PDA

View Full Version : Ship needs more room :( (3.5)



shimmercat
2009-04-25, 09:50 AM
Our game is centered around the Good Fortune, a caravel that my character purchased and then staffs using followers, his cohort (the bosun), and PCs (the other watch officers). The problem is, we keep adding more followers. XD The ship is starting to get a BIT CRAMPED, not to mention that we have two couples at this point (teen pregnancy among followers ARG) and we would really like to give them their own rooms. I'm perfectly willing to sink some gold into the ship to give us pocket dimensions for rooms (or maybe be able to expand the space we have?), but I'm having a hard time finding spells that will give us just MORE SPACE, rather than crazy mansions.

Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion is just way, WAY too much. Rope trick is a little silly, although it's more the direction I'm looking for. All the Leomund's spells make a physical object, which isn't really appropriate in this case. I've tried doing some searches to see if someone has asked a similar question before, but I didn't manage to find anything. Does anyone have any suggestions? The DM is usually willing to work with me and tweak things, as long as it's not something that would make my character obscenely overpowered, which this wouldn't.

Edit: I should mention that we lack an arcane caster, so I would be purchasing this spell, probably in item form, and that it would be a custom job -- DM says all of this is fine ... as long as I can afford it using the item rules in the DMG. :smalleek:

Edit2: Purchasing a new ship is not an option, for about a thousand tiny RP-related reasons (sentimental value, availability of ships, speed, etc.). Buying a second ship would not really be a good solution, either. I'm looking for a clever answer (or an obscure spell) to fix the current ship.



EDIT:Well.... to everyone who said we should just kill off the followers...

Last night, our little ship got a very unexpected visit from our "end boss" enemy. He took what he wanted, and then cast Weird.

We lost 2 out of 5 PCs, the cohort, and 20 out of 27 followers. The ship went from 33 people to 10 in twelve seconds. And because it is was a death effect that killed them, Raise Dead doesn't work and so my 12-lvl cleric can't bring them back.

Est. cost of revival for the entire ship: over a quarter million gold.

...I don't think we are getting those followers back.

Yeah, this DM has never used a death effect on anyone before. We were not prepared.

ZeroNumerous
2009-04-25, 09:56 AM
The sad thing is.. You're probably better off buying a bigger ship or losing some followers. Buying a permanent spell will cost you much more gold than a ship would. Probably. Alternatively, steal a bigger one. There's always an adventure to be head if you're stealing everything you need. :smallamused:

shimmercat
2009-04-25, 10:15 AM
Well, I would probably end up buying an ITEM of whatever it was -- like an item of Rope Trick would be 12k. That's not unreasonable, really.

Not sure how happy the paladin would be if we were stealing everything we wanted. XD And as for losing followers... well, we've taken the followers a rather different direction than people normally would -- we RP with them. All of the followers have names, ages, sexes and at least a vague backstory, some have much more than that. Many of them are refuges of some type or another -- ex-slaves, a family that couldn't afford rent and was going to starve, a group of teens that follow the same cult-god that my character is a cleric of, ex-cons from a corrupt militant government who need asylum. One of the followers is in a romantic relationship with one of the PCs, and several others have strong non-romantic relationships with PCs. I can't get rid of them. :smalleek: The ship itself has a strong sentimental value for my character... yeah, I can't replace it.

I'm probably going to go with Rope Trick if no one can suggest anything better. I was just kinda surprised that D&D didn't have any spell that simply made a living space LARGER. If you've read Harry Potter, like the Weasley's tent at the Quidditch World Cup. :smallbiggrin:

Nohwl
2009-04-25, 10:17 AM
could you buy another ship?

Jack_Simth
2009-04-25, 10:20 AM
Get a second ship. Or a few Folding Boats. Or re-read the description of Magnificent Mansion - you can go with whatever floorplan you like - so you could make a lot of small rooms, and cut out the luxuries.

shimmercat
2009-04-25, 10:23 AM
Buying another ship would be a last, last, LAST resort.

In addition to the sentimental value of this ship (we call our campaign "The Crew of the Good Fortune"), we are on the wrong side of the world to purchase one, and the world is gearing up for a major naval war and ships are at a premium right now. Plus, the caravel is the FASTEST of the ships in SW (other than the pinnace, which is much smaller), and speed matters when you are an independent element in a world in a naval war, speed is really important.

Edit: I'm really not trying to be a pain in the ass. XD I just can't believe that there is no spell that makes a living space larger magically, other than the Mansion, which I think would be just toooooooo expensive.

hamishspence
2009-04-25, 10:27 AM
what about the elven wingship and the brig? Both are much bigger than the pinnace (smaller than the caravel though) and faster.

Glyde
2009-04-25, 10:44 AM
I'm gonna jump on the 'buy more ships' bandwagon - Start up a fleet!

Assassin89
2009-04-25, 10:51 AM
How about the use of reduce person? If you can't make the ship bigger, make the people smaller. :smalltongue:

Djinn_in_Tonic
2009-04-25, 10:59 AM
Hmmm...portable holes might work, but 14,000gp for a 10x10ft space is a little much.

That said, items don't have to duplicate the spells exactly. I see no reason that you couldn't have an item requiring Rope Trick or the Magnificent Mansion as a creator requirement, that merely serves to increase the interior dimensions of a ship. Talk to your DM...if he's okay with you buying such a thing to allow you to keep the ship, he may be willing to allow some homebrew item to accomplish it.

Faulty
2009-04-25, 11:00 AM
that we have two couples at this point (teen pregnancy among followers ARG)

Really, for followers...

http://www.peta2.com/OUTTHERE/page/catpower72.jpg

It's for the best.

shimmercat
2009-04-25, 11:07 AM
*wonders what happens when you start casting stuff like Reduce Person on a pregnant 13-year-old* :smalltongue:

Portable holes only have enough air for 10 minutes. XD We happen to know this from hiding someone in one in an earlier part of the game -- although the DM let us get around it because we had a bottle of air.

Yeah, I'm leaning pretty strongly towards Rope Trick at this point. Unfortunately, it doesn't say how much space it actually makes, just that it "holds as many as eight creatures (of any size)" and the DM is saying that that's only one room. XD

Faulty
2009-04-25, 11:22 AM
Have the followers build another ship!

Bayar
2009-04-25, 11:38 AM
You could check out the spells in D20 modern (or was it Urban Arcana ?) that adds extradimensional space to vehicles. Like Clown Car :biggrin:.

Lamech
2009-04-25, 11:38 AM
Rope trick at will is 2k*12*2=48k's Half if it comes in trap form. (Need a long term duration.) That can create a lot of holding places for people, but they couldn't really store their stuff.

Stealthdozer
2009-04-25, 11:47 AM
I'm a sailor actually. I understand.

Ship spaces are designed without sailors in mind. What I'm getting at is that a surprising amount of people can be crammed into one space. Ship's berthing racks are typically just small enough not to smother a sleeper, and stacked three or even four high. Hammocks can be used too.

Also, depending on how your ship is used, can any cargo space be converted to berthing quarters?

kjones
2009-04-25, 11:50 AM
Buy a new ship and call it the Good Fortune, a la the new Dread Pirate Roberts. :smallbiggrin:

RavKal
2009-04-25, 12:03 PM
Build an addition, since you're so sentimental.

You could make your ship a bit like an iceberg, little on top, LOTS more on bottom. :smalltongue:

Other than that, I suggest tying barrels to ropes and dragging sleeping people behind the ship.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-04-25, 12:07 PM
You could check out the spells in D20 modern (or was it Urban Arcana ?) that adds extradimensional space to vehicles. Like Clown Car :biggrin:.That seems like the best idea so far, since the OP really just wants to make the ship bigger on the inside than the outside.

One other option could be to conquor your own private island, set up living spaces on there, and then use a Permanancied Teleportation Circle so that no one sleeps on the ship. Similar things could be done with unlimited Ring Gates or a Well of Many Worlds.

wadledo
2009-04-25, 12:24 PM
Clown Car (http://d20resources.com/arcana.d20.srd/spells/clown.car.php) spell.

The private Island also seems like a good idea no matter what, seeing as how there are going to be kids running around.
On a battleship.
In combat.:smallannoyed:

shimmercat
2009-04-25, 12:26 PM
Pregnant girl is already a portable hole. *snare snare cymbal* I have a feeling that I should be offended for my entire sex. D:<


I'm a sailor actually. I understand.

Ship spaces are designed without sailors in mind. What I'm getting at is that a surprising amount of people can be crammed into one space. Ship's berthing racks are typically just small enough not to smother a sleeper, and stacked three or even four high. Hammocks can be used too.

Also, depending on how you ship is used, can any cargo space be converted to berthing quarters? We probably could, but it would require some pretty major rearranging of everyone's sleeping quarters, which I'd prefer not to do for RP reasons. It's awesome to hear that you understand! I've gotten all "YAY SHIPS!" and "YAY SAILORS!" since we've started this game, and have learned all these nautical terms, etc. XD I wish we could go out on a ship ourselfs, but we live in the midwest, soooooooo.... XD


That seems like the best idea so far, since the OP really just wants to make the ship bigger on the inside than the outside.

One other option could be to conquor your own private island, set up living spaces on there, and then use a Permanancied Teleportation Circle so that no one sleeps on the ship. Similar things could be done with unlimited Ring Gates or a Well of Many Worlds.
Agreed about the D20 Modern suggestion. The DM says that it would be fine to take spells from there, assuming that they aren't really modern-technology-based. We'll have to check it out. We've never used anything from d20 Modern before and I'm not sure I want to buy the book for just this one thing; do they have an something like the d20 SRD for it?

Epic solution noted, for when we get epic. XD Currently level 12, although this is a very long-running game that we do plan to take to epic levels.

Edit: Thanks, Waldedo, for the link! Beat me too it. XD

We've already got children on the ship, actually. Several leveled NPCs make sure that all of our named, personalitied, in-relationships-with-PCs 1st level experts don't get fireballed to death. My cohort doesn't go into battle (one too many people with 5 PCs, IMO) and he takes care of all the lower level people.

snoopy13a
2009-04-25, 12:33 PM
Ships are supposed to be cramped, very cramped. Back in the age of sail, warships were incredibly cramped (merchant ships, not as much as they didn't need that much crew).

Most of the followers can sling hammocks below. Give each man three feet wide and seven feet long for their hammock. Remember that you'll have two watches, so in a room 35' long and 15' wide you could berth 50 sailors. If you're going with three watches, you could fit 75. Seriously, this is how they did it.

For a visual idea of just how small those things were, go see the USS Constitution in Boston Harbor (at the Charlestown Navy Yard). They fit over 400 people on that thing.

As for the pregnant followers, dump them in port along with their lovers. If it continues to be a problem, only recruit male followers.

shimmercat
2009-04-25, 12:50 PM
Things were ALREADY really cramped, and we're picking up more people. Plus, my character has some extra gold and wants to make his crew more comfortable. That's the point of all of this. I've read Horatio Hornblower, I know what conditions were like on ships of the line. We are not a battleship, though, we're an independent ship, and my NG/CG character loves his crew and wants them to be happy. (Plus, he gave up his own cabin to house the women who wanted separate sleeping quarters, and due to RP events, kinda wants it back but isn't going to ask.)

snoopy, I really, REALLY didn't appreciate the sexist remark about the pregnancy. It takes two to tango.

Faulty
2009-04-25, 01:03 PM
I have a feeling that I should be offended for my entire sex. D:<

It was in bad humour, but I couldn't resist. :smallbiggrin: No real offense meant to the opposite sex.


I really, REALLY didn't appreciate the sexist remark about the pregnancy. It takes two to tango.

Quite obviously, I was not serious at all. I guess you can't express tone over the internet, but I'm perfectly aware that anything that goes for women goes for men, as well.

I'll wipe the post so it doesn't bother anyone else.

Lycanthromancer
2009-04-25, 01:06 PM
I so want to design an item called the Ship-in-a-Bottle that will keep a ship and crew comfortably minimized until thrown overboard (whereupon everything returns to normal size, and can be minimized again by the command word being spoken by the one manning the wheel).

Maybe you could have such an item custom-made? Just store them somewhere nearby. That'd solve your passenger problems (and it would lead to an instafleet if you were suddenly outnumbered and outgunned).

Though I love the private island resort idea (just make sure you can properly defend it!).

shimmercat
2009-04-25, 01:06 PM
Amesoeurs, don't worry about it -- I'm not REALLY offended by your comment, because it was just a joke.

snoopy's last paragraph, however, IS offensive.




God, I sound like such a prude. XD

I LOVE the island idea too, it's just not possible with our current resources. BUT AW MAN WHEN WE GET EPIC.

snoopy13a
2009-04-25, 01:11 PM
I really, REALLY didn't appreciate the sexist remark about the pregnancy. It takes two to tango.

That's why I said to dump their lover as well. I suppose an alternative would be to tell your DM to stop having followers hook up. Or instead of only male followers, only female followers. Your ship has enough trouble without bringing babies on board.

But honestly, what is the point of all of the crew? You likely only need around 10-20 people to actually sail the ship. The reason the warships had so much crew were to operate the cannons. The officers had to force these guys to perpertually clean the ship, give them lots of rum to keep their minds busy. They also had a group of Marines on board to discourage mutinies. What are 60-70 people who aren't actually sailing the ship doing all day?

It sounds like most of the followers are really doing nothing outside of taking up space. This cuts into cargo space and providing for all of the non-paying passengers costs money.

Faulty
2009-04-25, 01:22 PM
Amesoeurs, don't worry about it -- I'm not REALLY offended by your comment, because it was just a joke.

Oh, whew. I don't want to offend anyone, haha.


God, I sound like such a prude. XD

Naw, in general I really try to avoid jokes that target people based on things that they don't choose (homophobic, sexist, racist, etc. jokes) and logically justified views or lifestyle choices (as in vegetarianism, but not like, racists) because it creates a normative atmosphere which starts to get to people subconsciously and makes sexism start to seem "ok". I obviously throw the occassional un-PC joke out there, but it can be a serious matter if it gets out of hand, and I'm sorry if I offended anyone accidentally.



But seriously, just make the followers build a bigger boat. :smallwink:

EDIT: Ooo! Build/purchase a sister vessal. You could start making a fleet!

shimmercat
2009-04-25, 01:29 PM
The followers are RP fodder, and this is a very RP-oriented group. For the first story arc of the game, the crew of the ship didn't have names and personalities. For the second arc, we decided to try something different and they ALL do. It has been an amazing, TOTAL success. The game has gotten 1000x better since we gave the crew names and lives and their own goals.

Give people lives, and they sometimes do things that are contrary to your interests. Like get pregnant. Or scream at PCs. Or hit on the PCs inappropriately. Or fall overboard. Or break the mizzen mast. Or ask to get married. Or try to get the PCs drunk. Or make rude comments at the PC barbarian that cause the barbarian to attack them and they almost die. These have ALL happened. And they were all AWESOME.

Our goal is not to STOP things like that, it's to ENCOURAGE them. As I posted earlier, it's a ship of refugees and misfits. We've got a pair of orphans, we've got a half-orc (and a PC who HATES orcs), we've got a family with young children, we've got a mute, we've got a perpetually drunk hadozee (with artificer levels!), we've got a jazz band, we've got a shy ex-con who's now dating our PC druid. Our game is more based on One Piece than LotR, and we like it that way. :smallbiggrin:

Faulty
2009-04-25, 01:33 PM
Or break the mizzen mast.

we've got a jazz band

Those are interesting occurances/things to have. Haha. Anyway, what about getting a sister ship? Is that at all possible?

shimmercat
2009-04-25, 01:33 PM
ATM, I'd prefer to keep everyone on the same boat, although as a long-term goal, getting more boats is definitely an option. XD Ships are currently in very high demand in our world (due to 3 different countries performing naval escalation in preparation of a coming war), so it would be hard to find one for sale, and we're in a big of a time crunch so we don't have time to make our own.

snoopy13a
2009-04-25, 01:36 PM
The followers are RP fodder, and this is a very RP-oriented group. For the first story arc of the game, the crew of the ship didn't have names and personalities. For the second arc, we decided to try something different and they ALL do. It has been an amazing, TOTAL success. The game has gotten 1000x better since we gave the crew names and lives and their own goals.

Give people lives, and they sometimes do things that are contrary to your interests. Like get pregnant. Or scream at PCs. Or hit on the PCs inappropriately. Or fall overboard. Or break the mizzen mast. Or ask to get married. Or try to get the PCs drunk. Or make rude comments at the PC barbarian that cause the barbarian to attack them and they almost die. These have ALL happened. And they were all AWESOME.

Our goal is not to STOP things like that, it's to ENCOURAGE them. As I posted earlier, it's a ship of refugees and misfits. We've got a pair of orphans, we've got a half-orc (and a PC who HATES orcs), we've got a family with young children, we've got a mute, we've got a perpetually drunk hadozee (with artificer levels!), we've got a jazz band, we've got a shy ex-con who's now dating our PC druid. Our game is more based on One Piece than LotR, and we like it that way. :smallbiggrin:

I guess I forgot the cardinal rule of RPing, having fun :smallbiggrin:

Sorry about that. Also, I'm sorry for being a bit flippant. I wasn't trying to be offensive (I know it takes two to tango) but I did certainly come across as callous.

As a solution, just work with your DM to homebrew extra magical cabins.

wadledo
2009-04-25, 01:39 PM
I LOVE the island idea too, it's just not possible with our current resources. BUT AW MAN WHEN WE GET EPIC.

1. Have your paladin find an evil cult/something that's based on an island.
2. Say, "OMG! We have to stop them!"
3. ????????????????
4. Profit

Or better yet, just find a small (less than a mile across) island that doesn't have any inhabitants, cast a few spells that determine if anything bads going to happen/has happened on it(the druid list has quite a few, though a wizard focused in Divination would work better), and build a small stockade along with some hide-aways(hidden caves through Disintegrate, Rope Trick as mentioned, etc, etc) a fair enough distance away to maintain safety.
keep a few spellcasters with scrolls of sending around, so that if anything bad happens you'll know about it, and make it somewhat known that your looking for family oriented refugees(You said there was a war going on, so they shouldn't be hard to find).

Talic
2009-04-25, 01:41 PM
Clever use of spells?

Mass Inflict Moderate Wounds, on the Followers.

Those that live, continue to be followers.
Space problem solved.

EDIT: Alternately, Make boots of reverse gravity! Now you have twice as many floors!

wadledo
2009-04-25, 01:42 PM
Clever use of spells?

Mass Inflict Moderate Wounds, on the Followers.

Those that live, continue to be followers.
Space problem solved.

Wellllllllllll, someone hasn't been reading anything the OP has been saying.
>.> <.<

Ravens_cry
2009-04-25, 01:44 PM
Do you have an arcane spell caster?
Well, do some research. Like a Clown Car like spell that holds more people but, has more limitations, like it can only be used aboard ships.
Alternatively, maybe you can commission another ship, instead of just buying one. If your having trouble with the local authorities about use of strategic materials during a war, see if you can get letters of marque from one (or more :smallbiggrin:) sides, to bargain for the use of materials. This has risks all it's own, your followers are going to be put in harms way, but your adventurers, this is going to happen anyway.

Talic
2009-04-25, 01:47 PM
Wellllllllllll, someone hasn't been reading anything the OP has been saying.
>.> <.<

Hey! At least it was creative!

Alternately, partitions and a bunch of Permanent Reduce Person spells... Though the name, "The Lollipop Guild" was taken about 50 years ago.

shimmercat
2009-04-25, 01:49 PM
<3 for snoopy -- thanks for understanding! I really appreciate the apology.


Clever use of spells?

Mass Inflict Moderate Wounds, on the Followers.

Those that live, continue to be followers.
Space problem solved.
:smalleek: OH GOD MY LEADERSHIP SCORE. Not to mention the Atonement after my god drops me like a hot potato....

Edit: Raven, we actually DO have letters of marque from a country named Whelan, believe it or not! We're just on the opposite side of the world from Whelan, and headed even further away. XD We do not, however, have an arcane caster, other than a cohort artificer. We've got a couple that owe us a few favors, though... same problem about the other side of the world, though. We've got Sending, but... just seems awkward.

Iku Rex
2009-04-25, 01:49 PM
The best "official" solution I can think of is the Hole of Hiding stronghold component, from Stronghold Builder's Guidebook. It's a permanent rope trick. You can fit 8 people in it. 3000 gp. Not a lot of room, but it might help a little, and they're great for smuggling.


A more cheesy approach would be to buy enveloping pits (3600 gp) from the MIC. They're meant to be used as traps, but they're basically portable holes, only five times bigger and much cheaper.http://i32.tinypic.com/2efoq6x.jpg Not a good place to raise a family, but you can use them for cargo.

Faulty
2009-04-25, 02:00 PM
EDIT: Alternately, Make boots of reverse gravity! Now you have twice as many floors!

That was actually pretty funny.

Jack_Simth
2009-04-25, 02:25 PM
I LOVE the island idea too, it's just not possible with our current resources. BUT AW MAN WHEN WE GET EPIC.
Most islands are actually not inhabited - but this is due primarily to a lack of a ready supply of fresh water. Find an island without fresh water, check to make sure it's not inhabited, mount a few Decanters of Endless Water at a convenient location, and set them on Gyser mode. Instant fresh water. You even get a session or two of exploring an island. At 12th, you can even use Divine Bisection to find one, assuming you've got a Cleric in the party (Commune is Cleric-5 spell).

Olo Demonsbane
2009-04-25, 02:37 PM
And a scroll of permanency and a scroll of teleportation circle aren't that expensive.

10,125 gp for the permanency and
04,825 gp for the teleportation for a total of
14,950 gp.

Thats just a little over 1 rope trick item.

The Glyphstone
2009-04-25, 02:51 PM
Keep in mind that with an item or scroll (or caster) of (probably Widened) Fabricate, building your own ship is no longer a question of time and materials, but gold and materials(so gold and more gold). A suitably high-level caster (if you can find one) can take a giant heap of beams and metal bits and whip up an entire new ship for you in a minute or two. Granted, if raw materials for ships are in as short supply as the ships themselves, it's more difficult, but then you're just forced into finding someone who can cast True Creation - thus making your endline gold and more gold and even more gold, but you still get your ship at the end of this.

What level are we talking about, anyways?

BRC
2009-04-25, 03:13 PM
Step one is to talk with the DM. What you're doing here isn't exactly game breaking, so I wouldn't be surprised if your DM says "Sure, here, there's an old wizard on a nearby island who knows how to add some extradimensional decks to a ship, he'll do it if you pay him/get a macguffin for him". Just houserule it in.

Also, from now on, recruit Gnomes and Halflings as followers. They take up less room.

Edit: Also, concerning the Teleportation-circle private island, it's an awesome idea I highly recommend. Just remember, you'll need two circles, one to get to the island from the ship, and vise-versa.

shimmercat
2009-04-25, 03:33 PM
12th level, currently. It's a custom world, and a lot of technologies/magics are being researched by the citizens of the world. The Theumerge (sp?) and Shifters both fall under this category, as do lots of other things we may not know about.

Party:
Dieder (NG/CG cleric of the Wandering Star, which is much like Fharlagnan mechanics-wise, although it is generally considered a cult by the rest of the world. The Wandering Star attracts lots of idealistic teenagers and people who have no where else to go, hence, the refugees. Dieder's the captain, and the one with the leadership feat. Domains: Travel and Luck. My character)

Simon (CN Rogue 10/Urban Ranger 2)

Puku (CN Barbarian/a bunch of crazy PrCs. Has a Mark of Justice because she kept attacking teammates in fits of rage. Wants to get to our next destination AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE, so wouldn't be happy AT ALL with delays to, say, build another ship)

Murata (NG Druid/Elemental Savant. Air-based. Is in a relationship with one of Dieder's followers. Dieder didn't know this and asked her on a date, Murata didn't realize it was a romantic date and accepted. Hilarity ensued, and Dieder got his heart broken. :c Part of the reason I wanted the extra space in the first place was so that Dieder could get Murata and Ben their own room, as a peace offering)

Grigoriy (LG shark-riding paladin)


Resources:

Bansh (Dieder's hadozee artificer cohort, so he's lvl 10. Our bosun and generally takes care of the crew when we are in battle)

Henri (epic level transmuter we helped out in our first story arc. Loves us, but is very, very busy and very, very far away)

Poitionne (minor wizard god. We saved his life -- kinda -- so he owes us a favor, but lets keep that favor under our hats until we REALLY need it)


...not that I think anyone cares XD

BRC
2009-04-25, 03:38 PM
12th level, currently. It's a custom world, and a lot of technologies/magics are being researched by the citizens of the world. The Theumerge (sp?) and Shifters both fall under this category, as do lots of other things we may not know about.

Party:
Dieder (NG/CG cleric of the Wandering Star, which is much like Fharlagnan mechanics-wise, although it is generally considered a cult by the rest of the world. The Wandering Star attracts lots of idealistic teenagers and people who have no where else to go, hence, the refugees. Dieder's the captain, and the one with the leadership feat. Domains: Travel and Luck. My character)

Simon (CN Rogue 10/Urban Ranger 2)

Puku (CN Barbarian/a bunch of crazy ****. Has a Mark of Justice because she kept attacking teammates in fits of rage. Wants to get to our next destination AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE, so wouldn't be happy AT ALL with delays to, say, build another ship)

Murata (NG Druid/Elemental Savant. Air-based. Is in a relationship with one of Dieder's followers. Dieder didn't know this and asked her on a date, Murata didn't realize it was a romantic date and accepted. Hilarity ensued, and Dieder got his heart broken. :c Part of the reason I wanted the extra space in the first place was so that Dieder could get Murata and Ben their own room, as a peace offering)

Grigoriy (LG shark-riding paladin)


Resources:

Bansh (Dieder's hadozee artificer cohort, so he's lvl 10. Our bosun and generally takes care of the crew when we are in battle)

Henri (epic level transmuter we helped out in our first story arc. Loves us, but is very, very busy and very, very far away)

Poitionne (minor wizard god. We saved his life -- kinda -- so he owes us a favor, but lets keep that favor under our hats until we REALLY need it)


...not that I think anyone cares XD
First, talk to your DM about options that don't involve paying oodles of gold for a Rope Trick. I mean, Poitionne could probably help you, either because you cash in your favor, or because you do another favor for him in exchange. And If I was the DM I would say "You hear about some pirates having kidnapped a group of magical researchers". You rescue the researchers, and they teach your Artificer Monkey how to build extradimensional decks. DM's, especially fun-loving ones, have a habit of finding cool ways to fulfill unsual player needs.

So yeah, step one is to make your DM aware that the group would very much like to get more room on the ship.

Greg
2009-04-25, 03:49 PM
Ask your DM to render your old ship unusable. Then you can buy/acquire a new one with enough room - could be a quest/arc in that.

Prime32
2009-04-25, 03:51 PM
See if your DM will let you cast a hallow (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/hallow.htm) spell on the ship tied to reduce person.

Alternatively, take the Landlord feat and designate the ship as your stronghold. Screw the crafting rules, you have feat-based money! There's a party of musicians at Brilliant Gameologists who have an airship powerful enough to destroy the world at level 10, due to tons of additions from the Stronghold Builder's Handbook and crazy-optimised followers (There are about half a dozen PCs, all of whom have both Landlord and Leadership, and one is also a thrallherd). If there are "rooms of turn anyone who enters into a fanatical follower" I'm sure you can fid something in that book to give you more room.

Mephit
2009-04-25, 03:51 PM
*wonders what happens when you start casting stuff like Reduce Person on a pregnant 13-year-old* :smalltongue:

How responsible does your character think it is to have 13-year old with him on the adventure? :smallamused:

d13
2009-04-25, 04:22 PM
1) Get a Wizard
2) Make him research a custom spell "Enlarge... Ship? Vehicle? Thing?" (instead of enlarge person).
3) Get that Wizard to cast said spell, along with a Permanency one.

Done! You have your own ship, but bigger! xD

shimmercat
2009-04-25, 04:25 PM
He's CG! His idea of "responsibility" is to put a Mark of Justice on the barbarian to keep her from killing his followers. XD

DM was consulted before I even posted the thread, as the DM is my husband. XD He's not a big fan of 3rd ed stuff, so the whole Strongholds book is out. To quote: "I've compared it to SW (which we use frequently, as it is a naval game) and it's obviously obsolete now -- it does all the same things, but really overpowered."

The d20 Modern stuff, though, may be an option, as the game is more at the technology level of the age of exploration (guns, cannons, lots of sailing ships) rather than the typical fantasy middle ages.

Oh, and I should mention that this is something MY CHARACTER wants -- not the party! So whole quests and calling in favors owed to the whole party are kinda out of the question. :smallwink:

Edit: d13, now I just need to find my very own wizard, to keep forever and ever! XD

Quincunx
2009-04-25, 05:50 PM
So reducing the number of dependents is absolutely out of the question, because reducing the number of people to (let me try to get the right tone here) omg have fun with by toying with their lives like living dolls SQUEEEEE *clap hands*dance!*jiggle*jiggle*jiggle*concuss!*--

¤(%! Ow. I swear, going braless anime-style gets less practical with every passing year. Now where was I?

Offloading some people into a new settlement will let you go back and toy with them at your leisure and yet keep them out of the hazards of battle where the RP might go heavy and moralistic; I do think it's a better solution than expanding the boat to keep them beside you in comfort, which is in turn preferable to lowering conditions to wartime austerity. Of course, that doesn't solve the problem before you find said settlement site. Would it be too much to procure several rowboats and summon or tame creatures to pull them along, matching their speed to your caravel? Rowboat travel would be a privilege in calmer weathers and a punishment in storms. They would not be reserved for couples, or even more of your followers, in the hope of a private residence, would turn up pregnant.

[EDIT: Alternately, just read the post below mine, by someone who has more than passing familiarity with the rules of the game you're playing. It makes the mental image of a herd of happy celestial dolphins tugging your temporary quarters along more feasible.]

Lycanthromancer
2009-04-25, 05:51 PM
Have the artificer use fabricate on a few tons of trees to turn them into a few ginormous wooden blocks, then use shrink item (and permanency) to turn them into tiny wooden blocks, then take the shrunken lumber, and have him use fabricate (and take 10 on his Crafting checks) to make a dozen, 100% functional, scale-model ships that're identical to yours (should take only a few rounds), then toss them out in the water and have him dismiss shrink item.

For less than 10 minutes' worth of work, you now have a fleet of fully-functional ships that you can shrink down to 1/4000 size (and then blow back up) at will.

Asheram
2009-04-25, 06:09 PM
Well, Could be abused ad nausem, but a pair of differently sized Ring Gates could do it if you invoke the "rule of cool". The "cheap" way of getting permanent size changes.

And beside, there Must be a rule somewhere for "Magical smugglers holds"

Ascension
2009-04-25, 06:16 PM
Here's a crazy thought... I was thinking of Star Trek: The Next Generation because the Enterprise-D is the only other semi-military vessel I could think of that keeps a contingent of noncombatants on board full-time. That got me to thinking about the detachable saucer section, and that made me wonder this... is there any way you could teleport/plane shift a portion of your ship or the entirety of a sister ship to safety before entering combat? That would take be a nice answer to the concerns about placing your followers in harm's way.

Bayar
2009-04-25, 06:30 PM
You could have Guards and Wards cast upon your extradimensional living quarters for added protection.

shimmercat
2009-04-25, 06:35 PM
There is a spell that can teleport an entire ship, but it's 9th level sorcerer/wizard. Although the DM said that I get it instead of the typical 9th level spell for the Travel domain, because of the setting and character.

Honestly, the issue of non-combatants being on the ship never has REALLY come up. It's something we rather gloss over, partially because our goals aren't along the lines of "find and defeat the evil megalowizard of evilness!" and are more like "let's go visit the elves to see if they have heard of this artifact!" The DM doesn't like dark games, and lots of our sessions are along the lines of "We go to a themepark and the dinosaurs get loose!" Is this really that different from what other people do?


So reducing the number of dependents is absolutely out of the question, because reducing the number of people to (let me try to get the right tone here) omg have fun with by toying with their lives like living dolls SQUEEEEE *clap hands*dance!*jiggle*jiggle*jiggle*concuss!*--

¤(%! Ow. I swear, going braless anime-style gets less practical with every passing year. Now where was I?
People really do seem to have a hard time with the idea of a lighthearted game around here, don't they? :smallannoyed: The crew comes with us because 1) they are needed to man the ship and 2) the players and DM want them to come with us and they ARE NOT REAL PEOPLE. What is RP, if not playing with imaginary dolls? I'm not really sure what I did to deserve such a snarky post. Is it the heavy use of emoticons, or what? Because I mentioned that we do have romance, etc in the game? I dunno.

You know, one thing has become clear -- I don't think that the spell to do what I want actually exists. I may have to do a little homebrew, I do think. In the meantime, I think I'm going to just use the Rope Trick. Thanks, everyone!

Draken
2009-04-25, 06:46 PM
I will endorse finding yourselves an empty island, building a settlement, maybe even making a fort there. Life on a boat is cool and all but I am wondering how your pregnant NPCs aren't going into fits of vomit and hormonal Mighty Rage/Crushing Despair already.

You have a cleric and a druid. Commune and Commune with Nature make finding an island and determining if it is useable (inhabitable) should be a matter of two spell slots.

And a trip 'round the world, maybe.

And possibly killing some wild monsters. Or taming them, when possible.

Quellian-dyrae
2009-04-25, 06:46 PM
What about hiring a caster to cast/purchasing or acquiring a scroll of Limited Wish? I mean, the thing you're trying to do is hardly game-breaking and seems within the "power level" of Limited Wish, you said your DM is okay with doing this, and it's still limited enough that it's not like the DM would be handing you a game breaker (I mean, if you had a wizard in your party, you'd be getting access to it next level). If I recall correctly, cost is 3,775 for the scroll, 2,410 for hiring a caster.

If acquiring such a thing wouldn't be easy...I don't have the book, so I may be wrong, but can't artificers like, basically create items of spells up to a level higher than a wizard of their level can cast, or something? Could your artificer create such a scroll if you toughed it out for a level?

shimmercat
2009-04-25, 06:53 PM
What about hiring a caster to cast/purchasing or acquiring a scroll of Limited Wish? I mean, the thing you're trying to do is hardly game-breaking and seems within the "power level" of Limited Wish, you said your DM is okay with doing this, and it's still limited enough that it's not like the DM would be handing you a game breaker (I mean, if you had a wizard in your party, you'd be getting access to it next level). If I recall correctly, cost is 3,775 for the scroll, 2,410 for hiring a caster.

If acquiring such a thing wouldn't be easy...I don't have the book, so I may be wrong, but can't artificers like, basically create items of spells up to a level higher than a wizard of their level can cast, or something? Could your artificer create such a scroll if you toughed it out for a level?

....We might just have a winner here. We've never used any sort of Miracle or Wish before, so we didn't even think of it. Is it really that cheap for a scroll? Wow. My husband/DM seems cool with the idea, too.

The artificer can't make it, but I could acquire it.

lesserarchangel
2009-04-25, 07:29 PM
I like the idea of having at least some of your followers, and whatever supplies you don't need often, at an island base. Not that expensive at 12th level, as others have noted.

If that isn't enough and your DM will allow it, there is an item in the Eberron setting which will solve your space problem. Quoting from the 'Whispers of the Vampire's Blade' adventure:

"The Hiding Place ... the equivalent of a huge bag of holding. A locker on the cargo deck is larger on the inside that the outside, able to hold 15000 pounds and a volume of up to 2500 cubic feet."

They don't give the price of this, but it should be ~25000 gp per unit, and makes your ship ten times bigger on the inside than on the outside - just remember to leave the hatches ajar, unless your crew doesn't need to breath. This is cheaper in the long run than Rope Trick, but wishing may be easier. You could start installing planar gates, but that's a lot of cash. On the other hand, then you could carry the entire island on board.

I really like the sound of your campaign - dungeon-grinding gets boring awfully fast.

OverWilliam
2009-04-25, 08:03 PM
Shimmercat, if it helps at all, I completely see where you're coming from, and I also now have a red mark on my forehead from repeatedly *facedesk!*-ing every time someone new comes in and 'solves' your problem by doing the exact thing you're trying to avoid. :smallsigh:

I am completely on board with you (no pun intended... or maybe so? :smallbiggrin:) about making "poor"/"wasteful" Roll-play decisions for the sake of magnifying the Role-play. Allow me to also say that... I really, really wish I could join your gaming group! It sounds SO awesome! *cry* :smalltongue:

I think that really the only way you're going to be able to fix your problem the way you want it fixed is to Homebrew. There are a few isolated fixes to the problem, but I think most of them will be either too expensive or not a great fit for what you want (and often both!). Sure you could use rope trick... But it's not really what you want, I can tell. However I'm sure you've already considered homebrew and it has been turned down, for some reason, probably because you're not sure how you would price such a thing, and you would prefer to have something real without having to deal with the ambiguity of whether or not it's fair. Even so, however, I really think you'll be happiest with the end results if you custom-tailor it to your own situation.

I have in my mind the image of a Staircase on the ship (which, as I'm sure you know, is completely ludicrous, if you know anything about realistically sized real-world ships!) that leads down into another whole deck of extra-dimensional space, and then down again to the deck beneath it. From the outside the staircase looks continuous from step to step all the way from deck 1 to deck 2, but in reality it stops at deck 1.5 on the way down. :smallwink:

Kyouhen
2009-04-25, 08:13 PM
I have two possible ideas. First, get bags of holding and bottles of air. :smallbiggrin:

The second I think would be a little more entertaining. I saw alot of people recommend simply shrinking the people. Why stop there? I vote for polymorphing them! Set up a polymorph trap at the bottom of the ladder/stairs/whatever that leads into the ship to turn whoever triggers it into a rat or squirrel or lizard or something. Set up a second trap at the top that dispels the polymorph. Anyone who goes into the ship will immediately be turned into a species that's a little more spacially friendly, and when they leave the ship they turn back to normal!

Dervag
2009-04-25, 08:21 PM
Buying another ship would be a last, last, LAST resort.Buying an expensive spell would probably be a lot more expensive than buying another ship. Although buying enough magic to turn your charming little Renaissance-vintage caravel into an oceangoing TARDIS does have some appeal.


Build an addition, since you're so sentimental.

You could make your ship a bit like an iceberg, little on top, LOTS more on bottom. :smalltongue:That does not make for a seaworthy ship.


One other option could be to conquor your own private island, set up living spaces on there, and then use a Permanancied Teleportation Circle so that no one sleeps on the ship. Similar things could be done with unlimited Ring Gates or a Well of Many Worlds.I second the "private island" idea.

If you're operating on your own, having a friendly harbor in a place not known to the world at large could be a great advantage. Especially since you seem to be gathering a small army of followers, some of whom do not belong aboard ship (like a too-young teenage girl who's going to be giving birth soon).
____


God, I sound like such a prude. XD

I LOVE the island idea too, it's just not possible with our current resources. BUT AW MAN WHEN WE GET EPIC.Surely you have enough resources to found a 'pirates' cove' type settlement on an uninhabited island?

If not, find an inhabited but remote island, and build up a friendly relation with the natives. It's not quite as good as having your own island, but it comes close.

In a world with the medieval, Renaissance, or Age-of-Sail flavor you've implied, there will be a LOT of islands that are terra incognita as far as your enemies are concerned. Founding your own community is a perfectly reasonable thing to do.

Just make sure you set things up well enough that your colony doesn't wind up becoming another Roanoke.
____

When you're epic you don't have to conquer, settle, or ally with islands. You make your own islands.
______


Edit: Raven, we actually DO have letters of marque from a country named Whelan, believe it or not! We're just on the opposite side of the world from Whelan, and headed even further away. XDAh... how does that work again?

Salt_Crow
2009-04-25, 08:44 PM
How about buying more ships to create your own fleet?

Lycanthromancer
2009-04-25, 08:50 PM
Find your own island, and BUILD your own boats. Just make sure there are plenty of trees.

We can detail how to do it all. The only money will be in the setup of a teleportation circle.

OverWilliam
2009-04-25, 08:58 PM
How about buying more ships to create your own fleet?

*facedesk*

Ravens_cry
2009-04-25, 09:11 PM
Edit: Raven, we actually DO have letters of marque from a country named Whelan, believe it or not! We're just on the opposite side of the world from Whelan, and headed even further away. XD We do not, however, have an arcane caster, other than a cohort artificer. We've got a couple that owe us a few favors, though... same problem about the other side of the world, though. We've got Sending, but... just seems awkward.
Maybe there is a conclave, harbor, small scale colony with ties to that country? Or remember I said "or more". Find a country that doesn't know who you work for, or is at least nominally allied with Whelan. Maybe combine the magic and the mundane by having wizards speed up the labor, by say casting haste on the workers. Or don't. Just splurge, though not as much as most magic, and buy another ship. Or like Quellian-dyrae said, limited wish yourselves another ship.
To quote, I think, Jack Sparrow, "You could be <drunken pause> Commodore." Ye Olde TARDIS is great, but so is having your own freaking FLEET.

Draken
2009-04-25, 09:12 PM
Ah... how does that work again?

Simply put, by attacking merchant ships of other nations, they aren't being criminals, they are causing diplomatic havoc.

Or rather, they ARE being criminals, but just for that specific nation that owns the ship. To everyone else, they are legalized soldiers* in the service of their nation**, tactically focused on denying the enemy of it's resources and supply lines***.

*: Mercenaries.
**: Employer.
***: Robbers.

Kyouhen
2009-04-25, 09:13 PM
*facedesk*

You might want to put a pillow down. Or get a nerf desk. I don't think you're likely to stop doing that anytime soon. :smalltongue:

d13
2009-04-25, 09:17 PM
d13, now I just need to find my very own wizard, to keep forever and ever! XD

Well, I think you can handle that (?).

C'mon! It's D&D! Wizards are... Like... EVERYWHERE! (Bonus if you're playing Forgotten Realms xD)

Lycanthromancer
2009-04-25, 09:18 PM
Having a fleet of ships (with the Good Fortune as the flagship) would be awesome.

Find an island, train the natives as highly-trained, deadly marines, and flood your ships through the teleportation circles with them.

Makes boarding parties worth attending.

Just watch out for the spiked (gauntlet) punch...

[edit] Nautical speech has so many innuendos inherent in it that it's not even funny. I'd so be making a foulmouthed, dirty ol' druid for this campaign.

shimmercat
2009-04-25, 09:25 PM
Not interested in a fleet ATM. XD

I've worked out a solution with my husband/DM that is half homebrew/half Rope Trick and am now trying to sell it to the other players that it would be awesome if their characters got their own rooms. Harder sell than I thought they would be. XD Dieder is going to have such an awesome, tricked-out ship.

THE ISLAND THING IS REALLY COOL AND WE PROBABLY WILL DO IT EVENTUALLY, THOUGH.

OverWilliam
2009-04-25, 09:31 PM
You might want to put a pillow down. Or get a nerf desk. I don't think you're likely to stop doing that anytime soon. :smalltongue:

Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
(Oldmeme is old)


Not interested in a fleet ATM. XD

I've worked out a solution with my husband/DM that is half homebrew/half Rope Trick and am now trying to sell it to the other players that it would be awesome if their characters got their own rooms. Harder sell than I thought they would be. XD Dieder is going to have such an awesome, tricked-out ship.

THE ISLAND THING IS REALLY COOL AND WE PROBABLY WILL DO IT EVENTUALLY, THOUGH.

Wait... it's YOUR ship, it's YOUR money, that YOU'RE spending, for THEIR benefit... and you still have to sell them on it? :smallconfused:

Sofaking
2009-04-25, 09:35 PM
Well I didn't see anyone say it so I'll just go with the obvious Wood Shape (I assume the ship is wood) is a 2nd level Druid spell. Don't use the spell to create sips, just use it to expand parts of the hull. Obvously you would want to consult with some sort of high level druid and shipbuilders if you are worried about ripping the ship apart. But I think this could work.

Kyouhen
2009-04-25, 09:36 PM
Not interested in a fleet ATM. XD

I've worked out a solution with my husband/DM that is half homebrew/half Rope Trick and am now trying to sell it to the other players that it would be awesome if their characters got their own rooms. Harder sell than I thought they would be. XD Dieder is going to have such an awesome, tricked-out ship.

THE ISLAND THING IS REALLY COOL AND WE PROBABLY WILL DO IT EVENTUALLY, THOUGH.

I still vote for the polymorph idea. Wouldn't even need to sell them on it. Have it installed while they're asleep if they decide to be difficult about it. :smalltongue:

shimmercat
2009-04-25, 10:12 PM
Wait... it's YOUR ship, it's YOUR money, that YOU'RE spending, for THEIR benefit... and you still have to sell them on it? :smallconfused:

Yup, because it's my ship and my money, but the other characters live on it, and the extra cabins would shift the cabin assignments around. And my original plan (which had RP potential) was actually shot down, and I had to go with a backup without RP potential. Le sigh. I think I worked something out that everyone is fine with, though. The men get their own rooms in the extradimensional space, the girls can continue to sleep 3 in one room, if that's what they want!

Dieder can have lady callers now!

shimmercat
2009-05-02, 07:44 AM
Well.... to everyone who said we should just kill off the followers...

Last night, our little ship got a very unexpected visit from our "end boss" enemy. He took what he wanted, and then cast Weird.

We lost 2 out of 5 PCs, the cohort, and 20 out of 27 followers. The ship went from 33 people to 10 in twelve seconds. And because it is was a death effect that killed them, Raise Dead doesn't work and so my 12-lvl cleric can't bring them back.

Est. cost of revival for the entire ship: over a quarter million gold.

...I don't think we are getting those followers back. :smalleek:

Yeah, this DM has never used a death effect on anyone before. We were not prepared.

Lycanthromancer
2009-05-02, 05:43 PM
Go nab a quick scroll of wish or (preferably) miracle. Carefully worded, it should be able to alter the 'single action' taken in the past to become a misfire, thereby allowing everyone to (potentially) survive.

shimmercat
2009-05-02, 05:59 PM
XD

DM's response: "No."

We couldn't get the scroll, honestly. The world isn't really low-magic, but scrolls above 5th lvl aren't just lying around. Also, rezzing has some special rules in this world that are a bit too complicated to get into here.

Although based on comments by my husband-DM since I made that post, I think he's got something planned for how they are coming back. I just thought certain people would be entertained to hear that the vast majority of our lovely RP NPCs died. (Yes, including the pregnant 13-year-old, AND her lover.)

snoopy13a
2009-05-02, 06:50 PM
Well.... to everyone who said we should just kill off the followers...

Last night, our little ship got a very unexpected visit from our "end boss" enemy. He took what he wanted, and then cast Weird.

We lost 2 out of 5 PCs, the cohort, and 20 out of 27 followers. The ship went from 33 people to 10 in twelve seconds. And because it is was a death effect that killed them, Raise Dead doesn't work and so my 12-lvl cleric can't bring them back.

Est. cost of revival for the entire ship: over a quarter million gold.

...I don't think we are getting those followers back. :smalleek:

Yeah, this DM has never used a death effect on anyone before. We were not prepared.

That scenario seems a little out of place based on your game's tone. It kind of sounds like pirates attacking the Yellow Submarine and killing the Beatles :smalleek:

Waspinator
2009-05-02, 07:26 PM
Wow. Well, it's ugly, but that is one way of solving a space / population problem. Of course, you're not the ones who "solved" it, but still.....

herrhauptmann
2009-05-02, 08:55 PM
I know you said you weren't interested in a fleet, and that your paladin didn't want to steal a ship, also that now many of your followers are dead.

But have you thought of taking down a pirate crew? Their ship would be fast (if your game keeps realism), and you'd be doing 'good' as well.

Could the druid use woodshape to MAKE a new boat, rather than alter the existing one? But the services of Expert levl5 for the day, who is a shipwright (makes ships). Then with his direction, you can craft a new ship identical to the old one, or perhaps even better.

Honestly, I wouldn't have the druid do it him/herself and just copy what is seen. I was also a sailor, and I know that parts of shipbuilding are done very oddly. Like constructing certain pieces separate, then lifting them into place with a giant crane.
http://www5e.biglobe.ne.jp/~vandy-1/C03-367-5.jpg

Teron
2009-05-03, 06:32 AM
It's probably too late or otherwise irrelevant, but weird isn't a death effect. Raise dead would work fine.

I imagine you've already thought of calling in that favour from Poitionne, if that was a viable option?

Talic
2009-05-03, 06:37 AM
Go Waterworld.

Spend months constructing a floating citadel of doom, and staff it with your tasty little plot morsels.

Fizban
2009-05-03, 07:46 AM
Proceeding as if I hadn't joined after everyone died:

I support building a fleet, but if that's not what you want that's fine. Note: magic items that are "bulky" (such as a 100lb statue) cost 1/2 as much, and those tied to something you can't carry with you at all are 1/4 cost. This is used by auto-resetting magic traps and wondrous architecture in the SBG, as well as the Instant Fortress in the DMG (it's almost the same as 1/4 Magnificent Mansion at will).

This means that you should be able to get a bit more than 10 rooms that are 20' by 20' on a side, 10' tall (or standard stronghold spaces, I use them cause they're easy, even if you aren't using the book) for 50,000gp. Even crammed 8 to a room that's enough for 80 people, without rope trick (what is up with that spell? I'm sure it's not meant to be a living space, but that's all it's good for).

Some creative interpretation of fabricate might let you use your old ship and a pile of trees to build a bigger version of the existing ship, which would be kinda cool.

I also support finding a deserted island and setting up a pair of teleportation circles. For housing you could build actual shacks, fabricate shacks, or craft stationary items of secure (or it's 5th level counterpart, hidden) shelter 2/day. The hidden shelter can't even be noticed until they're within 30', so a chain of those with teleport circles inside one is pretty much undetectable, though very expensive.

I normally wouldn't think limited wish could pull it off, but a full blown wish is pretty big overkill just to embiggen a ship, so that could work.

As for killing off everyone with one "haha you lose" spell, I'd say that was seriously uncool, but if they're all coming back it's not as bad. Aside from being totally unnecessary. If they don't, you have a perfect new campaign goal: pirates searching for the enourmous amount of diamonds they need to bring back their extended crew family! Also pointing out that weird isn't a death effect again. Only cuts the cost by half, but that's a lot less diamond.

shimmercat
2009-05-03, 11:11 AM
It's probably too late or otherwise irrelevant, but weird isn't a death effect. Raise dead would work fine.

I imagine you've already thought of calling in that favour from Poitionne, if that was a viable option?
It's rather ambiguous as to whether Weird is a death effect or not. The DM made the call that it is. One of the players (the rogue's, who is one of the PCs that didn't pass their saves) said that he didn't think it was a death effect, and so we looked at it again. Why do you say it's not a death effect? How do you know if something is a death effect or not? According to the SRD entry on death effects (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#deathAttacks), it's when the character gets a fortitude save and if they fail that, they die instantly, which definitely seems to fit Weird and Phantasmal Killer. Death spells and death effects aren't necessarily the same thing, right?

As for this event not fitting the feel of the game, I played up the silly aspects a bit and played down the serious ones in this thread, in order to help people understand that complete realism isn't our goal. The villain that did this is reoccurring and basically our ULTIMATE EVIL for the campaign. I was shocked that it happened, but not to the point where I thought it was out of place. Mostly, I was just shocked that my gentle husband/DM would actually KILL ANYONE on purpose. Even his villains tend to get "sent to jail." XD

Reviving the PCs isn't an issue; we're due for a level up quite soon and then my cleric can handle it. It's just the massive number of crew. And how do we pick who to revive first? The PC druid's boyfriend? The pregnant woman? The parents of the adolescent that passed his will save and watched his whole family die screaming? The cohort? We've got some hard decisions to make. :smalleek:

(It sounds like we're going for the PCs and then the family, based on comments from other players.)

Sallera
2009-05-03, 03:41 PM
Compare the descriptors, I think.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/slayLiving.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/destruction.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wailOfTheBanshee.htm
all explicitly have the death descriptor.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/weird.htm, on the other hand, just has the fear descriptor, and Phantasmal Killer's description states that they die from fear... I believe that's how you tell.

edit: Also, the SRD entry just says that most death effects are fort-save-or-die, not that fort-save-or-die necessarily means death effect.

shimmercat
2009-05-03, 04:10 PM
Hrm. So my DM asks: "What is the difference between death spells and death effects?"

It certainly would make our lives much, much easier if spells that have a death effect must be death spells. I could immediately raise the two dead PCs, to start with, as we've already learned to carry some diamonds on the ship. I can see his point of view, though -- it's strange that they would specifically say that Raise Dead can't be used on creatures killed by a "death effect" and then never properly define the term. Phantasmal Killer, after all, does have the final effect of death.

Edit: DM points me to Death Ward (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/deathWard.htm), which specifically says that it makes the subject immune to both death effects and death spells. (Please convince him that this is not a death effect. XD )

wadledo
2009-05-03, 04:19 PM
My understanding of it has always been that Death spells are usually necromancy, and have some aspect of "OOOOOOO! I steal your soul!" to them.

Also, it says that Death Ward protects against death attacks, and since it would not have protected against Weird, you can say quite honestly that it is not a death effect.

Edit: Drat, lets look at exactly what Death ward prevents, shall we?:smallamused:

The subject is immune to all death spells, magical death effects, energy drain, and any negative energy effects.

1. Death Spells: I.e. spells with the death subtype.
Is weird a death subtype spell? No.

2. Magical Death Effects: Stuff like Spell-like abilities with the Death subtype and other similar things that technically wouldn't go under the above go here. No.

3. Energy Drain: Definitely not. That would involve stuff like level loss and negative levels. No.

4. Negative Energy Effects: Weird has nothing to do with negative energy, so it can't protect against it. No.

So sadly enough, Death Ward does nothing to prevent Weird, meaning that they are in two entirely categories.

shimmercat
2009-05-03, 05:01 PM
I think why he was interested in Death Ward is that it mentions death spells and death effects SEPARATELY, implying that one does not necessarily equal the other. Because Weird/Phantasmal Killer have the fort-save-or-die effect, then they are death effects, even though they are not death SPELLS. They cause instant death, thus are death effects.

....OR HEY, he can read over my shoulder and say that he's convinced! Awesome, Raise Dead will work now! :smallbiggrin: Makes the lives of the 3 remaining PCs much, much easier.

Randel
2009-05-03, 05:19 PM
Here's an idea:

If you are going to be using magic on the level necessary to turn your ship into a TARDIS, you could probably have several castings of Wall of Iron and Fabricate to make your own metal battleship.

Once its made of metal, adding extentions to the ship would just be a case of welding more rooms to the sides. As long as the volume of the ship is sufficiently greater than its mass it should float with no problems.

If it starts to sink then quickly make it airtight and get a Bottle of Air, a permanent teleportation circle to your private island could let you move heavy stuff out of you new submarine until its once again light enough to float, after that just weld more rooms to the sides.

Propulsion could be made by either using some sort of permanent magic item of control water that pushes the ship along or with some kind of steampunk boiler and propellers or paddle wheels. The boiler could be fueled with a permanent Wall of Fire or Heat Metal so it doesn't use fuel (and once you've got the mechanisms that turn propellers you can hook up all sorts of mechanized gizmos). The control water one might be better to prevent giant squids from trying to jam up your propellers.


With a metal-hulled airtight boat, invaders are going to have a hell of a time trying to board your vessel. Get a battering ram on the front and you can now ram wooded ships with ease... melt some silver coins and alloy them with the ram and your ship can now bypass the damage reduction of werewolves and some other evil outsiders.

If you're worried about this no longer being your ship... well, if your ship happens to get smashed to pieces in a battle or due to accidental mishaps while docked... then if you collect enough of the pieces to integrate into your new floating battleship of doom then who's going to argue that its not the same ship?

Oh, also add plenty of spikes to the outside of the metal hull to better deal with any squids that try to attack you.

wadledo
2009-05-03, 05:25 PM
@Randel: A bit late out of the gate there, buddy.:smalltongue:

@shimmercat: I'm going to assume that you DM said the weird wasn't a death effect from reading my post?:smallamused:
Then you're welcome.:smallbiggrin:

shimmercat
2009-05-03, 05:52 PM
Wadledo: I think it was mostly the fact that everyone AGREED that Weird was not a death effect, but your post certainly helped. XD

Although now he's saying that this majorly screws up his plans for the next few sessions and he might just say that it DOES count as a death effect by DM fiat. :( We have quite a few custom rules in this world, so it wouldn't be unprecedented. I think he's got a plan, to get our people back, though, no matter what.

Triaxx
2009-05-03, 08:55 PM
A) Accursed Rule Zero... ;)

B) I'd have just said convert the cargo space into quarters and use bags of holding for the space. Glad you found a plan that works though.

Fizban
2009-05-06, 08:31 PM
*Rechecks forum rules*

Necromancy says page 3 and more than 3 months old, so I'll continue:

The answer you're looking for is in the Arms and Equipment Guide: for a very small fee (especially compared to the price of the ship), you can convert cargo space to living space at a rate of 1 ton= 2 people. Considering that if you use magic to produce your food, and aren't carrying any cargo, you should have over 100 tons of extra cargo space, you should have plenty of room for everyone on board. Unless you've already done that, in which case you're screwed. (Since the DM seems to have a plan to bring the crew back, you're still going to need more room later, so I consider my post valid. Also: I like the sound of my own text).

shimmercat
2009-05-07, 03:47 PM
Oh, I definitely necroed my own thread to post about how we were slaughtered by Weird. :XD

That's a really good idea, actually, converting cargo space to living space. We do carry some food (as my cleric could make enough food/water for everyone, but it would be stretching it) and some small cargo, but the rest can definitely be converted to living space.

This is one of the first logic- (not magic-) based suggestions that I really like. XD