically, you'll only ever use Phase Arrow if you know the location of an opponent behind a wall or something like that - let's face it, that doesn't happen a lot in D&D) and then you add in the fact that they're 1/day so when the rare situation happens where Phase Arrow is more efficient than Imbued Arrow/Full Attack, you can use it exactly once!

In other words, when all your divinations and x-ray visions and what-have-yous have finally enabled you to locate an opponent behind a wall, you can shoot one arrow at him. You can't shoot another one, you can't do a full phase attack, you can't shoot an imbued phase arrow.

The fact that you're limited to using Phase/Seeking Arrows as standard actions makes the abilities completely worthless.


BRC says the abilities are decent, but frankly, Hail of Arrows is the only other decent ability beyond Imbue Arrow, and it's limited to 1/day. The reasons listed above make Phase Arrow and Seeking Arrow worthless and GL finding an opponent who dies to your Arrow of Death.

DragoonWraith
2009-04-28, 02:15 PM
The problem is that the class still sucks, even with the modifications you have given it. Enhance Arrow does not stack with other enhancement bonuses, so the primary class feature is obviated by a SINGLE SPELL.
Which is why every single person has suggested naming the Enhance Arrow bonus something other than Enhancement so it stacks with GMW?

Not saying your suggestion is wrong, just pointing out that this problem was noted and can be alleviated.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-04-28, 02:29 PM
Which is why every single person has suggested naming the Enhance Arrow bonus something other than Enhancement so it stacks with GMW?

Not saying your suggestion is wrong, just pointing out that this problem was noted and can be alleviated.

While others have suggested it, there is no guarantee that the GM will go along with it. Thus, based on the rules currently in force, there is no point to getting more than two levels of Arcane Archer, even with 1/2 casting.

However, even if Enhance Arrow *DID* stack, it *STILL* would suck, because you loose 9th and 8th level spells at LEAST. I'd rather have a Greater Prying Eyes able to scout for me or Time Stop to be able to buff up than having a +5 to damage on my arrows. That isn't even getting into Gate or PAO cheeze. Mind Blank is another deadly useful spell that you won't be able to with full AA progresison.

It just hurts you too much to loose that many caster levels for AA to be worth bothering with for more than two levels. None of the 1/day abilities are worth bothering with, much less worth loosing that many caster levels over.

BRC
2009-04-28, 02:30 PM
By "Decent" i meant that they could actually be useful. But on their own, once a day? It's not very good. They are like Familiars. You don't play a wizard to have a familiar, but you probably don't mind it. Unfortunetly, Arcane Archer lacks any real "Hook" ability to make it good. It's abunch of wrapping without the present.


That said, I had a good deal of fun playing a Divine Archer (AA, but for divine spells instead of Arcane). Imbuning Blunt arrows with Cure spells and normal arrows with Inflicts. It wasn't optomized, but it was fun.

DragoonWraith
2009-04-28, 02:34 PM
What? Yes, shooting the arrow is a part of the standard action. But that's what it's limited to! That means you cannot do a full attack with one of the arrows being a Phase Arrow/Seeking Arrow and you can't shoot an Imbued Phase Arrow. This makes the abilities almost useless (basically, you'll only ever use Phase Arrow if you know the location of an opponent behind a wall or something like that - let's face it, that doesn't happen a lot in D&D) and then you add in the fact that they're 1/day so when the rare situation happens where Phase Arrow is more efficient than Imbued Arrow/Full Attack, you can use it exactly once!

Ah, I was missing something - I'm a newbie and have only just started playing my first character (the Sorcerer that sambo. linked to), and so I know nothing about the more detailed physical attack options.

Myrmex
2009-04-28, 03:08 PM
While others have suggested it, there is no guarantee that the GM will go along with it. Thus, based on the rules currently in force, there is no point to getting more than two levels of Arcane Archer, even with 1/2 casting.

However, even if Enhance Arrow *DID* stack, it *STILL* would suck, because you loose 9th and 8th level spells at LEAST. I'd rather have a Greater Prying Eyes able to scout for me or Time Stop to be able to buff up than having a +5 to damage on my arrows. That isn't even getting into Gate or PAO cheeze. Mind Blank is another deadly useful spell that you won't be able to with full AA progresison.

It just hurts you too much to loose that many caster levels for AA to be worth bothering with for more than two levels. None of the 1/day abilities are worth bothering with, much less worth loosing that many caster levels over.

If it doesn't have ninth level spells, don't bother playing it!

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-04-28, 03:27 PM
If it doesn't have ninth level spells, don't bother playing it!

Or rather a +5 to damage from arrows is not as powerful as casting 8th and 9th level spells.

Assuming Rapid Shot and a Full Attack, you can crank out 5 shots of damage for 1d8+10 (assuming they stack). Not bad.

Or, you can make it impossible to ambush the party with Greater Prying Eyes, then use Time Stop, lob four Delayed Blast Fireballs for 20d6 (Reflex save for half), then let time start back up and laugh as they take 80d6 damage. Use Energy Substitution for flavor change to avoid immunities.

Option 1: Does a little damage, may drop a single opponent.
Option 2: Drop anything without Evasion in its tracks. Even drop things with Evasion if you have a high enough DC on your Reflex save.

Godskook
2009-04-28, 03:55 PM
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=00e335f1b6d3a915c0205de27cc583 43&topic=1109.0

Enjoy. It's a great resource of essentially everything that is free online, and what if you like something that isn't free, it tells you where to get it.

Bluebeard
2009-04-28, 07:13 PM
If character power is an issue in your game:

In Core, my favorite Arcane Archer build is:
Rogue 1/Wizard 5/Assassin 1/Arcane Trickster 10/Archmage 3.

Use Blink and Greater Invisibility for generating Sneak Attacks.
Use Haste for extra attacks.
Sneak Attack means your arrows are actually kind of scary.
If Base Attack is a real problem, there's always Tenser's Transformation. Sure,it sucks, but it beats most routes to itinerative attacks.

This doesn't imbue arrows, but that usually only costs a relatively small amount of damage per spell.
(You can decide the appearance of your spells. Making them look like you're shooting spell effects from your bow is perfectly valid and doesn't gimp your character to high hell.)
It might be useful with Cloudkill or Antimagic Field, but becoming a one-trick pony is never a good plan. And that's all most Imbue Arrow-users are.


My follow-ups are:
Sorcerer 20, Wizard 20 and Cleric 20 (take the Magic Domain if you need to be particular). Add full-casting Prestige classes to taste.

Honorary Mentions:
Rogue 8/Ranger 2/Assassin 10 and Rogue 10/Assassin 10, rearranging class levels to taste.

MeklorIlavator
2009-04-28, 07:34 PM
The first build doesn't work. Archmage requires 7th level spells, and you stop at 3rd level.
Nevermind. I read that as Arcane Archer.S Sorry.

Eldariel
2009-04-28, 07:42 PM
The first build doesn't work. Archmage requires 7th level spells, and you stop at 3rd level.

Arcane Trickster has full casting.

Myrmex
2009-04-28, 07:46 PM
Or rather a +5 to damage from arrows is not as powerful as casting 8th and 9th level spells.

Assuming Rapid Shot and a Full Attack, you can crank out 5 shots of damage for 1d8+10 (assuming they stack). Not bad.

Or, you can make it impossible to ambush the party with Greater Prying Eyes, then use Time Stop, lob four Delayed Blast Fireballs for 20d6 (Reflex save for half), then let time start back up and laugh as they take 80d6 damage. Use Energy Substitution for flavor change to avoid immunities.

Option 1: Does a little damage, may drop a single opponent.
Option 2: Drop anything without Evasion in its tracks. Even drop things with Evasion if you have a high enough DC on your Reflex save.

I am aware that the wizard is a very big rock you are very fond of hitting things with. Maybe someone wants to play paper?

Flickerdart
2009-04-28, 07:55 PM
I am aware that the wizard is a very big rock you are very fond of hitting things with. Maybe someone wants to play paper?
Paper is a bigger rock. Nothing beats a paranoid Batman except another paranoider Batman.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-04-28, 11:56 PM
I am aware that the wizard is a very big rock you are very fond of hitting things with. Maybe someone wants to play paper?

The problem with your analogy is that Wizards do so much more than simply hit people. They literally make it impossible for a party to lose, no matter what the GM throws at them, because if they get close to a TPK the Contingency Teleport to back home goes off and saves the party.

The 'litmus test' for Gish builds is 16+ BAB and 9th level spells. That you can't even cast 7th level spells with the proposed build makes it laughable.

Myrmex
2009-04-29, 12:23 AM
The problem with your analogy is that Wizards do so much more than simply hit people.

I think you misunderstood my analogy.
Wizards pretty much don't have to think to solve a problem, ever. They just look up the solution (a spell) in one of the many splatbooks they purchased for just this purpose. Or just use the internet. Which seems to be growing in popularity in my gaming circle. I see a lot of cookie-cutter builds.


They literally make it impossible for a party to lose, no matter what the GM throws at them, because if they get close to a TPK the Contingency Teleport to back home goes off and saves the party.

And then he releases his n+1 bound, mind raped solars....
If my party ever abused contingency like that, they would be crushed in rocks.


The 'litmus test' for Gish builds is 16+ BAB and 9th level spells. That you can't even cast 7th level spells with the proposed build makes it laughable.

And the litmus test for power is pun-pun. Ok.

I'm just sayin, not getting 9th level spells is ok, as long as you are a) playing in a party where not everyone is full caster b) never going to hit 20, anyway. If you are going to be with a druid, wizard, and cleric, C&P from this board, and wanted to do something gishy, then yeah, I would say not getting 9th level spells for a couple lame-o abilities would be a crappy idea. But 7th level spells are still pretty cool, right?

tyckspoon
2009-04-29, 12:33 AM
And then he releases his n+1 bound, mind raped solars....
If my party ever abused contingency like that, they would be crushed in rocks.


You think that's abusive? That's what Contingency is for. "Oh no, something beyond our capacities happened! Save me, oh spell-I-attached-to-myself-for-exactly-this!" The most reliable way to get out of a situation is to just get out entirely. There are plenty of ways to make that have negative repercussions for a party without resorting to "You dared not stand and die in the face of my monsters! Rocks fall! You die anyway!"

Myrmex
2009-04-29, 10:26 AM
You think that's abusive? That's what Contingency is for. "Oh no, something beyond our capacities happened! Save me, oh spell-I-attached-to-myself-for-exactly-this!" The most reliable way to get out of a situation is to just get out entirely. There are plenty of ways to make that have negative repercussions for a party without resorting to "You dared not stand and die in the face of my monsters! Rocks fall! You die anyway!"

I'm not arguing with what Contingency is for. It's pretty obvious what it's for. It's also obvious what Shapechange, Polymorph, Celerity, Time Stop and Gate are for. That makes them no less of abusive spells, pretty much just for existing.

sambo.
2009-05-04, 07:28 PM
dear god. what a bunch of powergamers.

this campaign is for laughs.

it's progressing at the speed of a glacier on valium. at current rates, it would be decades before i could cast 9th level spells even if i went full wizard.

i'm thinking fighter4, wiz1 then arcane archer levels. not forgetting the LA buyoff @ lvl6 & 9. or maybe still fighter2/ranger2.....

i'll point out, i'm able to fabricate drow sleepyjuice. being able to cook up DC20 sleepyjuice at CLVL1 has proven pretty nifty so far (it just dropped a fifth level 1/2-orc pally) and i daresay it will just get more and more potent as we go (yeah, yeah. sooner or later i'll run into poison immunes.....)

holywhippet
2009-05-04, 07:49 PM
Instead of 2 levels of wizard, consider taking 2 levels of bard instead. Being an arcane archer means you aren't going to be much of a spellcasting specialist. Those levels of wizard are going to be a waste - especially if you plan on wearing armour. Bards have no arcane spell failure problem in light armour. You also get the benefits of having 2 levels of bard - like using your bard song for an extra +1 to hit/damage/save. You also get more skill points than a wizard.

I agree with the earlier suggestions of taking ranger for the other class.

sambo.
2009-05-04, 08:12 PM
Instead of 2 levels of wizard, consider taking 2 levels of bard instead.
a sociopathic Drow taking levels of bard?

umm, not to be rude, but no. that just doesn't fit my character concept at all.


I agree with the earlier suggestions of taking ranger for the other class.

yeah, you're probably right. ranger might have been a better entry to AA. well, too late now, i'm already a fighter.

might go fighter 2/ranger2....

holywhippet
2009-05-04, 08:44 PM
a sociopathic Drow taking levels of bard?

umm, not to be rude, but no. that just doesn't fit my character concept at all.



It depends on what you envision a bard as. Bards have to be non-lawful, so sociopath works just fine. They don't have to be brightly dressed minstrels who prance around the battlefield singing. Heck, bard song doesn't even need to be a song. You could be inspiring your allies with a series of jokes, taunts and curses.

Bards specialise in using their speaking skills to get what they want. Consider the main character in Silence of the Lambs - he's a certifiable nut but he's very charismatic.

Elan is a sterotypical bard, he isn't the only allowable type of bard.

Olo Demonsbane
2009-05-04, 08:46 PM
Even if you are not going to get 9th level spells, that doesn't mean you should forgoe casting completely. Lets compare some builds:

Fighter 4/Ranger 2/Wizard 1/Arcane Archer 10/Fighter +2/X 1
and
Fighter 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 3/Arcane Archer 2/Eldritch Knight +7/X 3

Build 1; 10th level. Fires 5 arrows, each doing 1d8+7 damage. Im being generous here. You have very few options in combat.
Build 2; 10th level. Fires 3 arrows. Each hits for 1d8+4...and blows up into a 7d6 fireball. Many, many options in combat.

Assuming All hits:
57.5 vs 99

And Build 2 does most of this to an area.


...Im not the best optimizer here...but look at the difference in damage potential.

holywhippet
2009-05-04, 08:53 PM
Build 2; 10th level. Fires 3 arrows. Each hits for 1d8+4...and blows up into a 7d6 fireball. Many, many options in combat.

?? How is that possible. Imbue arrow is a standard action - you can only fire one each round. You also have a limit as to how many spells you can cast each day.

sambo.
2009-05-04, 09:55 PM
Build 2; 10th level. Fires 3 arrows. Each hits for 1d8+4...and blows up into a 7d6 fireball. Many, many options in combat.
the DM has already ruled that i cannot take the Craft Magic Weapons feat to create fireball arrows (bugger).


?? How is that possible. Imbue arrow is a standard action - you can only fire one each round.
afaik under the rulings my DM has already made: it isn't.



You also have a limit as to how many spells you can cast each day.
however, i see nothing in the Imbue Arrow description that precludes me from imbuing the arrow with a spell written on a scroll rather than one that's memorised (the scroll will obviously go zwapo in doing this)