Something that has been bugging me...

[Linkavitch]

Redcloak is a cleric, right? And Disintegrate is a wizard spell, right? So Reddie shouldn't be able to use it, right? (Correct me if I'm wrong. Actually that's what this whole thread is about.) So, why, in this comic:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0480.html (Change of Address Needed)

does Reddie use Disintegrate on Hinjo.

[Silverraptor]

Because Disentigrate is a Destruction domain cleric spell.

[Shpadoinkle]

Because Disentigrate is a Destruction domain cleric spell.

That would be my guess.

[Silverraptor]

That would be my guess.

Not a guess, it's a fact. You can look it up in the PH.

[Linkavitch]

Ah. That would explain it. Then how does V use it? Are there two different types?

[Silverraptor]

Ah. That would explain it. Then how does V use it? Are there two different types?

No, it's the same spell. Clerics with destruction domain can choose it, while wizards prepare it.

[Claudius Maximus]

What bugs me more is this: if Redcloak has the Law domain, why was he surprised that the high priest of the 12 gods can cast Hold Monster?

[Sutremaine]

Redcloak doesn't have the Law domain.

[Logalmier]

What bugs me more is this: if Redcloak has the Law domain, why was he surprised that the high priest of the 12 gods can cast Hold Monster?

What makes you think he got the law domain? I always thought his domains were Destruction and War. Destruction because of Disintegrate obviously, and War because of Blade Barrier (I know that Blade Barrier is a regular Cleric spell, that's just how I interpret it.)

[Zevox]

Ah. That would explain it. Then how does V use it? Are there two different types?
No. Disintegrate is simply normally a Wizard/Sorcerer spell, not a Cleric spell; but the Destruction Domain lets a Cleric prepare it in his level 7 Domain spell slot. Many Cleric domains grant access to spells that normally are not on the Cleric list, and Destruction with Disintegrate is just one example.


What bugs me more is this: if Redcloak has the Law domain, why was he surprised that the high priest of the 12 gods can cast Hold Monster?
And what evidence exactly do we have that he has the Law domain?


I always thought his domains were Destruction and War. Destruction because of Disintegrate obviously, and War because of Blade Barrier (I know that Blade Barrier is a regular Cleric spell, that's just how I interpret it.)
...you realize that your interpretation makes absolutely no sense because there is no reason whatsoever that a Cleric casting Blade Barrier is evidence that he has the War domain, yet you still choose to interpret it that way? Huh?

Zevox

[Yendor]

...you realize that your interpretation makes absolutely no sense because there is no reason whatsoever that a Cleric casting Blade Barrier is evidence that he has the War domain, yet you still choose to interpret it that way? Huh?

It's also a Good domain spell. <sarcasm>Hey, Redcloak must be Lawful Good!</sarcasm>

[Porthos]

The evidence for Redcloak having both the Law Domain and the Destruction Domain can be found in Start of Darkness.

Besides the fact that Redcloak casts Disintergrate in the comic proper, we also know that Redcloak has the Destruction Domain because he uses Smite as a 1/day ability (and references it as a 1/day type thing). As for the Law Domain, ironically enuf, it's because Redcloak casts Hold Monster in one of his fights.

So the only "in-character" explanation that makes much sense is that he's surprised to run into another Cleric that took the same Domain he did. :smalltongue:

The meta explanation is that Rich probably doesn't feel too bad about telling a minor joke that partially doesn't jibe with a book that only a fraction of his overall audience has read. And since the situation can be hand-waved away, I really doubt Rich lost much sleep over the situation. :smalltongue:

[Tempest Fennac]

RC isn't likely to have memorized the Domains which Clerics of the 12 Gods can use (he would be likely to if he had access to the information, but it's probably kept secret due to how other people knowing thr 12 God's Domains could give them some advantages over the Azurites in battles). I just assumed that RC was surprised becausehe didn't expect the High Priest to have that Domain. (Even if he did know what the 12 God's Domains were, the Priest he fought could only pick 2 without a PrC which gives extra Domains, unless he was a Cloistered Cleric).

[Poil]

Wait, he's surprised that the high priest of a town ruled by paladins has the law domain? :smalltongue:

[Tempest Fennac]

The priest may not be Lawful (he could be Neutral Good, which would disqualify him from taking the Law domain, if I remember correctly). Also, there's no evidence that the High Priest had the Good Domain, which is what you'd expect if you class the Paladins as important for domain choices.

[Silverraptor]

The priest may not be Lawful (he could be Neutral Good, which would disqualify him from taking the Law domain, if I remember correctly). Also, there's no evidence that the High Priest had the Good Domain, which is what you'd expect if you class the Paladins as important for domain choices.

Not necessarily. You can worship gods who only have 1 different minor alignment difference than you. So a Neutral Good priest can still have the law domain.

[Zhalath]

I think the surprise is Burlew taking a dig at the Law domain, as the alignment based domains are pretty lame.

EDIT: @Silverraptor: you can't take an alignment domain when you don't have that alignment. It says that somewhere in the PH.

[Shatteredtower]

EDIT: @Silverraptor: you can't take an alignment domain when you don't have that alignment. It says that somewhere in the PH.

Page 32, last sentence of the first full paragraph on the right half of the page.

[homeosapiens]

Heh. This topic reminds me that i once thought that Reddie is so epic that he can cast wiz/sorc spells of this lv.

Nevermind of my mumbling he cas cast dezintegrate only once a day.

What buggers me -why did he think he killed Hinjo?

[Theodoriph]

The evidence for Redcloak having both the Law Domain and the Destruction Domain can be found in Start of Darkness.

Besides the fact that Redcloak casts Disintergrate in the comic proper, we also know that Redcloak has the Destruction Domain because he uses Smite as a 1/day ability (and references it as a 1/day type thing). As for the Law Domain, ironically enuf, it's because Redcloak casts Hold Monster in one of his fights.

So the only "in-character" explanation that makes much sense is that he's surprised to run into another Cleric that took the same Domain he did. :smalltongue:

The meta explanation is that Rich probably doesn't feel too bad about telling a minor joke that partially doesn't jibe with a book that only a fraction of his overall audience has read. And since the situation can be hand-waved away, I really doubt Rich lost much sleep over the situation. :smalltongue:


I don't have my copy of SoD with me, so I'm working off memory. But I always interpreted his use of smite as an ability granted by the Red Cloak as opposed to his domain. That helps explain why he had no real clue what he had done.

[Lissou]

Heh. This topic reminds me that i once thought that Reddie is so epic that he can cast wiz/sorc spells of this lv.

Nevermind of my mumbling he cas cast dezintegrate only once a day.

What buggers me -why did he think he killed Hinjo?

Hinjo is probably a higher level than Redcloak thought, and wasn't killed by the spell like other paladins would have been.

[Silverraptor]

Page 32, last sentence of the first full paragraph on the right half of the page.

Oh dammit.:smallsigh: Didn't see it or comprehend what it exactly meant till you directed my attention to it. My bad everyone. Here I'll post what it says:

A cleric of a chaotic, evil, good, or lawful deity has a particularly powerful aura corresponding to the deity's alignment. Clerics who don't worship a specific deity but choose the Chaotic, Evil, Good, or lawful domain have a similarly powerful aura.

[homeosapiens]

I didnt ask why he didnt kill Hinjo(nevermind of that that i think Hinjo is lower lv than Reddie - reddie=miko by lv, as i interpret). I asked why he THOUGHT he killed him.

[Silverraptor]

Heh. This topic reminds me that i once thought that Reddie is so epic that he can cast wiz/sorc spells of this lv.

Nevermind of my mumbling he cas cast dezintegrate only once a day.

What buggers me -why did he think he killed Hinjo?
Hinjo is probably a higher level than Redcloak thought, and wasn't killed by the spell like other paladins would have been.

I think he means that why did Redcloak think he killed Hinjo when Hinjo didn't turn to dust. And the answer I think is that Redcloak didn't think there was a cleric onboard a ship with a bunch of peasants. He also probably thought he did over 50 damage to Hinjo but Hinjo's heath point total was still positive and that was the reason he wasn't dust.(And Hinjo made his fort save to survive not dying instantly)

[Aaron]

I didnt ask why he didnt kill Hinjo(nevermind of that that i think Hinjo is lower lv than Reddie - reddie=miko by lv, as i interpret). I asked why he THOUGHT he killed him.

I think Redcloak thought he had killed Hinjo because, as Silverraptor said, Redcloak didn't think their was a cleric on the ship. Also, if you look at the panel where Hinjo is hit with Disintegrate (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0480.html), he's above the water. Then he is knocked back several feet and lands head first on the ship (ow:smalleek:) with a thunk, falling unconscious but still with at least 1 HP (all happening in half a second). All Redcloak did was say "Disintegrate," then instantly hear a "THUNK!" If I was in Redcloak's position, I would definetly think Hinjo was dead.

[factotum]

Why does everyone assume Redcloak thinks Hinjo is dead? If he thought that, why did he shout at him AFTER he'd hit him with the disintegrate?

Oh, and given the way Disintegrate works, if you hit someone with it and then hear a thunk, you KNOW they're not dead--anybody reduced to below 0 hit points by the spell is reduced to ash, which doesn't thunk all that well!

[with an e]

Why does everyone assume Redcloak thinks Hinjo is dead? If he thought that, why did he shout at him AFTER he'd hit him with the disintegrate?
Because he said "I should have captured that paladin instead of killing him!" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0484.html) This indicates that he thought he killed Hinjo. Gloating over the remains of an enemy is a common act.


Oh, and given the way Disintegrate works, if you hit someone with it and then hear a thunk, you KNOW they're not dead--anybody reduced to below 0 hit points by the spell is reduced to ash, which doesn't thunk all that well!
False. As Silverraptor pointed out, disintegrate can do massive damage (will almost certainly do massive damage if the target fails the fort save against Redcloak's disintegrate, since he is 15+), in which case the target can die as a result of the disintegrate and still remain intact.

[Tempest Fennac]

I took it as RC refering to the fact that he tried to kill Hinjo (due to the thudding noise, RC could have thought the fall damage had finished Hinjo off, though, assuming he even heard it).

SoD spoiler.
I thought RC knew what he was doing when using Smite. On the other hand, while we can't be sure of RC's level, it appeared to do much more damage then a normal Smite would from a (presumably) newly qualified Cleric, assuming he had only just finished his training that day and that getting a white cloak wasn't solely to do with his rank in the Dark One's church.

[Moriarty]

False. As Silverraptor pointed out, disintegrate can do massive damage (will almost certainly do massive damage if the target fails the fort save against Redcloak's disintegrate, since he is 15+), in which case the target can die as a result of the disintegrate and still remain intact.

nope, quote from the srd:


A creature or object that makes a successful Fortitude save is partially affected, taking only 5d6 points of damage. If this damage reduces the creature or object to 0 or fewer hit points, it is entirely disintegrated.

So the only possible way Hinjo could have died would be from the falling damage.

[Silverraptor]

nope, quote from the srd:

A creature or object that makes a successful Fortitude save is partially affected, taking only 5d6 points of damage. If this damage reduces the creature or object to 0 or fewer hit points, it is entirely disintegrated.

So the only possible way Hinjo could have died would be from the falling damage.

On the contrary. As it says, if the creature is reduced to 0 or fewer hitpoints they get turned to dust. However, on a different page it says that if you do 50 points of damage or more on a creature and they fail a fort, they die instantly, regardless of their remaining hit points. So one can argue that even if disintegrate kills a target by doing more than 50 hp, the target could still be intact and not dust while still dead from the spell.

[lord_khaine]

listen isnt a Cleric skill, it might be RC did not hear the Thunk of Hinjo hitting the deck

[EyethatBinds]

On the contrary. As it says, if the creature is reduced to 0 or fewer hitpoints they get turned to dust. However, on a different page it says that if you do 50 points of damage or more on a creature and they fail a fort, they die instantly, regardless of their remaining hit points. So one can argue that even if disintegrate kills a target by doing more than 50 hp, the target could still be intact and not dust while still dead from the spell.

Actually that would depend on the GM's take on the situation. Since the player or NPC in this case is dead anyhow, the method in which they die and the amount of the remains is mostly a matter for resurrection. Since this was an NPC I doubt players would even care about his death, so I'd just describe this theoretical scenario in whichever way seemed the most dramatically appropriate.

The GM plays heavily into what happens on the "board" and needs must as the devil drives. Sometimes a disintegrated paladin isn't as useful for a story as his body being entombed somewhere.