PDA

View Full Version : [3.5] Help me optimize a Succubus



PrGo
2009-04-26, 06:42 AM
Howdy, everyone! I'm back again with another bunch of questions for you.

Right now, I'm making an Incubus character (male succubus for those that don't know) and this time I'm trying to make him good in combat. My last one had 54 AC, 22 SR 20+ in every save at level 16, but was completely useless in combat (except helping flank and charming enemies). Since my group is more hack 'n slash oriented, that was quite a drawback.

That is why I need help. Since the Incubus has 12 base ECL he makes a poor choice for a spellcaster. Is there a way to put his +16 to Charisma to good use in martial combat? Also, I'll most definetely take 4 levels in the Warshaper, since the class is awesome.

Of course, any advice is welcome :smallbiggrin:

Gorbash
2009-04-26, 06:50 AM
Some levels of Bard + Snowflake Wardance + Dragonfire Inspiration?

PrGo
2009-04-26, 07:00 AM
What are those curious things that you speak of? Something from the Tome of Battle?

Gorbash
2009-04-26, 07:10 AM
Feats from Dragon Magic and Frostburn.

kamikasei
2009-04-26, 07:12 AM
Snowflake Wardance is from Frostburn; Dragonfire Inspiration is from Dragon Magic. Both burn bardic music uses to give bonuses to melee - SW adds your charisma to attacks while DI replaces your Inspire Courage with +xd6 fire damage (x = your IC bonus). Combined with Warshaper for extra attacks it adds up to a lot and benefits enormously from the succubus' charisma bonus, not to mention various IC-boosting feats such as Song of the Heart.

Yuki Akuma
2009-04-26, 07:19 AM
Remember that Snowflake Wardance only works for one-handed (or light) slashing melee weapons. Also, you're not allowed to hold a shield in your off-hand while you use it.

jcsw
2009-04-26, 07:22 AM
Remember that Snowflake Wardance only works for one-handed (or light) slashing melee weapons. Also, you're not allowed to hold a shield in your off-hand while you use it.

Remember, however, that you can use it with *two* one handed/light slashing melee weapons.

kamikasei
2009-04-26, 07:52 AM
Remember, however, that you can use it with *two* one handed/light slashing melee weapons.

Or n claws?

PrGo
2009-04-26, 08:21 AM
Okay, I'll do that Bard + Snowflake Wardance thingy, since it synergises well with claws.
The Dragonfire Inspiration requires more levels of bard to be useful, and I don't have spare levels with this guy.

I was thinking of taking 2 levels of Paladin of Slaughter variant class from UA. Second level gives me Charisma to saving throws, which makes them hit the roof.
So atm that is 2 levels of Paladin, 4 Warshaper and X levels of Bard, which makes the ECL 19+ :smalltongue:

I'll stick to that for now, please, do not hesitate to add some insight if you think of a better build.

Gorbash
2009-04-26, 08:30 AM
You need 3 levels of Bard to meet the prerequsites.

By the way, this only boosts your attack rolls. You still need to find a way to do damage that ECL 19 character should do, and I'm not really sure whether you can pull that one off.

PrGo
2009-04-26, 08:33 AM
Oh.. you're right.

New plan! Is there a way to get a few Save or Die abilities by ECL 20? :smalltongue:

Ashdate
2009-04-26, 08:55 AM
Why don't you talk to your GM about lowering the Racial hit dice and level adjustment of a succubi?

I mean, as it stands you're starting with six hit dice and a +6 level adjustment before classes are even added (a huge red pen circled mistake from the point of "optimizing"). Sure you could search every book and Dragon Magazine to make the most "broken" character you can make, but you'll still never be as close as someone who went with a base, LA 0 no hit dice class, potentially barring some cheese.

So ask your DM if, for the sake of not being sucky in combat, you can lose some of your racial hit dice and ability score bonuses (and maybe even some of your abilities) in order to make you a "lower level" incubus. That, to me, seems like the path of least resistance.

- Eddie

PrGo
2009-04-26, 09:10 AM
Eh... Never thought of something like that. I guess I was way too strict with the rules to even consider such a thing. Maybe I might work it out with the DM to reduce the Charm Monster to Charm Person, and remove Energy Drain completely or something like that.

Thanks for the advice all :smallbiggrin:

Chronos
2009-04-26, 12:36 PM
Another option would be to use a different race. The Gloura (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e), for instance, has stat boosts at least in shouting distance of the succubus, plus gets Cha to AC and saves, plus gets spellcasting, and has an ECL of only 9, only 2 of which is LA.

BenTheJester
2009-04-30, 12:42 PM
I have been thinking about this for a while, and I have a DM who will let me do it.

I will be using the Succubus class progression from Savage Species(with a few exceptions like the SLA who are different from 3.0).

I will be Lawful Evil, an alignment change I have explained thoroughly in her background.

I will be using a modified of Vow of Poverty, refluffed Vow of Decadence, with which I spend all my money on useless luxuries(got the idea from the VoP thread) and getting Vile feats instead of Exalted feats.

I'm planning on going Succubus 12/Monk 2/Hexblade 3/Paladin of Tyranny 3.

That would put my insanely high charisma to good use.
Monk gets me Evasion(and improved grapple)
Hexblade gets me Mettle and Arcane Resistance
Paladin of Tyranny gets me Divine Grace and Aura of Despair

So I would get(amongst other things):
- Incredible AC from VoP and Succubus
- 12/10/12 saves
- +3 to all saving throws from VoP
- Evasion(full save on "reflex half" on a successful save)
- Mettle(full save on "will/fort half" on a successful save)
- Divine Grace(+cha to saves)
- Arcane Resistance(+cha to resist spells/SLA)
- Spell Resistance
- Immunity to lightning/poison
- Resistance to Cold/Acid/Fire 10
- DR 10/evil or cold iron

Try and hit me now.

Bluebeard
2009-04-30, 02:06 PM
As a DM, I like Mindspy on my Succubi. Seems to fit in well.
But as a DM, I can just overlevel things when they turn out weak.

As a player, I'd probably use the Incubus in a support role.
I'd try to work 1 level of Marshal and 1 level of Cleric (for Domain feats) between levels of White Raven-focused Warblade (using Diamond Mind maneuvers to help with weak saves).

It doesn't matter what you can do individually if you get your party more actions.

I don't like Snowflake Wardance at all.
The sourcebook isn't common, the daily uses are very restrictive, the weapon requirements are terrible. Using it to generate damage is a real bitch.
And Inspire Courage is rough with an evil alignment, a wasted feat for dragonblood and few Bard levels.

Divine Crusader might help make up for late spell advancement.
If you take a domain like Spell, anyway.

Chronos
2009-04-30, 10:01 PM
Using it to generate damage is a real bitch.Well that's fine, that's what he's building, isn't it?:smallwink:

And which version of Mindspy do you mean? There are two classes by that name.

Bluebeard
2009-04-30, 10:20 PM
And which version of Mindspy do you mean? There are two classes by that name.

I meant the one from Complete Warrior.
It's fun for me as a DM, but I can't pretend it's not terrible as a player.

BenTheJester
2009-05-06, 08:42 PM
Other good builds:
Fiend of Possession 6/Paladin of Slaughter 2
Fiend of Possession 6/Marshal 1/Cleric 1
(Cleric for Divine feats, since you should get an incredible amount of rebuking)


Good feats to take:
-Improved Energy Drain(+1 to skill/save/attack/ability check every time you drain)
-Spell Drain(steal spell lost from level drained)
-Life Drain(get temp HP = to cha for every level you drain)
-Ability Focus(+2 DC to an ability(Energy Drain))

-Brand of the 9 hells [requires you to do a useful act to an archdevil, Lawful Evil]
-Mark of Nessus(enemy must make a cha based Will save before targetting you) [Requires Brand of the 9 hells]



Using a Stunning Surge weapon is a good idea too(cha based Fort save), usable 1+cha times/day

Smeggedoff
2009-05-18, 06:01 PM
Been looking at this myself lately, unfortunately for Gestalt so my build won't help much apart from a nice little item from the DMG2 known as "Slippers of Battledancing".
Among other things they add your charisma bonus to attack and damage rolls if you move 10 feet or more in the round you attack. they're a tad pricy at 33750 but seem solid.
At the cheaper end from the same book is a weapon enchant called "Sudden Stunning" which allows you, upon a successful melee strike to activate the enchant as a swift action causing the foe to make a reflex save (DC10 +1/2 level + your cha mod) or be stunned for 1d4+1 rounds. useable a number of times a day equal to your charisma modifier. this little beauty comes at the much more reasonable price of 2000 gold.

hope this helps

Oslecamo
2009-05-18, 06:15 PM
A-Fiend of possession from Fiend Folio. 4 levels and you'll be able to enter objects up to gargantuan and then animate them. For starters. Fun fun fun!

B-Pick 4 paladin levels, then pick up divine wrath for charisma to damage in return for turn undead atempts.