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Obscurejones
2009-04-25, 11:38 PM
What in the opinion of these boards would be the ultimate rapid fire build at eighth level in 3.5? I need to put the fear of god into some players and I feel dakka is what the moment calls for.

Anything up for grabs, damage not an issue, just rate of fire.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2009-04-25, 11:58 PM
Getting more than three or four attacks at that level will be very difficult, and I doubt this is enough to really scare your players. About the worst I can think of is a Thri-Keen with three Longbows, Multi-weapon Fighting, and Manyshot, although I'm not sure that's possible or really fitting.

I'd personally probably just reflavor something to have it firing a swarm of projectiles rather than a single one (although still using the rules for firing one, or maybe replacing the attack roll with a Reflex save for half damage) or revert to the old 3.0 Shuriken rules allowing you to attack three times for 1 damage each...and then using feats or houserules to allow 12+ attacks in a round.

tyckspoon
2009-04-25, 11:58 PM
Monk 5/Ranger 2/Master Thrower 1 making a Flurry Rapid Shot attack of shuriken with the Palm Throw trick from Master Thrower. Two attacks from BAB, +1 Flurry, +1 Rapid Shot, doubled up for Palm Throw. 8 projectiles at level 8.. although the range, attack bonus, and damage are all going to suck pretty bad. This guy absolutely needs magical weapons if he's going to do anything other than annoy people with all those throws. (Quick 'n dirty class setup; there is certainly a more efficient way to do it, but it has to have at least one level Monk for the Flurry. Actual Fighter couldn't hurt, since Master Thrower is fairly feat intensive.)

Sinfire Titan
2009-04-26, 12:04 AM
Totemist 20 with the Manticore Belt bound to the Totem Chakra. 1 ranged attack per point of essentia invested in the soulmeld, deals 1d6+1/2 Str(+Sneak Attack, if you've got it). Can easily get anywhere between 1 and 16 attacks at 20th level.


Or the more complicated route: Skarn Totemist 4/Monk 2/Ranger 3/Warblade 1/Spinemeld Warrior 5/War Mind 5 with Improved TWFing and Improved Multiattack. Gets 9 attacks base (4 claws+5 Spine attacks) and can get more through Psionic powers or magic items that grant natural weapons. Add in Polymorph or Alter Self shenanigans and you've got a veritable assault rifle.


And then there's Scout 4/Cloistered Cleric 1/PrC Ranger 15. Casts as a 9th level Cleric, can swap Domains for Devotion feats (Domains are Knowledge, Animal, and Travel), and uses Swift Hunter plus either TWFing or Greater Manyshot to turn enemies into pin cushions.

Edit: 8th level means Totemist 4/Barbarian 2/Totem Rager 2. Girallon Arms FTW!

Sinfire Titan
2009-04-26, 12:07 AM
Monk 5/Ranger 2/Master Thrower 1 making a Flurry Rapid Shot attack of shuriken with the Palm Throw trick from Master Thrower. Two attacks from BAB, +1 Flurry, +1 Rapid Shot, doubled up for Palm Throw. 8 projectiles at level 8.. although the range, attack bonus, and damage are all going to suck pretty bad. This guy absolutely needs magical weapons if he's going to do anything other than annoy people with all those throws. (Quick 'n dirty class setup; there is certainly a more efficient way to do it, but it has to have at least one level Monk for the Flurry. Actual Fighter couldn't hurt, since Master Thrower is fairly feat intensive.)

Monk 5? Why 5? Why not 4 and add in a level of Warblade? Or Monk 2 and 3 levels of Warblade? Or maybe Monk 3 and 2 levels of Fighter (for the extra feats)? Or Monk 3 and 2 levels of the Feat Rogue variant?


Anything is better than Monk 5. It gives you nothing that is worth the stall in BAB, not even the Flurry of Blows improvement (which can be obtained via War Mind+Tashalatora)

Keld Denar
2009-04-26, 12:12 AM
Also, you can't get Palm Throw until Master Thrower5, IIRC. That definitely limits you significantly.

You could use like, a Bard4/Warblade4 build with EWP: Shuriken or Quickdraw (depending if you want Shurikens or Daggers/HandAxes/Clubs/etc). With Quickdraw and TWF, you'd get 5 (6 with Haste) attacks per round, and Dancing Mongoose would increase that to 7 (8 with Haste) attacks every other round. Then you factor in Dragonfire Inspiration damage and your higher rate of fire actually coverts to damage/round rather than just minor blows.

This is the basis of a build I made a while back called Flick the Flaming Dagger Flinger.

Kylarra
2009-04-26, 12:13 AM
You should be a Ranger/Ranger and Dual wield your dual wield (http://www.nuklearpower.com/2009/01/27/episode-1087-exalted-feat/) :smalltongue:

herrhauptmann
2009-04-26, 12:14 AM
Getting more than three or four attacks at that level will be very difficult, and I doubt this is enough to really scare your players. About the worst I can think of is a Thri-Keen with three Longbows, Multi-weapon Fighting, and Manyshot, although I'm not sure that's possible or really fitting.

How can a thri-keen use 3 longbows? Don't they only have 4 arms?
If rate of fire is all you need, how about thrikeen with a repeating crossbow in each hand?

Djinn_in_Tonic
2009-04-26, 12:19 AM
How can a thri-keen use 3 longbows? Don't they only have 4 arms?
If rate of fire is all you need, how about thrikeen with a repeating crossbow in each hand?

Curses. You're right. For some reason I thought they had 6 arms...

chiasaur11
2009-04-26, 12:37 AM
Curses. You're right. For some reason I thought they had 6 arms...

Well, if you gave one a motorized barstool...

The Glyphstone
2009-04-26, 12:42 AM
Insectile Thri-Keen with the Fang of Lloth PrC? That'd be a total of 10 arms to play with...

Talic
2009-04-26, 12:58 AM
Well, You're gonna want a BAB of at least 6.
Rapid shot would be a logical choice.
Haste is another.

At level 8, we have 2 points of BAB that we can lose.

This means that we can go Wiz 3/<BAB Class> 5, and still make our +6.

Accuracy is likely desired, so this level 3 wiz is gonna want Cat's Grace, and a scroll of Haste. Drop the scroll round 1, consider Cat's Grace a prebuff, given its generous duration.

So now, we have 2 shots (base) + 1 (rapid shot) + 1 (haste) = 4.

But we can do better, right? Of course we can.

Take away the bow. Add in Quick Draw, and use Javelins. Add in Two weapon Fighting and Improved Two weapon fighting.

Now we have 2 (base) + 2 (off hand) + 1 (rapid shot) + 1 (haste). 6 attacks. The penalty's bad tho. -2 for rapid shot, -4 for two weapon, and oversized. Add in oversized two weapon fighting...

Now we have a hefty feat requirement.

Human Fighter 2 / Wizard 3 / Warblade 3

1 Feat Base
1 Feat Human
2 Feats Fighter 1 and 2
2 Feats Levels 3 and 6

We need: Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Oversized Two Weapon Fighting.

We have 1 to spare. Let's say, Weapon focus, and call it a day there.

For Maneuvers? Boosts mostly, that add damage to attacks.

For items? Wow factor, give him a belt of battle.

Now, his attacks are at +6 (base) +5(stat) -2 (Rapid shot) -2 (Two weapon Fighting) +1 (Masterwork) = +8(Attack1)/+8(Haste)/+8(Rapid)/+8(Offhand 1)/+3 (Attack 2)/+3 (Offhand 2).

If you use belt of battle, for an extra full round action?

+8/+8/+8/+8/+3/+3 and +8/+8/+8/+8/+3/+3 on round 1.

Not sure if shadowpounce can be used to enhance this style of combat.

Ossian
2009-04-26, 03:58 AM
Haste, as mentioned. Reminds me of that old game, Syndacate (was it a Bullfrog one?) when the Agents activated the stim-packs. One shot and you are one hell of an adrenaline-bubbline jar.

Since you are the DM, here is a piece from Unearthed Arcana for you:

Rage Variant: Whirling Frenzy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#rageVariantWhirlingFrenzy )

A barbarian with this variant form of rage doesn't gain the normal bonuses when he enters a rage. Instead, when a barbarian with whirling frenzy enters a rage, he temporarily gains a +4 bonus to Strength and a +2 dodge bonus to Armor Class and on Reflex saves. While in a whirling frenzy, the barbarian may make one extra attack in a round at his highest base attack bonus, but this attack takes a -2 penalty, as does each other attack made that round. This penalty applies for 1 round, so it also affects attacks of opportunity the barbarian might make before his next action.

Whirling frenzy is otherwise identical to the standard barbarian rage in all other ways. At 11th level (when a standard barbarian gains greater rage), the Strength bonus increases to +6, and the dodge bonus to Armor Class and on Reflex saves increases to +3. At 20th level (when a standard barbarian gains mighty rage), the Strength bonus increases to +8, and the dodge bonus to Armor Class and on Reflex saves increases to +4.

A barbarian using this variant doesn't gain indomitable will at 14th level. Instead, he gains evasion, but only while in a whirling frenzy.

A character can't use whirling frenzy at the same time that he uses any other form of rage (or similar ability).

I guess it is melee only, but if you want to make it ranged...wat the heck, you are the DM, you are the one who makes the rules and your PC are the ones who must run .

Your "ork", so to speak, is out there to put some fear of god in the players, you make him or her frenzy-throw/shoot stuff. Think of him as a gatling-freak who just stands in the middle of all lines of fire and just unloads clip after clip (then make it fantasy, which is a bit lame compared to real autofire weapon, but that will have to do).


EDIT: oh, yeah...what about level 9? One extra feat slot would be nice :)

Talic
2009-04-26, 04:11 AM
I don't see that say anywhere "Melee Attack".

Brutal Throw, apply Str to Thrown Weapon attack bonus.

Orc. 18 base str, 22 after mod. 24 after level adjustments. +7 modifier.

Level 5 Barbarian, Level 3 Wizard. Bull's strength instead of Cat's Grace. Haste Scroll. 13 int, 15 dex.

Two weapon fighting, no improved two weapon.

+6 BAB +9 Str (with bull str) = +15 to hit, +17 in frenzy.

Rapid shot, Haste, whirling two weapon javelin toss!

+11/+11/+11/+11/+11/+6
For 1d8+11 each.

If you have Power Throw as well (do your players use flaws?), you have the option later, of run n gun. If you don't like that, take improved two weapon fighting, and go for +11/+11/+11/+11/+11/+6/+6 (yes, 7 attacks now) with a 50 foot range increment.

Two attacks, power attack for 4, +11 to hit (Whirling frenzy allows for extra attacks without a full attack action, by literal reading) Damage for each? 1d8+15.

EDIT: Note, 15 attacks a round won't mean much to the players if you can't hit, or if the hits are shrugged off.

Bayar
2009-04-26, 04:30 AM
Well, the arrow demon would be an awesome polymorph form for an archeficier. Unfortunately, it is for level 10.


There's many ways to be the archeficer, I'll try to cover the arrow demon variant here.

Race: Sun elf (RoF) +2 int bonus works best with artificer over the other elves to gain longbow proficiency
Feats: Otherworldly (PGtF), Extend spell, persistent spell, Ranged attack feats (point blank shot, rapid shot, precise shot, manyshot, etc)
Spells: Polymorph wand (CL 10, i.e. 8th lvl with wandmastery)- Allows you to turn into an outsider with the otherworldly feat. Which means Arrow demon (MM3), which has things like being able to wield a larger size bow than themselves and use 2 bows at once.
Divine favor/power/righteous might: More damage, much like the cleric archer, persist these spells.
Haste, swift, persistent: One more attack.

You can add more persistable spells like guided shot, hawkeye, etc, but generally speaking you shouldn't be missing and dealing massive damage with those listed above.

PrGo
2009-04-26, 04:47 AM
Insectile creature with Multiweapon Fighting and possibly Improved Multiweapon fighting if you make him full fighter or something.
That makes it 12 attacks per round and if you get him Pounce somehow... OUCH!

EDIT: And if you want to base him on Dex, then get one level of Dervish and use Weapon Finesse with 6 scimitars and maybe Improved Critical. :smallbiggrin:

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-04-26, 04:49 AM
Nonpsionic Thri-Kreen (2 HD, +1 LA), Monk 1/ Soulknife 2/ Soulbow (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060403a&page=2) 2
Point Blank Shot (1), Deflect Arrows (1), Multiweapon Fighting (3), Stunning Fist (3), Wild Talent (4), Weapon Focus: Mind Blade/Arrow (4), Precise Shot (6), Rapid Shot (6)
32-pointbuy: Str 10, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 18, Cha 8

NPC Wealth: Bracers of Armor +2, Ring of Protection +1, Amulet of Natural Armor +1, Cloak of Resistance +1
PC Wealth: add Lesser Bracers of Archery, Gloves of Dex +2, Periapt of Wisdom +2
Mind Arrow Enhancement: Lucky (each arrow can 1/day reroll a missed attack roll, so every initial miss gets a reroll)

(NPC Wealth)
Full Attack: Rapid Shot Mind Arrow +5/+5/+5/+5/+5 ranged, 1d8+4
AC 25 (+4 natural, +4 Monk, +4 Dex, +1 Deflection, +2 Armor) Touch 19, Flat-Footed 21
Fort +5, Reflex +16, Will +16

(PC Wealth)
Full Attack: Rapid Shot Mind Arrow +7/+7/+7/+7/+7 ranged, 1d8+5
AC 27 (+4 natural, +5 Monk, +5 Dex, +1 Deflection, +2 Armor) Touch 21, Flat-Footed 22
Fort +5, Reflex +17, Will +17


If you want to make it really cheesy, give it two flaws (weak-willed and poor reflexes) for Sacred Vow and Vow of Poverty.

golentan
2009-04-26, 04:50 AM
Thri-keen. 2 longbows, Multiweapon Fighting, Rapid Shot, manyshot, and Bracers of tigerclaw (scholar). Make 2 manyshots, then activate Dancing Mongoose to make two more. You have yourself 8 arrows in 6 seconds. Alternatively, pick up rapid reload in there instead of manyshot, and grab youze some hand xbows. You have four arms, so you get 2 attacks with each from your bab with imp. multiweapon fighting, 1 each from rapid shot, and two extra attacks from dancing mongoose. Sure, it's only 1d4 damage a pop, but by my counts that's 14d4 damage. Then take crossbow sniper and and half your dex bonus to damage on each of those 14 attacks. If you've only got an 18 at this point, that's still an extra 28 if everything hits. (okay, so it's unlikely. Everything is at a -4 penalty from normal, except the dancing mongoose (I think)).

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-04-26, 05:00 AM
Nothing can have Improved Multiweapon Fighting (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#improvedMultiweaponFighting) at 8th level, it requires a +9 BAB. Rapid Shot can only ever give you one extra attack, unless you can somehow make multiple full-attack actions in one round.

I really like the Whirling Frenzy javelin thrower, but a few things: Wouldn't Barbarian 6/ Suel Arcanamach 2 be better, if you use the Otyugh Hole to get Iron Will? No need for Quick Draw since even a level 8 NPC can afford Gloves of Endless Javelins. Go wtih a Water Orc (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#racesOfWater) Dragonborn of Bahamut with wings so he can avoid melee easier.

AslanCross
2009-04-26, 05:59 AM
Not to rain on your parade, OP, but are you really sure you want to roll that many attacks?

imp_fireball
2009-04-26, 06:34 AM
How about a golem with an auto-loading function built into its body? It has two heavy repeating crossbows which each have an auto-pull on the lever to load each bolt.

A special function allows it to make additional attacks with these crossbows and to make pulling the lever an immediate action (like a machine gun). Also, since the machine is independant from the golem, the golem wouldn't be making these actions and they'd reserve themselves to the machine - for convenience, the golem is the mount and the machine is essentially its rider (although its built into the golem, so no ride checks are needed).

When it runs out of bolts for a cartridge, its mechanics go through a more lengthy process, churning out another box from its built-in munition-storage chamber - which might take a move action or longer.

The cartridges could also be larger than SRD cartridges for the heavy repeater, but heavier. They could also shoot farther since each repeater is size large.

Essentially, what you have is a golem that can dispense an entire cartridge of bolts from each repeater in a full attack action (or perhaps just five from each since that's an SRD cartridge).

The problem: The repeaters are grafted to the golem in place of its arms, or maybe they're shoulder mounted (so remove them from the golem, and reattaching would take a lot longer). Firing and attacking with its fists are different actions, since one of them involves the golem positioning itself to aim and the other using its slam attack.

It could be an iron golem, but the repeaters would be wooden.

Talic
2009-04-26, 06:35 AM
Probably, Biff. I'm AFB, so I have limited book access. I like Wizard for access to scrolls, the level means haste goes off on a 3+. Now no buffing, yeah.


Problem with Soulbow... Can't it only make 1 bow? The extra arms from Thri Keen are a bit useless in that case.

Gloves of Endless Javelins are nice, I'll grant you. If I was making this a "fear of god" character, though, I'd go with Belt of Battle... Make those attacks double for one round.

If you did endless javelins, you could take travel devotion, though... Which would enable the character to move its movement and still rain the pain...

For 10 rounds.

EDIT:

@Imp: I think the OP was looking for more RAW and less homebrew.

Alternately, he could go with Half ogre, and 1 level of Hulking Hurler. It might not be dakkadakkadakka...

But it would be...
DAKKA

Warhulk can eventually do similar things, to a lesser extent.

imp_fireball
2009-04-26, 06:38 AM
But that is pretty RAW. It even uses weapons in RAW.

I think the matter at hand is to ask. IMO, a GM shouldn't have to flex the RAW too much to get what he's looking for.

Talic
2009-04-26, 06:41 AM
It uses RAW elements, but it is 100% homebrew. You're artificially creating a unique creature out of an amalgam of other creatures.

Just because it has RAW elements does not make it RAW. The item you have made is your own unique creation, and, while not a bad idea, may come off to players badly, if not introduced well. Surprise homebrew can do that.

EDIT:

As the OP is specifically asking for 8th level builds that fire many ranged attacks, I'd guess that he wants valid builds.

I agree with a close to the RAW DM style. I abide by every rule I enforce on my players. That way, if players die? They know it was fair. They won't feel cheated by anything.

When you go too freeform, you risk the illusion (or the pitfall) of playing favorites, or making the goals of the players secondary to the story. IMO, the players should be the story, and everything else should be in a world that largely makes sense. My homebrew is limited to theme-specific additions that players can't really get into... Such as large scale fortresses, things of that nature. Even so, I'm careful to balance it, and I show a unified theme in the homebrew. The group CAN figure it out, and then take an upper hand by doing things smart.

werefox
2009-04-26, 06:44 AM
How about... just to scare them right?

A bakers dusin of mature dragons, red ones. in mating season! Run player run!

Talic
2009-04-26, 06:47 AM
Wouldn't that mean they only need to fight the odd man out?

Ladorak
2009-04-26, 11:11 AM
Wouldn't that mean they only need to fight the odd man out?

That's really funny. :smallsmile:

I tried a build like this a while back but gave up on it because... well, the DM would HATE me, especially as we only have 4 D20s. It's been a while but I think it went something like...

Barbarian 1/Ranger 2/Fighter 2/Psychic warrior 2 (Metaphysic weapon on 50 bolts, gonna need it)/Warblade 1. I think I was aiming to get into Wildrunner, this build needs the added DEX.

Quick draw, Point blank shot, rapid shot, two weapon fighting (From ranger), some more feats. Light crossbows, one in each hand. Assuming a whirling frenzy and potion of haste full round attack, metaphysical weapon already cast:

+7/+2 -2 (Rapid shot) -2 (Two weapon Fighting) -2 (Two crossbows) -2 (whirling frenzy) +1 (Enchantment) +5 (Assume Dex 20) = +5(First Attack)/+5(Haste)/+5(Rapid)/+5(Whirling frenzy)+5(Offhand)/+0(Second attack)/+0 (Second attack offhand)


I like the javelins idea a lot tho, it's much better.

Deth Muncher
2009-04-26, 12:08 PM
Artificer + 2x Rod of Many Wands + 6x 9th level wands of Magic Missile.

EDIT: Forgot, this may be too expensive, because to do that, your main hand wands drain 3 charges each blast, and your offhand wands drain 6 per shot. On the uphand though, you're doing 24d4+24 damage total.

Flickerdart
2009-04-26, 12:12 PM
Artificer + 2x Rod of Many Wands + 6x 9th level wands of Magic Missile.
That would massacre (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MacrossMissileMassacre) the PCs. Should probably avoid this.

Deth Muncher
2009-04-26, 12:16 PM
That would massacre (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MacrossMissileMassacre) the PCs. Should probably avoid this.

Well, he could the NPC have the Bracers of Entangling Blast. It reduces the damage of the spells used. But it also Entangles the PCs, so...

EDIT: Come to think of it, you know what would REALLY massacre the PCs?

That crazy Insectile NonPsionic Thrikeen Lolthtouched thing that was mentioned earlier in the thread, which has 10 arms. Combined with my idea. So now, instead of you having two rods, you have 10.

Magic Missile Wand (9th level) = 6,750 GP x 3 per Rod x 10 Rods = 202,500GP
Rod of Many Wands = 27,000GP x 10 Rods = 270,000 GP

202,500 + 270,000 = 472,500 GP to buy. Or, approximately half of that cost to make, I THINK.

HOWEVER, that's 40d4+40 damage. That always hits.

Baalthazaq
2009-04-26, 12:40 PM
Well, he could the NPC have the Bracers of Entangling Blast. It reduces the damage of the spells used. But it also Entangles the PCs, so...

What might be less broken is wands of lesser orbs. (One of each type, and make one homebrew of force). They now require touch attacks, and they do less damage.

You can make them 1st level wands for 6D8 spread damage, to 30D8 per round.

You should be able to gauge it well enough.

Total cost: 54'000 + 6 wands.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-04-26, 01:14 PM
This long and no one has mentioned Splitting? For Shame!

MatAO Ranger 5/WF Barb 1/Monk 1. [2(BAB)+1(Rapid Shot)+1(Haste from scroll, no need to UMD{or Boots of Speed which eliminates MotAO*but adds cash<nested parenthesis FTW>*})+1(WF Barb)+1(FoB)]x2(Splitting Suriken[so the PCs don't get a lot of lewtz])=12 attacks.

Toss in a Crown of White Raven for WRT or a Belt of Battle, and you've got quite a few dice.

Deth Muncher
2009-04-26, 02:56 PM
Oh, I'm sorry, my earlier post was wrong. 10 hands + 10 RoMWs full of MMs = 120d4+120. For 472,500 GP.

You're doing average of 420 points of damage.

Have fun.

Faleldir
2009-04-26, 04:56 PM
Just a few corrections, nothing personal.

1. The Insectile template does not grant extra attacks.

2. Palm Throw uses one attack roll for both weapons.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-04-26, 05:54 PM
The problem with a Scroll of Haste is it will be caster level 5+, so unless you have Practiced Spellcaster your success is dependent on a d20 roll. With Wizard 3 and Practiced Spellcaster you could actually get a Scroll of Extended Haste at caster level 7, you don't even have to make the check to use it and it lasts fourteen rounds. I'm a huge fan of Suel Arcanamach, considering for this you recover a point of BAB and still get 2nd level spells, but it's better off in higher level builds where it can get its free Extend. For this build you could actually go Barbarian 5/ Wizard 1/ Abjurant Champion 2 and cast a +6 AC Shield as a swift action at the start of the fight, not a bad choice at all if you have room for Combat Casting.

Soulbow doesn't actually make any bows, they fire a Mind Arrow with just one hand as though it were from a composite longbow. That enables TWF and MWF, so it has all the potential attacks/round of a TWF thrower build but with a 110 ft. range increment, potentially 330 ft. with Far Shot and enchanting Distance.

Obscurejones
2009-04-26, 07:51 PM
Oh, I'm sorry, my earlier post was wrong. 10 hands + 10 RoMWs full of MMs = 120d4+120. For 472,500 GP.

You're doing average of 420 points of damage.

Have fun.

That almost sound like Enough Dakka :smalleek:

Deth Muncher
2009-04-26, 08:00 PM
That almost sound like Enough Dakka :smalleek:

You are welcome, my good sir. If that doesn't put the fear o' Gork 'n Mork into 'em, I don't know what will.

WeeFreeMen
2009-04-26, 09:20 PM
Eh, As far as Second Actions go I beleive there is a Belt in MIC that allows you to discharge charges that recharge daily. By discharging said charges you gain certain types of actions based on the number of chargers used.

As far as attacking a lot in a single round Shurikens seem to be your best bet, Id say just tag on some enchantment damage and maybe grab some Sneak attack. Then again Im not the Optimizer type :P

That's my 2cents.

ShadowFighter15
2009-04-26, 09:22 PM
You are welcome, my good sir. If that doesn't put the fear o' Gork 'n Mork into 'em, I don't know what will.

I think what he was referring to is the fact that, according to most normal-thinking orks; there is no such thing as enough dakka.

graymachine
2009-04-26, 09:56 PM
That almost sound like Enough Dakka :smalleek:

Two things:

1. You can never have enough dakka or choppa. As you approach enough dakka (or choppa) time slows; thus you approach infinity. See the Theory of Relativity.

2. As one gains dakka (or vis versa), one loses choppa. So, you must ask yourself; is it worth blindly pursuing dakka at the expense of all choppa? :smalleek:

Deth Muncher
2009-04-26, 10:20 PM
I think what he was referring to is the fact that, according to most normal-thinking orks; there is no such thing as enough dakka.

Oh, duh. Good point.


Two things:

1. You can never have enough dakka or choppa. As you approach enough dakka (or choppa) time slows; thus you approach infinity. See the Theory of Relativity.

2. As one gains dakka (or vis versa), one loses choppa. So, you must ask yourself; is it worth blindly pursuing dakka at the expense of all choppa?

1. So the more dakka or choppa you have, the more likely you are to have Time Stop as a SLA...I like it. Yes, I realize that's not what you're saying.
2. If youz good enough, you don't lose no dakka when you getz moar choppa or visey-verse. See Warlord Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka.

Myrmex
2009-04-26, 11:00 PM
This long and no one has mentioned Splitting? For Shame!

MatAO Ranger 5/WF Barb 1/Monk 1. [2(BAB)+1(Rapid Shot)+1(Haste from scroll, no need to UMD{or Boots of Speed which eliminates MotAO*but adds cash<nested parenthesis FTW>*})+1(WF Barb)+1(FoB)]x2(Splitting Suriken[so the PCs don't get a lot of lewtz])=12 attacks.

Toss in a Crown of White Raven for WRT or a Belt of Battle, and you've got quite a few dice.

Put that on an insectile anthropomorphic octopus for an additional 8 limbs, and you're good to go!

Fizban
2009-04-27, 05:22 AM
As far as I'm concerned, it's not dakka if you're not pulling a trigger.

The insectile template adds 4 extra arms, so we put that on an anthropomorhpic octopus, as suggested. We now have 6 attacking limbs, and 4 non-attacking limbs. Nothing stops us from having the non-attacking limbs pull the simple free action lever on a repeating crossbow, and we'll have the last two limbs work another one together.

Repeating light crossbow x5, splitting x2= 10 attacks, +1 more from BAB and +1 more from haste= 12 attacks of actual dakka.

Artificer 8: +6 BAB, use weapon augmentation to put the splitting on all your crossbows. If normal weapon augmentation can't do it, you can probably find a way to chain it or get the greater version before you should. Don't forget your multiweapon fighting and oversized weapon fighting, and if you can find a repeating hand crossbow (which I can never seem to find actually printed), use those instead.

You could use insectile thri-kreen instead, with the bug of bugs only losing 1 crossbow while not forcing me to hunt down where the anthropomorphic template is.

There's also a double crossbow in Dragon Magazine that can fire both bolts at once at a penalty to both attack rolls. With quick draw and a way to chain weapon augmentation, we can double our base attack rolls again to 5 bows x 2 bolts each x 2 splitting = 20 shots, +1 for BAB and +1 for haste. Dakka x22.

Edit: okay, not the magazine. I know it's somewhere though.

Edit 2: Aha (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a)! Unfortunately firing both counts as it's own full round action, so less dakka.

Talic
2009-04-27, 05:45 AM
Or youz can be one o dem Bloodstorm Blade boyz, if you wants da Dakka AND da Choppa!