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View Full Version : [3.5e] Opposite of Versatile Spellcaster?



Warclam
2009-04-22, 04:31 PM
Versatile Spellcaster (Races of the Dragon) allows you to use two spell slots to cast a single higher-level spell. I'm pretty sure I remember there being a feat that does the opposite, let you break slots apart to get a ton of little ones, but I can't for the life of me remember where it's from or what it's called. Can anyone help me out?

monty
2009-04-22, 04:33 PM
Well, the spell arcane fusion kind of does that, but I don't think it's what you're looking for.

papr_weezl8472
2009-04-22, 05:05 PM
You're probably thinking of Arcane Manipulation, which is from Lost Empires of Faerun and can also be found in a web excerpt here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050202a).

mostlyharmful
2009-04-22, 05:23 PM
Spellcasting improves logarithmically. Higher level slots are just flat worth more than any vaguely ballpark figure level of lower level slots. You giving up multiple low level slots for more high ones makes perfect sense. You giving up high level ones for a few low level ones is about on par with cutting out your own internal organs for the money they'll buy on the black market. This is why mystic theurge is such a dead dog class.

Warclam
2009-04-22, 05:29 PM
That's the one! Thanks, that was going to bug me all day.

Yeah, it was a lot worse than I remembered it being. I know turning big slots into small one wasn't worth it, but I thought it was unlimited per day (it's not, you can only break 3 slots) and that it was a true opposite to VS and it let you turn, say, a 3rd level slot into 2 2nd level ones (that 3rd level slot is actually going to be 1 2nd and 1 1st, or 3 1sts, or something).

You see, I had an idea of using the Versatile Spellcaster thing with a Wizard to get spontaneous casting, then use Arcane Manipulation to make it so I wouldn't be burning through my slots at double speed (And if I only needed the spells I prepared, I'd get twice as many! Probably why AM doesn't work like that....). Ah well.

kjones
2009-04-22, 09:19 PM
Don't you need to be a spontaneous caster in order to use Versatile Spellcasting?

Warclam
2009-04-24, 11:46 AM
Don't you need to be a spontaneous caster in order to use Versatile Spellcasting?

Yes, but if a Wizard gains the ability to cast spontaneously (Spontaneous Divination is a classic), which satisfies the prerequisite for Versatile Spellcaster, then the wording of VS allows him to use it just the same as a sorcerer would.

Bayar
2009-04-24, 12:19 PM
Wouldnt rings of wizardry do the same thing ?

Thespianus
2009-04-24, 04:38 PM
Yeah, it was a lot worse than I remembered it being. I know turning big slots into small one wasn't worth it, but I thought it was unlimited per day (it's not, you can only break 3 slots) and that it was a true opposite to VS and it let you turn, say, a 3rd level slot into 2 2nd level ones (that 3rd level slot is actually going to be 1 2nd and 1 1st, or 3 1sts, or something).

Arcane Manipulation is not limited to three spell slots. It's unlimited, you can trade in 4 8th level spells and 3 9th level spell slots for 32+27= 59 level 1 spells.

Good for identifying loot. ;)

(Also, my Rogue/Focused Diviner/Unseer Seer might take to get more Wraithstrike and Hunter's Eye opportunities :)

Teron
2009-04-24, 04:53 PM
Arcane Manipulation is not limited to three spell slots. It's unlimited, you can trade in 4 8th level spells and 3 9th level spell slots for 32+27= 59 level 1 spells.
Yes, it is limited, at least according to the web excerpt linked by papr_weezl8472:


When you prepare spells, you can break down up to three existing arcane spell slots to create a specified number of lower-level spell slots.

Swooper
2009-04-24, 05:44 PM
Good for identifying loot. ;)
I prefer Detect Magic + Spellcraft check for that, myself. One cantrip for identifying everything, instead of a 1st level spell and 100gp for each item. The DC is 10 more than identifying the school/aura strength of the item, so a mid-high level wizard should be able to make it pretty reliably.

On topic: A game I was in several years ago had the house-rule (one of MANY - it was a heavily modified D20 game in the L5R setting, including multiple homebrewed classes... wasn't really D&D, but I digress) that you could always use three N-level spell slots to cast a single N+1-level spell, or you could change an N-level spell slots into two N-1-level spells (the game had no prepared casters). Of course, you still can't use this to cast higher level spells than you already have access to.

When I think about it, that might be an awesome ability to give sorcerers in a regular game. Might help balance them against wizards. *ponder*

Thespianus
2009-04-25, 12:41 AM
Yes, it is limited, at least according to the web excerpt linked by papr_weezl8472:

That is just amazing. I have read the feat description many, many times and completely missed the first sentence. Outstanding failure on my part. I do stand corrected.

What's caught my eye is the "The number of spell slots you can create in this manner is otherwise unlimited", so I've figured it to be completely unlimited. Bah, humbug.

Thanks for the schooling, though. ;)

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-04-25, 12:45 AM
On topic: A game I was in several years ago had the house-rule (one of MANY - it was a heavily modified D20 game in the L5R setting, including multiple homebrewed classes... wasn't really D&D, but I digress) that you could always use three N-level spell slots to cast a single N+1-level spell, or you could change an N-level spell slots into two N-1-level spells (the game had no prepared casters). Of course, you still can't use this to cast higher level spells than you already have access to.Versatile Spellcaster actually does give you access to spells higher than you have access to, though. There's a reason it's recommended for Beguilers and Dread Necros. Heck, even CustServ says it should be allowed for a Sorcerer to cast spell Heightened to one above his highest level using it.

Thespianus
2009-04-25, 12:45 AM
I prefer Detect Magic + Spellcraft check for that, myself. One cantrip for identifying everything, instead of a 1st level spell and 100gp for each item. The DC is 10 more than identifying the school/aura strength of the item, so a mid-high level wizard should be able to make it pretty reliably. That's awesome, I had no idea. Where is this rule from? I can't find it in my PHB, but then again, it seems I'm completely unable to parse text these days ;)

Sallera
2009-04-25, 01:07 PM
Oh, neat. That is indeed an awesome rule. (I, too, have no clue where it's from originally, but I found it in the Rules Compendium under magic items. I love that book. ^^)