Questions about super-speed and perception

[Stormthorn]

I got a few questions about what the world would be like if you could change your frame of referance so the world seems to slow down around you while you move normaly. Like, bullets move at walking speed slow.

A: What would the gorund and air be like? I had someone suggests that you wouldnt experiance much friction at this point causing you to slide all over the place. I had someone else suggests that you would experiance greatly increased friction.

B: Would i destroy a car by leaning on it? From my point of view im moving normaly so i wouldbt be injured by leaning on a car but from the cars normal referance im moving faster than a bullet and have a lot more mass.

[averagejoe]

I assume that you mean all of your movements are sped up and your perception is increased by a corresponding degree? I'm not entirely sure if I'm interpreting your intent correctly.

A: Friction is dependent only on the force between the two surfaces and the nature of the surfaces, so friction would be the same. Well, you'd experience less in a sense, in that if your legs are moving faster relative to the ground then your chances of slipping are greater, and the friction acting on a kinetic object is less than the maximum which can act on a static object, but otherwise there is no difference. Now, that friction might count for less from your point of view, depending on the circumstances, because the force of your legs would be greater.

B: You'd be far more likely to hurt yourself by flinging yourself at a car. The car might get some damage, but it would win. I believe that leaning generally involves gravity more than your own action (you, in essence, let yourself "fall" at a wall or surface) and in this state you wouldn't fall any faster, so there would be no difference there. However, you are able to strike things with more force if moving under your own power.

Edit: In both A and B I am making some assumptions about the mechanics of human motion that I'm not entirely sure are correct. However, this seems like at least a decent beginning analysis.

[Anonomuss]

Not quite, what it'd be like, from a reality point of view (Although I don't know why, as we're talking about super-speed), if you had super speed, unless you also had vastly increased ability to perceive things at greater speed, is that everything would just blur. (I will take this as A1 and B1)

You would need your brain to be able to receive information and respond to it at the same proportional increase in speed that your body receives for it to be as you have envisaged. (I will take these as A2 and B2).

A1. The ground and air would be the same. Just they'd appear to be blurs to you because they'd be passing by so quickly. You might get wind burn, unless you managed to shield your skin in some way.
Also friction would neither increase, nor decrease. It's proportional to the force you exert on the ground, so it remains the same. However, if you went to stop, it would take much longer because you are going faster.

A2. The Ground and air would, again, be the same, just you'd see them more clearly. Gravity and friction would appear overly slow to you, and yes, everything would slow down.

B1. Yes, you could destroy a car by doing that (Mass x Velocity=Force, roughly in the special case of Newton's Second law*.), but only by the virtue of moving at such a great speed. It'd be like elbowing it really, really quickly. Also, you might well shatter your bones, because well, Newton's third law states that for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction. So unless you were extremely careful, or reinforced your bones, they're just going to shatter.

B2. Same, same. Faster perception would just help you be more careful with this type of motion.


((More accurately, the second law states that force is proportional to the rate of change of momentum of a body))

EDIT: Ninja'd, must've been the super speed...

[Keris]

For a surface, the maximum value of friction would remain the same, as the coefficient of friction and the normal force would be the same. The drag force would be huge though, as you'd be moving at a very high velocity. The air would feel (I'd imagine) to be incredible viscous, as your mind couldn't imagine you moving as fast as you are.

A relatively small percentage change in your velocity would be a huge numerical shift, which would require a massive acceleration. You'd skid along the floor, unable to stop, the friction it provides woefully inadequate. You're moving as fast as a bullet and you expect to stop on a dime?
Impacting against a surface would cause a huge dent, as it would be unable to absorb the huge force you're exerting on it. You could easily punch your way through a brick wall, think about how much momentum your fists would have here.

Bear in mind that while your frame of reference might have changed, from the frame of reference of everything you interact with, you're moving supersonic. Including the air, so expect a sonic boom as you move. That alone will cause quite a bit of damage to the surrounding.

Right, that my take on it, but I expect to be proven wrong. Hopefully with a live demonstration. :smalltongue:

[averagejoe]

You could easily punch your way through a brick wall, think about how much momentum your fists would have here.

Not that your hand would survive it.

[Keris]

Not that your hand would survive it.

But neither would the brick wall. Or any windows nearby. :smalltongue:

[Stormthorn]

For a surface, the maximum value of friction would remain the same, as the coefficient of friction and the normal force would be the same. The drag force would be huge though, as you'd be moving at a very high velocity. The air would feel (I'd imagine) to be incredible viscous, as your mind couldn't imagine you moving as fast as you are.

A relatively small percentage change in your velocity would be a huge numerical shift, which would require a massive acceleration. You'd skid along the floor, unable to stop, the friction it provides woefully inadequate. You're moving as fast as a bullet and you expect to stop on a dime?
Impacting against a surface would cause a huge dent, as it would be unable to absorb the huge force you're exerting on it. You could easily punch your way through a brick wall, think about how much momentum your fists would have here.

Bear in mind that while your frame of reference might have changed, from the frame of reference of everything you interact with, you're moving supersonic. Including the air, so expect a sonic boom as you move. That alone will cause quite a bit of damage to the surrounding.

Right, that my take on it, but I expect to be proven wrong. Hopefully with a live demonstration. :smalltongue:

Thats what i was thinking.

See, the way im trying to set it up the character doesnt just move fast, its almost like two universes (his and everyone elses) being forced to interact. In his universe punching a brick wall would hurt, but not more than it would a normal human. In everyone elses universe his arm is moving at many thousands of feet per second and the wall is toast while he seems invincible (unless they hit him with a large object moving at hundreds of thousands of feet per second).

I had to come up with some way for him to go that fast without hurting himself or it would be the worlds most useless super power.

[Anonomuss]

That and the co-efficient of restitution of Fist to Wall would suck.

The force you'd use to propel your fist through the wall would be applied back onto your fist, by the wall, to stop it, and all the way up your arm.
Compound Fracture anyone?

EDIT:
What you could do is that he has to activate it, and while moving he's invincible. Much the same way as the juggernaut from the X-men. But if you stop him, squishy human.

[Llama231]

Only thing that I would guess in any of this sort of situation would be noticing everything else going really slow.

[GoC]

Depends what type the superspeed is. If you go with "true" superspeed* (the time factor in all equations decreased X times over) then you gain quite a bit of superstrength and invulnerability to go with it.
Generally your perception of things is sped up X times, your strength and invulnerability X^2 times and you power output/energy consumption increased X^3 times.

Now the bullets at walking pace thing means you're moving around 300 times faster than normal. That equates to 90,000 times normal strength and durability (no non-speedsters are going to touch you OR hurt you). You live not in a world of wet carboard but in a world of wet toilet paper (AKA tungsten). Your punches will disintegrate all normal matter and virtually no superhero can stand up to you (Superman might, depending on his powers that day but not even Thor can do much damage and heroes like Spiderman will be a fine mist).
To but this in context an X of 10 is good enough to be on the Justice League and allows nigh immunity to non-superspeed punches.** Your X is 300.*** Yeah.:smalltongue:

As for how it would seem... air resistance would seem the same to you as it's proportional to the square of the velocity and your strength has increased X^2 times over.
The ground would seem like ice but gravity would seem very very weak so you wouldn't fall down.
You can jump X^2 times your normal jumping height for small X. For your X of 300 you are going to experience a lot of drag but jumping tall buildings should be easy enough and flight should be possible via flapping your arms (but the heat generated may cause complications).
As for leaning against a car: the main force here is gravity which remains unchanged but move a little bit and you will break the car (without even feeling it).

* Less complicated than the speed force whith it's gross violations of Newton's laws of motion AND basic common sense but it still requires some secondary powers.*****
The first has to do with the fact your body temperature is now 27,000,000 degrees centigrade.:smalltongue:
The second has to do with the ridiculous amount of energy you are using up.
The third has to do with the required modifications to your senses of hearing, touch, taste, smell and sight.

** Strangely enough large caliber bullets still injure you and a tank bullet will kill you easily. This is where I get the idea that writers don't give near enough credit to modern weapons.

*** Nukes still kill you easily (at ranges of under 100m) though and a MOAB will sting a bit if you sit on it as it goes off.

**** Nukes have such a small blast radius for that much destructive power,
don't you think?

***** Hint: You NEED superstrength to have superspeed (unless your mass is GREATLY reduced as well) and you'll also need superdurability to survive that superstrength (at least at the level you're talking about).

[Mando Knight]

On friction: Your ground friction won't change much, but if you're moving several hundred times faster than standard human running speeds (such as the typical super-speedster's cruise speed), the air resistance spikes. Especially if you've somehow broken the sound barrier (like most super-speedsters), or even worse after you approach relativistic speeds (i.e. the Flash or Superman moving at top speeds). See Required Secondary Powers (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RequiredSecondaryPowers).

[Stormthorn]

I was going to have an important post here. The page failed to load ad when i backed up all that i had typed is gone.

Anyways, im glad i attracted so amny helpful math nerds.

[†Seer†]

While I don't have any lofty math to contribute (kudos to those who did though!), just wanted to say this was a nifty thread to read before work!